View Full Version : G-MAG
skullworks
02-16-12, 13:30
I did this write-up on a different forum, but figured I'd share it here as well.
As some of you may know, there is a product called G-MAG available in Europe. G-MAG, as far as I know, stands for "German Magazine." The G-MAG:s are made by Cerberus GmbH (http://www.cerberus-gmbh.com/), which is a subsidiary to Oberland Defence GmbH (http://www.oberland-defence.com/) - and not to be confused with Cerberus Capital Management, LP (http://www.cerberuscapital.com/).
This is what Oberland says about the G-MAG:s:
The G-Mag is not a Magpul-Product, nor is it licensed by Magpul Ind. in any way or did Magpul Ind. provide any help and assistance in developing this magazine. The G-Mag will only be distributed to civilian customers in Germany and Europe. Worldwide distribution is limited as an OEM product, only together with an Oberland Arms rifle.
I picked up an Oberland Arms OA-15 Black Label 20" (http://www.oberlandarms.com/index.php?category=Waffen&id=OA15_BL&page=details) before X-mas, and a G-MAG 30-rounder (http://www.oberlandarms.com/index.php?category=Magazine&id=1&page=details) was included with it. I've also purchased some PMAG's (M-revision with maglevel), so I snapped some side-by-side shots. As far as I can tell the G-MAG:s are still being made in accordance with Magpul PMAG gen1.
PMAG on the left, G-MAG loaded with 5 dummies:
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4205/pmaggmag001.th.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag001.jpg/)
Close-up of level markings on PMAG, and lack thereof on G-MAG:
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4076/pmaggmag003.th.jpg (http://img850.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag003.jpg/)
Date stamp on PMAG:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3953/pmaggmag010.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag010.jpg/)
Date stamp on G-MAG:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1268/pmaggmag008.th.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag008.jpg/)
Impact Cover notch on bottom of PMAG - lacking on G-MAG
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8517/pmaggmag005.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag005.jpg/)
Front straps; PMAG on left:
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/4075/pmaggmag006.th.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag006.jpg/)
Rear straps; PMAG on right:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1460/pmaggmag018.th.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag018.jpg/)
Impact Covers; PMAG on left:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1340/pmaggmag007.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag007.jpg/)
Inside of Impact Covers; PMAG on left:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4955/pmaggmag019.th.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag019.jpg/)
Close-up of PMAG Impact Cover inside markings:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4286/pmaggmag022.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag022.jpg/)
Close-up of G-MAG Impact Cover - no inside markings:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9041/pmaggmag023.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag023.jpg/)
Feed lips and carriers; PMAG on the right:
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6141/pmaggmag017.th.jpg (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag017.jpg/)
Floor plates; PMAG on the left:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4564/pmaggmag014.th.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/pmaggmag014.jpg/)
I guess you wouldn't need Magpul's help or assistance in design if you're just going to copy-paste and sell it as your own...
-B
I guess you wouldn't need Magpul's help or assistance in design if you're just going to copy-paste and sell it as your own...
B,
I doubt that that is the case. The West Germans were stockpiling pre-loaded plastic G3 magazines during the Cold War. One might better ask where Magpul got their idea from.
Regardless, I love my Magpul mags...
I dunno. There's a difference between, "let's make a polymer mag" and "let's make a polymer mag exactly like theirs". Pmags and those old G3 mags have extremely little in common. The Pmag and Gmag, on the other hand, look like the same design with different branding.
-B
skullworks
02-16-12, 15:11
I would say the G-MAG is straight copy for the international market. Magpul, for whatever reason, has decided not to pursue this matter. Either way; I'm buying Magpul.
It does indeed appear to be almost a direct copy. I imagine it's well made though.
It does indeed appear to be almost a direct copy. I imagine it's well made though.
Looks like an early gen 1 or gen 2 pmag. Maybe Magpul sold then a license to produce them.
Ether way, Magpul just came out with a new design.
I've had one for a few years
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/GMag/GMag001.jpg
I've had one for a few years
And how do you like it? Pros? Cons?
It appears not to be an exact copy. where did you get it?
skullworks
02-17-12, 02:49
It's a straight copy of the first generation PMAG - not current generation.
skullworks
02-17-12, 02:56
FYI; I've never heard of one of these failing, but then again AR:s haven't been very common here until the past two years - and we don't run them as hard as you do in the U.S. (ammo pricing - $0.45-0.60 per cartridge - and range suitability are the two main factors).
per findings on another "AR" forum someone (supposively from Magpul and/or related to, posted the following)
____
Magpul [Industry Partner]6/16/2009 1:44:42 AM
In short the Oberland Arms' GMAG magazine is a German reversed engineered version of the PMag.
That said Oberland Arms did inform us of their intent to copy the PMag and we expressed no interest in taking the matter to court so long as GMags we not imported into the US and/or there was no confusion in the marketplace.
Magpul did not license the design nor did we give any technical information on how to build the PMag . As such we do not receive any funds from GMAG sales.
So our "approval" comes from being inactive on the issue in Germany.
Because Oberland received no technical information they were unaware of the newer M rev PMag until it was publicly released at SHOT show. This is why their version is based on the earlier PMag design.
They also had to estimate what materials were used and how the entire molding process was put together. We will not comment on their results because that might be seen as giving information, but needless to say there are notable differences in materials and final geometry between the PMag and GMag.
This is not the first time elements of the PMag have been copied and so long as the GMag is serving only the German market we wish them the best.
Don't they make a translucent version as well? Damn I wish Magpul would release the T-Mag...
skullworks
02-17-12, 07:09
Don't they make a translucent version as well? Damn I wish Magpul would release the T-Mag...
They do.
Image courtesy of and linked to Oberland Arms
http://www.oberlandarms.com/images/g-mag/g-mag_30_223rem.jpg (http://www.oberlandarms.com/index.php?category=Magazine&id=1&page=details)
Meanwhile, stateside...
Promag makes a 30 and 42rd "Pmag" of their own that's extremely similar (at least cosmetically) to Magpul's.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/nasfc.ncmpl/v/vspfiles/photos/MGPMCOL-A18-2.jpg
I'd buy a couple to put through their paces if they were a little less than a Pmag, or whatever, but it's 100% pointless to spend more than I would on a Pmag. Where can I buy a couple on the cheap?
skullworks
02-17-12, 09:02
I'd buy a couple to put through their paces if they were a little less than a Pmag, or whatever, but it's 100% pointless to spend more than I would on a Pmag. Where can I buy a couple on the cheap?
Don't know if there are any European vendors who will ship them to the U.S.
Sent using Tapatalk
Magpul gave Oberland the OK for the production of those mags
Apparently we haven't said the same thing on the same page in the same thread enough times, so let's repeat it some more.
Apparently we haven't said the same thing on the same page in the same thread enough times, so let's repeat it some more.
Dear Sir: Are you reffering to the fact that Magpul gave Oberland the ok to produce an unlicensed clone of the 1st Gen PMAG?
And how do you like it? Pros? Cons?
I've used it a few times, functions well.
The polymer composition is a little bit different.
Pro's - very few people have them here stateside
Con's - paid twice as much as a Magpul PMag
It appears not to be an exact copy. where did you get it?
From a guy in Germany ;)
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/P1150637.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/P1150635.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/P1150634.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/P1150633.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/P1150632.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/P1150630.jpg
Magpul gave Oberland the OK for the production of those mags
Nope! Magpul made that one quite clear.
Wanting the inferior clone is quite strange when you can have the original.
Nope! Magpul made that one quite clear.
roger that
Wanting the inferior clone is quite strange when you can have the original.
not in EU..PMAGs are hard to find and expensive... :rolleyes:
for a civilian that use his AR for IDPA/IPSC/3Gun etc the GMAG seems like a good option if it's reliable.
I got one today just to give it a try...paid 22 Euro.
seems like Oberland updated the moulding since they are now marked "OA MAG 30" and manufactured by "Oberland Defence Gmbh". Manufacturing date is Nov/11. The baseplate is unmarked.
I dont have a Gen1 PMAG for comparison but I do have a Gen2...the inside of the PMAG is a lot more smooth. Also the follower of the OA-MAG doesnt seem to be self lubricating.
btw, the 20rnd version comes with the 10 Round Limiter.
http://s17.postimage.org/6g6pp5t63/DSC00206.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/6g6pp5t63/)
http://s17.postimage.org/ox14fz94b/DSC00210.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ox14fz94b/)
http://s17.postimage.org/kp6c787or/DSC00211.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/kp6c787or/)
http://s17.postimage.org/xhug75jaj/DSC00213.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/xhug75jaj/)
http://s17.postimage.org/ee14qt6gb/DSC00223.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ee14qt6gb/)
skullworks
02-29-12, 11:10
Up here (in Sweden) G-mags and PMAGs run about the same; around 25 euros. So in my eyes it's not much of a choice - PMAG all the way.
Sent using Tapatalk
steelonsteel
02-29-12, 15:31
I still can't believe they haven't sued over this.
ForTehNguyen
02-29-12, 15:33
you can export pmags right, so youd have to make them overseas
skullworks
02-29-12, 16:10
Steelonsteele; suing someone outside of the U.S. is not very easy.
ForTehNguyen, yes they can - they do require a DDTC export permit though.
steelonsteel
02-29-12, 16:28
[QUOTE=skullworks;1244830]Steelonsteele; suing someone outside of the U.S. is not very easy.QUOTE]
If they ahve any kind of international copyright then I would still do it.
Sueing might not be easy - but losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales wouldn't be real easy for me to swallow either!
skullworks
02-29-12, 16:40
Given the fact that Magpul haven't pursued this matter, maybe they didn't have any patents outside of the U.S.?
Also, there is no such thing as an all encompassing "international patent" - such a patent would mean that you have applied for (and received) a patent in every single country (or at least any country that matters) around the world. That is a VERY costly process that not too many companies pursue.
Also, as you may know there are countries that do not recognize international patent laws/agreements - China is one obvious example. The former Soviet Union is much the same (especially when it comes to copyrights). It has actually come to the point that most industrial companies in Germany will not file patent applications as Chinese companies will use the patent and/or patent applications as blueprints for their copies.
auditech10
04-14-12, 17:41
Found this on Oberland Arms website:
"The OA-Mag is not a Magpul-Product, nor is it licensed by Magpul Ind. in any way or did Magpul Ind. provide any help and assistance in developing this magazine. The OA-Mag will only be distributed to civilian customers in Germany and Europe. Worldwide distribution is limited as an OEM product, only together with an Oberland Arms rifle."
http://www.oberlandarms.com/produkte-infos-mags--de-artnr=100-OA+MAG+30+Schuss+223+Rem+Magazine+Mags.html#produkte
I kind of like the clear mag, Germans/Austrians have been using clear mags for decades now. I dont really see the purpose though. Just as the little window in the MagPul mags, you'd know when the mag is full but wouldnt have any idea how full when it was inserted in the rifle...
Cheers
Weirdness. It's like an alternate universe P-MAG.
i just read that it's a licensed copy of the 1st gen. Pmag.
skullworks
04-15-12, 07:22
i just read that it's a licensed copy of the 1st gen. Pmag.
Where did you read that it was a licensed copy? Licensing requires DDTC approval - and if it was a licensed copy why would Oberland claim Magpul had nothing to do with it as there would be no reason for them to lie about it?
The "Cerberus GmbH"-marked G-MAGs are copies of the Gen 1 PMAG. The "Oberland Defence"-marked G-MAGs (that were made available over the past year) are copies of the current generation PMAG.
One difference I noticed yesterday (and which I believe Magpul previously noted on their website) is that the Magpul Ranger Plates (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG212/22) will not fit the Cerberus G-MAG. Whether they will fit the Oberland G-MAGs remains to be seen.
TacticalSledgehammer
04-15-12, 07:35
Dup post
TacticalSledgehammer
04-15-12, 07:37
Now if G-mag would come in an AK variation. I've been hounding magpul about that for 2 years now. :big_boss:
Where did you read that it was a licensed copy? Licensing requires DDTC approval - and if it was a licensed copy why would Oberland claim Magpul had nothing to do with it as there would be no reason for them to lie about it?
The "Cerberus GmbH"-marked G-MAGs are copies of the Gen 1 PMAG. The "Oberland Defence"-marked G-MAGs (that were made available over the past year) are copies of the current generation PMAG.
One difference I noticed yesterday (and which I believe Magpul previously noted on their website) is that the Magpul Ranger Plates (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG212/22) will not fit the Cerberus G-MAG. Whether they will fit the Oberland G-MAGs remains to be seen.
on another forum from a very reputable poster. something about pmags not being available in Germany was the reason for the Gmag was also mentioned. i would like to get my hands on a few.
skullworks
04-15-12, 10:07
on another forum from a very reputable poster.
Care to share a link?
Care to share a link?
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?1066-G-MAGS-The-German-P-MAG
skullworks
04-15-12, 10:19
i would like to get my hands on a few.
These guys are reputable; not sure if they will ship internationally though but you can email and ask: http://www.dae.se/Magazine_div.html - info@fksport.se
And for the currency conversion: http://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/
skullworks
04-15-12, 12:23
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?1066-G-MAGS-The-German-P-MAG
Ah yes, and as you can see in that thread there's a lot of back and forth there too regarding whether the G-MAG was licensed, a blatant copy, or a copy with Magpul's unofficial approval. You can even find a post by your's truly on the last page.
Which takes us back to square one; there are still no proof that the G-MAG is a licensed copy of the Gen1 PMAG.
Ah yes, and as you can see in that thread there's a lot of back and forth there too regarding whether the G-MAG was licensed, a blatant copy, or a copy with Magpul's unofficial approval. You can even find a post by your's truly on the last page.
Which takes us back to square one; there are still no proof that the G-MAG is a licensed copy of the Gen1 PMAG.
true...that's why i was careful not to make it sound like a fact. ;) i think i would rather have a well made German copy of something instead of anything Chinese though. i think i'll stick with the Made in the USA version.
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