View Full Version : Thoughts on FN HF Barrels Available from 6-7 Distributors
saddlerocker
02-10-12, 14:59
Well it seems FN is selling their HF barrels to more and more dealers.
While the prices vary greatly
Noveske ($450 with pinned low pro gas block @ rainier)
Centurion ($325 for stripped barrel)
PSA ($220 for stripped barrel)
Spikes Tactical ($250 for stripped barrel)
Surplus Arms and Ammo ($240 stripped barrel)
PK Firearms (announced they will be getting in various lengths, no price yet.)
BCM is rumored to be FN correct? ($300 stripped barrel)
Most of these barrels seem to have the same "optimum profile" between lightweight and government. Although some are standard lightweight or Gov. profile
Im curious what peoples opinion here are about them.
Do you think they are different for each place?
Im not hammer forging expert, but i find it hard to believe that a different mandrel is used to make them all.
All made from the same "machine gun steel" (except BCM who hasnt said they are from FN)
I can believe however that acceptable tolerances are different.
Maybe Noveske and Centurion have stricter QC, or maybe they were just the first to have these barrels and charged a premium, now others are getting them and are selling them for lower profit margins.
Things like the gas port size and muzzle crown could be different.
So if you were in the market for the BARREL ONLY, would you buy from any of these places selling FN barrels, or would you pay the premium to get them from Noveske or Centurion?
I thought BCM barrels were from DD.
Where are you getting the information that above mentioned barrels are hammer forged from fn?
I'm using one of the Spike's Tactical CHF barrels in my recent build. The barrel itself seems to be a quality piece. It's more accurate than I am (around 1.5 MOA groups @ 100 yards with M193 and M855 using a scope on the upper). I'm not concerned with shooting extremely tight groups with the rifle, but it's nice to know it will.
.750" at the gas block seat
.650" between the gas block and muzzle
.680"-.655" Taper from the chamber to gas block
gas port measured at .078"
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6801525501_60d5529670_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6801516303_4e659a46bc_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7154/6801518349_c793893554_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7164/6801519717_3445745cc6_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6801521347_95a7ea937c_b.jpg
Feed ramp alignment installed in a BCM Upper
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6809066489_bcd5e49b0a_b.jpg
saddlerocker
02-10-12, 18:04
Where are you getting the information that above mentioned barrels are hammer forged from fn?
All but BCM state that they are
I don't know about the optimum profile as I haven't measured any of them. I fo know that the 2 Centurions are right in the middle between the pencil and government weight wise. To me it is the best overall. Are the others the same diamater as the Centurions as well?
saddlerocker
02-10-12, 18:17
I don't know about the optimum profile as I haven't measured any of them. I fo know that the 2 Centurions are right in the middle between the pencil and government weight wise. To me it is the best overall. Are the others the same diamater as the Centurions as well?
Certainly FN can contour a barrel of the exact same specs to different profiles for the customer, so yes there are other profiles available for certain distributors listed above.
But Centurion, Spikes, and Some of PSA's, have that "optimum" profile.
I dont know about Noveske's profiles, but they look like the "optimum"
eternal24k
02-10-12, 18:44
All but BCM state that they are
I have heard rumors of DD and FN. I honestly buy into the DD for the fact that BCM does not list the double chrome lining or "machine gun steel"
Have to admit I'm intrigued (I own 3 Centurion Arms barrels and 1 Noveske).
I'd love to hear what some of the more experienced industry folk have to add but it seems most tread lightly in this regard (or maybe they just don't have anything to add?).
I have heard rumors of DD and FN. I honestly buy into the DD for the fact that BCM does not list the double chrome lining or "machine gun steel"
Thats what I assumed but I've seen stickman and many others say BCM gets their CHF barrels from the same place Noveske and Centurion Arms get theirs from.
There's a huge thread on this very topic on TOS. It's pretty interesting, the guy has a bunch of barrels, some from centurion, some from noveske, and some from psa. They're pretty much identical in all external measurements.
There's a huge thread on this very topic on TOS. It's pretty interesting, the guy has a bunch of barrels, some from centurion, some from noveske, and some from psa. They're pretty much identical in all external measurements.
IIRC,
In that thread the barrel he got from PSA shows the faint remains of a centurion logo.
Since when are Noveske barrels FN?
Last I heard they were made at the pacnor plant.
If you read the entire thread on TOS, it was also revealed that FN mistakenly stamped the Centurion logo on a batch of those barrels. The mistake was caught and corrected.
Read SMGLee's post almost all the way down the page: (3rd from last post)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/559831_FN_manufactured_CHF_barrel_blanks_INTERESTING_UPDATE_PIC___CODE_BROKEN__YOU_DECIDE.html&page=11
I am glad you had a chance to speak to Monty, he is definitely a class act. As far as the pricing, like I have posted previously, PSA undercut their price and another reason is FN for not having a proper tier pricing to better fit the market.
I found out the barrel shop at FN made a mistake a roll marked a few PSA barrels with Centurion logo, so as far as I know, PSA does not have Centurion spec'ed barrel.
Since when are Noveske barrels FN?
Last I heard they were made at the pacnor plant.
Their SS barrels are made at PacNor.
Their SS barrels are made at PacNor.
So the CL barrels are FN? I feel like that would be less of a secret unless I haven't been paying attention.
buckshot1220
02-10-12, 20:20
Even if all the rifled tubes are from FN, does that mean that the gas port, muzzle crown, FSB and barrel extension are done by them as well? I think that this is important considering how anal some can be with feed ramp lineup, gas port size and FSB canting(not to say it isn't for good reason).
Tagged for interest.
If you read the entire thread on TOS, it was also revealed that FN mistakenly stamped the Centurion logo on a batch of those barrels. The mistake was caught and corrected.
Can you direct me to a page/post # where this was verified? All I saw was a poorly machined off Centurion logo, which could lead to several different conclusions. The author of that thread on TOS has a very clear agenda. I didn't see where FN confirmed that "mistake", just more wild speculation from the OP.
So the CL barrels are FN? I feel like that would be less of a secret unless I haven't been paying attention.
I believe FN holds the TDP for MG249 barrel steel/double thick chrome lining and are the only company that does it.
Can you direct me to a page/post # where this was verified? All I saw was a poorly machined off Centurion logo, which could lead to several different conclusions. The author of that thread on TOS has a very clear agenda. I didn't see where FN confirmed that "mistake", just more wild speculation from the OP.
I had edited my post from above, but here it is again.
Read SMGLee's post almost all the way down the page: (3rd to last post)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/559831_FN_manufactured_CHF_barrel_blanks_INTERESTING_UPDATE_PIC___CODE_BROKEN__YOU_DECIDE.html&page=11
I am glad you had a chance to speak to Monty, he is definitely a class act. As far as the pricing, like I have posted previously, PSA undercut their price and another reason is FN for not having a proper tier pricing to better fit the market.
I found out the barrel shop at FN made a mistake a roll marked a few PSA barrels with Centurion logo, so as far as I know, PSA does not have Centurion spec'ed barrel.
I am assuming SMGLee is well connected in the industry to be able to retrieve that info. He is a mod here, so I'm not doubting his credibility.
It's scary, I actually read that whole thread....a lot of it was BS, but there were a few very good bits of info, especially if you read the stuff that SMGLee posted.
So that jackass on TOS is going to shoot a few individual barrels for groups, evaluate the size of said groups, and then try to make a determination on if there's a difference in quality between the various FN supplied barrels? And people are thanking him for this "service?" I want a lobotomy.
God help us if his flinching / trigger yanking session by chance turns in significantly smaller groups with a certain barrel. It'll be at least 12 months of "well PSA barrels are more accurate than Centurion barrels duh everybody knows that." Jesus.
I read that thread over there, I think it's an interesting thought to ponder, but I don't think they're gonna definitively answer any questions.
The guy is enthusiastic, but I don't think he has the equipment, knoweledge, skill or experience to evaluate the quality of the barrels.
It sounds like he's gonna toss a few reloads downrange and see which one is the most accurate. We'll see what happens. I'm betting he's gonna turn out to be a 2-3.5 MOA shooter and is gonna say all the barrels are the same, and accuse Noveske and Centurion of ripping people off...
So that jackass on TOS is going to shoot a few individual barrels for groups, evaluate the size of said groups, and then try to make a determination on if there's a difference in quality between the various FN supplied barrels? And people are thanking him for this "service?" I want a lobotomy.
God help us if his flinching / trigger yanking session by chance turns in significantly smaller groups with a certain barrel. It'll be at least 12 months of "well PSA barrels are more accurate than Centurion barrels duh everybody knows that." Jesus.
No doubt that this is completely retarded, but that's the norm for that site.
They are going to clean the barrel in between each type of ammo shot. Then shoot "fouling shots" to clean up any solvent. :haha:
The OP, evlblkwpnz, actually has videos up on youtube. I accidentally stumbled onto one a few days ago. :suicide:
http://www.youtube.com/user/evlblkwpnz?ob=0
It's scary, I actually read that whole thread....a lot of it was BS, but there were a few very good bits of info, especially if you read the stuff that SMGLee posted.
Thanks. I wasn't trying to discredit you, but as you stated, that thread is long and full of BS. I also read the entire thing, but the OP's crusade-like attitude makes it hard to digest. He is clearyly pissed because he "knows" he spent more for the same thing.
Thanks. I wasn't trying to discredit you, but as you stated, that thread is long and full of BS. I also read the entire thing, but the OP's crusade-like attitude makes it hard to digest. He is clearyly pissed because he "knows" he spent more for the same thing.
Absolutely, and I didn't take it as such, so don't worry about it. I realized after I posted it, that someone was going to ask me to find it. I was already searching for it as you typed up your post. It's a very tiny post in a thread full of crap and I'm glad it only took me a couple minutes to find it.
The whole entire thread is full of the OP's emotionally charged remarks. Then you see that he slowly has to retract every single BS remark he made. He says he will never buy Centurion again and goes berserk over the chopped barrel, then changes his mind after talking to Monty. G'Damn buffoon.
I believe FN holds the TDP for MG249 barrel steel/double thick chrome lining and are the only company that does it.
I would hope FN holds the TDP for the weapon they invented.:smile:
It really bothers me that people don't realize their dumbass comments can affect people's livelihoods. Careless words, especially on the internet, can take money out of good people's pockets for no reason.
I would hope FN holds the TDP for the weapon they invented.:smile:
:lol:
I am an amateur! I retain many facts while I'm reading, but some of those things just slip past me.
I'm relatively new and unschooled when it comes to firearms history.
Robb Jensen
02-10-12, 21:43
From what I know yes FN sells hammer forged .224" and .308" barrel blanks to a lot of barrel/rifle manufacturers. These are chrome lined 11595-E barrel steel with chroming generally thicker than chrome lined barrels made by other manufacturers. In my experience most barrels made from these FN blanks exhibit accuracy which is only rivaled by some stainless match grade barrels.
I was under the impression Centurion made their own barrels using the FN formula utilized in M240 barrels. They have their own contour and such, too, which would imply something, right?
I guess I could always ask Monty, but I don't wanna bug him. :ph34r:
outrider627
02-10-12, 22:45
I was under the impression Centurion made their own barrels using the FN formula utilized in M240 barrels. They have their own contour and such, too, which would imply something, right?
I guess I could always ask Monty, but I don't wanna bug him. :ph34r:
Nope. CA provided their specs to FN, and FN makes the barrels. Just like all these other companies selling FN barrels. In fact, someone on arfcom posted a link to FN's website where they clearly show a CA marked barrel as an example of their work.
Personally, I don't see the PSA or Spikes barrel shooting "better" than the Noveske or Centurion barrels. If anything they will all shoot about the same.
I believe when the smoke clears it will be obvious that all these barrels are much more alike then they are different.
These barrels are all made by the same company on the same machines from the same blanks, have the same chamber, chrome lining, rifling twist and barrel extension specs. It also appears that the profiles are identical on some of the models. All these barrels also appear to be HPT and MPI.
The only real unknowns are are the gas port sizes, how the crown was finished and whether or not all of these barrels actually have a tapered bore. However I would expect the differences to be negligible at best.
If you build your own guns and know what you are doing I don't think you can go wrong with any of the FN manufactured CHF barrels.
If you want someone to build a gun or an upper for you then I recommend that you spend the extra money to get the attention to detail that is expected from Noveske or Centurion Arms.
Here's my FN CHF Barrel Chart.;)
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/FN_CHF_Barrels1.jpg
* I did not include BCM because it has not been confirmed that their BHF barrels are made by FN.
**Gas port size for Centurion and PSA based on Comp1911's pics and descriptions on page 7 of thread on TOS - PSA was tight fit with 5/64 drill bit and Centurion slightly looser with 5/64 drill bit.
Thats what I assumed but I've seen stickman and many others say BCM gets their CHF barrels from the same place Noveske and Centurion Arms get theirs from.
I don't remember saying that.
The larger question is why this site is playing wet nurse to a post made on another site.
Stickman,
No one here is playing wet nurse. I think many of us have been wondering about these barrels for some time and genuinely just want know how, exactly, they are different.
I don't see this as bad thing. Once the details are known about these barrels everyone can decide for themselves whether or not the differences are worth the extra cost and make their purchase according to their needs and wants.
Edited because I can't type for crap on my smart phone...:p
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