View Full Version : Why won't Colt make a R0945 M16A4 Civilian AR-15?
trackstar55
02-15-12, 13:34
I have looked at the Colt civilian catalog for years now and I don't understand why they won't make a civilian version of the M-16 rifle? I know some say there is no market for it, but I would put my paycheck on it that it would sell like hot cakes. Look at the few RO945 uppers that have somehow found itself to the secondary market, they sold for the same price as a complete rifle.
The specs of this upper I am referring to are: 20" flattop government profile barrel 1:7 twist chrome lines with bayonet lug.
I would think people would jump at the opportunity to own a replica of what our military is using.
Colt is currently making it. http://www.colt.com/ColtMilitary/Products/ColtM16A4Rifle.aspx
How hard would it be to put a Semi-Auto lower to it and sell it to us!
I WANT ONE LOL
Colt can't make firearms and parts fast enough.....SO... What is the deal with this company?
FN has the current contract for the M-16 rifle. (as far as I know)
Although this does not mean Colt couldn't make a rifle, they know that right now the market tends to lean toward modular setups, carbines, and SBR's. This doesn't mean you can't get a hold of a Colt AR-15 rifle, I've seen them myself floating around here and there.
To be honest, I would like a full FN M16 for collector's sake, but then again, a BCM 20" would be just as good as far as performance.
side note: I'll also put forward I have seen 20" AR-15's coming back in style little by little so it could just be a matter of time.
One day they might make it. If they wait too long everyone who wants a 20" rifle is going to have a BCM by then. If they hurry up they'd probably have thousands backordered in a month or two. Between shooters who want a COLT 20" M16A4 replica to go shoot alot, and collectors who want a COLT 20" M16A4 just to own... many would be pre-ordered and sold immediately.
One day they might make it. If they wait too long everyone who wants a 20" rifle is going to have a BCM by then. If they hurry up they'd probably have thousands backordered in a month or two. Between shooters who want a COLT 20" M16A4 replica to go shoot alot, and collectors who want a COLT 20" M16A4 just to own... many would be pre-ordered and sold immediately.
I would be one of the first. As mentioned above, a FN release would be perfect as that was the last rifle I was issued but a Colt offering would be perfect as well while helping me keep the safe a Pony only zone.
Their probably holding out to use it as a Rainy Day fund.
DiabhailGadhar
02-15-12, 18:03
I've been in and out of a few armories on a couple of different bases as of late and I can confirm that all the recent rifles I've seen are indeed FN's. I went trying to build a m16a4 clone and ended up using a BCM upper, colt lpk from G&R, colt stock kit, and a lower made in IN (where I'm from). I've only had a few rounds through it but the BCM reputation proceeds its self. If you're trying to build a clone I would go that route, cuz I don't really see colt releasing that anytime soon.....
trackstar55
02-15-12, 22:40
I know that FN makes the 20" which are very very cool (and I haven't ruled trying to obtain a brand new FN barrel only from Palmetto State Armory), but the Colt Military website says they are making M16A4's with the 20" barrel.
So its being made for someone.............
I know that FN makes the 20" which are very very cool (and I haven't ruled trying to obtain a brand new FN barrel only from Palmetto State Armory), but the Colt Military website says they are making M16A4's with the 20" barrel.
So its being made for someone.............
Just swap the lower for that of a 6720 (minus the "Lightweight...Carbine" markings) and they'd have my credit card info before the ink on the press release was dry.
Organize a buy large enough and Colt will make almost whatever you want. I'm not meaning for this to be facetious either. I don't know if this is something Grant would be interested in undertaking but I don't think it'd be hard to get a couple hundred people interested.
trackstar55
02-16-12, 10:09
Organize a buy large enough and Colt will make almost whatever you want. I'm not meaning for this to be facetious either. I don't know if this is something Grant would be interested in undertaking but I don't think it'd be hard to get a couple hundred people interested.
I am interested in organizing a group buy. Thats why I started this thread.....to see if I was the only one or not that had interest in a Civilian M16A4.
I would like a simple roll mark
"AR-15A4" under to the colt logos, nothing else. No Pporter, no Law Enforcement Carbine. Heck, they already make a "M4 Carbine" roll mark for their carbine version now.
If anyone is interested, I would like to hear about it.
I am interested in organizing a group buy. Thats why I started this thread.....to see if I was the only one or not that had interest in a Civilian M16A4.
I would like a simple roll mark
"AR-15A4" under to the colt logos, nothing else. No Pporter, no Law Enforcement Carbine. Heck, they already make a "M4 Carbine" roll mark for their carbine version now.
If anyone is interested, I would like to hear about it.
Get in touch with a distributor.
Organize a buy large enough and Colt will make almost whatever you want. I'm not meaning for this to be facetious either. I don't know if this is something Grant would be interested in undertaking but I don't think it'd be hard to get a couple hundred people interested.
From what I gather that's been examined by at least two distributors that I know of and/or spoken with. Both fell through. I cannot speak as to why but it did and I picked up that it fell more on Colt's shoulders than those who were fighting to get the model on the production line.
One day they might make it. If they wait too long everyone who wants a 20" rifle is going to have a BCM by then. If they hurry up they'd probably have thousands backordered in a month or two. Between shooters who want a COLT 20" M16A4 replica to go shoot alot, and collectors who want a COLT 20" M16A4 just to own... many would be pre-ordered and sold immediately.
Yea I have two bcm 20 inch rifles because their 20 inch uppers where pretty much the best you could get at a reasonable price. One is pretty much a complete bcm gun(with exception to the a2 stock as the lower came with bcm's m4 stock). The other is using a complete bcm upper on a local ffls lower that was made by mega.
I know that FN makes the 20" which are very very cool (and I haven't ruled trying to obtain a brand new FN barrel only from Palmetto State Armory), but the Colt Military website says they are making M16A4's with the 20" barrel.
So its being made for someone.............
For the second upper I considered palmetto but didn't want to go through the extra mess to assemble a compete upper and wasn't convinced that their complete upper was the way to go. I wasn't sure if they ever started using the correct hand guard cap. Also it seems like they had some QC problems. Between that and bcm having the 20 inch upper back in stock it seemed like a no brainier.
Now if I could have gotten a complete colt upper at a reasonable cost I would have. Hell if I could have gotten the complete rifle when I got my bcm rifle I would have at least considered the colt instead.
At this point if they offered it I'm not sure if I'd personally get one. I have 2 20 inch rifles and am not really sure I need a third.
Get in touch with a distributor.
I agree.
Also, if there were a group buy, I'd probably be in too.
Colt can't even keep their distributors stocked with existing models. The AR-15A4 roll mark is already in use on the AR6720. Look no further than said AR6720 to see an example of an epic fail. A rifle that scores said they would buy and when Clyde delivered, the buyers were nowhere to be found. Only Clyde himself knows how many hundreds of those carbines they are sitting on.
Colt can't even keep their distributors stocked with existing models. The AR-15A4 roll mark is already in use on the AR6720. Look no further than said AR6720 to see an example of an epic fail. A rifle that scores said they would buy and when Clyde delivered, the buyers were nowhere to be found. Only Clyde himself knows how many hundreds of those carbines they are sitting on.
And yet, people gripe about vendors charging high, non-refundable deposits on people's "good ideas."
Needless to say, the 6720 is an amazing rifle. I find a lot of times the marketing it just done wrong. As one may observe, Colt got on the ball this past year somewhat.
trackstar55
02-16-12, 22:23
Colt can't even keep their distributors stocked with existing models. The AR-15A4 roll mark is already in use on the AR6720. Look no further than said AR6720 to see an example of an epic fail. A rifle that scores said they would buy and when Clyde delivered, the buyers were nowhere to be found. Only Clyde himself knows how many hundreds of those carbines they are sitting on.
I've seen the roll mark: "AR-15A4
Lightweight LE Carbine"
I would want to see for the Civilian M16A4 clone:
"AR-15A4 or just "AR-15A4
Government Model"
But that's just me
Colt can't even keep their distributors stocked with existing models. The AR-15A4 roll mark is already in use on the AR6720. Look no further than said AR6720 to see an example of an epic fail. A rifle that scores said they would buy and when Clyde delivered, the buyers were nowhere to be found. Only Clyde himself knows how many hundreds of those carbines they are sitting on.
If they are still sitting on hundreds of them part of the reason for that is the outrageous prices they want for the lower serial numbered guns. Right now you can get one from Grant for about $100 less than what they are asking for the higher serial number ones and get alot better customer service to boot!
The issue that will come up is Colt Custom would like to deliver the guns to one FFL. The minimum order requirement is another issue. Colt can fashion a website to take CC orders for a specific weapon so corralling the payments wouldn't be an issue. Once the minimum order requirement is met then the buy closes and the 120 days for manufacturing the weapons begins. There are probably other issues that I'm overlooking but I'll have more time tonight to call Dimock to see if this is even feasible.
LTK
If they are still sitting on hundreds of them part of the reason for that is the outrageous prices they want for the lower serial numbered guns. Right now you can get one from Grant for about $100 less than what they are asking for the higher serial number ones and get alot better customer service to boot!
They are sitting on them because nobody wants to buy one. When you put up the buy money, you can call the prices outrageous. Until then, you may want to refrain from questioning Clyde's business model. Grant doesn't have even one for a $100 less. Evidently you didn't notice the OUT OF STOCK tag next to the item name.
motorolahamm
02-17-12, 09:00
Not the A4 but here is a version of the A2
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=272938019
trackstar55
02-17-12, 09:10
Not the A4 but here is a version of the A2
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=272938019
Very nice, I like the roll mark on it!
Too bad it has the oversize lawyer front push pin.
At least Colt has gone back to the standard push pins and are in the process or have completely changed to the .154 fire control group pins from the .170.
IZinterrogator
02-17-12, 21:21
I would buy one if they were priced in the neighborhood of the current SP6920s. But if I had to pay along the lines of the LE6920s back in the day at $1600+, I'd skip it and buy a BCM A4 or A5 or just build my own from a stripped receiver.
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I'd skip it and buy a BCM A4 or A5
Why even think about Colt when there are others who actually make the stuff people want, the way they want it?
They are sitting on them because nobody wants to buy one. When you put up the buy money, you can call the prices outrageous. Until then, you may want to refrain from questioning Clyde's business model. Grant doesn't have even one for a $100 less. Evidently you didn't notice the OUT OF STOCK tag next to the item name.
I put up the buy money.
The prices are outrageous.
Clyde's business model is stupid.
The fastest way to run off the serious user is to attach the word "collectible" to the item in question. It evokes imagery of Klingon battle fantasy knives and painted dinner plates. I just want a friggin RIFLE.
I don't understand the attraction for this rifle?
I put up the buy money.
The prices are outrageous.
Clyde's business model is stupid.
The fastest way to run off the serious user is to attach the word "collectible" to the item in question. It evokes imagery of Klingon battle fantasy knives and painted dinner plates. I just want a friggin RIFLE.
Agreed. I liked being able to buy a specific serial number since I could get my badge number, luckily it fell in the normal price range. However, the number sold of the "collectibles" should show the tiered pricing is a waste.
trackstar55
02-18-12, 10:04
I don't understand the attraction for this rifle?
Todd, ,
I assume you are in the military based on your avatar and I grateful for your service. My dad was also stationed at Fort Dix back during Vietnam. My great grandfather was in WW1 and I have his dog tags. My best friend (Army) is over in the DMZ in Korea at the moment.
I am a LEO and have many different types of AR-15's. We even have Vietnam era M16's at work that have been converted to semi-auto (and a few genuine M14's).
I actually prefer the 20" over the 16" and 14.5" I feel more comfortable with the A2 buttstock with the sling locked around my arm.....and the only collapsable butt-stock that feels right for the proper cheek weld is the LMT SOPMOD.
Also, I love my Colt's and my history. To me, its the genuine deal.
Thats the attraction for me. A 20" civilian version of what our armed service men use (I know its FN now, but I like my Colts) and the fact its a COLT! I don't want any other 20" model if I can help it.
I also actually prefer iron sights and enjoy the challenge. I think many people have gotten away from iron sights, but when SHTF and my super expensive optic fails (or battery goes dead), I want to still hit the target. Its a skill that I wish more people perfected and once perfected, then get an optic.
To me, its just an enjoyment thing. But to each their own.
As with the above poster it is somewhat about nostalgia for me. I want to keep my safe Colt only (rifle wise) while at the same time having the closest thing I can to the last rifle I was issued while in the Corps. It'd be nice to hit my department's range every once in a while, lay the Commando down for a bit, and revisit the platform I carried daily while in Baghdad or on the KD range during rifle week.
Todd, ,
I assume you are in the military based on your avatar and I grateful for your service. My dad was also stationed at Fort Dix back during Vietnam. My great grandfather was in WW1 and I have his dog tags. My best friend (Army) is over in the DMZ in Korea at the moment.
I am a LEO and have many different types of AR-15's. We even have Vietnam era M16's at work that have been converted to semi-auto (and a few genuine M14's).
I actually prefer the 20" over the 16" and 14.5" I feel more comfortable with the A2 buttstock with the sling locked around my arm.....and the only collapsable butt-stock that feels right for the proper cheek weld is the LMT SOPMOD.
Also, I love my Colt's and my history. To me, its the genuine deal.
Thats the attraction for me. A 20" civilian version of what our armed service men use (I know its FN now, but I like my Colts) and the fact its a COLT! I don't want any other 20" model if I can help it.
I also actually prefer iron sights and enjoy the challenge. I think many people have gotten away from iron sights, but when SHTF and my super expensive optic fails (or battery goes dead), I want to still hit the target. Its a skill that I wish more people perfected and once perfected, then get an optic.
To me, its just an enjoyment thing. But to each their own. You're welcome.
I understand and the match target is the only thing that is close. BTW our FM requires a zero and qualify with iron sights before the optic and not all optics use batteries. Bottom line we are all better shots and have better situational awareness with some type of modern both eyes open optic.
An old SP1 clone would be kinda cool... The retro thing works if and when its done properly by the manufacture.
I could go for a brand new SP1 clone too.
My CC will be ready if a group buy ever happens on either.
Colt's rifle line would be complete with the following line up; Retro SP1 (A1), AR15-A2, and an AR15-A4 (with M5 RAS).
Flattop 9mm as 16 inch and SBR too.
IZinterrogator
02-18-12, 22:17
Why even think about Colt when there are others who actually make the stuff people want, the way they want it?
Because I can afford it and I want it, no further explanation required.
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trackstar55
02-19-12, 01:59
Colt's rifle line would be complete with the following line up; Retro SP1 (A1), AR15-A2, and an AR15-A4 (with M5 RAS).
^
THIS!!!!!! All of it ^
I have begged for a Retro Vietnam era M16! I have a real M16 Vietnam era M16 that was converted to semi-auto for duty/patrol. Great shooter.
Colt's WW1 and WW2 1911's were such a hit!!! Look at what they are going for on the secondary market! Wish I would have bought one for an investment. they are bringing as much as the originals.
I bet a follow up with a Vietnam M16 with the triangle handguards and the pencil thin barrel (only now make it with a 1:7 twist chrome lined barrel) would be just as big a hit.
trackstar55
02-19-12, 02:01
Because I can afford it and I want it, no further explanation required.
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I couldn't have said it any better myself.
So who is contacting the distributor? What can I do? Lets make some noise.
trackstar55
02-22-12, 19:36
Here is a guy who wanted a M16A4 clone, so he just built one.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97747
But my question to Colt and others are this....if people are spending money on trying to piece one together (spending god knows what on shipping from several different vendors), why doesn't someone capitalize on this.
The money the individual will safe on piecing together a part here and a part there, blowing money on several different shipping boxes.......he could save by buying the real deal.
There is a market for this rifle. I will put my paycheck on it. I love Colt that much.
My great grandfather carried a Colt 1911 in WW1, my dad qualified in boot camp with a Colt during Vietnam, my best friend defends his life and your freedom in Korea in the DMZ with a Colt M4 (as well as Iraq) and I stake my life on my Colt 1991A1 for my duty weapon/Colt LE6920 for my patrol rifle.
Nodak Spud makes a killing on retro parts for the Vietnam era lovers
BCM makes a killing on the 20" uppers for the M16A4 clone.
Colt is our history, I am baffled here why such a simple rifle configuration like with a very SIMPLE roll mark like this is not even offered. They make a 20" but not this.
Im done with my rant. thank you all.
Call colt and lay it out for them with real numbers and some market research, and maybe youll get some attention.
Real numbers indicate they need to produce a midlength (maybe) with a nice long monolithic RECCE upper in their nice new anodized colors :big_boss:
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