View Full Version : Just went with a PPQ over the M&P9
... I fully expect to own both at some point, but I had to do the PPQ first. Hope I'm not making a mistake. In case anyone is interested I have the reasons I went with the PPQ over the M&P for now...
I have a P99 AS Compact with a threaded barrel. It makes a fine suppressor host, and with the fullsize grip adapter feels fine. It doesn't conceal like a PPS and doesn't shoot like a fullsize when using the small mags. I haven't had any issues with the mag release ever.
I know my girlfriend can run the mag release and slide controls on the P99c and HK P30. I can not swing the money for the P30 with reports of a shitty trigger. For the price it better be gold out of the box. Sorry HK, get your pricing in order and I'll take another look.
I'm eventually looking at a subcompact 9, and the PPS seems to be adored by most owners. Having a familiar manual of arms is a plus.
The PPQ no doubt looks a lot nicer than the M&P to me. If the P99 is any indication it's going to have a slight edge on ergonomics as well. I also feel like the Walther has a better fit and finish than the Smith (slide to frame fit mostly).
The big issue is with an M&P and PPQ, I need night sights, a holster, threaded barrel and weapon light. I got the PPQ First Edition which considering I don't have to buy a threaded barrel, night sights, or a trigger kit (Apex for the M&P) I save a little money. If I didn't buy the PPQ now, a Jarvis threaded barrel would run ~$220 alone.
There are a lot of reports of inaccurate M&P9s right now, and I see they are adding luminescent sights (ala P30) to some models as standard. I think I'll wait for issues and changes to finalize.
The major cons with the PPQ are the extra cost for the mags. Less availability in parts and options. And I really do want one of those Crimson Trace Lightguards, no issue for the M&P, but they have no plans for the PPQ.
The worst thing I've read about the PPQ is muzzle flip seems to be a little high. Can't be worse then my P99c, which I don't feel is awful. I might feel differently if I was looking at .40s.
I plan on taking three training courses this year and I think it's going to be all with the PPQ. So... I think I'm going to get a good feel for the gun. Maybe these notes that went into my purchase will be helpful for someone else.
You're going to be very happy with the PPQ.Mine outglocks my Glocks.
caddishatch
02-16-12, 16:06
You made the right purchase. You are going to love it. Mine has 800rds through it and it just keeps getting better.
vicious_cb
02-16-12, 17:36
I definitely test it with alot more rounds than I usually would. Uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.
I definitely test it with alot more rounds than I usually would. Uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.
Yea I know right! I still need to put 5000 more rounds down my MP5 before I'll give it the go ahead.
jonbondave
02-16-12, 17:42
I definitely test it with alot more rounds than I usually would. Uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.
I wouldn't call it uncommon. It's pretty new. I've seen more to do about the PPQ on a range of forums than i have about any other new pistols on the market in A LONG time. I even bought one. it's justa P99 with new look and a different trigger system, but it's been out in europe for some time now, since around 2008 I believe.
But back to your logic, are HK P7 & P9 pistols junk? How about Sig P210's? Just saying. :) Alot of the time products are uncommon because they aren't marketed to the sheep, err people. Think about your comment in context to brands, are BCM, noveske, even colt AR's less common for a reason?! The answer is, yes. Because they put there money into the product.... not in glossy full page adds.
I definitely test it with alot more rounds than I usually would. Uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.
The reason I looked at the PPQ was all the talk on different forums about the great trigger and lack of issues. The reason I bought one was the feel in my hand and everyone was right about the trigger, it is superb!
Mine has been dead nuts reliable with over 700 rds down the tube.
I definitely test it with alot more rounds than I usually would. Uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason.
Just broke 2000rnds on mine..No failures of any kind..Very accurate, The PPQ has been around in Europe for a few years, it's just now getting here, I think these are going to be very popular..Excellant egro's, excellant accuracy,excellant trigger, HK like controls, Out of the box, about all they need are better sights.. And that's easily fixed by the end user.Walther isn't exactly a uncommon gun...they've been around a long time.If I remember correctly,the first DA/SA semi auto pistol was a Walther..
I have 2500+ rounds through mine 1400-1500 over just three days. Probably 1-2 failure-to-feeds (I've had more in my Gen3 G19). Only real issue has been the large slide stop. It's large enough that I have issues with the gun not going to slide lock at times. I don't know whether to class that as a legitimate issue or operator error. I don't really want to modify my grip, so I'm still on the fence as to the implications. I will say I like it better than any other pistol I've ever shot and it pains me when I go back to shooting the G19. YMMV
vicious_cb
02-16-12, 23:35
It seems you guys have a real emotional attachment to this pistol. Relax, its just a pistol. My comment to do extra testing with this particular model is simply because no large LE agency issues this pistol, known instructors haven't enough of these pistols in classes to truly evaluate them nor do we have a large pool of owners to raw from. I mean would you really choose a P7 as one of your top choices for a modern fighting pistol?
Gary1911A1
02-17-12, 02:36
I just got the PPQ and I think you made the right choice based on my experience with both the PPQ and M&P. Except for the magazines, holsters and the higher bore axis which gives an impression of more recoil I don't see the M&P as a better choice and the PPQ trigger and accuracy makes up for those.
those are interesting guns.... how do you like the trigger? I seem to recall it being glock-like but lighter and with a very short reset.
jonbondave
02-17-12, 03:02
It seems you guys have a real emotional attachment to this pistol. Relax, its just a pistol. My comment to do extra testing with this particular model is simply because no large LE agency issues this pistol, known instructors haven't enough of these pistols in classes to truly evaluate them nor do we have a large pool of owners to raw from. I mean would you really choose a P7 as one of your top choices for a modern fighting pistol?
As to the P7, I would. Have you ever shot one? Those pistols are sweeeeeet. I'd take one over any of HK's current offerings. Talk about a fast psitol. Plus they look cool and completely unique in the world of firearms. And, as for the PPQ. it's just a P99Q. I mean it has a newer trigger system which is essentially the same as the AS system without a decock option. So really these guns have been around since what? 1997? the exterior does look different, but internally they are nearly identical. same barrel, same frame, same slide, different milling. I mean, if glock changed the shape of their slide would that throw said new product into questionable standing? honestly? I'm not trying to raz you here.
jonbondave
02-17-12, 03:09
those are interesting guns.... how do you like the trigger? I seem to recall it being glock-like but lighter and with a very short reset.
I think the trigger pull weight, is right at the same point as glock. 5.5 pounds or so. It's smoother than a glock, and the reset is very short. Another note about the reset, it's extremely positive. It is both audible and you can feel it in your trigger finger. Some people have had trouble controling it, but I think that's more of a finger problem than a trigger problem. The striker on the PPQ is fully cocked, so the trigger just disengages the firing pin safety and trips the sear.
It seems you guys have a real emotional attachment to this pistol. Relax, its just a pistol. My comment to do extra testing with this particular model is simply because no large LE agency issues this pistol, known instructors haven't enough of these pistols in classes to truly evaluate them nor do we have a large pool of owners to raw from. I mean would you really choose a P7 as one of your top choices for a modern fighting pistol?
Well if you waiting to see how they pan put after a LE agcency test them you'll be waiting a looong time, as Walther has no plans to persue LE contracts with the PPQ... The pistol stands on it's own merits..In my case, after 2000 rnds with no problems, I think it's proved it's reliable enough to use as a CCW. So far, No broken parts, the cases don't fly into my face when ejected, It's accurate out to 25yds (unlike another well known pistol on this board) What else do you want? As far as known instructor evaluation goes, In the "ask the SME" forum below, Mike Pannone approves of the XD,XDm as a CCW.. as well as a CZ (SPO1?),Which I find suprising considering this boards known opinion of them..All that proves is, that's just one man's opinion..nothing more...and I'd take it with a grain of salt..
I think the trigger pull weight, is right at the same point as glock. 5.5 pounds or so. It's smoother than a glock, and the reset is very short. Another note about the reset, it's extremely positive. It is both audible and you can feel it in your trigger finger. Some people have had trouble controling it, but I think that's more of a finger problem than a trigger problem. The striker on the PPQ is fully cocked, so the trigger just disengages the firing pin safety and trips the sear.
so it's like a well tuned glock with an HK style mag release. sound awful ;)
i may just have to pick one of these up....
The only differences I see in the internals of my P99 and PPQ, are the trigger, trigger bar, and trigger return spring. The PPQ is new, but there is almost nothing new on this pistol.
Walther basically took the frame, slide, and barrel from the P99Q (2008), threw in P99 (1997) internals, and made a pistol. That is all the PPQ is. The P99 had the same great trigger and trigger reset in SA as the PPQ since 1997.
I don't understand how some pistols get to the "proven" status. The M&P is considered "proven" by many people simply because agencies bought them, right? What am I missing? They have had accuracy issues, rust issues, mag dropping issues, striker failure issues, etc. It didn't take an agency contract for these issues to arise.
So the M&P which has had multiple issues since it first came out, and still has accuracy issues today, is proven, but the PPQ which has had none, isn't?
I don't get it.
jonbondave
02-17-12, 11:52
The only differences I see in the internals of my P99 and PPQ, are the trigger, trigger bar, and trigger return spring. The PPQ is new, but there is almost nothing new on this pistol.
Walther basically took the frame, slide, and barrel from the P99Q (2008), threw in P99 (1997) internals, and made a pistol. That is all the PPQ is. The P99 had the same great trigger and trigger reset in SA as the PPQ since 1997.
I don't understand how some pistols get to the "proven" status. The M&P is considered "proven" by many people simply because agencies bought them, right? What am I missing? They have had accuracy issues, rust issues, mag dropping issues, striker failure issues, etc. It didn't take an agency contract for these issues to arise.
So the M&P which has had multiple issues since it first came out, and still has accuracy issues today, is proven, but the PPQ which has had none, isn't?
I don't get it.
It's all in the marketing. Some people just can't believe something is a good product if it hasn't been marketed to them extensively. And been used by SEAL team 6 and Delta. Not proven until it's saved a head of states life. Anyhow, yea the P99, unproven since 1997. As far as I'm concerned, the only proving a pistol needs to do is done at the range with your individual copy. It doesn't matter if other people's copies are proven or not, it's my copy that matters. I just don't think most people are really aware that this gun is not really new, they assume that being a totally new gun, it will have teething problems, like the Sigma 2 err M&P.
Nephrology
02-17-12, 11:53
If I was in the market for a new pistol platform the PPQ would be at the top of my list no doubt. Especially in conjunction with its cousin the PPS...
The only differences I see in the internals of my P99 and PPQ, are the trigger, trigger bar, and trigger return spring. The PPQ is new, but there is almost nothing new on this pistol.
Walther basically took the frame, slide, and barrel from the P99Q (2008), threw in P99 (1997) internals, and made a pistol. That is all the PPQ is. The P99 had the same great trigger and trigger reset in SA as the PPQ since 1997.
I don't understand how some pistols get to the "proven" status. The M&P is considered "proven" by many people simply because agencies bought them, right? What am I missing? They have had accuracy issues, rust issues, mag dropping issues, striker failure issues, etc. It didn't take an agency contract for these issues to arise.
So the M&P which has had multiple issues since it first came out, and still has accuracy issues today, is proven, but the PPQ which has had none, isn't?
I don't get it.
I could'nt agree with you more...
To be fair, all of the issues you mentioned have been resolved. The accuracy issues are confined to the 9mm pistols, which I have a example of..and it has "proven" itself to be very dissapointing at ranges past 15yds..OTOH my midsize .45 is like a laser..very accurate..My reasons for buying a PPQ were simple..It dosen't need anything except better sights...and that's easily fixed. After doing what many others here did with their M&P9..Apex parts, NS, stippling, and still have poor accuracy at longer ranges, I can only equate it to putting lipstick on a pig...
I truly believe you can't go wrong with the PPQ. It takes the P99, a great pistol, to the next level! It's a way more ergonomic G19.
Lucky Strike
02-17-12, 20:02
Anyone know if you can mill a MRDS into the slide of a PPQ?
I've got an M&P9 with a Deltapoint and love it. I've got a P30 and love the gun itself more then the M&P but can't put a MRDS on it due to the internals in the slide.
PPQ shares a lot of ergo features of the P30 so if I could put a MRDS on it it'd be the best of both worlds.
Anyone know if you can mill a MRDS into the slide of a PPQ?
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/19926-something-wicked-way-comes.html
I have an M&P, and picked up a PPQ two months ago, only +/- 600 rds through it so far but have not shot the M&P since buying the PPQ.
Lucky Strike
02-18-12, 10:50
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/19926-something-wicked-way-comes.html
Hmmm.....i guess it's good that it can be done in theory but I'll have to wait till i see someone else have one done to see what the adapter thingy would end up looking like.
Since I only have $500 currently saved in my fun budget right now I'd have to wait till like summer to get up to the $1200 it sounds like it'd cost for the whole project. Should be plenty of time for someone else to be the guinea pig before I'd have to make the decision.
Not attempting to derail the thread, but.....
Almost pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on buying a PPQ today, then I tried to find a duty holster for it. No luck, zip, ziltch, nada.
Did a little research, very little, and cant seem to find out if it will fit in duty holsters for the P99. The trigger gaurd is noticibly different.
Anyone who has found one please let me know. I really like the platform and would love to find a Safariland ALS for it. :confused:
Strange
Is it hard to get factory parts for the PPQ? What about mag prices?
Not sure about the ALS, but there are some holsters available for the PPQ.
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/16630-ppq-holsters.html
As far as parts, your best bet is to find out if C4IGrant or S&W has whatever you are looking for in stock. The PPQ is still pretty new though, so it may take some time for spare parts to be available.
The only part Walther recommends you change out regularly is the recoil spring every 5k rounds. Out of curiosity, what parts are you concerned about? The P99 shares a lot of parts with the PPQ, but it is pretty rare to hear about parts breaking in either pistol.
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