View Full Version : Brother in Law is SF. Having a problem
So my future Brother in Law is in the Army. He joined out of high school in 2000. He was in Special Forces and served in Iraq and Afghanistan for a number of years. At some point over the past few years he has changed units and now is involved in communications in some way.
When he was home a few weeks ago he gave me a hat from current his unit. When he gave it to me just says "Here you go" and explained what the symbolism of the insignia meant. I usually wear some type of Larue or BCM hat or something similar in looks to it. He knows I'm a gun guy and we've shot together numerous times. My fiance told me he's never done anything like that before with any guy that she was dating.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w135/clevelandairsoft/2012-02-09_16-10-02_788.jpg
I feel honored that he would give me something so personal but I'm torn on what to do with it. My fiance wants me to wear it. She's saying he wouldn't give it to you if he didn't want you to have it. My question was what to say if someone recognizes it or makes a remark like thanks for your service. What am I gonna say? "Um actually my brother in law served and it's HIS hat..."
I just feel that it is disrespectful to my brother in law to just put it in a box or something but I also feel like it's a borderline stolen valor thing. Am I over thinking this? What should I do with it?
To me, gift or no gift, I wouldnt be wearing that hat in public. That hat carries 18 tons of weight that is earned.
Personally I'd stick it in a nice spot on a shelf in my gun room. To each his own.
I would hang it on my biggest set of deer antlers out of respect for the man.
I would not hide it in a box or wear it any where, not even in my house alone, for the reason Sadmin pointed out.
It's a simple thing.
Somebody asks "Are you really special forces?"
You answer, no but my BIL is and he gave it to me and I think it's cool.
Just as he earned the "right" to wear it, he earned the "right" to give it to you.
Now if you answer "Yes, I was agent orange" or something along those lines, THEN you have done something wrong. It's not like you can't buy green berets and SF flashes all over the internet anyway.
When I was a kid, one of my Dads friends gave me an actual green beret of his. He was in VN but I don't think he became SF until after the war. It was of course not the only one he had, but he didn't have any kids and seemed happy to give it to a 12 year old who appreciated what it was.
eternal24k
02-09-12, 17:06
To me, gift or no gift, I wouldnt be wearing that hat in public. That hat carries 18 tons of weight that is earned.
agreed
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-09-12, 17:13
Its just a hat it isnt a tab. He gave it to you with the idea you would wear it. If anyone ask just holler out with pride that your bother in law serves in 7th group and he gave it to you. There is nothing wrong with that at all. 99% of he people you are going to see are not going to even know what it means and the other 1% arnt going to care only a dick would make an issue out of the fact that you had on a hat that supports a military unit your family is a part of.
DeltaSierra
02-09-12, 17:18
Your BIL gave the hat to you. Obviously, as a currently serving SF member, if he felt it would be inappropriate for you to wear the hat, why on earth would he have given it to you?
Wear the hat. I would. If asked about the hat, simply respond that your BIL, a currently serving SF member, gave it to you. End of story.
Evil Colt 6920
02-09-12, 17:18
It's a simple thing.
Somebody asks "Are you really special forces?"
You answer, no but my BIL is and he gave it to me and I think it's cool.
Just as he earned the "right" to wear it, he earned the "right" to give it to you.
Now if you answer "Yes, I was agent orange" or something along those lines, THEN you have done something wrong. It's not like you can't buy green berets and SF flashes all over the internet anyway.
When I was a kid, one of my Dads friends gave me an actual green beret of his. He was in VN but I don't think he became SF until after the war. It was of course not the only one he had, but he didn't have any kids and seemed happy to give it to a 12 year old who appreciated what it was.
I have to agree with Steyr on this. If you have earned enough respect of a military family member or friend for them to give you something like this, I think you should be able wear it. Of course you must tell the truth about it when asked or else you deserve a swift kick in the nuts.
you're showing the respect by wearing it. I guarantee that if your BIL thought you were a douche he would never have give it to you. Wear it proudly he put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into earning his place among a very elite group!
Voodoo_Man
02-09-12, 17:34
Wear it.
You are not SF and have no issue saying so there is no "problem."
If someone says anything, like SteyrAUG stated, just tell them.
We wear the colors of those who we respect. Some wear the flag, some wear police logos, others military logos.
I feel I should begin by saying that I am not now, nor have I ever served in the military. I see why people say they wouldn't wear it as you wouldn't want to appear disrespectful. However, if a serving family member gave me that hat then I think I would wear it to show my support for the military in general and for that family member specifically. I would never try to take any credit as a serviceman if I was asked about it.
Belmont31R
02-09-12, 18:33
I wouldn't wear it out in public just because of potential awkward moments. Maybe display it somewhere nice and wear it at family gatherings where people will understand what the deal is.
He gave it to you out of friendship, to wear. It's not a shrine. Wear it, enjoy it, and give credit to the man when it comes up in conversation.
Find a nice place to hang it or put it on display.
Be aware any logo-ism will polarize people. And plenty of persons have chips on their shoulders. In and out of uniform.
99% of the males I see with SEAL Team logo crap are poseurs. Mom's, Dad's, wives, GF's, kids excepted.. but I rarely see that.
We have no way of knowing where, when, why you would wear it, or the people you would interact with. If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't.
I know how you feel. I have a friend and neighbor who is a WW II 101st vet who gave me screaming eagle stickers for my truck. I just cant put them on because I didn't serve and earn that right. He keeps asking me to put them on, and doesn't understand why I wont.
It's a mixed bag. The story is simple. Your Brother in Law is in the Special Forces and he gave you the hat to wear. The reality is you will encounter people who still will give you grief about it if you were not a member of that organization. It's the same as anything. For some people, it's a really big issue. For others it's not. It all depends on the individual.
I've seen it work both ways. When I attended a LAV class, one of the attendees was wearing a SEAL hat that he said had been given to him by a SEAL. He was harassed by some of the guys in the class but most people left him alone. The next day he was wearing a different hat. The guy wasn't the most popular guy in class for other reasons but it can play out like that.
I've also known a lot of people who hand out pins, patches, caps, shirts, etc. from their unit, organization, or branch of service with the full expectation that the recipient will wear it. They're very proud of their group. Their attitude is "I gave it to you to wear. Who cares what some moron thinks?" To them, it's just a hat, shirt, or whatever and they should be able to give them to family and friends to wear.
Personally speaking, if you're straight on it and say it's a gift from someone who earned it (friend or family member) that should end the conversation. If you're running around pretending to be whatever, that's when you're going to have real problems and you deserve those.
i wouldn't wear it because i wouldn't want to lose it.
I would not wear it.
I remember a long, long time ago when I showed up as a freshman in college and was wearing an 82nd ABN t-shirt that I bought at FT. Bragg on my drive up to NY.
It was a touristy type T-shirt, and I certainly never claimed to have been in the 82nd Abn.
I met some ROTC cadets informally before the semester started and was told in no uncertain terms that it was inappropriate to wear things that referenced units or things like an Airborn belt buckle if you were not ABN qualified. I am not talking about doing so in uniform or classes. I was told not at all.
Perhaps this applied to me specifically because I was affiliated with ROTC, but my impression is that if you wear something associated with any type of elite unit, in a sense you are conveying the unsppoken impression that you are somehow associated with said unit, even if that is not your intention.
It's a simple thing.
Somebody asks "Are you really special forces?"
You answer, no but my BIL is and he gave it to me and I think it's cool.
Just as he earned the "right" to wear it, he earned the "right" to give it to you.
Now if you answer "Yes, I was agent orange" or something along those lines, THEN you have done something wrong. It's not like you can't buy green berets and SF flashes all over the internet anyway.
When I was a kid, one of my Dads friends gave me an actual green beret of his. He was in VN but I don't think he became SF until after the war. It was of course not the only one he had, but he didn't have any kids and seemed happy to give it to a 12 year old who appreciated what it was.
CarlosDJackal
02-10-12, 10:42
I wear a "Night Stalker" hat all the time. Even though I'm an Army Aviator, I was never with the 160th SOAR. I obtained the hat through a fundraiser for the survivors of the 160th SOAR.
I wear it proudly and when someone asks me if I served with the "Night Stalkers" I politely tell them that I was never good enough to serve with them. I explain that I received the had from them because of my contributions to their Survivors' Fund.
Wearing someone else's Unit Insignia or patch is only a disgrace if:
(a) You are doing so to make people think you served with that unit for the CDI factor.
(b) You stole the item or purchased it from some scumbag who was never authorized to manufacture the tiem.
AND (c) You wear it in such a manner that it disrespects the unit (regardless of how you obtained it).
IMHO, you received the hat from a brother-by-law who thought enough about you to give it to you. I see no problem in your wearing said item as long as it is done with respect and at the appropriate occasions.
dookie1481
02-10-12, 12:27
My dad does a lot of work with a chapter of the Special Forces Association, giving presentations and helping with VA issues, and they have given him hats and stickers and such, so I am assuming they are meant to be worn.
I, however, would feel VERY uncomfortable wearing them.
I would not wear it.
I remember a long, long time ago when I showed up as a freshman in college and was wearing an 82nd ABN t-shirt that I bought at FT. Bragg on my drive up to NY.
It was a touristy type T-shirt, and I certainly never claimed to have been in the 82nd Abn.
I met some ROTC cadets informally before the semester started and was told in no uncertain terms that it was inappropriate to wear things that referenced units or things like an Airborn belt buckle if you were not ABN qualified. I am not talking about doing so in uniform or classes. I was told not at all.
Perhaps this applied to me specifically because I was affiliated with ROTC, but my impression is that if you wear something associated with any type of elite unit, in a sense you are conveying the unsppoken impression that you are somehow associated with said unit, even if that is not your intention.
I've run into that from time to time.
I have a bunch of USMC and Ranger shirts. I was never a Marine, I was never a Ranger. I have them because I think a yellow globe and anchor on a black t shirt looks cool and along with the Ranger t shirts I got them cheap as a closeout with one of my distributors.
Every now and again I've had someone tell me if I'm not a Marine I shouldn't wear it, but most accept it when I tell them I'm just a fan of the Marines and Rangers. Of course the reality is they were $2 each and I bought a dozen.
It's a simple thing.
Somebody asks "Are you really special forces?"
You answer, no but my BIL is and he gave it to me and I think it's cool.
Just as he earned the "right" to wear it, he earned the "right" to give it to you.
Now if you answer "Yes, I was agent orange" or something along those lines, THEN you have done something wrong. It's not like you can't buy green berets and SF flashes all over the internet anyway.
When I was a kid, one of my Dads friends gave me an actual green beret of his. He was in VN but I don't think he became SF until after the war. It was of course not the only one he had, but he didn't have any kids and seemed happy to give it to a 12 year old who appreciated what it was.
Ditto
If it looks good on your ugly mug then wear it, if not then don't.
He gave you a hat. People wear hats. That's why they exist. (???)
Maybe you should just ask him; that seems like the easiest solution.
That said, wearing it is probably not worth it because you're going to have to answer a lot of dumb questions. But if you want to show your pride and are prepared to deal with such questions in an intelligent way and still keep the high road, then wear it.
If you're wearing a Yankees ball cap and telling folks that the best day of your life is when the Brooklyn Bombers called you up to The Show from AAA ball, when in fact your greatest sports achievement is being the MVP of the Spacely Sprockets softball team and getting Yankee World Series tickets for a steal from a scalper in 2000, then you shouldn't be wearing it and should probably be tied to a post and scourged with a nettle bush.
If you're wearing a Yankee hat because your favorite Yankee gave you his hat, and the story you tell is of getting a personal gift from your favorite ball player, and you WANT to wear it....own the facts behind it and rock out. Or, put it in a glass case on your mantlepiece....
As already stated by others in various forms, it's never about the thing...it's how you conduct yourself that counts.
I've provided services to organizations and entities to which I've never belonged, and received various tokens from them in gratitude for successfully supporting them; never been shy about the facts behind the receipt of such. I have, however, had folks try to brig-lawyer me over how I don't "rate" wearing, say, a polo shirt. Really? :rolleyes:
These horsethieves are universally told to engage in a physiologically improbable sex act, with the understanding that I'm willing to have a hands-on discussion over it if it's really THAT important to them; let God or the Alien Space Bats bear witness to and judge the validity of which snazzy threads a grown-ass man chooses to wear on any given day. Somebody with enough juice to make the call as to whether or not such an item should or should not be gifted....wanted me to have it and made that call. Period. Don't like it? Too bad, so sad. They can call their clergyman or their Psychic Friend and let their butthurt-ed-ness flow.
If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't.
I can't say it any better.
It's a hat, wear it. 99.99% of people don't pay attention to shit around them in the first place. Those who see it probably think it's a hat for a slot machine or archery. The tiny percentage of people who see it, know what it represents and are in fact a member of SF probably give 2 shits less unless you live close to a SF unit or .Mil base where it might be seen a little differently.
Although obviously not as high speed as SF if I saw someone sporting a CVN-72 hat it'd garner a big smile and a "Hey, I used to be on that boat too!" and if their response was my buddy Johnny gave it to me blah,blah,blah... I wouldn't think anything less of the person or them wearing it. I know it's different but it's the easiest comparison I could think of.
Wear it with pride, be honest and you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
CarlosDJackal
02-10-12, 23:57
Added: If an Elite unit never wanted non-members of their units to wear their hats, t-shirts or lapel pins; they would never allow their members to give them away.
OP, it sounds like you'd wear the hat with respect, and he gifted it to you thus I doubt there would be a problem. In the end, it is just a hat.
And as already stated, the real poseurs always carry themselves in a certain manner and they usually get dealt with accordingly.
On a side note, I could never understand why someone would be a poseur about being in the military. If someone thinks its that ****ing awesome, why didn't they sign up?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-11-12, 05:22
Having served in the military, I dont like wearing anything military related out in town, I get enough of it at work. I dont have any problem with someone wearing moto gear because they support that unit, have a child/brother/father etc in that unit. I dont like posers, but other than that do what you want.
You arent putting an SF tab on your shoulder, you are wearing a freaking hat. People get too caught up in this shit sometimes. If some goober yells at you for wearing it, tell him to STFU.
People get too caught up in this shit sometimes.
Pretty much where I am at.
Pumpkinheaver
02-11-12, 20:32
He gave it to you out of friendship, to wear. It's not a shrine. Wear it, enjoy it, and give credit to the man when it comes up in conversation.
I agree!!!
As already stated by others in various forms, it's never about the thing...it's how you conduct yourself that counts.
THIS!
Be honest if people ask you and then tell em to piss off if they have a problem. It's not like you are someone claiming to be something they are not. You are waring it to honor your BIL.
kaltesherz
02-12-12, 00:57
It's actually a really good question and I'm glad you brought it up, as it's already shown what a mixed bag it can be.
I frequently see people wearing shirts or hats for military units or branches- and sometimes if it's something interesting or I'm just trying to make conversation I'll ask them about it. A lot of the time, TOO MUCH of the time, they have no affiliation with whatever unit or branch they're wearing. And I personally find this irritating. Granted, most have never served so I remind myself that before I joined up I had a Foreign Legion shirt that I wore because it looked badass and wasn't the wiser. But now I never do as I've never served with that unit nor has anyone from that unit given it to me. That's not a small caveat, it's a big one. If someone you personally know gives you their unit shirt, then by all means wear it. Wear it and when people ask about it tell them with pride about your brother-in-law and what a badass he is. And all the deployments he's been on. Both in GWOT and in S. America. The sacrifices he's made. 95% of the country is completely numb to the wars going on and the effect it has on those that fight it, who knows- you might just remind someone of that.
I have hats and shirts that were personally given to me by members of various military units (SF, EOD, etc..) On occasion I will wear them and when someone asks I tell them that I was working with or supported them in some capacity and that the item in question was given to me as a reminder of keepsake.
I don't have anything real generic like USMC shirts, or SEAL Trident shirts , or even Ranger shirt. If I was given one I would more than likely not wear them.
I just feel that it is disrespectful to my brother in law to just put it in a box or something but I also feel like it's a borderline stolen valor thing. Am I over thinking this? What should I do with it?
I think this one comes under how you feel about it. He didn't give it to you expecting you to never wear it I assume, so it appears as far as he's concerned, you are GTG on the hat. If anyone ever asks, a simple "No I'm not, was a gift from my brother in law" and you're good with most people.
If wearing it makes you feel uncomfortable, which also perfectly legit, put it on a nice shelf in your office or something. I put most of what I have been given on a shelf, etc.
I'm often given hats, shirts, etc from mil or LEO buddies, and or , after a seminar done for a group, and I will occasionally wear something given to me, but I don't wear it often as I'm always aware of the potential for "wanna be" status, and that's something to be avoided for sure.
He wouldn't have given you the hat if he thought you were a DB, so it seems the right answer is really in your corner on comfort level.
Not being mil/SF, my perspective on that mat be different then those who are, and it's possible some may feel you didn't earn it, so you shouldn't wear it, and it's hard to blame them for that position.
I have hats and shirts that were personally given to me by members of various military units (SF, EOD, etc..) On occasion I will wear them and when someone asks I tell them that I was working with or supported them in some capacity and that the item in question was given to me as a reminder of keepsake.
That's how I approach it and handle it also. So far so good. Nose still attached to face. :cool:
RogerinTPA
02-14-12, 10:33
Jesus H Christ, just wear the thing and conduct yourself accordingly. If you try to be a poser, you deserve a beat down.
QuietShootr
02-14-12, 10:48
If you're wearing a Yankees ball cap and telling folks that the best day of your life is when the Brooklyn Bombers called you up to The Show from AAA ball, when in fact your greatest sports achievement is being the MVP of the Spacely Sprockets softball team and getting Yankee World Series tickets for a steal from a scalper in 2000, then you shouldn't be wearing it and should probably be tied to a post and scourged with a nettle bush.
If you're wearing a Yankee hat because your favorite Yankee gave you his hat, and the story you tell is of getting a personal gift from your favorite ball player, and you WANT to wear it....own the facts behind it and rock out. Or, put it in a glass case on your mantlepiece....
As already stated by others in various forms, it's never about the thing...it's how you conduct yourself that counts.
I've provided services to organizations and entities to which I've never belonged, and received various tokens from them in gratitude for successfully supporting them; never been shy about the facts behind the receipt of such. I have, however, had folks try to brig-lawyer me over how I don't "rate" wearing, say, a polo shirt. Really? :rolleyes:
These horsethieves are universally told to engage in a physiologically improbable sex act, with the understanding that I'm willing to have a hands-on discussion over it if it's really THAT important to them; let God or the Alien Space Bats bear witness to and judge the validity of which snazzy threads a grown-ass man chooses to wear on any given day. Somebody with enough juice to make the call as to whether or not such an item should or should not be gifted....wanted me to have it and made that call. Period. Don't like it? Too bad, so sad. They can call their clergyman or their Psychic Friend and let their butthurt-ed-ness flow.
Well said. I have a couple of items of clothing provided in similar situations, and I feel the same way. Only got shit about it once, from a member of the unit whose hat I was wearing at the time, and when I provided the name of the person who gave it to me and proffered my cell phone to call him the questioner apologized immediately.
People get so ****ing wrapped up in miniscule shit. No, don't be running around sporting a green beret or a Budweiser if you didn't earn one, and own up to who you are if someone questions you, and you'll be fine. **** the rest and save six for pallbearers.
I wouldn't wear it even if I had earned it. Just like I don't wear cop stuff off duty. It has already been said but if you don't feel right about it follow your instincts. You could also ask your ladies brother. I think displaying it at home is a good choice.
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