View Full Version : AAR Vickers Tactical 1911 Pistolsmith Class Naples, FL Feb 6-11, 2012
I got the opportunity to attend the Vickers Tactical (taught by Mr. Larry Vickers AKA LAV) 1911 Pistolsmithing class in Naples Florida. The class was hosted by http://www.evergladesammo.com/. Good group of guys and very helpful and accommodating to the class.
The class was a good mix of industry type folks and average Joes that are interested in the 1911. Everyone was competent and open to learning (which made for a very enjoyable class experience).
The students were given a list of parts, tools and slide/frame recommendation. The majority of the students went with a Caspian frame and slide. I on the other hand was able to secure a Wilson Combat Slide/Frame/Barrel kit (SKU 440CFLC). A Special thanks goes out to Mr. John May of WC for helping me out with all of this! The reason I decided on this “kit” was because I wanted to see just how good it was. Could I just drop all the parts into the gun and it would work? Or would I have to fit every single part? More on this later.
Before diving into the WC build, let me first talk about the instructor. I have taken countless Vickers Tactical classes (Pistol, Carbine, Advanced Pistol, Advanced Carbine, Home Defense, LE/Mil CQB, Low Light, Advanced Tactics, etc) so I am very familiar with “LAV” and his teaching style. This class was different though. You could tell from day one that he really enjoys teaching these 1911 pistolsmithing classes (his passion if you will). His knowledge on the gun, how to make it run and tips/tricks acquired over many years was fantastic! He would draw on the white board (freehand) detailed pics of each part, what needed to be done to it and how it interfaced with other parts. All from memory and ZERO NOTES. Very impressive to say the least and this is what separates LAV from other firearms instructors. Many of them can teach you how to shoot. Some might even be able to tell you how the firearm works and what things you can do to make them reliable, but almost no one can tell you how to build a 1911 from the ground up. This is what separates him from the rest.
Back to my WC 1911. For the record, I build guns. I am knowledgeable on the AR15 family of weapons (build them, fix them and consult on them). I am also knowledgeable on doing trigger & reliability work on many of the popular polymer based pistols found today. I point this out to set the stage that I am not a complete moron when it comes to mechanical things. I have also attended Vickers 1911 operators course (where you remove every single part from the 1911 and discuss how things are “supposed” to be). With that said, building a 1911 is NOT for the faint of heart! Every single thing in that gun either does not fit OR needs to be polished, blended, etc in order to work properly! EVERYTHING!!! This class should be renamed the “Glock appreciation” class! I also have to point out (so my classmates don’t kill me), that a lot of the heavy lifting (slide to frame fit, barrel to bushing fit and beaver tail to beavertail lugs fit) was already done for me by WC (which is part of the deal when you buy the above listed kit). I still had to fit or finish the trigger, mag release, safety, barrel lugs, extractor, ejector, slide to frame (rear), beaver tail to frame (blending side contours), polish the insides of the trigger track, sear, disconnector, hammer, etc, etc, etc. So it wasn’t a “walk in the park,” but a lot of the harder parts were already done for me. At one point (while another VSM instructor was having some issues with a certain part), I pointed out that WC had already “done” that part for me. This in turn got me the double “middle finger” salute along with some comments about me sucking something. Not sure why though.
In regards to the work that WC does on their pistols, the word WOW comes to mind. Many times, LAV pointed out that WC does it better and boy did I notice it. While some of the other students were trying to hand file a different angle into a part or round a corner, mine was already done that way from the factory (and no, they didn’t do it as part of the kit, it’s just how their parts come naturally).
As we say in the AR world, “parts ain’t parts” and I now know that this applies to the 1911 world as well and will ONLY be using WC parts in my future 1911 builds. You do get what you pay for!
Because of this class, I can now fit barrels on other firearms. I can instantly look at other 1911 and see the mistakes and or poor craftsmanship. I can look at a 1911 (that isn’t working) and have a good idea about what is causing the problem. All very useful tools that will make me a better gunsmith in the future and for that, I greatly appreciate what LAV has taught me.
For those that love the 1911 and want to learn everything they can about it, go to this class! If you think that the class might be too hard for you (which it might be), just buy a Wilson Combat 1911 and be done with it (you’ll thank me later).
C4
Beginning
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Beginning.jpg
LAV talking about slide to frame fit
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/LAV_WC_SlideFrame_Fit.jpg
Cleaning up file marks
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Frame_FingerRest.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Frame_FingerRest_Done.jpg
Frame Bevel
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Frame_Bevel.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Grip_File.jpg
Frame being sanded
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Frame.jpg
Checking spacing
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Barrel_Frame_Fit.jpg
Fitting lugs
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Filing_Barrel_Lugs1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Filing_Barrel_Lugs.jpg
Sanding Lugs
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Barrel_Lugs_Sanding.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_Barrel_Lugs_Sanded.jpg
Frame Feed Ramp Sanding
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Frame_Feedramp.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Frame_Feedramp1.jpg
Checking height of barrel lugs
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Lining_Up_Barrel_Lugs.jpg
Ovaling link
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Link_Oval.jpg
Fitting Mag Catch
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Mag_Release.jpg
Rounding Recoil Guide Rod
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Recoil_Spring_GR_Cut.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Recoil_Spring_GR_Cut1.jpg
Ejector Cutting (LAV version)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Ejector_Cutting.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Ejector.jpg
Beaver Tail Fitting
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/BT_File2.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/BT_File.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/BT_File1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_BT_Done.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WC_BT_Top_Done.jpg
Ready to test fire!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Working_Gun.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Working_Gun1.jpg
Target shot at 10yds with no sights
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Target.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Class.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Class1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/BT_Lug_File.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_BT_WCJIG1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Fitting_Safety.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/LAV_BT_Fit.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Sudent_BT_WCJIG.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Barrel_Hood_Fit.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Barrel_LinkLugs_Fil.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Cutting_LinkLugs.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Cutting_LinkLugs1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Reaming_Barrel.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Slide_Bevel.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_Slide_Frame_Fit.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Student_slide_frame_Fit1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Trimming_FS.jpg
WhiteBoard Drawings from LAV
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WB_Barrel_Feedramp_Frame_Fi.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WB_Hammer.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WB_Disconector.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/WB_Trigger.jpg
TacTv Camera Guy doing what he does best!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/TACTV_Cameraman.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Range.jpg
Friendly Neighborhood Gator
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Vickers_1911_PS_Class/Gator.jpg
David Thomas
02-15-12, 10:27
Thanks, Grant.
I really appreciate the pictures and the write up.
Thanks, Grant.
I really appreciate the pictures and the write up.
I am not all that good at writing AAR's so I am glad you like it!
C4
Looks like it was a great class... These are the skills that separate Gunsmiths from Part Swapers...
B
Army Chief
02-15-12, 11:07
Extraordinary. Makes me hate the fact that I missed this one.
AC
David Thomas
02-15-12, 11:12
I am not all that good at writing AAR's so I am glad you like it!
C4
I enjoyed it very much.
The knowledge of what to look for on a 1911 is so much more than checking for slide to frame fit and pressing on the barrel hood. You are absolutely right, once you know what to look for, poor quality work and shortcuts are easy to spot.
LAV is a one of a kind resource for sure, especially with the 1911.
One of the best 1911 triggers I have ever pulled (shot?) is on a gun that was built in his gunsmithing class. He knows how to convey his knowledge to his students.
I am looking forward to hearing what sights you choose and the finish you put on that gun. Very nice 1911, by the way.
Awesome class. Would love to take one of Vicker's classes on the 1911.
I enjoyed it very much.
The knowledge of what to look for on a 1911 is so much more than checking for slide to frame fit and pressing on the barrel hood. You are absolutely right, once you know what to look for, poor quality work and shortcuts are easy to spot.
LAV is a one of a kind resource for sure, especially with the 1911.
One of the best 1911 triggers I have ever pulled (shot?) is on a gun that was built in his gunsmithing class. He knows how to convey his knowledge to his students.
I am looking forward to hearing what sights you choose and the finish you put on that gun. Very nice 1911, by the way.
How right you are! I now look at other 1911's (that most would consider good guns in the $1200-$1500 range) and just shake my head. Pure crap.
As they say, ignorance is truly bliss and now that I have an educated eye, I will be hard to impress.
C4
That's a carbon steel gun you built,right? How did you finish it and did you do any real accuracy tests?
This is the coolest thread I have seen in a while. I had always wanted to to attend a "build your own 1911 class" but honestly would have probably done one with a traditional and active 1911 smith like Jim Garthwaite.
I have nothing but the highest respect for LAV but probably would have passed on a class from a "tactical" guy. After seeing this, my mind may be changed.
I also would love to take a class with LAV period. Looks like a chance to do both.
I think in know what my 10 anniversary present to myself will be!
Thanks for posting this and all the awesome pictures!!!
Thanks for the AAR Grant. I have been trying to go to this class for a couple of months. I have even emailed a few previous OH hosts and they said there was talk about one this fall but nothing for sure. This would be a "grail" type class for me.
I had always wanted to to attend a "build your own 1911 class" but honestly would have probably done one with a traditional and active 1911 smith like Jim Garthwaite.
http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/1911-pistolsmithing/
He knows a thing, or ten, about pistolsmithing the 1911. In fact, I've personally seen custom guns he's built go for above $5,000. Sold to people who know 1911's.
If he committed to making 1911's again, he'd have a backlog like the top guys, no doubt in my mind.
Nice write up. Awesome pic's. I've been really wanting to fit this in for awhile but it just hasn't happened financially, but I can see that this year I'm going to have to go the extra mile to make it happen.
http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/1911-pistolsmithing/
He knows a thing, or ten, about pistolsmithing the 1911. In fact, I've personally seen custom guns he's built go for above $5,000. Sold to people who know 1911's.
If he committed to making 1911's again, he'd have a backlog like the top guys, no doubt in my mind.
I think his knowledge of the 1911 is obvious and I'm very familiar with the link. I only mentioned Garthwaite because he offers a similar class and is somewhat local to me; not to compare or contrast.
Im sure his work is some of the very best but I imagine some of that $5000 premium comes from his notoriety and the fact he doesn't make pistols anymore.
I do like the combat perspective he brings to the table though.
That's a carbon steel gun you built,right? How did you finish it and did you do any real accuracy tests?
Yes on CS. I have not finished it yet. I guestimate that I will have another 10-15 hours of work BEFORE I start shooting 200-400rds (to break everything in) and THEN have it re-finished. For that, I am going with Salt Bath Nitride.
I do not have any sights so no accuracy tests have been done.
This is the coolest thread I have seen in a while. I had always wanted to to attend a "build your own 1911 class" but honestly would have probably done one with a traditional and active 1911 smith like Jim Garthwaite.
The thing that LAV brings to the table is all of his experience at Delta, millions of rounds fired and all the bugs/problems witnessed via Delta shooters. No other 1911 pistolsmith can duplicate that (to my knowledge).
C4
http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/1911-pistolsmithing/
He knows a thing, or ten, about pistolsmithing the 1911. In fact, I've personally seen custom guns he's built go for above $5,000. Sold to people who know 1911's.
If he committed to making 1911's again, he'd have a backlog like the top guys, no doubt in my mind.
It is common now for his 1911's to command $7-8K and have seen one sell for $10K.
C4
SeriousStudent
02-15-12, 17:57
It would be worth buying a subscription to Tac TV, just to watch that one episode. The return on investment would be excellent, when you think of the time, money and ammunition saved.
Grant, thanks for the AAR, and please keep us updated on your 1911 build.
I'll also be interested in how this carries over for the M&P pistols you tune and sell.
WOW!
Great post Grant. Thank you for sharing.
.
The thing that LAV brings to the table is all of his experience at Delta, millions of rounds fired and all the bugs/problems witnessed via Delta shooters. No other 1911 pistolsmith can duplicate that (to my knowledge).
C4
Right you are!
Did you have to bring a full set of tools?
It would be worth buying a subscription to Tac TV, just to watch that one episode. The return on investment would be excellent, when you think of the time, money and ammunition saved.
Grant, thanks for the AAR, and please keep us updated on your 1911 build.
I'll also be interested in how this carries over for the M&P pistols you tune and sell.
Yes it would.
I plan on doing a pictorial review as the gun progresses in the 1911 section of this forum.
C4
SeriousStudent
02-15-12, 20:57
Thanks, Grant, I'll look forward to it.
Right you are!
Did you have to bring a full set of tools?
Yes on the tools. You needed everything in order to build a 1911.
C4
abanks8245
02-15-12, 22:30
I have always loved the styling and culture that surrounded the 1911, as an American firearm. I have loved and carried glocks for the last 6-7 years, and never had a chance to get enough trigger time or work on the few 1911s that i own. As a instructor, Larry Vickers is as much of a straight shooter and to the point as i have ever dealt with. You want his opinion, he gives it to you directly no bs or filler, kinda refreshing. In terms of 1911 he is a true wealth of knowledge, i felt like the most of the course as "that guy" but embraced it because of lack of knowledge on the 1911 platform. Lessons learn: The 1911 is not a glock, it is a outstanding firearm, but it is not a platform for "plug and play parts" ie drop in parts. If you want to take this class, which i seriously suggest get comfortable with proper use of file, and not be afraid to use it PROPERLY, some places/parts require dremal, some it takes filing , that is what separates a standard production 1911 from a custom 1911. The 1911 that i build for this class only resembles my MC operator in that they are both 1911s, the way things are fitted together are worlds apart , now don't get me wrong, Springfield still makes outstanding guns, and i will continue to buy from them. Larry's attention to detail to what makes a 1911 run , not just for the first 1000 rds but indefinitely is impeccable. Things i would have never though about to allow a 1911 to shoot reliably as well as shooting softer. If you are truly into 1911s as a hobbyist or gunsmith this is a class you will really appreciate and learn a metric ton from, and Larry gives you real world experience and a to the point, no bs instruction approach, having thick skin always work too lol. Was able Met some really cool guys in the course as well. i was truly blessed to be able to attend this course and still have a little work to do on my pistol as well. But when taught what right looks like, you really can see wrong from a long ways always.Hope im not hijacking the thread C4Igrant, My pistol with work to still be done.
from this
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk39/datruthab123/newpics104.jpg
to this
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk39/datruthab123/newpics003.jpg
with work still to be done! not bad for a true novice for the 1911 , now if i can get in one of larrys classes to learn how to shoot this thing to its full potential we would be in business!!!
Grant,
Thanks for the AAR and pics. Looking forward to seeing how this gun progresses.
Larry Vickers
02-16-12, 02:18
I want to jump in here and thank Grant and all the students for a great class - we had a good time and Grant is correct I do enjoy teaching that class; it also gives me a chance to get back to the workbench and file some metal - something I am too busy for most of the time these days
The 1911 build class will be on season two of TacTV and should be a cool show - and I'll let you guys in on a little secret; the TacTV website is about to go live ( within a few days- I promise!!) and the 10,000 th annual subscriber will get a custom 1911 built by me - a $10,000 dollar value!!
We have no idea how long it will take to get there , and we have other prizes along the way, but my director and I felt like that was a great way to reward whoever happens to be a lucky 10,000!
Be safe
LAV
Sounds pretty awesome Larry. Looking forward to watching it.
Also way to go on making people delay registering. :sarcastic:
If this class is anything like the carbine class I took with you, I'm sure it would be a great class.
Dude, you the got the "problem gun," but quite honestly probably learned the most in the class as you had to "fix" more issues than anyone (well besides Stony). :lol:
C4
Excellent write up, thanks for posting your experiance. It is my dream to attend one of those classes
....and I'll let you guys in on a little secret; the TacTV website is about to go live ( within a few days- I promise!!) and the 10,000 th annual subscriber will get a custom 1911 built by me - a $10,000 dollar value!!
Holy. ****ing. Hell!!!
abanks8245
02-16-12, 09:55
Dude, you the got the "problem gun," but quite honestly probably learned the most in the class as you had to "fix" more issues than anyone (well besides Stony). :lol:
C4
that's a fact right there, truly got my moneys worth, that's for sure, learning did occur :D:p
Grant,
Slam dunk on an awesome thread.
that's a fact right there, truly got my moneys worth, that's for sure, learning did occur :D:p
The gun's code name is now "Hornets' Nest"
Jason Weekley
02-16-12, 15:04
Grant,
Nice review, also nice to see you're back to being a VSM Instructor.
abanks8245
02-16-12, 15:42
The gun's code name is now "Hornets' Nest"
:laugh::laugh::laugh: absolutely fitting lol, good meeting you as well man!!!
Grant,
Nice review, also nice to see you're back to being a VSM Instructor.
Thanks.
C4
http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/1911-pistolsmithing/
He knows a thing, or ten, about pistolsmithing the 1911. In fact, I've personally seen custom guns he's built go for above $5,000. Sold to people who know 1911's.
If he committed to making 1911's again, he'd have a backlog like the top guys, no doubt in my mind.
He is also one of a select few on the 1911 pistol smith master guild list... Kinda like Garthwaite who is also a great old school 1911 smith and one of the more reasonably priced ones out there.
Nice write up Grant! Looks like you did a great job on your build.
This is a class that is definitely on my list of LAV classes.
averycustom
02-16-12, 16:42
I also attended Larry's 1911 Pistolsmithing class last week and will attempt to add my impressions, hopefully without being too redundant regarding what has already been posted.
Day 1 was spent fitting the slide and frame. I chose a basic carbon steel Caspian frame and slide with vertical grip serrations and ball cuts. These were ordered with Caspian's "production fit" which eliminates the majority of metal removal while still providing a true custom fit. There was some filing of the frame rails and lapping with 600 grit lapping compound mixed with Breakfree lubricant initially and then going with 1200 grit lapping compound. I was not aware Caspian offered this option and in the past have used the standard oversize parts; in the future I will utilize the production fit parts as there is no discernible difference in the end result and it was a real time saver. On the first day we also fitted oversize Greider triggers; chamfering the rear of the trigger bow to clear the leaf spring thus preventing the hammer possibly stopping on half cock. The majority of metal removal was from the top of the trigger shoe with these parts and we were instructed to hit the trigger face serrations with emery to lessen trigger finger abrasion.
Day 2 consisted of fitting Kart NM barrels. We filed the sides of the hood to clear the slide first, which is not a critical dimension and then squarely trimmed the hood length for a tight finger pressure fit in the slide. We were told that the barrel should move in and out of the slide with a popping sound like breaking an egg. We reamed the chambers until the base of a cartridge was slightly below the hood and the round fell out easily, we also polished the upper inside of the chamber to facilitate feeding. We then fit the upper barrel lugs to the slide to achieve contact at two and ten o'clock and to obtain a slightly low primer strike. We were told that a center primer strike was okay but a slightly lower strike was desirable on a pistol shooting full power loads. Lastly we rough fit the bottom barrel lugs with Brownell's lug cutting tool with the .195 inch diameter cutter and finished up with a file, emery and lapping compound. Next the barrel link and pin were fit in a way to avoid the barrel riding the link, making contact only with the slide stop. The rest of day 2 was spent cutting the feed ramp to the proper depth and length and cutting the barrel back to provide the necessary 1/32 inch gap between the bottom of the barrel throat and the feed ramp. I was uneasy during this operation as I've been taught that to maintain a 31.5 degree angle and .400 inch length on the feed ramp really requires a milling machine; nevertheless with care I was able to maintain these dimensions closely if not precisely with a file. Throughout the week if I was performing an operation I was uncomfortable with I'd frequently check my work with Larry to get his blessing before proceeding to the next step. The day concluded polishing the feed ramp, slightly throating the barrel and polishing the barrel mouth after breaking the area between the barrel mouth and chamber.
On day 3 we fitted Wilson beavertail grip safeties which was fairly straightforward using the Wilson jig. We belt sanded the majority of material off and filed, used emery cloth and lapped the part to a finished fit. We adjusted the nose of the grip safety to clear the trigger bow after about 1/3 of grip safety travel. I used John Harrison's grip safety fitting tool to maintain the grip safety in the engaged position during blending of the top frame tangs as I prefer that aesthetically. The remainder of the day was spent fitting the mag catch and modifying it to prevent mag trapping and ease mag
insertion.
Day 4 was spent installing the plunger tube, ejector, sights and thumb safety; again fairly straightforward. Larry likes to loc tite the plunger tube and ejector after slightly heating the area to promote wicking of the loc tite between the parts. We cut the nose of the ejector back and to the right. Thumb safeties were modified to prevent accidental engagement during weak hand firing.
Day 5 morning we fitted hammer, sear, disconnector, firing pin stop, and extractors. We did not modify the sears or hammer hooks; these were Wilson parts and Larry feels they are pretty good to go as is. I'll cut my hammer hooks to .018 inches and hit the surfaces with a ruby stone during final tweaking. There was nothing extraordinary with the extractors, just the usual relief cuts and polishing, he recommended about 4lbs of pressure on the extractor tension. We then headed to the range and put the guns through a series of function testing and zeroed sights for elevation by shooting and then filing down the front sight accordingly.. I seem to remember some of the guys having maybe some minor ejection issues but mine functioned flawlessly. On day 6 we reviewed the week, took pictures, etc. It should be noted that not all of us worked at the same pace and a lot of cosmetic work like dehorning, polishing outside surfaces and bead blasting was done while people caught up.
My overall impression of the class was very good. I really liked Larry's relaxed teaching style and the class reinforced some concepts that I've been exposed to in the past. His knowledge of 1911 pistolsmithing and all of the little tricks and nuances he conveyed were very worthwhile for me. I took Cylinder and Slide's 1911 class years ago and the information from both presented different techniques that when combined will enhance my approach to building a top quality pistol. It was great for me on a personal level to make contacts with some of the other guys who are in the industry as it is my goal to launch my own custom 1911 shop in the near future. I can't thank Steve Bender enough who was a helpful and gracious host for the class. He is a top notch gunsmith and I was very impressed with his ammunition manufacturing operation. As a class we enjoyed evenings at dinner swapping experiences and insights regarding all manner of firearms related information. The fact that the class was documented for a future Tac Tv episode was just icing on the cake. It was a very satisfying week of instruction, stimulating conversation and Florida sun.
Regards,
Mark
dreinhardt
02-16-12, 17:29
I own a pistol that Larry built for me back in the late 90's. I took the 1911 centennial class in August with this gun. Not a single malfunction and without a doubt this gun is the most accurate 1911 I've ever owned. I've owned guns from other big-name pistol smiths as well but Larry's attention to detail and his knowledge of what makes a 1911 run are what set this gun apart. If you ever have a chance to own a Vicker's pistol, do yourself a favor and get it. You won't regret it.
I really need to save up and go to one of these. As much as I love 1911s, it seems just wrong that I haven't done this yet.
And Aaron still hasn't brought his gun in to work for the rest of us... ok, me... to fondle!
David Thomas
02-16-12, 19:24
I also attended Larry's 1911 Pistolsmithing class last week and will attempt to add my impressions, hopefully without being too redundant regarding what has already been posted..
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for your detailed post, Mark.
abanks8245
02-17-12, 00:45
grant and mark
Great AAR. I would love to be skilled enough to work on a 1911 like that.
Nathan_Bell
02-18-12, 08:13
Holy. ****ing. Hell!!!
QFT!!!!
teamacacia
02-20-12, 16:02
Was the parts list very specific or was there leniency in which barrel, for example, to get?
I WILL be doing this class in the future if at all possible.
Was the parts list very specific or was there leniency in which barrel, for example, to get?
I WILL be doing this class in the future if at all possible.
Yes and yes.
C4
TriumphRat675
02-20-12, 16:09
I'm interested in what, if any, prereq's are mandatory or suggested. Obviously LAV's operator and armorer courses are a good idea...anything else that would help, or could a wanna-be build on those classes and end up with a good result?
I'm interested in what, if any, prereq's are mandatory or suggested. Obviously LAV's operator and armorer courses are a good idea...anything else that would help, or could a wanna-be build on those classes and end up with a good result?
I guess you have to ask yourself if you ever build anything that is complex. Doesn't have to be guns, but you have some knowledge on hand tools and such.
To be brutally honest, I work on custom AR's and polymer pistols almost everyday. These two guns did not prepare me (well) for building a 1911.
C4
averycustom
02-21-12, 08:24
Attending an operator's or armorer's class sure couldn't hurt, especially with Larry to get an idea of his teaching style. I'd also review the Kuhnhausen manuals and the Wilson and API dvd's. Practicing filing an irregular shaped piece of steel into a perfect cube is good, but actually attempting to build a few pistols would be the best preparation. Be prepared to ruin some parts learning. I'd also keep my expectations low as far as leaving the class with a pistol that is in the same league as one built by one of the top pistolsmiths. I was actually pretty pleased with mine this time but it was the fifth one I've built and I took Cylinder and Slide's class before this one. For me this has been a long steep learning curve with a lot of trial, error and expense. I was glad I'd had a fair amount of experience before taking the class...I believe I was able to focus more on the finer points Larry presented.
Regards,
Mark
Looks like one hell of a class.
Looks like one hell of a class.
It was and one of the most rewarding.
C4
The thing that LAV brings to the table is all of his experience at Delta, millions of rounds fired and all the bugs/problems witnessed via Delta shooters. No other 1911 pistolsmith can duplicate that (to my knowledge).
C4
One has to give credit where it's due, and in some realms, there's Larry, and there's everyone else it seems. I'd kill to take that class, but I think my 1911 knowledge has a ways to go before I could get the most from such a class, and the more I owned and shot them, did it give me such an appreciation for all that can go wrong, and an appreciation for modern low tech guns (compared to the 1911) such as the M&P, which I transitioned to.
Great write up, great pics, and if that course was challenging you to you, I know I'm not ready for it. Maybe some day... :cool:
Was the parts list very specific or was there leniency in which barrel, for example, to get?
I WILL be doing this class in the future if at all possible.
This was my second Vickers 1911 pistolsmithing class and I took a friends raggedy SA 1911-A1 and built a MEUSOC clone. In some cases I deviated from Larry's recommended parts list in order to be closer to what is specified for a MEUSOC and/or M45 pistol.
On more than one occasion this created issues where I was spending an inordinate amount of time to get the parts to fit and work.
My recommendation would be (especially if this is your first build) to follow LAV's list to the letter. Also, I would hold off on spending the extra money for a race ready recon frame and save that for the next build.
Does he still recomend the Ed Brown tactical safety? Just curious as I have heard reports fo QC slacking on these units? I just ordered parts for one of my 1911's and followed the LAV list to a tee.
Does he still recomend the Ed Brown tactical safety? Just curious as I have heard reports fo QC slacking on these units? I just ordered parts for one of my 1911's and followed the LAV list to a tee.
That was the safety that was listed in the parts list (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1324/sku=087-245-890/Product/Blue-Tactical-Safety)
I think that most of the parts LAV would select for a 1911 build would come from WC, but since WC is so far behind, it is kind of hard to use them for a class like this.
C4
Ahhhhh......someday when he gets to WA. This class tops my list of "gotta go to" classes.
Ahhhhh......someday when he gets to WA. This class tops my list of "gotta go to" classes.
I would say that if you want him to come out to you to teach such a class, that you start looking for the following:
1. Space to have the class and 5-6 benches.
2. Get 5-6 students that want to attend.
3. Contact Mr. Vickers and ask him about coming out to WA in 2013.
C4
Grant,
Actually, I understand that this is already in the works. Not by me, but by folks in the Eastern/dry side of the state. Now I'm just getting the parts together.
Thanks
eternal24k
03-13-12, 11:29
fantastic thread and excellent photos! Thanks Grant
I may have missed it in the thread, but what did this class run? Are there plans to do more?
I may have missed it in the thread, but what did this class run? Are there plans to do more?
The cost really depends on how many tools you already have and if you have to travel or not (flight, car rental, hotel) really add to the price of everything.
With that said, I think the gun, class and tools would be around $3500-$4K.
C4
averycustom
05-01-12, 10:16
Guys,
The Tac Tv episode documenting the class aired this morning; I think it turned out rather well. It looks as if it will be repeated today @ 1530 central time and again on 6 May.
Regards,
Mark
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