View Full Version : School me; Glock 19 or HK P30?
Hey,
I've been eyeing G19( gen4) and P30. I had a gen3 G19 before, best glock I've ever had, even compare to G34. I had couple of USP, but never P30.
I know the gap in price is wide. I can almost get 2 G19 for that. This will be my everything gun, meaning, CCW, range, nightstand, SHTF, zombie, etc gun. If you can only have one handgun for the unforeseen future, which of these would it be?
I'm also open to G17&P30L comparison as well.
Thank you!
davebee456
02-12-12, 17:47
I would look for a slightly used Glock 19 3rd Gen with a letter serial number starting with K, L, M, or N
Stay away from new model Gen 3 and Gen 4 models
If you have the extra cash and dont really care about having spare parts of your own get the Hk P30 its incredible,
I have a Glock 19 and an Hk45c and love them both..
My P serial number Glock 19 had some weak ejection and Glock Inc. replaced the ejector, havent had a problem since although I have only shot 200 rounds since
Two totally different trigger systems. A better comparison would be the G19 & PPQ. Triggers are about the same. Price is about the same. Just different mag releases.
Psalms144.1
02-12-12, 18:11
The G19 is more size efficient, and more price efficient, to be sure. The trigger is easier to run well. Having said that, the chance of getting a Gen4 pistol that works properly is pretty slim. I've had SIX G19s in the last 1.5 years, all have been bad (erratic ejection and malfunctions).
The P30 is noticeably longer in the grip, so it does not conceal as well for most people. As you pointed out, it costs twice what a G19 does, and magazines are about 50% more expensive per piece. Parts and accessories are more expensive, and it's a more complicated pistol to work on, if you feel inclined to be a home gunsmith. The LEM trigger is very nice, but not as easy to run FAST as the Glock. The DA/SA trigger is hit & miss - nearly all the DA pulls I've felt on various pistols were VERY heavy; the SA triggers ranged from VERY nice (short reset and crisp break) to pretty pathetic.
All that aside, the P30 grip is the most comfortable of any pistol I've ever used, the P30 is significantly more accurate (especially noticeable to me at the 25 yard line, and, most importantly, it has shown PERFECT functional reliability.
So, when all is said and done, while I've been a died-in-the-wool Glock guy for several decades, there's a P30 on my hip right now, and I don't see much likelihood of that changing anytime soon.
Regards,
Kevin
Nephrology
02-12-12, 19:20
Of this rather artificially dichotomous choice, I would pick the G19.
Tough one. Two very different handguns. They both give you good reliability and accuracy. Glock wins in price and aftermarket supports and the HK wins in grip, "ambidextrous-ness" and atheistics (if that even matters). I think it'll come down to if you want DA/SA or DA only. Then again you can always get the P30 in V2...
I ridded myself of all glocks to procure more hks. I feel the p30 fits me better, and I prefer using the trigger finger to hit the mag release. Its hard to beat a p30 LEM with light springs. As previousoly stayed, if cost is a concern look elsewhere though.
Thanks everyone for your honest reply.
I am well aware of the different between two system. I don't mind any type of trigger, strike fire or drop hammer. it just a matter of getting use to and training, hance only one handgun. Give me a thousand round down range and I'll be good with any. It's the felt recoil, shoot ability, and reliability that I am after.
Perhaps I should tell you more about my limited experience with a number of handguns. Here's each one of them listed out from best to worst in each category;
Softest, fastest shooting
- Sig X5 Comp
- STI EDGE
- M&P 9
- USP 9 w/ LEM
Most accurate
- Sig X5 Comp
- STI EDGE
- G19
- M&P 9
Middle of the road
- G17
- G34
- P7M8
- USP 9 w/ LEM or V1
- FS92
- P226
Worst felt recoil
- P99
- P2000
- P229
- P250
- EMP 9
Easy to conceal
- P99
- G19
- M&P 9
- P7M8
I never actually carry P250 nor EMP 9.
Like many people, I can completely break down Glock in less than 5 minutes and work on any parts by myself. Now, It isn't the same with any other guns. But, the issues Gen4 G19 I've hered, is more like luck of a draw to me. You might get lucky, you might not, and that's where a high ticket, better quality manufacture like HK comes in. I just don't wanna have to deal with fixing, and shipping, and the wait, and all that. Remember, this will be my ONLY handgun.
Now to my question; I guess what I really want to know is if the P30 is an old whiskey in a new bottle? If it shoots like P2000, I'm gonna have to pass since I really hate the sharp recoil of the P2000. It reminds me of Walther P99 I had( the reason why I never thought of PPQ).
Thanks y'all
I've only ever shot 2 glocks and my one H&K...but if you have the funds for either I think you'd be crazy to go with the glock...H&K all the way! :D
I just got rid of a P30L, and I hated it's trigger. It is da/sa, but theres a mile of take up on both.
First off, :nono: to the Gen4...look for a Gen3 as previously stated.
Second, only YOU can make this decision. Go hold em, rent em, etc. Hearing from those who own/owned both is good to hear but I would take it with a grain of salt. Your belt, holster, body, skills, etc. all play into which would be a better decision for you
Here's my grain of salt :) I had a G19 and loved it. I picked up a P30 and was hooked. Even more so after shooting it. For my grip and preferences the P30 was the bees knees. So I recently sold the G19 and within an hour picked up a used (200 rounds) P30 and paid the difference of $75. For me, it was a VERY easy decision. Almost the same price, and the features and ergonomics of the P30 far outweigh the Glock, in my opinion. If you must buy new, then you are looking at quite a price differential. Yes the P30 is a little bigger than the G19 on paper. This is where youtube/the internet may influence your decision. I'd take a look at both and see if you think that difference in size is perceptible. I just ordered a holster with a little more forward cant to combat the bit longer grip...net wash in the size department.
Obviously it's up to you, if you can find a deal/have the cash, the P30 is a no-brainer. If you're looking for the Civic of handguns, the G19 is where it's at. To clarify, not bashing Glocks, just relating a Civic's reliability, ease of maint., abundance of aftermarket parts, seemingly infinite operational life, etc. I hate car analogies in the gun world but it made sense :)
Fun read on the beating of a P30 here: http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668
ETA: if you get tired of the trigger there's a few options
-LEM conversion, if you don't already have it installed
-Bill Springfield trigger work (under $100 and a few days to get done)
-Gray Guns trigger work (over $300 and at least a month-two to get done)
Coming from a hardcore HK fan I'd go with the P30. but that's also due to the fact that I have over 15,000 rounds with a P2000, and 7,000 rounds with my HK45 and I just fired my P30 and DAMN it is one SWEET pistola! But then again I usually lean toward the HK anyway.
Good luck.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-12-12, 23:20
P30. Best combat autoloader currently produced in my opinion.
I like both Glock & Hk. However the P30 will cost you some coin and plan on sending it in for a trigger job which is sort of a shame on such an already high priced pistol.
I hate, hate, HATE my P30 trigger. That said... it's still an awesome pistol, so i'm keeping it in the hopes that someone out there figures out how to make the P30 have a Glock trigger.
I semi-retired my HK and have been shooting the Glock much more in the past year.
Relating to the grip of each:
The P30 size wise is basically a Glock 17 with the slide of a 19, the P30L being absolutely identical in size, but so much more comfortable.
Personally I prefer the fuller grip of the 17, sure that half inch less of the 19 is slightly easier to conceal, but over the years I owned it I had trouble with my hand fitting the size of the grip, and went to a 17Gen 4. I'm not a big guy and find carrying 3-5:00 very difficult being thin front to back, any size pistol seems to stick out very noticeably, but AIWB 12-1:00, full size pistols disappear on my body. So take into account where you'll carry and what feels good in the hand.
Personally I'll stick to Glock until something else becomes more common; parts, magazines, etc. are very accessible, and working on them takes 2 minutes. But if I had the cash to jump into another platform(pistol, magazines, sights, holster), it would be a P30 and that's what I would carry without a doubt. Although I've been holding off on one for when/if the striker-fired version appears.
H&K P2000 is closer to size of Glock 19. As previously stated the P30 is more the size of the Glock 17.
The H&K LEM (i.e. preloaded double action) is my preferred H&K trigger. According to your needs/tastes there are a variety of spring combinations to achieve different trigger pulls.
The ergos of the P30 are superior to the P2000, but the P2000 does have three backstraps to choose from. And the P2000's grip is nonetheless very, very good.
My only gripe with the H&K is the position and configuration of the slide release. It makes a thumbs forward grip a bit problematic, but maybe that's just me.
I have a P2000 and a P30, and both have been absolutely dependable since their first round.
The P30's ergonomics are superior. That said, the Glock's are very easy to adapt to, and with the shorter butt heel (compared to the G17) it's not that difficult of a struggle at all.
In a part-for-part comparison, I don't think that there's any doubt that the HK is of superior materials and manufacture; however, in the real world, that has actually provided to be of little, if any demonstrable difference/advantage.
While I'm not happy at all over the seemingly ongoing issues with late Gen 3 and Gen4 Glock extractor issues, and Gen4 recoil spring (finally resolved) and ejector issues, Glock does seem to be stepping up to the plate to resolve the problematic guns. HK's aftermarket support is legendary in its contempt for consumers, seemingly of the attitude that superior German engineering trumps any real-world vicissitudes...
Glocks are probably the easiest guns in the world not just to field-strip, but to detail strip-and reassemble. To detail-strip an HK seemingly requires 3 hands, an engineering degree, and specialized tools.
Additional Glock magazines are inexpensive and readily available; conversely, additional HK magazines are expensive and sometimes appear to be made of unobtanium.
Glock triggerpulls are usually fairly nice right out of the box, and easily reconfigurable with easily available and inexpensive varieties of connectors and springs; every time I've come close to acquiring an HK, I've been off-put by their triggers, especially the DA, which inevitably seem to be significantly heavier and grittier. Of course, you can subject the gun to the ministrations of either HK or a number of aftermarket gunsmiths, but this seems to be an inordinate requirement for an already significantly expensive gun; Glocks can be had for literally half of the price of a comparable HK.
While I doubt that you'd regret getting a P30, and it's ergos are very nice (especially given its swappable side panels and backstraps, particularly nice not just to configure to yourself, but nice if you're going to be sharing it with a significant other), I think that the Glock provides a superior value, and you can utilize your cost savings in training, practice, and competition so that you can truly utilize the gun to its (and your) best advantage.
Best, Jon
Definitely a superior value with Glock. I must be a tolerable sheep of a customer, I don't find an issue with Glock or HK stock triggers. Sure it's heavier but I don't expect anything good out of a DA trigger.
Jon;
I read your post above, and pretty much agree with most everything you said, except your comments about HK's customer service....They DO NOT have contempt for the customer..That may have been the way of the past, But things have changed..In my case, 3 yrs ago, I had bought a NIB P-2000 LEM, after I got it home I noticed it did'nt engage in LEM mode when it was supposed to..It was broken from the factory...I called HK's CS on the following Monday, from work, I got someone on the third try, I explained my problem They told me I'd have to send it to them, and they'd fix and send it back..So, I did, I had it back within 10days, They fixed the orginial problem (broken spring) and then went through the pistol looking for anything else wrong..They found a out of spec firing pin spring replaced it as well, test fired it and sent it back, I never had another problem with it. The one other time I called wanting parts to convert the LEM to a light LEM, Each time I had called they were courteous, listened to me explained what parts I needed when changing the LEM, and sent them quickly..I don't have any complaints..I thought their CS was'nt bad at all..
Agree with JonInWa. The P30 was once my favorite pistol. Then i tried a Glock 19 and realized the simplicity and trigger, made more sense overall.
Beat Trash
02-13-12, 10:05
I've been content with the Gen3 Glock 19 for years. But my newest one was bought in 2004. To me, it's the perfect size for my needs, to include concealed carry.
But there are enough issues with current production guns that I would be hesitant to buy a new one at this time.
My agency transitioned from S&W 5946's to M&P9;s a little over six years ago. These guns are excellent. But they don't conceal as well for me as the Glock 19. The M&P9c doesn't work for me as well as a Glock 19 does either.
But with the intermittent accuracy issues lately on current production guns, I'd be hesitant to buy a new M&P 9mm also.
I have a limited amount of time shooting a P30. Whoever designed the grip must be my identical twin. I have never felt a grip that was so comfortable and felt so right. The P30 is reliable and accurate enough. The thing is so over engineered, the thing is built like a tank. I have heard from several individuals that H&K has stepped up their customer service to an acceptable level.
The initial cost of the P30 is a hard thing to overcome when compared to the cost of a new Glock 19. But when compared to the cost of a decent 1911, all of the sudden the P30 doesn't cost that much. The difference in the cost of the magazines is there, but I could live with it.
The deal breaker for me would be the difference in the triggers between the two guns. The DA/SA would not be an option for me, so I'd be looking at the LEM. With training I'm sure the LEM could become manageable, especially if it were the only gun you used. But I prefer the triggers on the Glock personally.
With that said, I'd trust a NIB P30 to be reliable and accurate out of the box. I don't fell that way about newly produced Glock and M&P 9mm's.
P30 with light LEM. Best 9mm available on the market, hands down.
Quick question, would you be comfortable with the idea that a current gen 4 g19 might have a small chance of developing problems?
It all of course boils down to what you prefer. I personally had both and now have only p30s in LEM. I also find that triggers for the most part are personal too. Triggers seem to be that thing everyone likes to talk about or complain about. To me triggers are really not a big deal. It just takes time and practice to learn a certain gun.
Maybe it's because I learned how to shoot with a revolver in DA first or something.
With that being said glocks are great guns. The two g19's I owned were older gen 3s. With glocks you do have easy access to parts and accessories. But I have not had any issues with getting parts from HK. Things have changed around at HK for the better. With the new HK pistols you don't need to service the pistol till 20k rounds. Although you would be wise to switch out your trigger return spring at 12k. Magazines for the HK can be had for 31-32 bucks. Don't believe everything people will tell you about one make of pistol or another. Do some research and see for yourself.
The p30 works better for me as I prefer a rolling trigger plus all the other good characteristics that you have heard about them. I also like a hammer fired gun for added safety with how I carry.
The only thing I hear people complain about the p30 is price and trigger. Which both are two user specific issues.
The DA/SA on the P30 , to me, isn't the issue that i have with the trigger, it's the ungodly long reset of the SA that chaps my ass. Hell i had a $300 P-07 with a better SA reset.
I just don't understand why the P30 is the black sheep.. all of the other HK's in the display case usually have better stock V3 triggers than the P30. If i had the feel of the HK45 V3 i'd be a very happy camper.
CommackBoy
02-13-12, 11:46
Ergonomics - hands down HK. Both a very accurate. Both need sights changed (H&K has glow in the dark sights, Glock's are not really sights, just place holders) Trigger, Glock hands down. That's what it came down to. I sold 4 of my HKs and switched over to Glocks.
R3V3LATIONS
02-13-12, 16:25
Stay far far away from the Gen 4 Glocks IMHO. There are many threads and SME inputs on this forum, and many others that explain why. If you go Glock, tis a fine choice, but as a carry/hard use piece...stick with an early (pre-2011) glock gen 2 if you can find one of gen 3 19.
If you must buy new, buy the P30. its about as bomb proof as you can get from a NIB handgun. reliable, dead accurate sights, ergonomic, the list goes on. Obvious downside, the initial and mag prices. But as a counter to that, ask yourself, how much is your life worth?
ThreeFingerPete
02-13-12, 16:29
After owning many Glocks and currently owning a P30, I'd vote Glock.
I absolutely HATE the trigger of the P30. Mine is a v3 (DA/SA), and I bought it intending to carry Cocked/locked. The SA break is so close to the end of its travel that there is a mile of take up, and the reach is just to short to adapt easily to. I keep thinking that I'm going to get used to it. Ain't happening.
Here's a review I wrote almost a year ago:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73118
Years ago, when I was chasing the next best pistol I went from a G17 to a P30. Oh the days of $70 unobtanium P30 magazines, stock sights or Trijicon(only choices) and custom holsters that required months wait time made me grow a strong loyalty to my P30.
If I would have spent all that time and money into the G17(or G19) I wonder what kind of shooter I could be today?
The ease of work/maintenance on the Glock series compared to the Hk is hard to describe. I can take a Glock apart to the frame with a ball point pen and put it back together in 10-12ish minutes. The Hk requires my little hobby vice, patience, eye protection, 2 different sized pin punches, needle nose pliers, patience, a hammer and depending on my focus level about an hour.
I can get new factory spare parts for the Glock nearly everywhere including local. The Hk limits you to calling Hk-USA/hkparts.net or maybe some forums. Nothing nearly as convenient as procuring Glock parts.
The LEM trigger is not a striker fired action style trigger. It may be consistent but, IMO, more difficult.
I'd buy a used Gen 3 Glock. Gently used, roughly used or buried in mud it will be easy enough to get working again.
Signed,
an M&P shooter(who is patiently waiting for gen4 Glock problems to go away to return 'home')
Thanks jwperry, nice contract outlining benefits of the Glock.
I am amazed how simple the slide is! Amazing design.
My .02 cents would be to go with the battle proven Glock and buy a dump truck load of ammo with the money you save.
Assuming money is no object (you're a gazillionaire) would you still choose a Glock over the P30?
Assuming money is no object (you're a gazillionaire) would you still choose a Glock over the P30?
I know I would personally. The Glock's a few ounces lighter and is striker fired (which I prefer over DAO and DA/SA.) Parts and accessories are more readily accessible (in my area at least.) More things to consider but that's my main reasons.
ThreeFingerPete
02-13-12, 19:42
Assuming money is no object (you're a gazillionaire) would you still choose a Glock over the P30?
I'm not sure who you're asking. In my case, I have plenty of handguns, and as soon as I get off my ass and do it, I'll have the P30 sold, and probably replace it with a Glock 20 with a .40 conversion barrel.
This is the problem with these types of threads; no one can tell you what works best for you. I've shot HKs and Glocks. I think they're both excellent guns, but very different. If you want to know which will work best for you, go to a range, rent both a lot and shoot both a lot. In other words run them and keep running them until you get a GOOD idea of which one works better for you. Unless you need to buy one tomorrow, and I can't think of any reason why you would, take your time and figure what works best for your situation.
My god.. These are some good posting! Lots of info and less drama of "my gun better than yours" type of post. Very constructive, guys!
If they haven't screw up the Glocks, there wouldn't be this post. I know I can get a G19 with tuned trigger, night sights, extra mags with +2 extension, and a holster before even tap into a bare-bone P30 price before tax!
But, that's isn't the case..
Selling something just to get rid of a bad purchase makes it even pricier in the end. As someone have already pointed out here, if it doesn't go bang the way it supposed to when it supposed to, what are you gonna do with the money you save then?
I really wish it was easier. I hate to get ripoff, paying for something more than I should, but there really isn't a perfect middle ground here. Take a $550 gamebleling, or spend $1000, shut up and go to bed.
I guess the sweetest spot of my situation here is to keep an eye out for a nice, pre owned, P30 with some extra goodies popping up for sale. Big thanks to everyone participating in this tread. There's wealth of knowledge and friendly advices here in this forum.
Last but not least, very good to be here! :thank_you2:
Don't forget to check your local cop shops. You may be able to get an utterly flawless used Gen 3 for $369 or less.
The police here use .40 though, so downside if you're looking for a 9mm. With GSSF pricing though a brand spanking new Glock is $425, so maybe more worth the risk if you pick up a really recent 2011 model (or wait until 2012 hits the shops even).
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-13-12, 23:21
I am always entertained by people selecting their handguns by parts availiblity. I understand that you probably don't want to equip a police department with Steyr GBs, but come on.
davebee456
02-13-12, 23:23
i really mean the affordability of the spare parts vs Hk Parts
My god.. These are some good posting! Lots of info and less drama of "my gun better than yours" type of post. Very constructive, guys!
If they haven't screw up the Glocks, there wouldn't be this post. I know I can get a G19 with tuned trigger, night sights, extra mags with +2 extension, and a holster before even tap into a bare-bone P30 price before tax!
But, that's isn't the case..
Selling something just to get rid of a bad purchase makes it even pricier in the end. As someone have already pointed out here, if it doesn't go bang the way it supposed to when it supposed to, what are you gonna do with the money you save then?
I really wish it was easier. I hate to get ripoff, paying for something more than I should, but there really isn't a perfect middle ground here. Take a $550 gamebleling, or spend $1000, shut up and go to bed.
I guess the sweetest spot of my situation here is to keep an eye out for a nice, pre owned, P30 with some extra goodies popping up for sale. Big thanks to everyone participating in this tread. There's wealth of knowledge and friendly advices here in this forum.
Last but not least, very good to be here! :thank_you2:
Check the equpitment exchange on this board..Used(usually under 500rnds) P-30's show up quite regularly..
Nephrology
02-14-12, 06:31
I am always entertained by people selecting their handguns by parts availiblity. I understand that you probably don't want to equip a police department with Steyr GBs, but come on.
Having to select between 2 holster companies and 2 pairs of night sights is infinitely less optimal than having 2 dozen holster maker sand 2 dozen night sight models that work with your pistol. It is a reasonable consideration to make.
I am always entertained by people selecting their handguns by parts availiblity. I understand that you probably don't want to equip a police department with Steyr GBs, but come on.
When it costs $50 to ship the gun across the country and takes two weeks for somebody to even acknowledge recipt, having a simple design and cheap, available parts is nice. Glock and Smith both are awesome in this regard.
Shoot enough or just get unlucky and parts break. Within about a year, give or take, I saw a bolt break on a MAK-90 (it made the rounds on the internet, IIRC; I was standing behid the owner at B&G south of Huntsville when the lug fell out of his magwell), two trigger springs break on older Glock 9mms (17s, IIRC; one in a match, one at practice), a dovetailed sight walk out of the slide on Kimber 1911 (in a match), and an extractor break on a Nighthawk 1911 (in a match, naturally).
As a result, I never take just one gun to a match and am now outright paranoid about parts breakage. I have spares for wear items and prefer to only buy guns a neanderthal like myself can maintain.
edit: also a broken mag spring in an STI 2011
Check the equpitment exchange on this board..Used(usually under 500rnds) P-30's show up quite regularly..
For under $700 shipped...ask me how I know :D
When it costs $50 to ship the gun across the country and takes two weeks for somebody to even acknowledge recipt, having a simple design and cheap, available parts is nice. Glock and Smith both are awesome in this regard.
Shoot enough or just get unlucky and parts break. Within about a year, give or take, I saw a bolt break on a MAK-90 (it made the rounds on the internet, IIRC; I was standing behid the owner at B&G south of Huntsville when the lug fell out of his magwell), two trigger springs break on older Glock 9mms (17s, IIRC; one in a match, one at practice), a dovetailed sight walk out of the slide on Kimber 1911 (in a match), and an extractor break on a Nighthawk 1911 (in a match, naturally).
As a result, I never take just one gun to a match and am now outright paranoid about parts breakage. I have spares for wear items and prefer to only buy guns a neanderthal like myself can maintain.
edit: also a broken mag spring in an STI 2011
Quick question have you had to ship a p30 or HK45 series pistol back to HK?
I agree with Greg.
I have never had an issue with getting extra spare parts. The maintenance schedule on the p30 and hk45s are ridiculously long at 20k rounds. Changing your TRS would be a good idea at around 12k rounds. Like I said earlier magazines can be had in the low 30 bucks range($31-$32shipped).
Like I said earlier magazines can be had in the low 30 bucks range($31-$32shipped).
Between the classified ads on this forum and HKpro i've bought 9 (hardly) used P30 mags and i've never paid more than $25 a pop.
Quick question have you had to ship a p30 or HK45 series pistol back to HK?
I read a guy in NC just shipped his in and had a 3 day turnaround for a LEM conversion...
Quick question have you had to ship a p30 or HK45 series pistol back to HK?
I agree with Greg.
I have never had an issue with getting extra spare parts. The maintenance schedule on the p30 and hk45s are ridiculously long at 20k rounds. Changing your TRS would be a good idea at around 12k rounds. Like I said earlier magazines can be had in the low 30 bucks range($31-$32shipped).
I've shipped two different guns to S&W and never got them back in less than a week. If one guy got a next day turnaround one time that's great. I doubt HK is going to guarantee it, however, so it's still a crapshoot.
As to maintenance intervals, a MTBF of 20,000 rounds doesn't mean the spring is guaranteed for as long. An impressive figure like that doesn't mean much when yours breaks at round 5413 during a match or a class.
YMMV. Some people can beat on the same 1st gen Glock without so much as a spring change and never have it bite them. Others...not so much.
After seeing a few accidents with fatalities, you start wearing your seat belt.
There's also something to be said for having the option of ordering parts through Brownells or Midway. No more phone roulette and wondering if you're going to get John Smith the asshole or John Doe the super helpful guy. Website, credit card, done.
Having to select between 2 holster companies and 2 pairs of night sights is infinitely less optimal than having 2 dozen holster maker sand 2 dozen night sight models that work with your pistol. It is a reasonable consideration to make.
First, if theres 2 GOOD options - what's wrong with that? Better than looking for a 'good' option amongst a plethora of shitty ones. You'd rather select from a market flooded with turds?
I'll give you sights. But that's bad data on the holsters, there's more options than 2. Raven, Blade Tech, Safariland, etc. make great kydex owb options. TT Gunleather, Occidental, Raven, etc. make great IWB options. Those are the only brands I'd ever look to for holsters - and they're available for the 19 and P30. There was ( ;) ) a TT Gunleather IWB on eBay for $110. I'm finding accessories to be pretty easy to find.
Some good info in this thread but a lot of nitpicking too. Holster and part availability pale in comparison to what really matters when selecting a pistol. We are talking about HK and Glock here...how often does one really need aftermarket parts (unless you have a gen4)? Hopefully we hear more comparisons on shootability, accuracy, [out of the box] reliability, customer service, etc.
I've shipped two different guns to S&W and never got them back in less than a week. If one guy got a next day turnaround one time that's great. I doubt HK is going to guarantee it, however, so it's still a crapshoot.
As to maintenance intervals, a MTBF of 20,000 rounds doesn't mean the spring is guaranteed for as long. An impressive figure like that doesn't mean much when yours breaks at round 5413 during a match or a class.
YMMV. Some people can beat on the same 1st gen Glock without so much as a spring change and never have it bite them. Others...not so much.
After seeing a few accidents with fatalities, you start wearing your seat belt.
I did not mention anything about turnaround times and guarantee about other companies or HK. I was asking about your personal experience about sending a pistol back to HK.
The point I was making is that the HK pistols genuinely have long intervals. We all know that nothing is for sure. Parts break and so forth, it happens. That's why we have identical guns and spare parts. We understand and know that.
I mentioned about having spare parts and that I have never had a problem from HK getting spares. Do you have personal experience about obtaining parts from HK?
With that being said there are alot of pistols being sent back to Glock(new gen3's and gen4's) as well as S&W(9mm accuracy issues). It's up to an individual if they want to potentially deal with those issues or not. Personally if I wanted a SFA gun, I would not buy a new Glock or new S&W.
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23446&d=1328760243
Psalms144.1
02-14-12, 22:47
I'll give you sights. But that's bad data on the holsters, there's more options than 2. Raven, Blade Tech, Safariland, etc. make great kydex owb options. TT Gunleather, Occidental, Raven, etc. make great IWB options. Those are the only brands I'd ever look to for holsters - and they're available for the 19 and P30. There was ( ;) ) a TT Gunleather IWB on eBay for $110. I'm finding accessories to be pretty easy to find.
Well, on the sights issue, there are Meps (which I'm running with no issues), Trijicons, Heinies, and 10-8 (rear only for now). At SHOT, folks at Ameriglo implied that P30 sights in a variety of flavors are likely to be available in the not too distant future.
You've hit it on the head on holsters, though. A year or two ago, no one was making them. Now I'll add to your list Galco and Desantis are making a variety of rigs, as is Alessi (who's cutting one for me right now), Crossbreed, and a large number of smaller outfits. I think the holster issue is really overplayed by detractors.
Regards,
Kevin
Whoa whoa whoa stop the clock!
When did 10-8 start making p30 sights?
Whoa whoa whoa stop the clock!
When did 10-8 start making p30 sights?
They haven't released them yet but should be within the next month or so.
They haven't released them yet but should be within the next month or so.
Best news i've heard all day! thanks!
Well, on the sights issue, there are Meps (which I'm running with no issues), Trijicons, Heinies, and 10-8 (rear only for now). At SHOT, folks at Ameriglo implied that P30 sights in a variety of flavors are likely to be available in the not too distant future.
You've hit it on the head on holsters, though. A year or two ago, no one was making them. Now I'll add to your list Galco and Desantis are making a variety of rigs, as is Alessi (who's cutting one for me right now), Crossbreed, and a large number of smaller outfits. I think the holster issue is really overplayed by detractors.
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks for the good news! Would love to get some idots for the p30
OP, you're comparing apples and oranges with a glock and an hk.
buy the expensive one know and then pick u p the cheap glock sometime later.
I'll put a vote in for a gen 3 glock.
I often consider selling my glock and getting a p2000 (similar size to the 19). then i realize that i will have to relearn the trigger and buy a bunch of 50 dollar mags, and i still won't be a better shooter.
the fact that a glock can be taken apart completely with a furniture nail in about 3 minutes is kind of neat too.
the current production glock stuff still has my back up a bit, but it really is the most elegant handgun design.
I often consider selling my glock and getting a p2000 (similar size to the 19). then i realize that i will have to relearn the trigger and buy a bunch of 50 dollar mags, and i still won't be a better shooter.
You can very easily find new HK P2000 mags for well under $50. Well under $40 for that matter.
You can very easily find new HK P2000 mags for well under $50. Well under $40 for that matter.
$29 shipped for p30 mags
$29 shipped for p30 mags
don't hold out on us! cheapest I've found is $33+ship
don't hold out on us! cheapest I've found is $33+ship
Sorry I was mistaken - $31 shipped. Still good though!
http://crosscreekguns.com/magazines.html
Sorry I was mistaken - $31 shipped. Still good though!
http://crosscreekguns.com/magazines.html
Yeah that guy is awesome! I bought my last two P30s from him! Great prices!
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23446&d=1328760243
Oh Damn, you won!! cool pic
Old thread but relevant topic. Especially since the Gen4 problems have been fixed(btf)?? and the p30 has had more time for people to evaluate.
maybe Vp9 vs G19 now though..
I am in this exact dilemma right now with these two pistols. I do not have a semi auto right now and I just want one pistol for HD and occasional carry.
Im not gonna carry everyday, its impractical with my job and lifestyle. (I know that sounds lame but im just not gonna carry everyday..)
Im not gonna buy crates of ammo and go train. Im just not, I have other hobbies. I would love to but not in position to spend the cash required to satisfy all my hobbies..
Im not gonna cry and whine that the trigger isnt AbsolutlyfrcknPerfect..
Im not gonna take it apart every weekend and replace factory parts and springs or aftermarket triggers..
I am gonna replace the sights
I am gonna shoot a couple hundred rnds a month. (hopefully)
I am gonna dry-fire A-Lot to get the trigger down.
I am gonna stoke it up with some +P's and stick it in the nightstand for HD.
I am gonna carry it once in a while.. Mainly road trips with the fam.. in and out of town..
I know the g19 makes sense and is half the price. Ive owned and shot multiple glocks. I tend to shoot them left if im not really concentrating.. Just cant get excited about it.
I have not shot the Hkp30 but it is the most comfortable pistol ive ever wrapped my hands around.. I fondled a few at gun stores in the last few weeks and cant get the p30 outta my head. I dry fired them and the triggers felt great on the ones I handled. The DA wasn't fabfrckntastic, but so what.. I have shot an hk usp 45 compact and really liked it. ive owned a few sigs so I like da/sa. But I need to go at least dry fire a V1 LEM just to see.
I think I just better bite the bullet and buy the HK..
G19, VP9, PPQ
For the common man, take your pick. You can't beat the $550 value. And I believe 90% of population with a moderate level of basic shooting can become more proficient with less time shooting a solid striker vs a DA/SA hammer. Both achievable, one with a slightly slower learning curve.....We can't all be operators.
G19 is still the king in my book based on market support and size efficiently, with most other differance related to taste rather than facts. And the gen 4 triggers are pretty good.
I personally am on a Walther kick. After an HK and glock kick of course.
I have owned most HK hammered fired guns in LEM (should really get a USP45 at some point)
Of all HK45/p series, usp's I have had the p30 single action reset was the worst (the best going to the HK45 series). It takes practice to get good. Todd green can run one your damn right, how much you really going to shoot? How good is your DA under stress if you don't go LEM? Don't forget to decock either. Another training detail. Love the P30 have owned 2. It's a great choice if that what makes you smile!
brickboy240
01-27-16, 12:30
Yep, all 3 of those would make a great carry piece.
However, if we are to be honest, the Glock 19 still wins.
Why? The number of holsters and accessories, the viable aftermarket cheap mags, the ease of working on it.
Those features alone make the Glock 19 still the one to have.
Hey, I also own SIGs, 1911s and other pistols and really like them but the ol' G19 is the one I carry and it is damn hard to beat.
gtmtnbiker98
01-28-16, 12:46
People get too wrapped up on "aftermarket support." IMO, find a holster that works, install sights that work, buy some extra holsters and shoot the damn thing. I should certainly hope that the sole basis on pistol purchases are not centered upon who makes the most holsters, sights, and cheapest magazines.
WickedWillis
01-28-16, 13:01
People get too wrapped up on "aftermarket support." IMO, find a holster that works, install sights that work, buy some extra holsters and shoot the damn thing. I should certainly hope that the sole basis on pistol purchases are not centered upon who makes the most holsters, sights, and cheapest magazines.
I love the P30, my only personal knock is the reset on the P30, It's horrible.
People get too wrapped up on "aftermarket support." IMO, find a holster that works, install sights that work, buy some extra holsters and shoot the damn thing. I should certainly hope that the sole basis on pistol purchases are not centered upon who makes the most holsters, sights, and cheapest magazines.
That's what I'm talking about!
Hey I'm a devinciWilsonintense275cYTmtnbiker96
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
PrivateCitizen
01-28-16, 19:04
People get too wrapped up on "aftermarket support." IMO, find a holster that works, install sights that work, buy some extra holsters and shoot the damn thing. I should certainly hope that the sole basis on pistol purchases are not centered upon who makes the most holsters, sights, and cheapest magazines.
All true … yet "aftermarket" support is what a lot of that is. Now, the HK might not suffer from it exactly … but for many getting a quality holster, mags without an immense amount of fiddling is also what "aftermarket support" brings.
Not directed at anyone, just my thoughts …
So, end of day, can you find a good set of holsters, sights, etc and a quality smith with platform experience if the need arises.
For me it is a lot less about the gun you like as it is about the gun you can … and will … shoot. And if cost is a factor that extra $500 out the door when all is said and done "buy once cry once" factor on an HK X v G19 is 2000 rounds of ammo you should have been shooting.
Aftermarket support can curtail cost, less cost equals more ammo, more ammo (if the shooter does their part) from the line makes a better shooter. I ain't saying buy a Taurus or anythign and I guess you could get stuck in a shopping cycle of never ending addon "goodies" … but in that case were you ever gonna really shoot seriously were you?
Anyway, 2 bits.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.