View Full Version : Want a new G19..gen 3 or 4?
So after reading all the recent threads on reliability issues on current production G19's....which would be more reliable? Gen 3 or 4?
I could care less about the upgraded gen4 features..although nice touches my main concern is reliability. i have access to both gen. guns but I am more confused than before I started reading on recent Glock reliability issues.
I am sure this has been beaten to death but I don't feel like tweaking a Glock to make it run. Thanks
The link below will have everything you want to know!
https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&site=&source=hp&q=site:+m4carbine.net+gen3+glock&psj=1&oq=site:+m4carbine.net+gen3+glock&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1939l25221l0l25647l32l32l1l0l0l0l233l3706l15.13.3l31l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=e0076bedeb17a1a3&biw=1024&bih=653
Save yourself the read & get a 3rd Gen
I have a GEN 4 19, had some feed problems at first, swapped the recoil spring and still had problems. After about 200 rounds everything seems to have evened out and it has been running the way that it should for almost a year now.
Over on GT there have been lots of reports of the GEN 3s having the same problems due to a batch of out of spe extractors.
GingerPatches
02-10-12, 21:36
I'd go with a recent manufacture gen4, as in, post-November 2011. They seem to have those issues sorted out, and are now "in limbo" regarding what ejector/extractor combo they are installing in the gen3 guns.
FWIW. I've owned 4 gen3 and 3 gen4 9mm guns since 2010, and haven't had any trouble. I know issues exist, but I sure don't have any first-hand knowledge.
So after reading all the recent threads on reliability issues on current production G19's....which would be more reliable? Gen 3 or 4?
I could care less about the upgraded gen4 features..although nice touches my main concern is reliability. i have access to both gen. guns but I am more confused than before I started reading on recent Glock reliability issues.
I am sure this has been beaten to death but I don't feel like tweaking a Glock to make it run. Thanks
Your right this topic has been beaten to death. It also keeps being brought to life and beaten again. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be buried already.
I hate to be one of those people that just say "search the forums" but come on man this subject is like the daily question. I mean just look at the first page or so of this handgun section. In your first paragraph I think you already know what the answer is going to be. If you searched this forum and did some research you would have more then enough to write a thesis on this subject as well as some counter arguments.
When you say Gen3 glock I'm assuming you mean brand new.
I'm a sample size of one but post updates pretty often on my experiences with both a Gen4 G19 purchased in July, and Gen3 G19
purchased in September.
I'm a glock user (own 8 of them) and I would tell you if you need a new trouble free gun right now to lean towards an HK or S&W M+P.If the HK is out of your price range go with the M+P.
I've had more trouble with my new Gen3 G19 than my Gen4 G19. In
fact (and I'm in a real small minority here) my Gen4 is at 4,600 rounds with no malfunctions, just the occasional brass ejected rearward. I shoot alot of rounds per week , I installed a .40cal extractor trying to fix my new Gen3's problems and honestly do not consider it the hoped for fix based on my last range session (haven't posted it yet).
I'm gonna go against the grain and say if you must go with a glock hunt down a used Gen3 from 2009 or earlier or get a really new(2012 with all the updates) Gen4 glock and take your chances.
Otherwise go M+P with a trigger upgrade.
As Kevin P has said there are 2 threads in here with gobs of info on the current status of glocks, read them.
My .02.
I own eleven Glocks Gen 1, 2, 2.5, & 3
Three are G19's....I'd hold off on the gen4 until its reliability issues are rectified.
Voodoo_Man
02-11-12, 08:59
I have a g4 g19.
Never had an issue.
I have a Gen 4 19, December 2011 build, and its a replacement for the Gen 4 19 I sent back to Glock 3 times in 4 months late last year. The December 2011 G4 19 still has ALL of the problems that many other people have. The "problem" is not "worked out" as far as I am concerned. I have been a Glock person for over 20 years and this issue is destroying the reputation.
Buy a pre 2010 G3 19 if you like. If not, be prepared to possibly call Glock ( here's the number ..770-432-1202), wait on hold, beg for a shipping label, and not have your gun for weeks at a time. Or you might get lucky. Good luck!
It is our experience that prior to mid-2010, the 3rd gen G19's generally ran very well and almost all 9 mm Glocks were good to go right out of the box; since mid-2010, both gen 3 and gen 4 9 mm Glocks became problematic and inconsistent in their reliability--some work, some don't. Personally, I'd look for a used gen 3 G19 produced prior to mid-2010. If you get a new, current production 3rd or 4th gen 9 mm Glock, I would NOT trust it for serious work until at least 3000 rounds had been fired without any malfunctions.
Thanks for the info guys. The hunt for a used Glock begins.
If you get a new, current production 3rd or 4th gen 9 mm Glock, I would NOT trust it for serious work until at least 3000 rounds had been fired without any malfunctions.
That's good advice.
Mine has run for 8K since the new ejector and extractor were installed with no malfs. It's just now starting to throw the odd casing square between my eyes after about ~12K total.
dirt_diver
02-11-12, 12:03
[QUOTE=mizer67;1226704]That's good advice.
As usual...
Buy a pre 2010 G3 19 if you like. If not, be prepared to possibly call Glock ( here's the number ..770-432-1202), wait on hold, beg for a shipping label, and not have your gun for weeks at a time. Or you might get lucky. Good luck!
Since when do the new Gen3s have problems?
What have they done to them? How do you as the consumer fix it?
Ive pretty much decided against an M&P as my first handgun because of their issues.
saddlerocker
02-11-12, 13:26
My question is how do you know when a Gen 3 Glock was made?
Is there a serial number database somewhere that can tell you when it was manufactured?
My local shop has a used G17, but I have no idea when it was made
My question is how do you know when a Gen 3 Glock was made?
Is there a serial number database somewhere that can tell you when it was manufactured?
My local shop has a used G17, but I have no idea when it was made
You can use the dated ID case envelope or jump on GT and there's a thread there which will get you pretty close.
I am a big time glock guy but as docgkr stated looked for a used one. I have a 08 gen three 19 and it's flawless. I have to tell you that I bought a S&W SD9 just to shoot, short money and came with vault and light brand new. It's same size as the 19 and I have to say the grip is wonderfull and fits my hand much better than my Glocks do. The trigger is about 7 lbs now and I have 800 rounds through this gun and it's been flawless. Shoots right on target and very accurate. I have really taken to this gun and trust me, I am Glock all the way. Some may tell you it's just a revamped Sigma, but it's not really. Steel night sight in front, much better extractor and fits me so well I don't want to stop shooting it. They run about $400.00 bucks out the door.
Guinnessman
02-12-12, 08:39
I have a January 2010 G19 RTF2 that has been your typical, old school, runs like a champ, Glock.
Last week I just picked up a Glock 19 with a test fire date of 11/11/11 and plan on shooting it some this week. Once I get at least 1000 rounds through it I will post a report on the Gen 3/4 problems thread.
I am a big time glock guy but as docgkr stated looked for a used one. I have a 08 gen three 19 and it's flawless. I have to tell you that I bought a S&W SD9 just to shoot, short money and came with vault and light brand new. It's same size as the 19 and I have to say the grip is wonderfull and fits my hand much better than my Glocks do. The trigger is about 7 lbs now and I have 800 rounds through this gun and it's been flawless. Shoots right on target and very accurate. I have really taken to this gun and trust me, I am Glock all the way. Some may tell you it's just a revamped Sigma, but it's not really. Steel night sight in front, much better extractor and fits me so well I don't want to stop shooting it. They run about $400.00 bucks out the door.
My brother's wife bought an SD9 before I converted her to a second gen.19. I can say that you're correct that it is a very good feeling pistol in the hand. She shot it a lot and I've shot it some and it has been reliable over the couple of years she's had it.The only real problem I found was that you need the assistance of a block and tackle to pull the trigger.:D
I can fix that if it were mine,and may do so anyway. She keeps it just as a spare now,but I may try to get it from her just to have something else to tinker with. I get bored being retired.
blasternank
02-12-12, 09:05
I like the feel of the grips of the G4 but with some of the issues you might want to either go with a g3 right now or wait a spell and get the g4.
Since when do the new Gen3s have problems?
What have they done to them? How do you as the consumer fix it?
Ive pretty much decided against an M&P as my first handgun because of their issues.
GEN 3 Glock's have been screwed up for some time as they started to put GEN 4 parts in them.
That is why DOC and others recommend looking for an older GEN 3.
As far as any "reliability" issues with the M&P goes, they were resolved last Summer (FYI). In fact, I would say that the current production M&P's are the most reliable guns S&W has ever made.
C4
I own a Gen4 G19. It's 'born on' date was August 2010. I've put exactly 4530 rds through it with no malfs of any kind. The trick is to use full power factory ammo.
I have no issues carrying it every day.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-12-12, 10:34
I own a Gen4 G19. It's 'born on' date was August 2010. I've put exactly 4530 rds through it with no malfs of any kind. The trick is to use full power factory ammo.
I have no issues carrying it every day.
What do you consider full power factory ammo?
What do you consider full power factory ammo?
I judge 'full power' based on ejection pattern. If it's convincingly ejected out of the gun, then it'll be ok for practice/training. Factory loaded ammo is important to me, even if its WWB. I've yet to have a problem with WWB for training purposes.
I have my own particular defense ammo, and I've ensured that it feeds, shoots, ejects/extracts reliably in the gun/mag combo that I use.
An alternative to 'full power factory' is my goofy reloads that I use for competitions. 124 gr FMJ + 4.1 gr Titegroup = ~1100 fps out of my G17. That sometimes dribbles the brass out, so no way would I use it to defend myself if I need to, but it's about as tame as it gets. Again, the needs for competitions are different than what I would use when walking down the street with my wife.
Hopefully that makes sense.
I shot 455 rounds through my Gen4 G19 yesterday. Didn't have any problems. I think it was made in March of 2011. That's I guess not exhaustive but it was reassuring since I got it used and wasn't sure what to expect.
What do you consider full power factory ammo?
Are you the same lowspeed-highdrag user on co-ar15?
Anyone have a serial# prefix as to when the gen 3's started to show issues? I think it was "P" prefix that I saw in a diff. thread.
What do you consider full power factory ammo?
Standard Euro 9 is about the same as our +P.
C4
DocH are we talking about the same gun? My trigger is nice a even 7 lbs and smooth. This is not a Sigma it's an SD. I have to say I am impressed with the new SD line.
GEN 3 Glock's have been screwed up for some time as they started to put GEN 4 parts in them.
That is why DOC and others recommend looking for an older GEN 3.
As far as any "reliability" issues with the M&P goes, they were resolved last Summer (FYI). In fact, I would say that the current production M&P's are the most reliable guns S&W has ever made.
C4
I didn't know they put gen4 parts in them, that's a shame. By reliability issues do you include the accuracy issue as well?
* sorry I don't mean to pull this tread off track.
wildmanjeff
02-12-12, 17:50
I have several glock 19s. Early in my research, and I did buy a gen 4, I sold it and went with the glock 19 for numerous reasons.
Reliability was established-may be now for the gen 4 since the recoil spring problem.
Parts from the gen 3 series are a lot more interchangable- glock 17 barrel on glock 19 frame, and most internals.
not really sold on a recoil spring that has to pass into a "stepped UP guide rod" just seems to me could be a point that could bind up and cause failure.
don't like the changeable backstrap system.
should I ever decide to put a guide rod laser in at the time of purchase there were none for the gen 4.
I heard that the gen 4 tenifer coating on the slide was not as thick/more matte finish than the gen 3, I would rather have the thicker coating and it looks a little better than the dull parkerized finish in my opinion.
honestly now I only have one small problem with the gen 3-- that is my first finger under trigger guard gets a little irritated with shooting box or more of ammo due to the texture in the finger grooves, call me tender- I could sand it down just a little but would rather not, for that reason, and the better grip, I like the gen 4 and after another year or so I might purchase one again.
These were my reasons for the gen 3 but I hear many peeps happy with gen 4 and say it is the only way to go.
lol good luck sorry I can't help your decision
The tennifer coatings are gone Glock is using another brand of coating now. More grey colored and wares much faster.
Psalms144.1
02-12-12, 18:02
I wouldn't and couldn't recommend a NEW G19 to anyone, unless you find "New, Old Stock" produced before 2010. I've had four G19s (two Gen4s, two 3rd Gens) in the last year, none have functioned reliably. The factory reps pulled an additional two 3rd Gen new production guns as possible replacements, and neither of them would function reliably. So, in my sample size of six pistols, the failure rate has been 100%.
The senior warranty manager who's handling my case now freely admits that they have NO IDEA why some recent G19s work and some don't, but they've pretty much gotten to the point where if it doesn't work perfectly out of the box, it likely never will. Even if it DOES function perfectly out of the box, if it has the "dip" MIM extractor, you have a decent chance of developing extraction/ejection problems after a couple thousand rounds (like my first bad 3rd Gen did...)
Regards,
Kevin
Something I definitely noticed between my Gen 3 and Gen 4 is that when shooting 115 grain target ammo and 115 critical defense, they feel the exact same.
When shooting NATO 124 grain ammo the Gen 3 recoiled just a tiny bit more than the Gen 4.
Just a thought.
Also, I thought replacing the extractor and/or ejector would fix any issues? Hope my Gen4 doesn't develop them. It's at 1,055 right now :(
wildmanjeff
02-12-12, 19:57
The tennifer coatings are gone Glock is using another brand of coating now. More grey colored and wares much faster.
that sucks--the tennifer coating is TOUGH and very low maintenance. I guess it is a good thing I bought 7 of them while I had a good paying job, and now I am on an AR kick :)
I had heard they were going to a lighter coating on the slide, and thought they meant thinner--which may have been at the time I don't know or remember who said it- prolly a youtuber
I just wonder why they did away with it---strange. I think it is a great coating.
Any benefits or thoughts or people that like it I would like to hear more about it.
acaixguard
02-12-12, 20:27
Isn't tenifer just a metal treatment procedure? That is, it permeates the metal components, and the black that you see on the slide is just a phosphate coating. From my understanding, it's the dark coating that's changed over the years (ranging from dull/matte to dark/shiny). However, the tenifer under that remains the same.
Tennifer is just a metal treatment the phosphate is the color coating. Glock has changed both. I guess they recieved too many compalints of the shinny black coating being too slippery. I have no idea why they did away with the tennifer , big mistake. Why they needed to go to different back straps , change the recoil springs, a more gritty trigger, mim extractors. Glock what are you people thinking? They took an ultra reliable strong pistol, out of the box, and turned it into a real problem that no one wants. There is an old saying "if it's not broken then don't fix it".
I didn't know they put gen4 parts in them, that's a shame. By reliability issues do you include the accuracy issue as well?
* sorry I don't mean to pull this tread off track.
Accuracy and reliability are two different things IMHO.
C4
acaixguard
02-12-12, 21:55
Tennifer is just a metal treatment the phosphate is the color coating.
How is the tenifer itself different than in the past?
wildmanjeff
02-12-12, 22:31
honestly I thought the tenifer coating was part of the color process/coating. This I am not sure about, but as a previous reply to thread stated that it is gone--I went to the glock website and the new website says nothing specific about the coating. Just states "GLOCK applies advanced surface treatments on major metal components, resulting in slightly less than diamond hardness. This considerably reduces wear and tear on these metal components and makes them corrosion resistant, even when operating in saltwater conditions. The matte black surface minimizes light reflection—an advantage in tactical circumstances." (cut from the web page description of Surface Treatment.
I think the tennifer was applied by dipping the parts in the solution. They are using another treatment but I have no knowledge of what it is, the tennifer teatment is gone. Maybe they have new austrian standards like our EPA, and they can't use it anymore.
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