New member looking for some info [Archive]

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StealthscrapE

02-14-12, 00:20

Hey everyone, new member. I've been stalking around your website for a couple of weeks and decided to join since there seems to be a wealth of knowledge here. I came across your website on my search for m4 style carbines and being on the fence of whether to build one or buy one. I don't want anything super extravagant and I will be on a tight budget since the wife is laying down the law.

Anyways, like I said, I've been reading around a lot and I will try to avoid asking repetitive questions about stuff that I've already found through searching.

To start off, I'm in the military, and with the new unit I am in, I really don't ever get to fire anymore so that is one of the main reasons I began this search. I miss my time with my weapon.

My first and most important question; is it more worth it to build a rifle, or just use my S&W Nation's Finest discount and change out a few things when money allows? This is probably not likely for me to do as I would really like to experience building a rifle, but seems important to ask.

The rest of my questions involve building. I know some items I want, and some things that I am still new to in the terms of building a rifle and which companies are the most reputable. Looks like I will try to stick with Daniel Defense and BCM for much of my parts. So here are some questions I haven't been able to dig up on your site (most of them relate to my limited knowledge of the NFA):

-Am I required to submit the ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm if I do a rifle build, or is that just for people utilizing suppressors and such for their builds?
-What is the shortest barrel length I can have for my rifle without the extra tax stamps? I would like to do a 14.5" barrel, but am on the fence.
-What are the benefits and disadvantages of a free float system opposed to the alternative?
-I want to use a low profile gas block with rails that cover that portion. I will be initially using Magpul MBUS flip sights (or similar) until I get some rounds through it and comfortable with it (and of course, can afford it). At that point I'll add some sort of optics system, where the MBUS will become a back-up. Can I buy a barrel without the gas block/sight, or will I have to remove that and add a low profile my self?
-Is the lower receiver the only part that I will need an FFL transfer for (assuming I don't buy local?

Those are my main questions to start. I'm sure I will have 100 to follow, but I will be sure to search and find as much as I can without bothering you all with redundant questions. Thanks to those of you who took the time to read through this. A bit more info below. Any recommendations are more than welcome.

Military member living in Northern Virginia.
Planning on trying to use military discounts as much as possible.
Prefer to purchase BCG complete so I do not have to stake it myself.
I plan on using mostly Magpul accessories for grip, stock, magazines, etc.
First attempt at building a rifle. My experience is limited to field stripping and cleaning various weapons including the M4.
I want to be able to fire 5.56 NATO and .223
Will mostly be a plinker, also possible personal/home defense.
Any other questions, let me know. Thanks again.

Evil Colt 6920

02-14-12, 00:55

Lots of questions... You have a long way to go and a lot of reading to do. I will answer a few ?'s for you out of boredom. All of this I have learned myself from this site. You MUST search and read more or you can expect NO help from other members in the future. Most likely whatever you want to know can be found using the search button.

You do not have to file any NFA paper work for a standard build. Just buy a lower and build away.
Barrels less than 16" need NFA paper work unless flash hider is pinned(dont go there IMO)
Free float barrels allow for better accuracy.
Barrels can be bought with or without gas blocks installed. The best low profile gas block is a pinned front sight thats been cut/grinded down.
A lower receiver is considered a firearm and will need to ship to an FFL for transfer.

That should get you started, PLEASE do some research when more questions arise. SEARCH and READ around on this site, it will be worth your time, trust me.

polymorpheous

02-14-12, 01:12

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920.aspx

Travis B

02-14-12, 07:49

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920.aspx

That is probably one of your best bets. Sit back for a few more weeks, SEARCH and READ! You seem to be a bit behind in the AR knowledge department but every question you asked has been addressed, mostly ad nauseum. Go with a ready-built rifle, preferably a Colt 6920, and use that orange "SEARCH" button at the top.

Good luck!

StealthscrapE

02-14-12, 09:11

Thank you guys for your responses. I apologize for asking questions that have already been asked. I have been reading your site immensely and have been searching to the best of my ability. I will keep the colt you mentioned as an option, though I would much prefer to build this one.

Evil colt, why do you recommend staying away from the pinned flash hider on a shorter barrel? Also I did come across the front sight ground down before, but the method I saw involved removing the sight beforehand which would involve re-pinning. Didn't think of doing it while attached to the barrel.

Thanks again, and I'll keep reading and try to stay out of everyone's hair.

globeguy

02-14-12, 09:36

Evil colt, why do you recommend staying away from the pinned flash hider on a shorter barrel?

As you shoot your AR more you will want to change certain things on it to fit your style. Having a pinned flash hider will limit your options when modding your rifle in the future.

Cesiumsponge

02-14-12, 09:37

If you're on a budget, save a little longer. In fact, save a lot longer. Most folks that go for a budget rifle regret it if they put serious rounds downrange. If you shoot it a few times a year, it doesn't matter. If you want something reliable with a proven track record, it'll cost a little more. Don't just save enough for the rifle. Get an assload of ammo too. No point buying a rifle without budgeting ammo. Who buys a car without the budget for gas?

Most folks including myself recommend buying turnkey first. Don't build or start bolting crap on until you figure out what works for your rifle's role, your needs, and your physiology. You're going to end up with a box of parts that didn't work out. No one gets it right the first time around, and being on a budget makes this an expensive and slow process.

polymorpheous

02-14-12, 09:37

why do you recommend staying away from the pinned flash hider on a shorter barrel?

This limits your options.
When you shoot the gun enough to know what you want for it, you may find you want a freefloated handguard, perhaps a different muzzle device.
Maybe you even want to extend the handguard out past the gas block.

Permanently pinning a muzzle device will prevent you for accomplishing any of this.

The Colt 6920 I link above is a good base for you to work off of.
Forget about the extra 1.5"
Get yourself a solid performer, shoot the piss out of it, and take a class or two.

Good luck!

Travis B

02-14-12, 09:37

why do you recommend staying away from the pinned flash hider on a shorter barrel?

Thanks again, and I'll keep reading and try to stay out of everyone's hair.

If you're unsure about what flash hider/rail set up you want on a custom build, don't pin it. Once it's pinned it's on there for good. You can't change rails, etc if it's pinned on there.

You're most definitely welcome on this site! Just keep reading and searching, and then do the asking.

Battle*Hound

02-14-12, 09:39

I am one who likes to tinker with things. With that being said, I have built one AR so far. I completely enjoyed shopping for all the different parts and then seeing the whole thing come together.

I say BUILD IT.

polymorpheous

02-14-12, 09:41

Travis B

02-14-12, 09:44

1st post.
Off to a bad start.

It is ill advised to build your 1st AR.

I built my first one, with the help of a gunsmith friend. If you don't have access to the tools or the knowledge, buy your first one.

Battle*Hound

02-14-12, 09:50

Battle*Hound

02-14-12, 09:53

1st post.
Off to a bad start.

It is ill advised to build your 1st AR.

Again, it's all opinions. :)

Cesiumsponge

02-14-12, 09:56

Also, I couldn't agree more with the guys talking about doing the research on your own. There is nothing wrong with asking questions but until you gain enough knowledge to attain an opinion of your own, you'll only be following the opinions of others. Maybe they know what's best - maybe not. Although I am a new member, I have been reading on this site since about early 2009. I didn't build until late 2010. This is the location for 'valid' info but there is an awful lot to take in.
Good Luck

You spent over a year researching. That is commendable but not typical. Most folks who chose to build or assemble their first AR end up with a box of crap that didn't end up working out because something that "looked cool" inspired them to drop a was of cash.

ryan

02-14-12, 09:59

Being that you are in Virginia, I say give Robb Jensen at Virginia Arms a call.

Iraqgunz

02-14-12, 10:15

To the OP,

Your original post is actually very jumbled and goes in different directions. Your goal of seeking a good carbine/rifle has nothing to do with NFA laws (as I understood your post). So it's obvious you are mixing stuff up.

There is nothing here that is ground breaking or revolutionary and nothing we tell you is going to make you change your mind. You have already made a selection of parts without explaining why or what advantage it will give you.

Get a Colt 6920. Buy some ammuntion, magazines, sling and cleaning kit. Practice and seek out training. That will make you more formidable then some hobbled together build.

RogerinTPA

02-14-12, 10:16

Unless you really have an itch to scratch as far as building a weapon you may not have built correctly, then trying to sell it on EE after not being able to debug it when it becomes a jammamatic, just buy a quality built production gun from Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM or LMT an save you some ass pain.

StealthscrapE

02-14-12, 10:48

Being that you are in Virginia, I say give Robb Jensen at Virginia Arms a call.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of his posts/threads and the fact that he has been around this site for a long time and in the firearms industry even longer. Definitely plan on talking to him in the future, especially since Manassas is right down the road.

Also, just to clarify, I don't consider this my first AR necessarily. I do have quite a bit of experience with my service M4 with thousands of rounds through (that's not mentioning my other firearms I have owned). I have no qualms admitting that I never disassembled the lower or removed my barrel or other more technical aspects of building an AR but I am confident, that with my experience and information located here and elsewhere, that I wil be able to accomplish a good build. And not something that just looks cool and has lights and lasers and flames painted on the sides.

But, again I will keep the colt mentioned in mind as a complete platform that I can later add to as I see fit for my needs. I don't want to limit my options right at the onset.

To the OP,

Your original post is actually very jumbled and goes in different directions. Your goal of seeking a good carbine/rifle has nothing to do with NFA laws (as I understood your post). So it's obvious you are mixing stuff up.

There is nothing here that is ground breaking or revolutionary and nothing we tell you is going to make you change your mind. You have already made a selection of parts without explaining why or what advantage it will give you.

Get a Colt 6920. Buy some ammuntion, magazines, sling and cleaning kit. Practice and seek out training. That will make you more formidable then some hobbled together build.

The NFA laws aspect applied to my lack of knowledge if I would need a form 1 to build a rifle and what the minimum barrel size I can use in a build without filing applications. I also thought that not having the fixed front sight/gas block fell into NFA rules as well because the sites I was looking at them at all mentioned NFA rules whenever they were not attached, or said "Front sight gas block included per NFA rules." I believe now that those statements were due to barrel length and not related to the gas block itself. So what am I mixing up exactly?

I was making an initial attempt at gathering information I could not find so I felt it was unnecessary at that point to explain my selection of parts. First off, none of my "selection of parts" is anything set in stone. The free float system was a generalized question because I do not know a lot in regards to the differences of them. In terms of stating that I would probably stick with DD or BCM for many of my parts, well, they seem to be very reputable around these parts and in a quite affordable range. For example, the BCM BCG seems to be well made, well priced, and well supported on M4C. It has proper staking and I have not read about any issues people have had with it. Mostly it was to passively statement that I will be staying away from Del-ton, RRA, and a few others that I have read about since finding this site. With my choice of Magpul parts, I have used a few of them on my service M4 and I was very happy with them. I also know that I am not very fond of the standard collapsible stock and the way my cheek rests against it when it is extended. I like the style in the Magpul UBR where the cheek-weld is stationary, but the lower portion extends and collapses. I want to use a low profile gas block, because as I said, I would like to use some sort of folding front and rear sights and again the Magpul MBUS system seems very nice (as well as troy and a couple of others). I plan on continuing to use them as a back up system when the time comes to add an optic to the rifle, again, like my service rifle.

I know people's tones can get lost in the internet, so just to clarify, I am not trying to be argumentative. I am just clarifying what I had said originally and responding to your (ond others') comments.

Cheers.

Travis B

02-14-12, 11:54

60buckscash

02-14-12, 16:24

For my first gun I built the lower and bought a complete upper. If you are looking to build and are newer to the game then I would encourage you to go that route. BCM sells solid mostly assembled uppers and are a good place to start. For assembling your lower half there is a great set of videos on Brownels that can walk you through it all.

Evil Colt 6920

02-14-12, 22:06

I know the idea of building your first ever AR may sound more appealing to you, but unless you are a gunsmith or well versed with the AR platform it is not the way to go. Many people have advised that you buy a complete quality rifle rather than build your first AR. The "opinions" of these people should not be taken lightly. They know what they are talking about. You will end up with more than one AR I promise. This hobby is like crack and one smoke wont keep you happy. Buy your first AR, something quality. Then when you want another and decide to build it, you already know what real quality is and have something to strive for with your build.

StealthscrapE

02-15-12, 10:38

I would avoid the magpul rear BUIS and lean towards a Matech. They lock p nicely, have a great sight picture and are a small, durable package. For the front I've always had a FSB so I can't really help you there.

Yeah, I've used the Matech in training and a bit in the field. I just wish that the inside of the dish/cup/divot/whatever you want to call it was more of a matte finish. Maybe it was just mine, but the glossy finish and the way the light hit it and reflected off at certain angles bothered me quite a bit a times. Is there a reason that you recommend avoiding the magpul, or is it just more that you recommend the Matech over the Magpul?

For my first gun I built the lower and bought a complete upper. If you are looking to build and are newer to the game then I would encourage you to go that route. BCM sells solid mostly assembled uppers and are a good place to start. For assembling your lower half there is a great set of videos on Brownels that can walk you through it all.

I've been considering that. The most hesitant part of taking the plunge for the build is things related to the upper.

I know the idea of building your first ever AR may sound more appealing to you, but unless you are a gunsmith or well versed with the AR platform it is not the way to go. Many people have advised that you buy a complete quality rifle rather than build your first AR. The "opinions" of these people should not be taken lightly. They know what they are talking about. You will end up with more than one AR I promise. This hobby is like crack and one smoke wont keep you happy. Buy your first AR, something quality. Then when you want another and decide to build it, you already know what real quality is and have something to strive for with your build.

I appreciate the input, and it may be the route I go. I'm leaving most of the options on the table at this point. Whatever I do, it's not going to be tomorrow. I still have a ton of reading to do. I know that building an AR is the riskier route and that it's advised not to do it with your first one. That advice definitely isn't falling on deaf ears. I respect the knowledge of the members here and am taking it to heart. When you say that I will end up with more than one AR, I can only hope. But it's unlikely for me as my wife doesn't see the need for multiple guns, doesn't view guns as a hobby/sport, and doesn't see any need for an AR for home defense. It's taken me 5 years to convince her that I'm getting another gun. She didn't grow up with them, doesn't like them a whole lot or feel comfortable with them, and pretty much refuses to take any courses involving them. But I digress.....
Because of that this will most likely be my only AR, at least for a long while. I will continue searching around here and taking in advice and input and make my decision when the time is right. Thanks again.

Travis B

02-15-12, 14:42

The Matechs I own aren't shiny. I wouldn't really want to use something for iron sights made of plastic.

J_Dub_503

02-15-12, 17:26

StealthscrapE

02-15-12, 20:07

If you're on a budget, building is a contradiction...That is unless you have access to all the numerous tools to do the build. I would suggest buying a BCM blem lower from G&R Tactical and the upper/bolt/charging handle of your choice from G&R or BravoCompanyUSA.

I agree that it does seem that way. I have been looking at the blems on both of those sites. The main benefit with building is that I can buy certain parts at different times when money allows. I know in the same regard I can just save that same money and purchase a complete rifle at that point. The other benefit is that I can add the parts that I want instead of having to change them at a later time and hearing from the wife "your gun already has a stock/grip/handguards, etc". I already go through this with my motorcycle everytime, ie "your bike already has exhaust, why do you need a new one?"

J_Dub_503

02-15-12, 20:59

I agree that it does seem that way. I have been looking at the blems on both of those sites. The main benefit with building is that I can buy certain parts at different times when money allows. I know in the same regard I can just save that same money and purchase a complete rifle at that point. The other benefit is that I can add the parts that I want instead of having to change them at a later time and hearing from the wife "your gun already has a stock/grip/handguards, etc". I already go through this with my motorcycle everytime, ie "your bike already has exhaust, why do you need a new one?"

I understand what your saying however, the way I suggested isn't far off from building a complete rifle. If you order the BCM blem lower the only parts you usually replace are the stock, pistol grip, and the trigger (it comes with the Magpul enhanced trigger guard.) If you want to replace them, take them off in the parking lot of your local FFL...the wife will never know.

As for a bare bones upper, the only parts that you'd normally want to change are a fsb/gas block and a muzzle device. The BCG and the Charging handle are purchased separately so there's nothing to upgrade there.

All in all there's not much difference at all. If you chooses to go this route, order the blem lower first...pick it up from your FFL. Next up is the naked upper. The rest can be ordered part by part same as if you were to build. By the time you've completed your rifle the only things you will have replaced will likely be the A2 grip and the M4 Stock.

StealthscrapE

02-15-12, 21:18

I understand what your saying however, the way I suggested isn't far off from building a complete rifle. If you order the BCM blem lower the only parts you usually replace are the stock, pistol grip, and the trigger (it comes with the Magpul enhanced trigger guard.) If you want to replace them, take them off in the parking lot of your local FFL...the wife will never know.

As for a bare bones upper, the only parts that you'd normally want to change are a fsb/gas block and a muzzle device. The BCG and the Charging handle are purchased separately so there's nothing to upgrade there.

All in all there's not much difference at all. If you chooses to go this route, order the blem lower first...pick it up from your FFL. Next up is the naked upper. The rest can be ordered part by part same as if you were to build. By the time you've completed your rifle the only things you will have replaced will likely be the A2 grip and the M4 Stock.

Good info. Thank you. I will take a good look at going that route. Appreciate all of the input I've gotten here so far. As well as all of the info I'm still learning every hour it seems like just browsing through the site.

If you want to replace them, take them off in the parking lot of your local FFL...the wife will never know.

:secret:

Locutus

02-15-12, 21:39

I bought a BCM blem lower and the money saved allowed me to buy a cold hammer forged upper. :)

Travis B

02-15-12, 22:17

I bought a BCM blem lower and the money saved allowed me to buy a cold hammer forged upper. :)

I bought a lightly used Noveske lower from the EE and saved a lot as well. Shop around and it'll pay off.

FredBart

02-17-12, 20:11

I am new to the AR world, so if I may offer a suggestion, buy the Brownells DVD that shows how to build an AR series rifle. The presenter is a former military armorer that explains the entire process. He shows the tools and procedures required.

The DVD is on sale now for $ 20 plus small package shipping from Brownells. The title is "How to Build an AR". The item number is 080-000-587. It is 130 minutes long.

After watching it a few times, I ordered a complete factory assembled rifle from one of the recommended brands mentioned often here.

Good Luck.

StealthscrapE

06-25-12, 19:58

Hey everyone, sorry for reviving an old thread, but since it was my thread and this is possibly the next step in my journey, I figured I would add it here.

I've still been doing my research and sitting by reading all of the posts here. I decided after more research from my first post that I was going to purchase my AR instead of build as I was advised by some of the members here. I was pretty set on a Daniel Defense. I like their product, it seems reliable around the forum here, and they offer a pretty nice military price. Today a deal popped up for a Colt MOE (LE6720MP-FDE (http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtCarbinesII.aspx)) on (not sure if I can link to it from here or if it is a welcome site) KY gun co. It's a deal of the week so I don't want to miss out on it, but I don't want to jump the gun and not be 100% satisfied. It would be about $300 cheaper than the DD M4 I am looking at here (https://danieldefense.com/rifles/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-lw.html), but that doesn't come with any sights.

Just wondering if anyone has any opinion. If I am allowed to link to the other one, I'll link for more info.

I know both of these manufacturers are highly regarded here, so wanted to see if anyone has any experience that would sway from one to the other. Thanks in advance for any input.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that I would like to future proof it for a possible sight down the road and don't know how well that will mount with the colt set up the way it is with the fixed front sight post and small rail section.

polymorpheous

06-25-12, 20:06

StealthscrapE

06-25-12, 20:37

I'd buy the Colt and use the saved $300 on a case of ammo.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Colt.
BTW, is I a model 6920MP? You stated that it is a 6720MP, which I am not aware that they make.
Either way, snap it up while it is on sale.

Yeah, I was confused by that as well. The site definitely says 6720, which was part of my reluctance. Not sure if that is a lower model rifle or not. That was one of the questions I forgot to ask. This is the model number it shows: (And I have never seen "LT" either)
Manufacturer Number LT6720MPFDE

But it looks identical to the LE6920MP-FDE that is listed on the colt webpage I linked to previously.

Split66

06-25-12, 20:39

If you can get a deal on the colt jump on it, buy the ammo like Polymorpheous said and shoot the piss out of it! Then shoot it some more........

The 6720 is also a high quality gun, its just the lightweight version of the standard Colt LEM4. It can easily be identified by its thin ( pencil ) barrel vs the 6920 with the M4 profile barrel and M203 cut. AFAIK they do not make a Magpul version of the 6720 ( as stated above ) so you are probably looking at buying the 6920.

Here is a link to G&R tactical 6720 so you can compare. Grant has a good price and this carbine also comes highly recommended.......

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720

Iraqgunz

06-25-12, 21:14

Maybe that dealer put Magpul furniture on a 6720 and then gave it their own name? In any case it's been 4 months and I would pull the trigger now before the real shenanigans breaks loose.

StealthscrapE

06-25-12, 22:07

Maybe that dealer put Magpul furniture on a 6720 and then gave it their own name? In any case it's been 4 months and I would pull the trigger now before the real shenanigans breaks loose.

That's what I'm beginning to think. And starting to wonder if it is as good of a deal as if it was the standard LE6920mp.

Split66

06-26-12, 00:49

I would pull the trigger now before the real shenanigans breaks loose.

"I swear to god I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says shenanigans!"

:D

ETA: I stand corrected........

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/johnyoung01/aebd72d3.jpg

StealthscrapE

06-26-12, 07:50

"I swear to god I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says shenanigans!"

:D

ETA: I stand corrected........

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/johnyoung01/aebd72d3.jpg

Is that a 6720 in that picture?

So apparently it is a 6720 that the deal is for (if this is the right thing I found. It's in their 2012 catalog on page 38)....

http://www.taloinc.com/images/TLC.jpg

Seeing as they are both colt and that I am not very sure of their differences amongst the models, If you guys were to buy one, would you go with this "Limited Edition" Talo 6720 with the Magpul furniture, or would you pay $50 more for a true LE6920MP(actually the same price since I don't care about the furniture color and can go all black for cheaper)? Sorry for all of the questions, I just don't want to go wrong here. The only differences I can find are that the 6720 is a LW barrel whereas the 6920 is not.

polymorpheous

06-26-12, 08:18

That's the 6720 alright.
Buy it if you can.
I wish I could!:o

StealthscrapE

06-26-12, 08:21

That's the 6720 alright.
Buy it if you can.
I wish I could!:o

Sorry to bump this up again, I posted an edit with a question right after you responded and am curious of everyone's input.

polymorpheous

06-26-12, 08:30

IMO, the lightweight barrel is preferred over the M4 barrel profile.
I say get the 6720.

Gunzilla

06-26-12, 18:07