View Full Version : Dealer markup/fees on NFA transfer
So I just got my first can, an AAC Ti-Rant 45, and am now looking for my second one. I'm looking at the Silencerco Sparrow for the next one. The last transfer was done with what I thought was the nearest dealer which was 4.5 hours from me but I've since found one much closer.
Anyways, in my conversation with him he tells me that if I order and buy a silencer through him there's no paperwork fee, he just keeps the markup on it. But if I buy it somewhere else, either direct from the manufacturer (which I'm not even sure is possible) or from gunbroker then he charges a $100 fee for the paperwork.
Does that sound normal and reasonable? I spent that much just on gas going to get the last one so I don't mind it, but just seeing if that's normal across the board.
Thanks.
That is ridiculous. $50 tops. Keep looking for another FFL. Any reason he will not just order it on his own and sell it to you?
Another FFL isn't really an option. The nearest one to me is this one who charges $100 if I don't buy it through him and nothing if I do. The next nearest in state dealer is 4.5 hours drive from me, so I'll end up spending much more just in gas than anything else.
Sounds normal.
Pretty much he is saying he will charge you a set price on the suppressor if you buy it through him. As long as that price is the retail price on the suppressor or less then it is normal. Their markup is the difference in what their cost is vs what the retail list is.
If you buy it from someone else and just use him as a dealer he doesn't have any way of offseting his cost. On a standard firearm many dealers charge between 25 and 50 bucks for the transfer. With an NFA item they generally charge more as they are paying more to be a class 3 dealer and more importantly they have to hold the item a lot longer and be responsible for it. With a normal item they figure it should be less then say a month they have to hold it. With an NFA item it can be over a year. Around here I want to say it goes from 50 to 100 bucks from most dealers. I'd say the 100 is on average from what I've seen although I've seen a few places do it for 50 to 75 bucks in my area.
Unless you find a good deal on the suppressor to offset it just have the dear order it for you as long as they are just selling it at retail or less.
Raven Armament
02-15-12, 00:32
Think of it as a Title I sale or transfer. If you buy if direct from inventory, it's the price you see. If you buy it from another dealer (ie out of state), you pay a transfer fee.
With my experience paying attention to NFA transfer fees, it varies from $20 to $150 with an average group of $50-75. Some charge hourly at a rate that averages to be $50-75 all said and done unless stuff really goes wrong on the customer's end (ie, the customer's fault) and the SOT has to spend time holding their hand to make it right.
I'm the only SOT in the county and I charge $50 for suppressor transfers.
My personal opinion through a consumer's eyes (before I became an FFL/SOT): $50 is a good price, $75 is good for excellent service and expedited paperwork (no ****ing around it's mailed that day with tracking, informed when things are updated, etc), and $100 is a high end deal breaker- they better be on the Subguns recommended dealer list, unless it's a MG. More than that, hell no.
To illustrate my market, I charge $20 for Title I, $50 for suppressors, and $100 for machine guns. I keep my prices reasonable, but the average machine gun I transfer is $10,000 value: 1) what's another hundred bucks on top of ten THOUSAND? and 2) you're soaking up a lot of insurance coverage with your weapon during the F4 approval process. That costs me money to insure your weapon while it's in my safe. Yes, a cost of doing business, which is passed onto the consumer like everything else.
Another FFL isn't really an option. The nearest one to me is this one who charges $100 if I don't buy it through him and nothing if I do. The next nearest in state dealer is 4.5 hours drive from me, so I'll end up spending much more just in gas than anything else.
I suggest you check the FFL list on the BATFE web site. There are very few places in the USA with FFLS 4.5 hours apart.
So I just got my first can, an AAC Ti-Rant 45, and am now looking for my second one. I'm looking at the Silencerco Sparrow for the next one. The last transfer was done with what I thought was the nearest dealer which was 4.5 hours from me but I've since found one much closer.
Anyways, in my conversation with him he tells me that if I order and buy a silencer through him there's no paperwork fee, he just keeps the markup on it. But if I buy it somewhere else, either direct from the manufacturer (which I'm not even sure is possible) or from gunbroker then he charges a $100 fee for the paperwork.
Does that sound normal and reasonable? I spent that much just on gas going to get the last one so I don't mind it, but just seeing if that's normal across the board.
Thanks.
Reasonable and fair mean different things to different people. From the SOT's standpoint, he has either a $500 or $1k SOT (which he has to pay every year), expensive liability insurance, overhead, has to store your class 3 item for 4-6 months and then keep paper work involving your item for the next 20 years.
So is $100 a "fair" price to pay? Yes, I think so (assuming that he gives you good CS).
On the flip side, it might be cheaper for him to just order it for you so I would check that out first!
C4
Dolphinvet
02-15-12, 08:52
My class 3 dealer charges me 50 dollars per transfer, and I get Gemtech suppressors at dealer cost through him. Not a bad deal at all.
Eurodriver
02-15-12, 11:17
Once I found out my local SOT charges $100 to transfer a suppressor that he has in stock I said bite me and took the 2.5 hour drive to a better, friendlier guy who charges $50 for transfers.
SRT Supply in Clearwater = Joke.
Dolphinvet
02-15-12, 13:29
Once I found out my local SOT charges $100 to transfer a suppressor that he has in stock I said bite me and took the 2.5 hour drive to a better, friendlier guy who charges $50 for transfers.
SRT Supply in Clearwater = Joke.
B&H gunrack in Melbourne charges 200 as I recall for class 3 transfers too, which is ridiculous.
I suggest you check the FFL list on the BATFE web site. There are very few places in the USA with FFLS 4.5 hours apart.
There are lots of regular FFL's but nobody who can do class 3 type stuff. The last local guy we had died and his widow didn't continue the business. I'm on a state line, so there are closer than 4.5 hours but they're out of state. I was happy to find a closer dealer but the price sounded high, but still seems reasonable for the service. I hate that he says it's for paperwork. It's not hard filling out a form 4, but holding it for 20 years and keeping my item for months is a service.
turdbocharged
02-15-12, 14:44
50-100 seems fair to me. I didn't know about them having to keep the paperwork for 20 years. That's got to be a hassle if you do a lot of form 1/4s. Grant also makes a point about insurance it's not getting cheaper that's for sure.
I wish I had a local SOT within an hour. Closest I can find is 2 hours away. I hate driving on long trips. The 100$ would be worth it to me if I could just go up the street for it.
What is typical Mark up for a suppressor? I bought mine in August, paid $50 transfer, 3% Credit Card fee, State Sales Tax, and ended up with a can that was just $5 under retail price.
I was told that I would not pay "anywhere near" retail which I guess is a half truth considering the "transfer fee".
What ate at me more is after the purchase I sent the paperwork in myself, tracked it as best I could myself, and had to contact the SOT a number of times to get responses to questions or even get my completed invoice listing the EXACT details on the sale.
As much as I like the guy, as a customer I can't help but feel that once he got the cash, it was game over from his perspective.
I'm going to shop around for a different SOT next purchase. My trust in this one is gone.
What is typical Mark up for a suppressor? I bought mine in August, paid $50 transfer, 3% Credit Card fee, State Sales Tax, and ended up with a can that was just $5 under retail price.
I was told that I would not pay "anywhere near" retail which I guess is a half truth considering the "transfer fee".
What ate at me more is after the purchase I sent the paperwork in myself, tracked it as best I could myself, and had to contact the SOT a number of times to get responses to questions or even get my completed invoice listing the EXACT details on the sale.
As much as I like the guy, as a customer I can't help but feel that once he got the cash, it was game over from his perspective.
I'm going to shop around for a different SOT next purchase. My trust in this one is gone.
Profits are all over the place and it really depends on how many the dealer buys. If they only buy ONE, then profits are low once you figure in shipping and CC fees.
Some dealers buy them in large QTY'S and have lots of room to work.
C4
Grant,
Can one assume it is comparable to a single firearm? Say in the area of 20-25%
Thanks
Grant,
Can one assume it is comparable to a single firearm? Say in the area of 20-25%
Thanks
Granted, I sell most of my gear online and have very few walk in customers at our shop, buy I would just about throw a party if I made 20-25% on a firearm!
I do know that normal retailers make that money in full time storefronts so I guess that is the norm (just not in my world). I deal in SF cans only and make about 20% (as I give the customer the other 20% off). So for a small time dealer buying 1-2 cans, that profit margin is probably about right (Before shipping and CC fees).
C4
Granted, I sell most of my gear online and have very few walk in customers at our shop, buy I would just about throw a party if I made 20-25% on a firearm!
I do know that normal retailers make that money in full time storefronts so I guess that is the norm (just not in my world). I deal in SF cans only and make about 20% (as I give the customer the other 20% off). So for a small time dealer buying 1-2 cans, that profit margin is probably about right (Before shipping and CC fees).
C4
You gotta be shitting me! Dealer cost is 40% off retail? If so I got ****ed big time. I didn't even see 10% off with all fees and tax included.
A $100 transfer fee is completely reasonable. That is the going rate in my neck of the woods. Your local FFL/SOT needs to keep the lights on and actually make money. Provided they give good customer service and are timely, that is a reasonable price.
You gotta be shitting me! Dealer cost is 40% off retail? If so I got ****ed big time. I didn't even see 10% off with all fees and tax included.
Well, it depends on the brand we are talking about here. It also depends on whether or not the dealer has a direct account (or did they buy from another dealer who made their money first).
So without knowing the bigger picture, it is hard to assume what the dealer paid for the item.
C4
Raven Armament
02-18-12, 10:37
You gotta be shitting me! Dealer cost is 40% off retail? If so I got ****ed big time. I didn't even see 10% off with all fees and tax included.
That's the reason why I am in NFA instead of Title I. The margins in NFA are much better. Some suppressors give a 50% discount to the dealer no matter the quantity, so it gives the dealer a lot of room to price accordingly and still make money.
Dolphinvet
02-18-12, 10:45
That's the reason why I am in NFA instead of Title I. The margins in NFA are much better. Some suppressors give a 50% discount to the dealer no matter the quantity, so it gives the dealer a lot of room to price accordingly and still make money.
That's why I feel like I get a steal since my class 3 FFL lets me call up Gemtech direct and order my suppressor at his cost on my debit card. Then he only charges me 50 for the transfer. He told me he does that so he can keep his FFL since he doesn't sell so much and I assume he has to sell a certain amount.
Greg Kulbick
02-20-12, 12:51
I would just about throw a party if I made 20-25% on a firearm!
C4
QFT. With a lot of the prices out there now, I figure if I make the same amount profit on a $500 gun as I do on a title I transfer, I'm doing pretty good. If we had a 20-25% mark up we'd get laughed at.
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