View Full Version : Ideas for camping/truck gun suitable for bear?
Just starting to do some research and thought I would ask everyone's opinions. I have always wanted a Win. M94 Trapper; however, I guess I waited too long on purchasing a new one. I have several hunting rifles, AR's and pistols. I'm looking for something to use for camping and woods use in general now that the kids will tag along on these trips. This is what I am wanting:
something relatively short, more than just two or three rounds, capable of South Carolina bear, preferably with peep sights
I was thinking a new Marlin in either 44 mag or 45-70 and having the barrel cut down to 16.5"; however, I have read recently to stay away from new Marlins. I then thought about a youth model bolt action in something like a .308 but was not sure that was enough cartridge. I know a .308 works as my go to hunting caliber; however, thought maybe a little more would be better in a defensive role. My next step was a 12 gauge slug. I thought maybe a Moss. 590 with peep sights and a surefire light (might help find the bump in the night noise).
What do you'll think? Am I right in not considering a new Marlin? What caliber would you'll suggest?
mallowpufft
02-14-12, 19:00
If you can find one a Ruger 10/44 is a sweet little deal. 4+1 in a semi auto .44mag. There are a couple versions. One with a tube and one with a box.
If you want a Marlin look for a used one in either .44 or .35 remington (I love my 336 in .35). I've heard too many horror stories about the new ones.
Then slap a big loop lever and a "bear proof" extractor on it.
Henry & Rossi also make .44 mag lever guns.
Maybe a Remington 870p?
Or just a good old marlin 336 in 30-30. As long as you arent taking on brown or grizzly bears the 30-30 is fine for black bears.
A classic 30-30 in either Winchester model 94 or Marlin 336 would be great, large enough to do the job but minus the punishing recoil.
A 16.5 barrel 45-70 would be interesting to put it mildly. If you did not kill the bear with the bullet you hit him with, it would surely die from the massive burns caused by the flames coming out of that short barrel would produce!:help:
For close range self defense I would get a 12 gauge riot gun at least 5 shots and load 00 buck and slugs for defense.
buckshot1220
02-14-12, 22:35
Last I heard Marlin was owned by Cerberus Capital Management, a company that has done very well at running other firearms manufacturers into the ground. There is also a thread on here about a guy who has gone round and round with Marlin trying get a 45-70 that a.) worked and b.) had decent fit/finish. Do a search if interested as I'm not sure what the final outcome was. Being I have no hands on experience with the newer ones, I am not going to say "Don't buy one", however I would strongly recommend you get it at a brick and mortar where you can check it over well before buying.
That being said, there are some awesome guns out there right now that fit the bill. The Remington Model 7 (not 700) is short and swift, handles nicely and used to be offered with irons (not sure if that is still the case). There is also the Ruger Gunsite rifle, a .308 with detachable box mag and irons, also nice and short though a little heavier due to laminate stock. Also comes with a threaded barrel and rail to mount optics.
As for levers, the Browning BLR is pretty bada$$! I am seriously looking at getting one. It is a takedown lever rifle (easy to pack in/out), with a detachable box mag and a lot of users are reporting accuracy equal to or better than comparable levers and some bolt guns. It is available in 450 Marlin too, as you mentioned wanting a big caliber (I personally will probably go for the .308 though).
Check out this thread:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78538
and this site:
http://www.superiorfirearmsllc.com/
along with other posts from Mr. Smith. He does a lot of awesome work with levers and some of the pics and info may help you make a final a decision.
All of that being said, a shotgun is probably way more versatile (and cheaper to set up for your needs), but levers are just plain cool!
A 16.5 barrel 45-70 would be interesting to put it mildly. If you did not kill the bear with the bullet you hit him with, it would surely die from the massive burns caused by the flames coming out of that short barrel would produce!:help:
I've shot both .45-70 and .444 Marlin out of 16" barrels. It's not all that bad. Handy little guns, we used to call them 'Thumper' rifles. With an enlarged loop, ghost ring sights and/or T1/H1 Micro, they're an awesome brush gun.
I've seen several good suggestions here. Don't hear alot of people talking about .35 Rem. Marlins. I've got one and have had a good deal of success with it. Coincidentally, got it from my uncle in SC. The45-70 or .444 would certainly be adequate for black bear.
Bolt_Overide
02-15-12, 12:21
I love my marlin lever in 45-70, and yah it's a mule kicking, fire belchin, SOB.
I would say if you are concerned with bears, a .308 would be fine. I would use the 165-180 Barnes or a 165-180 Nosler Accubond. Those bullets would be more forgiving if hitting bone, because you may not have the chance to "pick" the perfect spot. Of course they cheapest and effective option is a good old iron sighted 870 with slugs.
Alaskapopo
02-16-12, 01:42
If you can find one a Ruger 10/44 is a sweet little deal. 4+1 in a semi auto .44mag. There are a couple versions. One with a tube and one with a box.
If you want a Marlin look for a used one in either .44 or .35 remington (I love my 336 in .35). I've heard too many horror stories about the new ones.
Then slap a big loop lever and a "bear proof" extractor on it.
Henry & Rossi also make .44 mag lever guns.
I would not trust a .44 mag on big bear unless it was as a last ditch weapon from a holster. If it had a larger magazine more of an argument could be made for it. If your only concern was black bear the .308 would be fine but if your in an area where brown bear also frequent I would not trust it. Not saying you could not kill them with it but I simply don't trust it. Brown bears are big animals and their size when your up close to them will take your breath away.
A Marlin 1895 GBL is my choice with 430 grain cast bullets at 1900 fps. If thats too expensive a good 12 gauge loaded with Breneke slugs is a safe bet.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bolt%20action/MarlinGBL.jpg
Pat
mallowpufft
02-16-12, 02:48
Alaskapopo, I take it you are using yours for brown bear?
If it was brown bear we're talking the 45-70 is unbeatable, especially with a good 1895.
I've seen black bear brought down with 1 round of 30-30 (I'd rather have .35 remington as it's a great east coast brush gun caliber).
For the east coast 45-70 is a bit of overkill. But maybe in an oh, shit, there's a pissed off mama bear it's the best option.
I have dreams of owning an 1895 in 45-70 but until I move off the east coast it's too impractical (for me, personally).
When I'm tooling about the woods I usually have my .41 and I'm confident it will stop anything that threatens me in this neck of the woods.
But I agree with you that if I'm getting an oh shit rifle I'd rather have it in a rifle caliber.
Alaskapopo
02-16-12, 04:00
Alaskapopo, I take it you are using yours for brown bear?
If it was brown bear we're talking the 45-70 is unbeatable, especially with a good 1895.
I've seen black bear brought down with 1 round of 30-30 (I'd rather have .35 remington as it's a great east coast brush gun caliber).
For the east coast 45-70 is a bit of overkill. But maybe in an oh, shit, there's a pissed off mama bear it's the best option.
I have dreams of owning an 1895 in 45-70 but until I move off the east coast it's too impractical (for me, personally).
When I'm tooling about the woods I usually have my .41 and I'm confident it will stop anything that threatens me in this neck of the woods.
But I agree with you that if I'm getting an oh shit rifle I'd rather have it in a rifle caliber.
We have both where I live but the brown bear are what I got the 45-70 for.
Pat
If you can find one a Ruger 10/44 is a sweet little deal. 4+1 in a semi auto .44mag. There are a couple versions.
I passed up on one with a tube, and regret that. Was mint condition and short $$$. I'm an idiot.
Whatever you use, you need to depend on it to stop it from fast and close. You may be in an area that is thick and you "jump" one. I would still carry a .44 revolver as a back up with proper loads.
lifebreath
02-16-12, 07:02
In bear country, I prefer to have some good bear pepper spray in a quick access holster that allows shooting from the hip. The gun wood be good for follow up, but spray is easier to deploy effectively under stress at a charging bear and will stop it.
Edit: it really depends on the activity. I'd want a good rifle to carry in a truck. I'd want the spray if I was backpacking. If I had horses or mules in the back country, I'd take both!
Whats wrong with a 12ga? Your not going to have the range of a rifle if using a pumpkin ball, but it will cause some massive damage.
g-men10455
02-18-12, 13:44
Op asked about the newer Marlin, run away from them! I own a pre-safety 44mag, an older 1894c (great rifles), & a newer 336 model. Every spent case fired out of the 336 has the primer sticking out. Gunbroker is a good source of older firearms.
Averageman
02-18-12, 15:33
If you are wanting an inexpensive multi purpose rifle that 336 in
30-30 is a pretty good place to start.
Lots of available ammo and some recent advances in 30-30 make it much more versitile than it used to be.
I had my brother pick this one up for me while I was in Iraq. The barrel and stock were both damaged, but I wanted a short handy rifle so cutting this one down wasn't an issue.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/336SC001.jpg
It fits right behind the seat of my truck and was a fun project to do.
If you are wanting an inexpensive multi purpose rifle that 336 in
30-30 is a pretty good place to start.
Lots of available ammo and some recent advances in 30-30 make it much more versitile than it used to be.
I had my brother pick this one up for me while I was in Iraq. The barrel and stock were both damaged, but I wanted a short handy rifle so cutting this one down wasn't an issue.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/336SC001.jpg
It fits right behind the seat of my truck and was a fun project to do.
Is that a Ramline stock and forend?
I keep hearing that you can modify the Ramline 336 stock and forend to fit the 1895. Considering how much more any of the other synthetics are for it, I'd like to try that.
Averageman
02-18-12, 19:08
No, the rifle was dropped and the stock was broken and the barrel was damaged.
The rifle stock is not a Ram Line, I did that myself.
The stock was spilt horizontally and a large chip was take out of it. I cut 1 inch of the stock off that was beyond repair and then repaired the rest. upon completing that I realized it would never look right after stripping and staining. I painted it with truck bed liner and went from there.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/336SC006.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/SnowmaninTexas003.jpg
those pictures were taken as I did the work.
Are you hunting with it or just keeping it around in case you need it? If it is a just in case a good 44 mag or 454 cassull long barrel revolver would be easier to keep handy and lighter. And I've seen what the 454 can do to a deer. I'm pretty sure it would deal with SC size bears very well.
Or even a sbr'd draco with folding stock would be pretty easy to carry around.
Ahhh...I was looking at it on the tablet, looked like a synthetic stock.
A Mossberg 590 or Remington 870 loaded with that new Federal high penetration slug would be a great choice, if you are not wanting a long gun that is also good for deer hunting at distance or whatever.
The shotgun would also be a better choice for defense against people than a bolt gun.
A Mossberg 590 or Remington 870 loaded with that new Federal high penetration slug would be a great choice, if you are not wanting a long gun that is also good for deer hunting at distance or whatever.
The shotgun would also be a better choice for defense against people than a bolt gun.
Pretty much what I was thinking.
mkmckinley
02-20-12, 09:53
I just bring my 870 on camping trips and load it with slugs. I've never actually had to shoot a bear but it's been nice to have the option a couple times. I've read that penetration may be an issue with slugs and something like a massaged lever gun from Superior Firearms llc would be the gold standard for dealing with large bear. My wife carries a can of pepper spray as well.
mkmckinley
02-20-12, 09:54
We have both where I live but the brown bear are what I got the 45-70 for.
Pat
Any good bear stories from AK?
It appears that on their website Alaska fish and game even recommend a 12ga (with slugs of course).
Realize that a 12ga foster type slug is probably going to be 1oz which is over 400gr. Velocity is over 2000fps (at the muzzle). So for up close protection, i would feel pretty comfortable with 6-8 slugs in a shotgun. Especially for black bears.
An 870 marine would make a great camp gun, little to no worry about rusting....low maintenance.
Realize that a 12ga foster type slug is probably going to be 1oz which is over 400gr. Velocity is over 2000fps (at the muzzle). So for up close protection, i would feel pretty comfortable with 6-8 slugs in a shotgun. Especially for black bears.
Where are you getting foster slugs that go over 2000 at the muzzle?
Alaskapopo
02-20-12, 16:19
It appears that on their website Alaska fish and game even recommend a 12ga (with slugs of course).
Realize that a 12ga foster type slug is probably going to be 1oz which is over 400gr. Velocity is over 2000fps (at the muzzle). So for up close protection, i would feel pretty comfortable with 6-8 slugs in a shotgun. Especially for black bears.
An 870 marine would make a great camp gun, little to no worry about rusting....low maintenance.
Here are some chono results for slugs I have shot. The Breneke load is a 2 3/4 mag. You are not getting 2000 fps from a shotgun slug, no way.
Shotgun Benelli Breneke Black Magic 2 ¾
1440
Remington reduced recoil
1170
Pat
Sorry, 2000fps is advertised for some Sabot slugs. Even so, i dont think 1400 is anything to laugh at...
Alaskapopo
02-20-12, 17:14
Sorry, 2000fps is advertised for some Sabot slugs. Even so, i dont think 1400 is anything to laugh at...
Ok that makes more sense as those sabots are lighter and from a longer barrel it may be possible. Slugs are ok against bears bears but they are not as good as a larger bore rifle like the 45 70 or .375 H&H. But the shotgun is easier to shoot fast compared to lever action and bolt action rifles.
Pat
Even 3" BRI Sabot's only go 1300-1400 fps. Not sure if any go over 2000.
It hardly matters. If a typical foster were driven that fast, it would break apart and penetrate even less.
The Brenneke or Federal Deep Penetrator is what you'd want.
If they are South Carolina black bear I would suggest a Ruger 10/22.;) Really any med power center fine rifle would be fine. I kill 300lb Blk bears with PPU 223 75 g match.
Averageman
02-20-12, 19:02
But the shotgun is easier to shoot fast compared to lever action and bolt action rifles.
Not in my experiance, the recoil is my main problem with your statement, recoil from a rifle is much more managable in hurried shots than in a pump shotgun.
Alaskapopo
02-20-12, 19:06
If they are South Carolina black bear I would suggest a Ruger 10/22.;) Really any med power center fine rifle would be fine. I kill 300lb Blk bears with PPU 223 75 g match.
I have killed a black bear with a 75 grain TAP round myself but it was out of necessity and not something I recommend as a practice.
Pat
Alaskapopo
02-20-12, 19:08
But the shotgun is easier to shoot fast compared to lever action and bolt action rifles.
Not in my experiance, the recoil is my main problem with your statement, recoil from a rifle is much more managable in hurried shots than in a pump shotgun.
Not in my experience. I had a bear charge me from about 20 feet away and I had that shotgun empty in a matter of seconds. My 45-70 lever gun is much harder to shoot fast due to the greatly increased recoil and the fact a lever is slower to run than a pump.A bolt is even slower yet. If your talking a semi auto rifle then you have a point. In addition to real life experience shooting bears with the shotgun I have also played with all the platforms mentioned at the range with a timer. The pump beats the lever gun and the bolt gun handily.
Pat
But the shotgun is easier to shoot fast compared to lever action and bolt action rifles.
Not in my experiance, the recoil is my main problem with your statement, recoil from a rifle is much more managable in hurried shots than in a pump shotgun.
Not in my experience. I had a bear charge me from about 20 feet away and I had that shotgun empty in a matter of seconds. My 45-70 lever gun is much harder to shoot fast due to the greatly increased recoil and the fact a lever is slower to run than a pump.A bolt is even slower yet. If your talking a semi auto rifle then you have a point. In addition to real life experience shooting bears with the shotgun I have also played with all the platforms mentioned at the range with a timer. The pump beats the lever gun and the bolt gun handily.
Pat
Though I have a couple of Marlin 45-70's, (along with several other big bore levers), for hunting, I'd always thought I'd rather have my 870 if I was being charged by a bear.
Nice to have the guy that's actually done it give an opinion......
1 - what many guides in Alaska carry: 12 guage 3" slugs 18" barrel
2 - a Win 71 converted to .50 Alaskan. Pricey and very powerful
3- a new (yeah, I see all the kvetching but mine is fine) Marlin 1895 .45-70with Buffalo Bore or Grizzly ammo. 540 grains of hard cast lead will penetrate the boss of a Cape Buffalo and ream him a new rectal orifice too. Read the article in G&A(?) I read so many of these gun rags they ought to pay me!
4 - If you can stand to actually take it out and shoot it, one of the Browning take-downs in .45-70. To me they are too nice to hunt with, but....
5 - Another popular Alaskan guide gun: a CZ 550 .458 Lott with American stock; will use .458 Win Mag also. "My" podiatrist is a 3 to5 times a year man to Alaska for this, that, and the other, so I get kept up fairly well through him. After all, he's taking my money so why souldn't I get some of his knowledge?
BEDLINER? Damned good idea! The texture must surely make it almost impossible to slip out of a wet hand, let alone a dry one. I'm gonna have to look into this. I just dumb enough to hunt in the rain. Snow. Sleet. Hail.Fog. Wet. Dry. Hot. Cold.
Trunk gun? Have you considered the new .338 Hog Gun from Savage?
$400 and change. With a very heavy bullet from Buffalo Bore or Grizzly I "think" (no experience) it could take the big browns too. 20" barrel and light weight means you get hammered too, but not as bad as on the receiving end.
And as others have said, the Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun with the above ammo is suitable I "think". No question about the 12 guage. If it won't solve the problem, not much less than a 20mm Lahti anti-tank gun will.
Or maybe a 30mm GAU-8 chain gun. DO NOT ask me how to mount it. How about a HEMMT? Thats pretty sturdy. With an Abrams turret? Just a little craziness here-it'll go away after a while.
BLR in 308 is hard to hate after the work.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/BLR%20TO%20DIE%20FOR/IMG_3079.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/BLR%20TO%20DIE%20FOR/100_3716.jpg
Well it has been covered pretty good i think but Id like to throw my .02 in.
Id listen to PAT as he does this for a living up in big country..
for me it would depend on what size bears we are talking about and where id be. I like my 1895 for about anything that walks and needs to be put down. Ive been running a lever gun since i started hunting. Id shoot some 400-500 grain hard cast bullets out of it for big bears or some 300 grains for black bears or pigs.
Or my Trusty 870 pump gun with ghost rings and some Brenekee Rotwell slugs.. Not a huge fan of buck shot for this type of thing.
cool thing about a pump is if it is a CAMP gun you can throw shot in it and put some food inthe camp pot as well..
these are my thoughts not yours.. ROY
47-70 or shotgun. here on the east coast I would never really consider a big bore rifle over a shotgun though even though a 45-70 would be amazing to own but would not really get used.
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