View Full Version : First handgun
Blazer guy
02-13-12, 21:20
Im looking for my first handgun and I would just like some advice. It will be used mainly as a range gun, but also in the future it could be a bedside gun. I would like the gun to have an external safety, i know that its not needed but I would just feel better having one. I know that it will take more training to learn to use the safety. I have been reading for quite a while and I have pretty much narrowed it down to 2 pistols. The fist being a Beretta 92FS, and the second being a FNH FNX 9. I am leaning more towards the Beretta due to the aftermarket support and that it has been tested and proven more than the FNX. I would just like some advice on what you think of the Beretta as a first handgun. And also if the FNX would be a better choice than the Beretta and why. Thank you.
Out of those two I would pick th berreta but if you want a recommendation I would pick a smith & wesson m&p. They have ones with a thumb safety.
The 92FS/M9 isn't my first choice for a pistol. It is comparatively large and heavy. Sight options are limited. Though I know shooters who can fire DA/SA autos quickly and accurately, I find striker fire pistols much easier to learn to shoot well, especially for beginners. I don't find the slide mounted safety particularly easy to manipulate either (and you appear to want to actually use it as a safety vice a decocker). Most guys I know that shoot the M9 shoot it because it is issued to them, not because they would select it given a choice.
I'd give the Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm with a frame mounted safety a serious look. It would meet your safety requirement, but would be an easier to shoot pistol than the Beretta. I have no experience with the FN, but it is not a very common pistol (perhaps a clue) and I think there are better choices out there.
ETA: The H&K P30 has also developed a following and is available with a safety. The P30 may merit consideration.
Here's what I recommend:
Hit the range with friends who might have different pistols/revolvers you can try out....or....
go to a range and rent a few guns and try them. Don't buy anything too quick.
make it a smart decision.
Here's what I recommend:
Hit the range with friends who might have different pistols/revolvers you can try out....or....
go to a range and rent a few guns and try them. Don't buy anything too quick.
make it a smart decision.
This exactly.
But if you want a handgun to save your life, see if you like the 1911 in .45 or the Browning Hi-Power in 9mm.
When the sun goes down in the Big City, and the thugs come out to play, them's the one to have at hand.
When the sun goes down in the Big City, and the thugs come out to play, them's the one to have at hand.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg
I have an FNX 9, it's a great gun imo. There is also someone here who did a bit of a torture test with one and it has faired well.
Ergos are excellent, safety is easy to manipulate, SA trigger is great, get 3 mags, full ambi, really good checkering on the frame.
All that being said, I'd still recommend a striker fired gun for a first and only. The trigger is much easier to learn and there are a lot of great options, though the problems the MP and Glock 9mms are having makes things bit more murky.
Rattlehead
02-13-12, 23:15
But if you want a handgun to save your life, see if you like the 1911 in .45 or the Browning Hi-Power in 9mm.
Please elaborate.
F-Trooper05
02-13-12, 23:15
But if you want a handgun to save your life, see if you like the 1911 in .45 or the Browning Hi-Power in 9mm.
When the sun goes down in the Big City, and the thugs come out to play, them's the one to have at hand.
That's the second time in a week I've seen that exact quote from you. :rolleyes:
The best weapon YOU can have is the one that YOU are accurate/competent with. Don't let caliber be the only issue that YOU consider here.
I like the beretta but to me the safety is ass-backwards if you actually want to use it. If I actually owned one I would always have the safety off, hammer down on a loaded chamber. This is how I always carry DA/SA autos if I can.
I much prefer the safety setup on the FNX with the option of cocked-and-locked carry.
The M&P with the optional and removable 1911-esque thumb safety is also a very good choice, probably the best bet.
Since you dont know anything about handguns its pointless to try to "narrow it down" youd get the same result flipping a coin.
You first need to at least learn the basics of shooting a pistol before you can have any type of real idea of what you will want/need. I would recommend learning to shoot a pistol, then trying a few of the major ones.
Most people pretty much agree a striker fired design is easier to learn than a da/sa.
XD, Glock, or M&P. Just take it out to the range and get used to whatever you buy. External safeties like you're referring to are relatively few and far between. The XD has an abundance of useful safety features you'll like. I'll say what I said in a previous thread, go get them in your hand (preferably shoot them if possible) and THEN make a decision.
When the sun goes down in the Big City, and the thugs come out to play, them's the one to have at hand.
WTF dude? Either that's a joke or you just went full retard.
OP - I'll be honest, I have no experience with the fnx. As far as beretta goes, im not a big fan, especially for a beginning shooter. But despite any of that, you are going down the wrong path. As others have suggested, try out various guns before making any decisions. Honestly a basic pistol class with a good instructor (and a pistol rental) will give you a ton of information with which you will be able to make a much more informed decision. Seriously, slow down. I know it's tough to do when you've got your heart set on punching the buy button but it will benefit you in the long run. Good luck.
I like the beretta but to me the safety is ass-backwards if you actually want to use it. If I actually owned one I would always have the safety off, hammer down on a loaded chamber. This is how I always carry DA/SA autos if I can.
That's my preferred method of beretta carry and also what i taught. This is what I was referring to as why I don't consider berettas beginner friendly. I've seen more beginners do strange things with berettas than any other pistol (my experience only). And when carried as such, may as well make it a sig :).
For the record, I'm personally a glock guy but was started on a Sig P228.
My first gun was a Smith & Wesson 5906 police trade in with ambi thumb safetys was a great gun. I agree get something with a safty on the frame or slide till you know how to use a firearm properly.
My first gun was a Smith & Wesson 5906 police trade in with ambi thumb safetys was a great gun. I agree get something with a safty on the frame or slide till you know how to use a firearm properly.
Disagree completely. That's some old school thinking. At best, a manual safety adds complexity and requires additional training and at worst, particularily for a new shooter, a safety can aid in ingraining a mindset with a lack of trigger dicipline or muzzle control since the gun is on "safe."
Honestly, I would prefer a new shooter to start on a gun with a da/sa (long da) trigger pull. About as safe as it gets while minimizing complexity - still have to decock post engagement but it is a good trade off IMHO since I consider long dao pulls highly inefficient.
Not saying a new shooter can't start with a glock. But if there is any concern in his head, I think a da/sa (long da pull) such as a sig is an ideal compromise.
Nephrology
02-14-12, 06:05
Look into a Glock 19 (Gen 2 or 3) or a S&W M&P9.
You will thank yourself later.
Im looking for my first handgun and I would just like some advice. It will be used mainly as a range gun, but also in the future it could be a bedside gun. I would like the gun to have an external safety, i know that its not needed but I would just feel better having one. I know that it will take more training to learn to use the safety. I have been reading for quite a while and I have pretty much narrowed it down to 2 pistols. The fist being a Beretta 92FS, and the second being a FNH FNX 9. I am leaning more towards the Beretta due to the aftermarket support and that it has been tested and proven more than the FNX. I would just like some advice on what you think of the Beretta as a first handgun. And also if the FNX would be a better choice than the Beretta and why. Thank you.
Why do you want an external safety? To protect yourself from a ND?
What handguns have you tried, up to this point? What aftermarket support are you looking for? The Glock and 1911 have quite a bit of "aftermarket support". Outside of night sights and extra magazines, I keep my guns stock.
The 92FS that I had (Inox) had fixed sights and they were not good. The double action pull is heavy and long, and I doubt that you'd shoot it in that mode. The safety is opposite of most guns aside from the PX4, made by them. I don't trust a decocker, not to fire, so that is not exactly a safety feature that I'd trust. The gun is heavy and will tame recoil. It's easy to maintain and field strip. Cost of magazines is higher than average but availability is good. 9mm is abundant and easy to find. I used to have a 92FS but that was 20 years ago.
No experience with the FN.
Striker fire pistols are excellent for those with less training. Short trigger pull that still requires some deliberate movement, and you're less likely to fire off two shots accidentally, unlike a single action pistol. The XD has a loaded chamber indicator on the top, a cocked trigger indicator on the back and a grip safety that must be depressed by a regular grip to fire. The M&P has an external safety option and the backstrap can be adjusted to different sizes. The Glock has no external safety. All three have some variant of a "split trigger". I have 4 Glocks and one XDM. The Glock requires a trigger pull to field strip. The XDM has a lever and doesn't require a trigger pull.
For range shooting, nothing really beats a Single Action Government 1911. That's what I prefer. Ammo can be more expensive, though.
I have always recommended a revolver for a first time gun owner to learn the basics of double action trigger control. It doesn't typically fail but there are some nuisances of failures that occur such as with speedloaders and the process of emptying the cylinders. As a pinker you can shoot single action but once you master a double action revolver, then you can shoot just about anything.
If its not a home defense gun, then another choice is a 22LR pistol. Alternatively, some guns like a Glock or 1911 have 22 LR conversion kits that allow you to change out the slide and shoot 22 for a fraction of the cost. Those kits retail for $350 but you can find them on the secondary market for much less and there's no need for an FFL for the conversion kit. Shooting a 22 is nothing like the Service pistols (9mm, 40SW, 45, 10mm) but you can learn the basics.
However, only you know your commitment to training, your budget for a gun, your budget for ammo, your time and money for training and practice. Determine a budget of how much you will spend on a gun AND accessories such as a holster, lock, magazines, sights, whatever. Try renting different 9mm pistols at a range. Go shoot with some friends and see why they like their particular gun or why they hate it. Some guns have magazines that cost more than others. Don't fall into the trap of capacity when it comes to magazines.
iPad/Tapatalk
Personally I would look for a used second or third generation Glock 19 or 17 from summitgunbroker.com or budsgunshop.com. You can score one for under $400, they are simple, reliable and you won't spend valuable learning time screwing around with them.
Focus on learning and training instead of dicking around with the handgun itself. YMMV.
Blazer guy, you may find this helpful
https://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/concepts/where-do-i-begin
My strongest suggestion is to start with SOMETHING. Getting a gun in your hand and getting to the range to practice and get some instruction is WAY more important than agonizing over the perfect gun. Accept that this will cost money, and that part of that cost *may* be having to sell your first gun to buy a better gun.
Buy a gun. (almost) any gun.
Buy a holster, ammo, and a couple extra magazines
take a class
practice
repeat 2-4 as needed (you may need to repeat #1 if you don't get it right the first time. That's ok)
I agree with others in the thread that the S&W M&P9 with external safety seems to best fit your criteria.
I personally would not recommend a DA/SA gun for the first time handgun shooter. The different weight and length trigger pulls take a fair amount of training to get proficient with, even for the seasoned handgun shooter. The same can be said about a manual safety however. It takes repetitive, and consistent training to subconsciously flip the safety off. I've shot tens of thousands of rounds through my 1911's and I'm sure that I still move my thumb down on a DAO gun to flip off the safety that really isn't there but it takes some time to get to this point. If you are willing to put in the training time then I don't see the external safety to be an issue.
While the Beretta 92 is a very good gun, I dont know if I'd recommend it to a beginner since the controls on it are not as intuitive as other guns that are available and the fact that its DA/SA. If the extral safety is a deal breaker then I'd look into a full sized S&W M&P with an external safety. If you can get past the need for an external safety then the Glock 19 would be another good choice.
one gun can't perform every job perfectly. EVERYONE's first handgun should be a .22. cheap practice to master the fundamentals. once you master the fundamentals with a .22 moving up to larger calibers will be MUCH easier. I'd get a .22 first, then down the road a 9mm of whatever type feels good to you, since again 9mm is the least expensive for recurrent practice and with modern hollow points loads loses little in performance to the larger calibers. Jumping into a .40 or .45 right away often causes shooters to develop bad habits, flinching jerking the trigger or not practicing much due to ammo costs. Once bad habits develop they are very hard to break.
Blazer guy
02-14-12, 08:21
Thank you guys for all of the responses. To give you some back ground i have shot handguns before. My father has an M&P 9, i have put about 400 rounds though it myself, and my mother has Ruger mark 3 and i have shot about 1000 rounds through it. I do not care much for the M&P. After reading all of your responses i think that i am going to drop the need for an external safety. I will also look at striker fired pistols. I am already planning on going to a range and renting a few handguns. I will try to shoot a g19 and an XD and see how i like those.
one gun can't perform every job perfectly. EVERYONE's first handgun should be a .22. cheap practice to master the fundamentals. once you master the fundamentals with a .22 moving up to larger calibers will be MUCH easier. I'd get a .22 first, then down the road a 9mm of whatever type feels good to you, since again 9mm is the least expensive for recurrent practice and with modern hollow points loads loses little in performance to the larger calibers. Jumping into a .40 or .45 right away often causes shooters to develop bad habits, flinching jerking the trigger or not practicing much due to ammo costs. Once bad habits develop they are very hard to break.
I absolutely hate this advice. What is someone who has a perceived need to defend themselves and their family supposed to do in the meantime while they're out there doing all that "mastering"? throw rocks?
I don't think everyone needs to start with a .40 or .45, and in fact wouldn't suggest them, but this antiquated business about "master the .22" has got to go.
RogerinTPA
02-14-12, 09:44
Look into a Glock 19 (Gen 2 or 3) or a S&W M&P9.
You will thank yourself later.
Agreed.
To the OP: If an M&P9, get an Apex hard sear and striker block. I really didn't have an issue with the stock trigger, but adding the Apex parts make a good gun better, with a smooth crisp trigger pull at around 4-4.5lbs. I have Apex parts in all 4 of my M&Ps.
Thank you guys for all of the responses. To give you some back ground i have shot handguns before. My father has an M&P 9, i have put about 400 rounds though it myself, and my mother has Ruger mark 3 and i have shot about 1000 rounds through it. I do not care much for the M&P. After reading all of your responses i think that i am going to drop the need for an external safety. I will also look at striker fired pistols. I am already planning on going to a range and renting a few handguns. I will try to shoot a g19 and an XD and see how i like those.
Glock is defiantly your best bet unless you just really hate the grip, try to give it a fair shake and see if it grows on you if you don't love it straight away. The XD has a less than stellar reputation on this board but they aren't necessarily total crap.
I agree that for an adult mastering a .22 first isn't mandatory and since you're not new to guns anyway then getting a 9mm straight away shouldn't be a problem. My first handgun was a ruger P95. I bought it before I really knew much about pistols other than I had been told rugers were good. I don't think starting with a DA/SA 9mm was much of a hurdle but not having a knowledgeable person to teach me was. Heck I went years before I got any .22 pistols.
XDm. Don't look any further. :-)
It never ceases to amaze me that so many people steer first time buyers to striker-fired pistols. No one asked if the OP is experienced handling guns. No one suggested a safety course. While I understand a Glock/M&P type trigger is easier to master than a DA/SA, they're also easier to make deadly mistakes with. Luckily, it sounds like the OP is familiar with firearms.
Nephrology
02-14-12, 19:28
It never ceases to amaze me that so many people steer first time buyers to striker-fired pistols. No one asked if the OP is experienced handling guns. No one suggested a safety course. While I understand a Glock/M&P type trigger is easier to master than a DA/SA, they're also easier to make deadly mistakes with. Luckily, it sounds like the OP is familiar with firearms.
An idiot with a 5.5lb trigger is still an idiot with a 12lb trigger.
An idiot with a 5.5lb trigger is still an idiot with a 12lb trigger.
Bahahaha. True. I like this
caddishatch
02-14-12, 20:19
I would normally recommend the Glock 19 for someone who is looking at their first handgun. I have 3 of them.
However, my opinion has now changed to a Walther PPQ. This is a very comfortable gun to shoot, very accurate, and is reliable.
I bought one a little over a month ago and now it is my favorite. I would really encourage you to check one out. The guys on this forum who have this gun know what I am talking about.
I have a friend that recently purchased one as his first handgun and he loves it.
Out of the two you mentioned I would choose the Beretta 92FS, Uncle Sam toture tested it twice and it has solidered though conflicts from 1985 to now. It may not be the most easy pistol to conceal but it is rugged and dependable. One of my best friends owns one and I shoot as well with that as I do my Glock 17 RTF2.
I read that back in the late 80's and early 90's when police departments were switch over from revolvers to semi autos that Beretta reps would come in and while giving a demonstation would pour a drinking cup full of fine silica sand on the slide and all over the pistol and then shoot off a full mag with no problems. Contracts were signed soon after in most cases.
rob s this advice has been around for a long time for a good reason- IT WORKS!
I've seen WAY too many inexperienced pistol shots get the latest tactical handguns and shoot them horribly- the fundamentals are best learned with a low recoil low ammo cost gun. I understand the need to dfefend your self- but a center mass 22 is still better than missing with larger calibers. if you see the need for immediate defensive handguns then getting a centerifre of suitable caliber is of course proper, but new shooters shouldn't jump into larger calibers too fast.
rob s this advice has been around for a long time for a good reason- IT WORKS!
I've seen WAY too many inexperienced pistol shots get the latest tactical handguns and shoot them horribly- the fundamentals are best learned with a low recoil low ammo cost gun. I understand the need to dfefend your self- but a center mass 22 is still better than missing with larger calibers. if you see the need for immediate defensive handguns then getting a centerifre of suitable caliber is of course proper, but new shooters shouldn't jump into larger calibers too fast.
been around for a long time = outdated.
OP, you won't be disappointed w the XD or Glock.
WTF dude? Either that's a joke or you just went full retard.
.
No joke, no retard. Think about it. The FBI issues modern internet-approved guns to its SA's. The ones who they send out to Nebraska to spend 8 hours a day looking through boxes of bank records, ceaselessly searching for evidence of white-collar crime.
The SA's they put on the SWAT or Hostage Rescue teams carry -- deep breath -- single stack 1911 pistols in .45 ACP. Those units previously carried my other choice, the Browning HP in 9mm.
So, do you arm yourself with what the bank fraud examiners are issued, OR do you carry what the hi-speed, lo-drag feds carry?
Your choice, your life.
1911 in .45 or Browning HP when the sun goes down and the gangs come out to play.
Op, get a reliable, cheap gun(g19, m&p, and p30 are tops suggested by doc Roberts and MANY professionals). If you want to carry, get one that you can. beretta 92s are very nice for the range, but are very big and heavy. I went out and got a "cool" gun. I wish I got a g19. I shoot them better than my cz with a very very nice SAO trigger. They cost less, and work better with a ton of after market support.
As for the .22 advice. My first pistol is a .40 and I shoot it much better than most people(in general, not here;)) shoot anything else. Why? because I practice. You will learn just as fast with a 9 as a .22, given you dont get scared of the recoil and noise. Look up videos about form, grip, aim, and buy snap-caps(or just dryfire). Take a class and practice your ass off and you will improve very quickly. Once you get serious about shooting, the gun doesnt matter as long as its accurate and reliable. You cant brag about owning a g19, but you can dominate your friends at the range. Being good at something is much more satisfying than buying something.
Im just saying all that cause I was too worried about "being different" and getting a "cool" looking gun. Now I regret it.
So, do you arm yourself with what the bank fraud examiners are issued, OR do you carry what the hi-speed, lo-drag feds carry?
Your choice, your life.
1911 in .45 or Browning HP when the sun goes down and the gangs come out to play.
ok, thats 4 versions of the same line by you I've read this week. LOL. Also, internet approved? you mean extensive testing?
High-speed, loW-drag? Like the best military guys who use glocks? Sure some may 1911's but most use glock that I've seen. Most of the SMEs here use glocks or m&p or hkp30s. What advantage does a 1911 have over a modern pistol when "the chips are down" besides 1/2 the capacity? A good 1911 costs, what $1100 as opposed to $500? $600 buys a LOT of 9mm;)
F-Trooper05
02-15-12, 18:39
Don't feed the troll.
No joke, no retard. Think about it. The FBI issues modern internet-approved guns to its SA's. The ones who they send out to Nebraska to spend 8 hours a day looking through boxes of bank records, ceaselessly searching for evidence of white-collar crime.
The SA's they put on the SWAT or Hostage Rescue teams carry -- deep breath -- single stack 1911 pistols in .45 ACP. Those units previously carried my other choice, the Browning HP in 9mm.
So, do you arm yourself with what the bank fraud examiners are issued, OR do you carry what the hi-speed, lo-drag feds carry?
Your choice, your life.
1911 in .45 or Browning HP when the sun goes down and the gangs come out to play.
I'm going to ignore the ridiculous level of ignorance in your post and address the only semi-valid part of your response.
There are a few (very few in fact) teams that still issue 1911's. They usually tweak the hell out of them to improve reliability for operational purposes. And they are used as a backup to a primary rifle and as there will be other teammates backing you up, capacity of the secondary is not quite as important.
Domestically, I see no need for the larger bullet as a lot of modern 9mm hollow point ammo has excellent terminal ballistics. Overseas, yes, with the required fmj ammo, I do see a bigger hole to be of some benefit for a secondary (I'll still personally take higher capacity).
And it is pretty clear from your posts that your are not a bad ass "hsld" assaulter kicking in doors everyday so your needs have nothing to do with the the FBI HRT team in the example you used.
I'm fine with people carrying any weapon that they are proficient with, even if they choose it for sentimental reasons or because they saw it on some tv show. I am NOT ok with folks like you who preach to people, in this case, far more knowledgeable people, about how your beloved guns are the only options. For a lot of reasons, there are better weapons available for carry nowadays but, unlike you I don't go around preaching to 1911 lovers about how they need to switch to glock because the increase in capacity and reliability make it the only "real" choice to save their lives (NOTE I said I do NOT do this).
Carry what you like as long as you are proficient with that weapon system. I have friends who carry 1911 and I have no doubt that they are prepared for shtf. Do I think there are better options? Yes. Do we discuss our opinions with one another? Yes. Do we push absolute judgments on others based on what we like? No, we leave that crap for simpler minds.
I wrote this because I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not really trolling. Hopefully that is the case.
I'm going to ignore the ridiculous level of ignorance in your post and address the only semi-valid part of your response.
There are a few (very few in fact) teams that still issue 1911's. They usually tweak the hell out of them to improve reliability for operational purposes. And they are used as a backup to a primary rifle and as there will be other teammates backing you up, capacity of the secondary is not quite as important.
Domestically, I see no need for the larger bullet as a lot of modern 9mm hollow point ammo has excellent terminal ballistics. Overseas, yes, with the required fmj ammo, I do see a bigger hole to be of some benefit for a secondary (I'll still personally take higher capacity).
And it is pretty clear from your posts that your are not a bad ass "hsld" assaulter kicking in doors everyday so your needs have nothing to do with the the FBI HRT team in the example you used.
I'm fine with people carrying any weapon that they are proficient with, even if they choose it for sentimental reasons or because they saw it on some tv show. I am NOT ok with folks like you who preach to people, in this case, far more knowledgeable people, about how your beloved guns are the only options. For a lot of reasons, there are better weapons available for carry nowadays but, unlike you I don't go around preaching to 1911 lovers about how they need to switch to glock because the increase in capacity and reliability make it the only "real" choice to save their lives (NOTE I said I do NOT do this).
Carry what you like as long as you are proficient with that weapon system. I have friends who carry 1911 and I have no doubt that they are prepared for shtf. Do I think there are better options? Yes. Do we discuss our opinions with one another? Yes. Do we push absolute judgments on others based on what we like? No, we leave that crap for simpler minds.
I wrote this because I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not really trolling. Hopefully that is the case.
Golf clap everybody as this was the post of the day. :neo:
varoadking
02-16-12, 18:17
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg
Well played...
WTF dude? Either that's a joke or you just went full retard.
OP - I'll be honest, I have no experience with the fnx. As far as beretta goes, im not a big fan, especially for a beginning shooter. But despite any of that, you are going down the wrong path. As others have suggested, try out various guns before making any decisions. Honestly a basic pistol class with a good instructor (and a pistol rental) will give you a ton of information with which you will be able to make a much more informed decision. Seriously, slow down. I know it's tough to do when you've got your heart set on punching the buy button but it will benefit you in the long run. Good luck.
Yeah, what he said. Don't mean to be short, but an open question like that soon turns into an personal opinion poll. (I had "dick contest" written, but thought better of it.) "Rent the wall" and buy what works for you.
Edited and deleted because I responded to PhilM's post to clarify some thoughts but may have misinterperated who his post was directed towards. Choose to delete since the explanation of that was getting to be as long as the post. :)
Sorry sboza for the misunderstanding. The "open question" I was referring to was the beginning of the thread and I was agreeing with your thoughts on obtaining instruction and trying different platforms before hitting the "buy" button.
Littlelebowski
02-16-12, 21:37
No joke, no retard. Think about it. The FBI issues modern internet-approved guns to its SA's. The ones who they send out to Nebraska to spend 8 hours a day looking through boxes of bank records, ceaselessly searching for evidence of white-collar crime.
The SA's they put on the SWAT or Hostage Rescue teams carry -- deep breath -- single stack 1911 pistols in .45 ACP. Those units previously carried my other choice, the Browning HP in 9mm.
So, do you arm yourself with what the bank fraud examiners are issued, OR do you carry what the hi-speed, lo-drag feds carry?
Your choice, your life.
1911 in .45 or Browning HP when the sun goes down and the gangs come out to play.
But SEALs carry SIGs! And HK45cs! Which commando do I want to emulate?! Since Delta and SF carry Glocks, that makes them bank fraud examiners, right?
You need to rethink your uninformed, silly, and emotionally based reasoning. I'm going to continue to ridicule it until you stop spewing nonsense.
Sorry sboza for the misunderstanding. The "open question" I was referring to was the beginning of the thread and I was agreeing with your thoughts on obtaining instruction and trying different platforms before hitting the "buy" button.
I figured it out on my second read so it was actually my bad. That's what I get for posting from my phone :).
1911 in .45 or Browning HP when the sun goes down and the gangs come out to play.
I step out for a bit only to return to see he's still at it....
Failure2Stop
02-16-12, 23:33
What pistol should I buy for practical use?
(originally posted at http://www.f2sconsulting.com/What_pistol_should_I_buy.html )
A frequent question posed to individuals like me, gunstore employees, and on the internet revolve around the initial purchase of a defensive of practical use pistol. By this I am talking about a pistol that is intended to protect the safety of ones self or loved ones. I am not talking about "game" guns or hunting pistols, there are others far more qualified than me to discuss these topics. However, if you are shopping for a pistol for practical use, here is what I recommend:
Ignore minutia.
There are highly skilled users that have highly evolved preferences that make enough of a difference in their performance to seek specific options or features. These preferences will most likely not make much of a difference to the practical user, and in some cases may be detrimental. There are also numerous internet "experts" that have formed strong preferences based off of reading the opinons of specific experts and not off of individual experience. While the opinions of subject matter experts are certainly valuable (otherwise I argue myself into irrelevance as well), the direct experience of the expert is what makes it pertinent. The knowledge and performance behind the words are what makes the information worth paying attention to.
Upgrade critical parts early, and preference parts after experience.
Critical parts for immediate upgrade is a short list; sights and hand dominance parts. Very few pistols come from the factory with acceptable sights. I have a few sights that I use as "go-to" solutions. I can't say that they are always the "best of the best", but I can say that they work for practical use, which is a balance of speed and precision.
Most pistols are configured for right-handed shooters, with a few truly ambidexterous options. Left handed shooters should replace parts as necessary to ensure positive manipulation with the primary shooting hand. It is rare that a slide stop can be switched to the opposite side of the pistol, but other options such as magazine releases and safeties/decockers frequently can, and should be switched to support the dominant hand.
Keep support equipment in mind when purchasing a pistol.
Support equipment includes magazines, replacement/spare parts, holsters, magazine pouches, and ammunition.
There are some really neat pistols that come to market each year, all of them promising to be the next best thing, and many of them do hold the potential to excel. The problem is that new designs usually do not have a simultaneous release of support equipment. The "next best gun" is of little use if the user cannot carry it, shoot it, or fix it when it breaks. Breakage is a very real concern, even for those weapons that promise infallability. Every mechanical item will eventually fail. Every pistol will eventually break. It may happen at 2,000 rounds or at 200,000, but it will eventually happen. I recommend that a user do some research and figure out what parts have the highest failure occurrence, keep a replecement on hand, and know how to replace it. Those pistols that have a high acceptance rate by police departments will have more support gear available, as will older designs with high ownership.
So, what pistol should I get?
The easiest answer, and the one I recommend is this:
Buy a Gen3 G19, 5 mags, good holster that fits your use, a decent mounted light (I prefer the X300), 2 belt pouches, 5,000 rounds of decent practice ammo, and swap the sights for a good set (I personally like Warren's and Heinie, but there are other very good options).
Attend 2 classes from well-regarded trainers and shoot all of your training ammo before considering a platform swap.
It will give you an excellent fundamental base and reference for advancement.
No, I don't think that the G19 is the be-all, end-all when it comes to pistols, but they are easy to fix, easy to find accessories for, well documented, wide spread, well known, and since they are so popular, if you do decide to go to another platform it will be very easy to sell the pistol and accessories without giving it away.
loganp0916
02-16-12, 23:48
What pistol should I buy for practical use?
(originally posted at http://www.f2sconsulting.com/What_pistol_should_I_buy.html )
A frequent question posed to individuals like me, gunstore employees, and on the internet revolve around the initial purchase of a defensive of practical use pistol. By this I am talking about a pistol that is intended to protect the safety of ones self or loved ones. I am not talking about "game" guns or hunting pistols, there are others far more qualified than me to discuss these topics. However, if you are shopping for a pistol for practical use, here is what I recommend:
Ignore minutia.
There are highly skilled users that have highly evolved preferences that make enough of a difference in their performance to seek specific options or features. These preferences will most likely not make much of a difference to the practical user, and in some cases may be detrimental. There are also numerous internet "experts" that have formed strong preferences based off of reading the opinons of specific experts and not off of individual experience. While the opinions of subject matter experts are certainly valuable (otherwise I argue myself into irrelevance as well), the direct experience of the expert is what makes it pertinent. The knowledge and performance behind the words are what makes the information worth paying attention to.
Upgrade critical parts early, and preference parts after experience.
Critical parts for immediate upgrade is a short list; sights and hand dominance parts. Very few pistols come from the factory with acceptable sights. I have a few sights that I use as "go-to" solutions. I can't say that they are always the "best of the best", but I can say that they work for practical use, which is a balance of speed and precision.
Most pistols are configured for right-handed shooters, with a few truly ambidexterous options. Left handed shooters should replace parts as necessary to ensure positive manipulation with the primary shooting hand. It is rare that a slide stop can be switched to the opposite side of the pistol, but other options such as magazine releases and safeties/decockers frequently can, and should be switched to support the dominant hand.
Keep support equipment in mind when purchasing a pistol.
Support equipment includes magazines, replacement/spare parts, holsters, magazine pouches, and ammunition.
There are some really neat pistols that come to market each year, all of them promising to be the next best thing, and many of them do hold the potential to excel. The problem is that new designs usually do not have a simultaneous release of support equipment. The "next best gun" is of little use if the user cannot carry it, shoot it, or fix it when it breaks. Breakage is a very real concern, even for those weapons that promise infallability. Every mechanical item will eventually fail. Every pistol will eventually break. It may happen at 2,000 rounds or at 200,000, but it will eventually happen. I recommend that a user do some research and figure out what parts have the highest failure occurrence, keep a replecement on hand, and know how to replace it. Those pistols that have a high acceptance rate by police departments will have more support gear available, as will older designs with high ownership.
So, what pistol should I get?
The easiest answer, and the one I recommend is this:
Buy a Gen3 G19, 5 mags, good holster that fits your use, a decent mounted light (I prefer the X300), 2 belt pouches, 5,000 rounds of decent practice ammo, and swap the sights for a good set (I personally like Warren's and Heinie, but there are other very good options).
Attend 2 classes from well-regarded trainers and shoot all of your training ammo before considering a platform swap.
It will give you an excellent fundamental base and reference for advancement.
No, I don't think that the G19 is the be-all, end-all when it comes to pistols, but they are easy to fix, easy to find accessories for, well documented, wide spread, well known, and since they are so popular, if you do decide to go to another platform it will be very easy to sell the pistol and accessories without giving it away.
Good post. If I were able to buy my first handgun right now, it would be a g19.
The G19 is a great first pistol. As was mentioned before, if you decide to sell it later on for something else you wont lose much money doing so. That's one thing I like about a Glock, I'm not afraid to buy a used one.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.