View Full Version : Yes cop shows suck for gun info, but CSI, OMG!
I have never watched a CSI, but as Im in Panama, not great choices for TV, so I watched a CSI last night.
There's so many of them, don't even know which it was, had Ted Danson it.
Yes, we all know cop shows have terrible gun info, but this was on a level by itself. Do they really have no consultants at all for these shows? I mean my jaw dropped. A few I remember:
Plot based on an SF guy who smuggles some FNP90s to the states. Here we go:
Gun is what's used in Afgan
Guy uses P90 to cut a guy in half to dispose of body! FBI agent says with cycle rate and fire power of the "super gun" it's easy
You can't get the 5.7rnd in the US
It's referred to as a "super gun" various times
If the smuggled P90s get on the street, it's WWIII
That's some of the "facts" that stuck in my head.
Cesiumsponge
02-14-12, 10:49
Google "CSI Effect". It's prevalent enough in culture that its tainting jury pools not just in firearms, but forensics. It doesn't help that a lot of forensic science is not a true science. The results of double-blind tests are especially interesting. One that comes to mind is a test where a subject is subjectd to getting bruised, and having various experts to date the injury. They were all over the map and none were even close to the actual elapsed time.
Sometimes I think that gun manufacturers pay TV producers to use their poor selling weapon systems on shows to drum-up interest. This is very similar to how my local grocery store pays the weatherman to focast a snow storm when their stocks become backlogged. :secret:
Frankly, I don't know which is worse...CSI or Sons of Guns.
Frankly, I don't know which is worse...CSI or Sons of Guns.
From my limited experience with both, I'm voting CSI, but small sample size on my part: 1 CSI, maybe 2-3 Sons of guns. Painful to watch.
I have never watched a CSI, but as Im in Panama, not great choices for TV, so I watched a CSI last night.
There's so many of them, don't even know which it was, had Ted Danson it.
Yes, we all know cop shows have terrible gun info, but this was on a level by itself. Do they really have no consultants at all for these shows? I mean my jaw dropped. A few I remember:
Plot based on an SF guy who smuggles some FNP90s to the states. Here we go:
Gun is what's used in Afgan
Guy uses P90 to cut a guy in half to dispose of body! FBI agent says with cycle rate and fire power of the "super gun" it's easy
You can't get the 5.7rnd in the US
It's referred to as a "super gun" various times
If the smuggled P90s get on the street, it's WWIII
That's some of the "facts" that stuck in my head.
When they referred to shooting the guy in half as "zippering" I threw up in my mouth a little.
When they referred to shooting the guy in half as "zippering" I threw up in my mouth a little.
Was amazing. :rolleyes:
That's too funny that you posted this....that show org. aired awhile back and I caught it then and seriously thought about posting something about the absolute total bullshit it contained in it.
I seriously lost all respect for CSI, and swore it off for good...I'm still amazed at that stupidity featured in that particular episode.
The 5.7 is straight anemic...if it was the new super duper 300blk I would have believed it all:D
I think it is CSI NY where the pathologist has eye glasses that open and close at the bridge of his nose. He is always taking them on and off while gloved up! It drives me nuts. The blood and nastiness that he would have on his hands have no place on his glasses.
Moose-Knuckle
02-14-12, 21:28
Google "CSI Effect". It's prevalent enough in culture that its tainting jury pools not just in firearms, but forensics. It doesn't help that a lot of forensic science is not a true science. The results of double-blind tests are especially interesting. One that comes to mind is a test where a subject is subjectd to getting bruised, and having various experts to date the injury. They were all over the map and none were even close to the actual elapsed time.
This. When I read the thread title I was going to say something along these lines.
Only ever watced one episode. Had a guy shooting a barrett .50 cal indoors with no ear pro and the guy shoots a bank vault open. Wanted to slay myself...
Mauser KAR98K
02-15-12, 01:42
Can't stand the CSI shows. Total crap and made up stuff to get to the twisted ending that "people will talk about forever." It's like a used condom to talk about at the water cooler rodeo when people return to the office.
The one I can't stand: CSI Miami. The main guy just posses, with shitty dialog to go with it. If Trey and Parker did another Team America, they should have him for the next Gary.
Cesiumsponge
02-15-12, 08:59
This sums it up.
http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11237&stc=1&d=1329317764
Frankly, I don't know which is worse...CSI or Sons of Guns.
CSI.
Sons of Guns doesn't produce victim's demanding a search for DNA evidence on a simple vandalism.
Agree, it's surprising the level of misinformation that is spread by these shows. Surely it can't be that hard to hire a consultant, as OP says.
I've come across a few rare exceptions. Here's an example of a movie and a TV show that bothered to do at least SOME research on their firearms:
* Street Kings (starred Keanu Reeves). The carry of a 1911 and a S&W (945, I think?) by Keanu seemed fairly realistic. He trained quite a bit with a consultant before the filming.
* 24. At times the quality of this series was pretty uneven, but it did have some realistic firearms scenes at times. Agent Bauer's use of H&K USP's, and his skills in clearing rooms, etc., often seemed realistic. They also often used real-world top-shelf weapons (at the time), for instance in one scene Jack Bauer uses a SCAR rifle. The thing that would always irk me though, is the almost incredible accuracy that Agent Bauer was able to maintain in firefights.
The thing that would always irk me though, is the almost incredible accuracy that Agent Bauer was able to maintain in firefights.
Rule #1 for guns and TV: good guys can hit what ever they want, when every they want, where ever they want.
Ten bad guys can unleash 10 mini guns at good guy from 10 yards, and hit nothing.
If bad guy is allowed to hit something on good guy, bullet must hit only permissible non life threatening areas of the body, must go clean through, hit no bone nerves, or major blood supply ever. That's the TV good guy/bad guy law and it's as fixed as the laws of thermodynamics.
Buy TV, getting shot in the shoulder is like cutting yourself shaving, bleeds a little, and you are GTG 2 minutes later max.
Moose-Knuckle
02-15-12, 14:44
Agree, it's surprising the level of misinformation that is spread by these shows.
That's half of the problem, the other half is the moronic public who believe anything they see/read/hear not realizing what they are watching is FICTION.
The trigger discipline failures alone on CSI are enough to make you wonder how the actors have never been hit at close range by blanks from ND's. I know some are prop guns but some are working models.
In comparison, and I'm not pushing the show as great writing, but the trigger finger discipline on Criminal Minds is, normally at least, pretty excellent.
Should run off with Wills #1 rule and make a full list.
Rule 1: Good guys hit what they want, where they want, how they want, and when.
Rule 2: Bad guys hit nothing except to dramatically wound with life threatening and fatal injuries reserved for writing off characters and multi-episode story lines (especially at the end of a season).
Rule 3: When bullets are not going to hit the target they intentionally ground them self straight into the ground or the closest object save the target. When aimed right (from a hero most likely, refer to rule 1 & 2) the bullets will no longer strike the ground around the targets feet, nor the wall next to them, but actually hit them in an instantly fatal location.
Rule 4: The head antagonists are entitled to epic showdowns and a great climatic battle before their demise. Lackeys, thugs, henchmen, etc is like a poodle vs a pit bull, they were defeated the second they were shown.
Rule 5: You can tell what gun was used including make, model, caliber, and any customizations by looking at the dead body on the ground.
Rule 6: Bruce Lee killed Chuck Norris, there I said it :secret:
Rule 7: MEs know everything about everything and can think of anything, no one knows why there are detectives other than to be Gofers for MEs.
Moose-Knuckle
02-15-12, 19:57
Rule #8 your local PD's crime scene tech does not look like a supermodel nor do they dress like one!
Rule #8 your local PD's crime scene tech does not look like a supermodel nor do they dress like one!
Well, that's disappointing
Agree, it's surprising the level of misinformation that is spread by these shows. Surely it can't be that hard to hire a consultant, as OP says.
I've come across a few rare exceptions. Here's an example of a movie and a TV show that bothered to do at least SOME research on their firearms:
* Street Kings (starred Keanu Reeves). The carry of a 1911 and a S&W (945, I think?) by Keanu seemed fairly realistic. He trained quite a bit with a consultant before the filming.
* 24. At times the quality of this series was pretty uneven, but it did have some realistic firearms scenes at times. Agent Bauer's use of H&K USP's, and his skills in clearing rooms, etc., often seemed realistic. They also often used real-world top-shelf weapons (at the time), for instance in one scene Jack Bauer uses a SCAR rifle. The thing that would always irk me though, is the almost incredible accuracy that Agent Bauer was able to maintain in firefights.
I think a 4506. That is the OFFICIAL gun of Bad/Dirty Cops.
SWATcop556
02-16-12, 12:46
CSI is the pimple on the ass of my LEO career when dealing with victims of property crimes. I had a lady who wanted me to collect a turd out of her toilet because the guy who broke into her vacation home took a shit while he was commiting the burglary. She came and got me and pointed to the floater and said "What can you do with this Deputy?" I said "This." I reached over and flushed the toilet. She then called and filed a complaint that I did not collect it for DNA. Some people. I can imagine the respone I would get from DPS Crime Lab for filing a shit log.
Southland is the most realistic "fiction" cop show on TV right now IMO.
Justified is just a damn good watch for watching TV's sake.
CSI, Law and Order, and eveything in between can eat a dick.
CSI is the pimple on the ass of my LEO career when dealing with victims of property crimes. I had a lady who wanted me to collect a turd out of her toilet because the guy who broke into her vacation home took a shit while he was commiting the burglary. She came and got me and pointed to the floater and said "What can you do with this Deputy?" I said "This." I reached over and flushed the toilet. She then called and filed a complaint that I did not collect it for DNA. Some people. I can imagine the respone I would get from DPS Crime Lab for filing a shit log.
Southland is the most realistic "fiction" cop show on TV right now IMO.
Justified is just a damn good watch for watching TV's sake.
CSI, Law and Order, and eveything in between can eat a dick.
Haha!! Wow. That's hilarious. Now see if you had Q-tipped a sample and had the crime lab upload it to the National Turd Data Base, I bet you would have had your man within the hour. :no:
They suck moreso for our Liberty than gun info. Getting the sheeple used to the government completely ignoring the 4th amendment.
CSI is the pimple on the ass of my LEO career when dealing with victims of property crimes. I had a lady who wanted me to collect a turd out of her toilet because the guy who broke into her vacation home took a shit while he was commiting the burglary. She came and got me and pointed to the floater and said "What can you do with this Deputy?" I said "This." I reached over and flushed the toilet. She then called and filed a complaint that I did not collect it for DNA. Some people. I can imagine the respone I would get from DPS Crime Lab for filing a shit log.
You did it wrong. You should have told her you need a sample of her fecal DNA so you can rule it out from the fecal DNA database.
:D
SeriousStudent
02-16-12, 22:02
CSI is the pimple on the ass of my LEO career when dealing with victims of property crimes. I had a lady who wanted me to collect a turd out of her toilet because the guy who broke into her vacation home took a shit while he was commiting the burglary. She came and got me and pointed to the floater and said "What can you do with this Deputy?" I said "This." I reached over and flushed the toilet. She then called and filed a complaint that I did not collect it for DNA. Some people. I can imagine the respone I would get from DPS Crime Lab for filing a shit log.
Southland is the most realistic "fiction" cop show on TV right now IMO.
Justified is just a damn good watch for watching TV's sake.
CSI, Law and Order, and eveything in between can eat a dick.
What? No dusting the toilet paper roll for prints? :D
Flushing the benjo - that is worthy of a promotion to LT.
SWATcop556
02-16-12, 22:34
Man she was PISSED when I just flushed it. Then she wanted a swab of the toilet seat since I didn't collect the food baby. I'm sorry but I'm not trying to collect crack sweat for a burglary.
The "elimination sample" is a good idea. She was fired up enough I just let it go.
So the real question is did the Sheriff laugh as loud as I just did or at least grin?
The "elimination sample" is a good idea. She was fired up enough I just let it go.
Ok Mam, I just need you to bend over and I'm going to swab your rectum with a Q tip.
SWATcop556
02-18-12, 10:28
So the real question is did the Sheriff laugh as loud as I just did or at least grin?
Everyone got a kick out of it for sure though I did have a dog turd in a ziplock bag show up on the hood of my car after muster the next day.
I threw the BS flag so many times during the CSI episode in question, my wife asked me to leave the room. I finally showed her a case from a 5.7 (yes, it is legally available in the US - except for the AP load) and a 5.56 case and asked her which one she thought was the round they were talking about on the show. She picked the 5.56 because it was bigger and was shocked to learn the "super" gun actually fired such a small cartridge.
Frickin' Hollywood...
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