View Full Version : 1911 vs G19 as carry gun.....
I know, i know.....i dont want this to turn into a mess. I would like to get some serious opinions on why you carry one over the other. I really like both platforms, and i dont think one is better than the other as a weapon......i like certain things about both, and think they are both outstanding guns.
Without attacking the one you disagree with, why do you carry what you do? I shoot both guns well, but im trying to decide on a single carry gun, and i dont switch back and forth all the time. Im starting to shoot competitively, and i am leaning towards a 1911 as my competition gun........i would like to carry what i shoot regularly. I like the feel of the 1911 and shoot it slightly better, but the glock, on paper, is the better carry gun IMO.
1911 pros/cons:
I shoot the 1911 better than any other pistol, and have all my guns setup exactly how i like them. The ergonomics are great, and i love the big .45 round. The gun is very slim, which is awesome to carry, but it is also heavy and has a poor capacity compared to the G19. At the range, id pick the 1911 all day long, but not sold on it as a carry gun yet. I am NOT worried about the 1911 being unreliable.....i have quality guns and take care of them properly.
G19 pros/cons:
Its light, accurate, cheap, easy to replace parts, very reliable, striker fired, durable, decent trigger......a pretty damn good gun. The only negative i can find with the glock is that its a little thicker to carry.
Im starting to take some training courses (carbine, shotgun, and handgun), as well as uspsa, and i would like to use the same gun everywhere. How did you guys pick what you carry?
I find the 1911 much more comfortable to carry than the Glock. The 1911 is much heavier though. Pretty much everyone on the internet will tell you to carry the Glock. I like the Milt Sparks Versa-Max for the 1911. I have yet to find a comfortable IWB holster for the Glock 19.
The capacity issue comes up a lot. I have used airsoft 1911s loaded to 9 rounds in FOF classes including Southnarc's AMIS; getting solid hits was way more of an issue. Magazine capacity has never really been a problem in these classes much to my surprise.
Whatever pistol you use educate yourself on what is required to keep it reliable.
From a carry newbie. I've been carrying concealed as a civilian for only about 6 months.
I carried an M9 on a belt overseas on the FOB and a safariland leg rig outside the wire.
I had a less than stellar brand compact pistol (taurus pt111) that I carried for the better part of 5 months. It was small lightweight and 100% reliable through about 1200 rounds of fmj, and 200 rounds of gold dot jhp's. Not a high round count, but it never hiccuped. I carried this IWB in a CBST lookalike made by Tommy Theis.
I decided I wanted better aftermarket following and known reliability, so I traded to Tauri and bought a G19. It has been less than reliable with 10 FTE through my first 500 rounds of ownership ~3 weeks now. I will carry it when it proves itself reliable.
Being it's cold here in IA I have been carrying my 1911 that is 100% reliable with ball and fmj ammo. It's heavy, not the easiest to conceal with just a t-shirt, but under a jacket it disappears. I carry a spare mag next to my wallet in my weak side front pocket, so with two mags I'm up to g19 capacity.
I'm accurate with it, it's reliable thus it's comforting to have on me.
I chose the g19 because of relatively cheap ammo compared to the .45 as I plan on doing some gaming with it as well as carrying it when it proves itself reliable. I can conceal it easily and it's not heavy in comparison to the 1911.
I don't know if that's the type of response you want, but in all reality it comes down to what gives YOU a warm fuzzy on your hip and in your head.
Failure2Stop
02-16-12, 19:49
G19 pros/cons:
Its light, accurate, cheap, easy to replace parts, very reliable, striker fired, durable, decent trigger......a pretty damn good gun. The only negative i can find with the glock is that its a little thicker to carry.
Im starting to take some training courses (carbine, shotgun, and handgun), as well as uspsa, and i would like to use the same gun everywhere. How did you guys pick what you carry?
I would take a G19 over even the best 1911 simply because I can get replacement parts and fix pretty much anything in the gun with zero skill needed. I can also get about 4 G19s for the price of a decent 1911, which ia a whole lot of warm and fuzzy in case something happens to my primary carry/competition piece.
And as far as width is concerned, I'm 5'10" at my lightest I was about 165lbs, and I could conceal a G19 (and 1911) with nothing more than a good holster and appropriate clothing. Really, width isn't a big issue, muzzle length and grip protrusion are what really print.
I find the 1911 much more comfortable to carry than the Glock. The 1911 is much heavier though. Pretty much everyone on the internet will tell you to carry the Glock. I like the Milt Sparks Versa-Max for the 1911. I have yet to find a comfortable IWB holster for the Glock 19.
The capacity issue comes up a lot. I have used airsoft 1911s loaded to 9 rounds in FOF classes including Southnarc's AMIS; getting solid hits was way more of an issue. Magazine capacity has never really been a problem in these classes much to my surprise.
Whatever pistol you use educate yourself on what is required to keep it reliable.
Yeah, i carry the 1911's in a VMII....great holster. The weight isnt terrible with a good belt. The only scenario that worries me about the capacity is multiple threats......the close combat courses ive taken have shown you can go through 9 rounds pretty quick, and the nice sights/trigger of a 1911 wont really matter too much.
Its not the same as putting 21 shots through the same hole at the static range. I was easily accurate enough with the close range point shooting of the glock.
I get much flak on this forum for having the effrontery to carry the 1911 (Oor Browning Hi Power) in event of a thug incursion, but I really do believe that if a handgun were the only thing between me and premature death, I'd prefer it over all the others.
Maybe it comes down to what you're familiar with and shoot well. If you already shoot the 1911 in competition, why would you want to re-train on a whole new platform? Carry the 1911 in case the "competition" is a gang.
A thug on "fry" doesn't care what gun you carry, or what caliber it is, or what it's loaded with. He only cares if you hit or not.
For what it's worth: FBI agents assigned to computer crime, bank fraud, monitoring interstate child porn, etc. carry issue Glocks.
FBI agents assigned to Hostage Rescue Team or SWAT carry single stack 1911s, having "upgraded" from the Browning. Food for thought.
Funkenstein
02-16-12, 20:45
I have carried a Glock 19 for 4 years now and my only complaint is it's thickness.
I love the satisfaction of having 15 rounds and no safety to fumble with under stress.
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Anyway, I love my Glock 19 and find it's a great carry option.
I have carried a Glock 19 for 4 years now and my only complaint is it's thickness.
I love the satisfaction of having 15 rounds and no safety to fumble with under stress.
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Anyway, I love my Glock 19 and find it's a great carry option.
I totally disagree with your method of 3 rounds fmj, but thanks for the reply.
They're both good choices, but the G19 is easier to use and support, and a LOT cheaper to shoot.
Okie John
I carry a red dot sight equipped glock 19 aiwb and fine it conceals better than the 1911 I carried aiwb. Ymmv, but I love my 19.
Littlelebowski
02-16-12, 21:34
I get much flak on this forum for having the effrontery to carry the 1911 (Oor Browning Hi Power) in event of a thug incursion, but I really do believe that if a handgun were the only thing between me and premature death, I'd prefer it over all the others.
Maybe it comes down to what you're familiar with and shoot well. If you already shoot the 1911 in competition, why would you want to re-train on a whole new platform? Carry the 1911 in case the "competition" is a gang.
A thug on "fry" doesn't care what gun you carry, or what caliber it is, or what it's loaded with. He only cares if you hit or not.
For what it's worth: FBI agents assigned to computer crime, bank fraud, monitoring interstate child porn, etc. carry issue Glocks.
FBI agents assigned to Hostage Rescue Team or SWAT carry single stack 1911s, having "upgraded" from the Browning. Food for thought.
And Delta and SF carry Glocks. There goes your silly argument about "I carry what HRT uses."
Hopefully there will be more logic forthwith.
RancidSumo
02-16-12, 21:44
I get much flak on this forum for having the effrontery to carry the 1911 (Oor Browning Hi Power) in event of a thug incursion, but I really do believe that if a handgun were the only thing between me and premature death, I'd prefer it over all the others.
Maybe it comes down to what you're familiar with and shoot well. If you already shoot the 1911 in competition, why would you want to re-train on a whole new platform? Carry the 1911 in case the "competition" is a gang.
A thug on "fry" doesn't care what gun you carry, or what caliber it is, or what it's loaded with. He only cares if you hit or not.
For what it's worth: FBI agents assigned to computer crime, bank fraud, monitoring interstate child porn, etc. carry issue Glocks.
FBI agents assigned to Hostage Rescue Team or SWAT carry single stack 1911s, having "upgraded" from the Browning. Food for thought.
I had a feeling I would find you in here....
OP, read around on the site a little bit and do some searching. There have been about a thousand threads on this very topic and the almost unanimous advice given by the experienced members (I am not one of them) is to go with the Glock. My limited experience has shown that to be solid advice even when comparing to a $2500 1911.
donlapalma
02-16-12, 21:49
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Anyway, I love my Glock 19 and find it's a great carry option.
Yes. This is dumb. Even dumber yet is to post this fact on this forum.
Unless your passion for the 1911 would lead you to carry more often with it, or there really is enough of a difference in how accurately you shoot from concealment with the 1911 that you can logically give up half the number of rounds, it's G19 all the way.
Unless your passion for the 1911 would lead you to carry more often with it, or there really is enough of a difference in how accurately you shoot from concealment with the 1911 that you can logically give up half the number of rounds, it's G19 all the way.
There is definitely not a huge difference between the two when it comes to my speed/accuracy. I am [I]slightly[I] more accurate with the 1911, but adequate with both. The problem is i'd MUCH rather shoot the 1911 at the range/competitions. Its just more fun, and i like the gun better.
Im not LEO/military, nor am i in a high risk situation....im just an ordinary citizen. The chances ill ever need to use a gun in self defense is VERY small to begin with, so i figured it might be better to carry the gun i shoot more often (1911), even though i agree the glock is a better combat weapon.
I started as a 1911 shooter. Very easy to shoot accurately. Pretty. Slim.
But I've since moved on to a polymer 9mm. The *main* advantage really is the magazine capacity. With a 1911, faced with 3 attackers, you only have about 3 rounds to stop each threat. That's assuming you are actually practicing fundamentals while adrenaline is dumping through your body.
In addition, my 1911s choked much more often than my G19.
Finally, I can beat up, sweat on, drop, knock around, and shit all over a $500 G19. I have a much harder time writing off dings and scratches on my $1,500 carry 1911.
YMMV.
jmlshooter
02-16-12, 22:32
I just can't get around the "carrying 8 rounds" thing.
I enjoy the 1911, but not enough to stake my life on it.
Funkenstein
02-16-12, 22:34
Yes. This is dumb. Even dumber yet is to post this fact on this forum.
Like I have something to prove? Heh.
Anyway, why is it dumb?
I've been in the same situation you're in for quite awhile.
I really like the 1911 for what it is, the history, looks, feel in hand, delicious trigger, accurate, old-school... whatever.
I have a couple or three custom 1911s and the 45s are stone-cold reliable. I like to shoot Single Stack and CDP and even have a 9mm 1911 just like my 45 for Steel Challenge and just messin' around.
I am also extremely fond of a Glock 19 and carry one daily because they just conceal better for me and the weight is much better for me because I honestly carry from approximately 0600-2000 or later EVERY DAY.
I use my 19 to play the games too but I train on the Glock exclusively and I still think the Glock trigger and grip angle are better for a high speed, high stress engagement.
-I don't buy into the "real men carry a caliber that begins with a "4"" bullshit, so the 9 vs 45 debate just does not exist in my mind.
-I'm not ate-up with the zombie dumb-ass so, IMO, any handgun that works is probably gonna do what you need it to.
-MY 1911s run run like a mutha and I'd be lying if I said that I considered a Glock to be more reliable, because honestly, my current 1911s in 45 have been more reliable than my 19s.:confused:
-At the end of the day, it comes down to : "Which gun am I actually gonna have on me?" Answer? Glock 19.
It conceals better, it's lighter, it works with good hollowpoints available at Wal-Mart, I'm confident with the trigger and other controls under stress, it works bone-stock, it don't rust (much), parts are cheap, readily available and can be installed with a ball-point pen, it's a cheap gun.
I have a buddy who still carries a 1911 and I'm totally happy with what he carries because ultimately, he's carrying it. He has a Glock 19 that I secretly wanted him to carry, but honestly, I'd rather him cover me with the 1911 that he's been carrying and shooting since 1991(he still calls it his 'new' gun) because I know he can use it, and I know that it works.
So that was a lot of rambling but you asked...
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Yes, please stop. 9mm FMJ is one of the worst defense rounds you can carry. You never "shoot to kill”. You shoot to stop a lethal threat. If they die, so be it. A FMJ 9mm may still kill them, but short of a solid CNS hit, it’s going to take a lot longer and that’s more time they have to work on killing you.
To the OP, with my screen name, you’d probably think the G-19 was my preferred choice for CCW. Until very recently, it was. Even in a Milt Sparks VM-II or EX, the G-19 was always uncomfortable and I had to choose my clothing carefully. I recently picked up a Colt Rail Gun for competition. As luck would have it, a well worn 1911 EX holster and Sparks 1911 IWB mag pouch came up for a paltry $50. I couldn’t pass that up, figuring it would be good for wearing to and from matches. Imagine my surprise when I found it more comfortable to wear than my G-19 in an EX, even with the spare mag IWB on the other side. Not only that, I can now use a wider selection of shirts without printing.
It works so well, I recently picked up a S&W 1911PD off this board for CCW. That way I can do extended range sessions with the Colt and slip on the clean PD when I’m done. After swapping a polymer mainspring housing, Wilson bulletproof slide stop & single side safety, and a short recoil plunger for the full length guide rod, the PD weighs 39oz loaded with nine 230gr Gold Dots vs. 33oz for the G-19 with sixteen 127gr +P+ Ranger SXT’s. A 6oz difference isn’t enough to make a difference and carried IWB, I think the 5” 1911 slide stabilizes the gun slightly better. Sure, I’d rather have sixteen 9mm +P+ rounds than nine .45’s, but the .45 is reassuring in cold weather when assailants may be wearing heavier clothing. In my case, I was often leaving the G-19 in the glove box and carrying a much more comfortable and concealable 3” Model 66 .357 mag. Far less ideal than the 1911 with 50% more capacity.
I still contend that using a 1911 for defense is best left to those who fully understand the platform and can perform most maintenance functions short of fitting a slid & frame themselves. Without that knowledge (or even with it), I’d highly recommend LAV’s 1911 operators course for anyone carrying a 1911.
Funkenstein,
Generally, you want to deliver the most possible energy into the badguy and stop the threat ASAP. Whether or not it kills him is an afterthought, you need to stop the threat.
A fmj round tends to over-penetrate and go straight through the attacker. This is not good for several reasons......it may hit an innocent bystander behind him, it does not provide enough force to stop him (unless you hit CNS), it gives him a chance to shoot you, and he may end up bleeding out anyway.....AFTER he already stayed in the fight long enough to kill you.
The HP round opens up and stops inside the badguy (theoretically) which delivers ALL the bullets energy to his body. This does more damage to him (i.e. takes him out of the fight sooner), and is safer for all the innocent people who may be behind him.
Your theory is much more dangerous to yourself and the people around you.
ETA: glocktogo beat me to it
I've been in the same situation you're in for quite awhile.
I really like the 1911 for what it is, the history, looks, feel in hand, delicious trigger, accurate, old-school... whatever.
I have a couple or three custom 1911s and the 45s are stone-cold reliable. I like to shoot Single Stack and CDP and even have a 9mm 1911 just like my 45 for Steel Challenge and just messin' around.
I am also extremely fond of a Glock 19 and carry one daily because they just conceal better for me and the weight is much better for me because I honestly carry from approximately 0600-2000 or later EVERY DAY.
I use my 19 to play the games too but I train on the Glock exclusively and I still think the Glock trigger and grip angle are better for a high speed, high stress engagement.
-I don't buy into the "real men carry a caliber that begins with a "4"" bullshit, so the 9 vs 45 debate just does not exist in my mind.
-I'm not ate-up with the zombie dumb-ass so, IMO, any handgun that works is probably gonna do what you need it to.
-MY 1911s run run like a mutha and I'd be lying if I said that I considered a Glock to be more reliable, because honestly, my current 1911s in 45 have been more reliable than my 19s.:confused:
-At the end of the day, it comes down to : "Which gun am I actually gonna have on me?" Answer? Glock 19.
It conceals better, it's lighter, it works with good hollowpoints available at Wal-Mart, I'm confident with the trigger and other controls under stress, it works bone-stock, it don't rust (much), parts are cheap, readily available and can be installed with a ball-point pen, it's a cheap gun.
I have a buddy who still carries a 1911 and I'm totally happy with what he carries because ultimately, he's carrying it. He has a Glock 19 that I secretly wanted him to carry, but honestly, I'd rather him cover me with the 1911 that he's been carrying and shooting since 1991(he still calls it his 'new' gun) because I know he can use it, and I know that it works.
So that was a lot of rambling but you asked...
Do you still shoot your 1911's in single stack, or did you switch all comp guns to glock too?
Funkenstein,
Generally, you want to deliver the most possible energy into the badguy and stop the threat ASAP. Whether or not it kills him is an afterthought, you need to stop the threat.
A fmj round tends to over-penetrate and go straight through the attacker. This is not good for several reasons......it may hit an innocent bystander behind him, it does not provide enough force to stop him (unless you hit CNS), it gives him a chance to shoot you, and he may end up bleeding out anyway.....AFTER he already stayed in the fight long enough to kill you.
The HP round opens up and stops inside the badguy (theoretically) which delivers ALL the bullets energy to his body. This does more damage to him (i.e. takes him out of the fight sooner), and is safer for all the innocent people who may be behind him.
Your theory is much more dangerous to yourself and the people around you.
ETA: glocktogo beat me to it
Great minds think alike. Almost scarily so in this case! :D
Funkenstein
02-16-12, 23:03
Ok, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the input. I hope you saw some of my theory behind it but my theory is obviously flawed.
I hope that it will also put you at ease knowing that I only started doing this a few days ago. :happy:
Wrx04—I carried, was issued, or qualified on a 1911 from 1986 until 2011 in military, LE, and civilian use. Likewise, I have had a G19 available from 1990 through 2012. Both pistols have worked very well for me.
I strongly recommend that you pick one pistol type and standardize on it. Whatever pistol type you choose be sure to get 2-3 identical pistols—one to carry, one to train with, and perhaps one to serve as a spare if you can afford to do so.
Except for a stock WWII production USGI 1911 I was issued in the military, all the 1911’s I had were high quality custom pistols. The properly built and maintained 1911’s I relied on proved as reliable as my 9 mm Glocks—however the 1911’s took a lot more time, money, and effort to get there and stay that way than a Glock. A G17 carries about the same as a 1911, while a G19 is a bit more compact and a touch easier to conceal for me; both Glocks and 1911’s are relatively easy to carry when using quality holsters—for all intents and purposes they are the same thickness. Both 9 mm Glocks and quality built 1911’s are some of the most durable pistols available—it is not uncommon to reach lifespans in excess of 100,000 rounds with proper care and maintenance.
The 1911’s I have used have all been substantially more accurate than Glocks. I prefer pistols like the 1911 that have an ergonomic ambi manual safety—something not available on Glocks. Given the problems that 4th gen Glocks and post 2010 3rd gen Glocks have exhibited, custom 1911’s may prove a surer bet.
For a variety of reasons outlined below I retired my 1911’s at the beginning of 2011 and am currently qual’d on and carry 9 mm Glocks and the M&P45.
The G19 weighs less than a 1911 and the extra loaded mags are substantially lighter—as I have gotten older, my back has come to appreciate this advantage of Glocks. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a 1911. The greater magazine capacity of a G19 can be a significant advantage when facing multiple opponents; less mag changes also turn out to be easier to deal with if you loose the use of one arm/hand. Now that I am using RDS on my handguns, it turns out is a lot easier to mount an RDS on a Glock than a 1911. It is easier to slap a light onto a Glock, than a typical 1911. Glocks are substantially less expensive than a custom 1911 and I can do my own upgrades and maintenance rather than having to send the pistol off to one of the rare pistolsmiths that truly understands how to build a quality 1911 carry or duty pistol. If you have to purchase your own practice ammo, 9 mm is a whole lot cheaper, allowing you to get more practice. Finally, after having been shooting for nearly 3 decades, I find the lower recoil of 9mm to be easier on my hands and does not require as much concentration and practice to shoot as well as .45 ACP.
Note--based on my recent training results, I plan on transitioning to all 9 mm pistols in the forthcoming year, initially the 9 mm Glocks I currently have available, but as soon as possible to all M&P9’s.
Look at your specific requirements, body build, and how well you shoot each pistol--NEVER go by how a pistol "feels", but always assess your ability with a specific pistol based on quantitative measurements of performance (scores and times over a variety of shooting drills and tests like the 3 Defoor pistol tests, 500 point aggregate, 99 drill, FAST test, etc...). Once you have done this, then I suspect you will be able to wisely choose the best pistol for your needs.
Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to carrying it. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.
I carried a Colt Commander for a good while. One evening while walking my dog(this is an middle class/upper middle class area,gated communities, etc,) we came upon 3 guys stripping an auto they evidently stole and placed in this spot earlier. I noticed them but never broke stride and went on down the road. Long story short they came out of the bushes and approached us with bad intentions,at this point I wasn't feeling very confident about my situation particularly with only 9 rounds and no reload. To make matters worse it was the one time I chose not to carry "cocked and locked". My small rotty showed them his bad intentions (foaming,snarling,barking and lunging),they left not a word said.
My friend a security guard currently at a section 8 development carries a G19 I setup for him. He and another guard were involved in a shootout against a guy with a full-auto uzi, he fired 10 rounds and the other guard fired 8 rounds while under a barrage of gunfire from the perp. Neither of them hit him, he was later caught by West Palm police.
A guy I met at my local gun store looking to purchase a glock because his was "evidence" after a shootout he was involved in. He was leaving a friends house in a not so good neigborhood late at night and was approached by 2 men, one armed with a 9mm handgun the other with an AK47. He drew on them in fear for his life and emptied his G19 in their direction , he was hit by one 9mm and
one AK round. They fled and someone upstairs was watching over him. I can name one more instance I know of where it was 3 perps versus one CCP holder and his family, he came out on top killing one and injuring another while the driver fled.
All this to say I carry a G19/G26 with a spare G17 mag. Perps are usually in groups nowadays, and as such capacity and of course training are both critical.
My .02
Alaskapopo
02-17-12, 00:49
I find the 1911 much more comfortable to carry than the Glock. The 1911 is much heavier though. Pretty much everyone on the internet will tell you to carry the Glock. I like the Milt Sparks Versa-Max for the 1911. I have yet to find a comfortable IWB holster for the Glock 19.
The capacity issue comes up a lot. I have used airsoft 1911s loaded to 9 rounds in FOF classes including Southnarc's AMIS; getting solid hits was way more of an issue. Magazine capacity has never really been a problem in these classes much to my surprise.
Whatever pistol you use educate yourself on what is required to keep it reliable.
The Versa Max is a great holster that I used for my 1911's when I carried one. Its also the holster I use with my Glock 26. I did not think much about capacity until at a training I saw an officer involved shooting who was shot in the face with a .357 mag but by the grace of God the round did not kill him. He fell to the ground and opened up with his Glock. he was able to keep the shooter pinned in the car by shear volume of fire before he gave up and drove off. Had that been a 1911 he would have been out of ammo too soon. I carry my 17 on duty with +2 extenders on the mags for a total of 20 rounds on tap. Its nice to know I will probably never need to reload in a gun fight. The main reason I stopped carrying my Wilson CBQ was what DocGKR spoke of. A 1911 can be a reliable weapon but it takes maintance. I shoot quite a bit for training and in competion. I found myself wearing my Wilson out and I did not have a spare. I had a Kimber Series 1 without a light rail as a spare but that mandated me switching duty holsters. Anyway my Wilson ran great for a long time then little things started to pop up and I would fix them like the plunger tube falling off the gun, the ejector getting loose, new extractors. What would happen is I would get a malfunction and find something else that needed work. I got to where I did not trust the gun. I sent it back to Wilson at one point and paid over $600 and they did not even complete the work I asked and I ended doing some of it myself. Anyway my point is 1911's are maintance intensive to keep the same degree of reliablity you get with a Glock. What you gain with a 1911 is a better trigger and greater accuracy. For me it was not worth it in the end. I ended up carrying the Wilson for 6 years and now I am back to Glocks.
Pat
If you want it to go "bang", carry the G19.
If you want it to look pretty and start conversations when you show it to your buddies, get a nice 1911.
Owned a Wilson Tactical Supergrade and Les Baer TRS, and refuse to ever own a 1911 again. I like my firearms well-made (Baer was worse than a hi-point. Cut myself taking it down on the burrs in that thing once, even!) and not falling apart (Wilson, rear sight was shifting all over the place--twice--until they replaced it with their previous model) on me after a couple hundred rounds on the square range, or having multiple failures past the 1,000 round mark due to absurd tolerances (Baer).
if i was going to carry a dated steel single stack pistol with a stellar trigger it would be an HK p7 not a 1911.
the G19 may be the best CCW gun of all time.
Alaskapopo
02-17-12, 04:12
From a carry newbie. I've been carrying concealed as a civilian for only about 6 months.
I carried an M9 on a belt overseas on the FOB and a safariland leg rig outside the wire.
I had a less than stellar brand compact pistol (taurus pt111) that I carried for the better part of 5 months. It was small lightweight and 100% reliable through about 1200 rounds of fmj, and 200 rounds of gold dot jhp's. Not a high round count, but it never hiccuped. I carried this IWB in a CBST lookalike made by Tommy Theis.
I decided I wanted better aftermarket following and known reliability, so I traded to Tauri and bought a G19. It has been less than reliable with 10 FTE through my first 500 rounds of ownership ~3 weeks now. I will carry it when it proves itself reliable.
Being it's cold here in IA I have been carrying my 1911 that is 100% reliable with ball and fmj ammo. It's heavy, not the easiest to conceal with just a t-shirt, but under a jacket it disappears. I carry a spare mag next to my wallet in my weak side front pocket, so with two mags I'm up to g19 capacity.
I'm accurate with it, it's reliable thus it's comforting to have on me.
I chose the g19 because of relatively cheap ammo compared to the .45 as I plan on doing some gaming with it as well as carrying it when it proves itself reliable. I can conceal it easily and it's not heavy in comparison to the 1911.
I don't know if that's the type of response you want, but in all reality it comes down to what gives YOU a warm fuzzy on your hip and in your head.
Ok misconception you have there that ball will work better in the cold than JHP's because you think the JHP's will expand in the clothing and not go deep enough. That is FALSE. Its cold up here in Alaska too. JHP's don't expand in clothing in fact the penetration is increased compared to shootings with less clothing involved because the bullet expands more slowly because there is clothing material in the hollowpoint cavity slowing down the works. Using ball ammo in a defensive pistol is a poor choice except in pocket autos likethe .380 because they don't have the power to expand and penetrate. But for 9mm and up go with a good JHP load not ball. If your pistol will not function with JHP bullets get a new pistol.
Pat
Nephrology
02-17-12, 07:11
I feel like I've read this thread many, many times before....
I carry a Glock 19. I don't really think I need to elaborate further as to why. All good info above.
Re: 9mm "stopping power," and to the dude who carries FMJ at the top of his mag : that's dumb. There is no mystical "energy," either, outside of maybe your yoga classes. There is the kinetic energy of the round that allows it to move from your chamber to the BG's thoracic cavity - there is yet further conversion of potential energy into kinetic energy as the JHP decelerates inside your BG's pleural cavity - and there is the kinetic energy of the blood quickly evacuating from the BG's body. But this mysterious "Gun Chi" or "stopping power Psy-energy" I keep hearing about does NOT exist.
Bullets don't "dump energy." They put holes in things and decelerate and expand as they do. The ones that expand the most as they decelerate will do the most damage to anatomical structures like vasculature and blood bearing organs. Death and incapacitation come from euvolemia (depletion of the BG's blood) or disruption of the central nervous system, by hitting the spine or brain. There is no magic energy ball that goes with your bullet as it travels down range. It is simply another property of the cartridge, which is about as important as the material of the projectile, its weight in grains and what gun it was fired from (Not Very.) As long as the bullet can penetrate 12-14" of ballisic gelatin (thats what BG stands for of course!) and properly expand through a variety of intermediates then it will contribute to the two things that actually kill people - blood loss and destruction of the CNS.
Ok misconception you have there that ball will work better in the cold than JHP's because you think the JHP's will expand in the clothing and not go deep enough. That is FALSE. Its cold up here in Alaska too. JHP's don't expand in clothing in fact the penetration is increased compared to shootings with less clothing involved because the bullet expands more slowly because there is clothing material in the hollowpoint cavity slowing down the works. Using ball ammo in a defensive pistol is a poor choice except in pocket autos likethe .380 because they don't have the power to expand and penetrate. But for 9mm and up go with a good JHP load not ball. If your pistol will not function with JHP bullets get a new pistol.
Pat
I believe you misunderstood me, I only carry Hornady 230gr XTP's in my 1911 when it is not on the range. I can't afford to shoot jhp's at the range all day, so I practice with 230gr ball ammo. I have roughly ~2500 rounds of fmj, and ~250 jhp's through it. I understand the clothing/expansion issue, and carry only jhp's in my pistols when carrying. Gold dot 115gr +p for 9mm and Hornady XTP 230 gr for .45.
Shokr21: Why are you picking two of the worst performing JHP loads for your pistols? There are fare better options than Gold Dot 115 gr +P and XTP 230 gr....you might check here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Army Chief
02-17-12, 10:20
I feel like I've read this thread many, many times before...
Concur, though I still carry a 1911.
AC
Do you still shoot your 1911's in single stack, or did you switch all comp guns to glock too?
I've tried to go all Glock, but I just can't do it.
I freekin' LIKE 1911s and I enjoy shooting 'em a lot, so I flip flop around between a Glock 19 and a 1911 in competition. I don't have much trouble making the transition.
I decided to go all Glock back in October, but I'm back on a 1911 kick again...
Concur, though I still carry a 1911.
AC
This is a once a week thing here, now, Chief. And I, too, still carry a 1911. I just plain shoot it better than the Glock.
Regardless, as I've said before on these G19 vs 1911 threads...Pick what works best for you and shut the **** up about it.
Honor First
H
Beat Trash
02-17-12, 11:07
I prefer the Glock 19.
I carried a 1911 off and on for a while, about 20 years ago. It's a slim gun that carries well for it's weight. I never owned an aluminum framed 1911.
But the Glock 19 has so many advantages that I've no intention of going back.
I've carried a Glock 19 off-duty since about 1999 or so.
The gun feels great in my hand.
It has what to me is the perfect size combination of concealability and shootability. I can conceal it all four seasons, to include the muggy summers found in SW Ohio.
It is accurate enough for it's intended task. While I do own a more accurate 1911, the accuracy of my Glock 19 is sufficient. What little the Glock 19 may give up in mechanical accuracy to a well built 1911 is not enough for me to be concerned about.
It can take more abuse and neglect. Yes we all should take care of our equipment. But sometimes things happen. My Glock has gotten dunked for about an hour during a canoe mishap. Worn during vacations in August where the humidity and sweating caused condensation to form inside of the magwell, and the magazine body was wet. Dust, dirt, grime, lint, can form in the gun when carried concealed. When my kids were young and I was a newer officer going to court when I was supposed to be sleeping, well there's only 24 hours in a day. Sometimes you might not get a chance to clean that gun as often as you would like to. My Glock could be counted on to perform.
I'll always be fond of a well made 1911, and will continue to own one. Just like my fondness for a 4" S&W 686 revolver. But neither of these will ever replace my Glock 19 as a carry gun.
With that said, if someone carries a 1911, can shoot it effectively and is satisfied with their choice, God bless and have at it. I'm not about to argue the point. As others have posted, experiment to find what works best for you, then train your ass off to learn how to get the most out of what you picked. There is no perfect gun.
And Delta and SF carry Glocks. There goes your silly argument about "I carry what HRT uses."
Hopefully there will be more logic forthwith.
I'm kind of surprised I don't whole-heatedly agree with your point, but one thing came to mind when I read it. On deployment, especially where SOF guys go, I'd want nothing but the Glock. Reliability and maintenance make it a massively better decision over a 1911. However, for an SRT or SWAT (and especially civvy Joe Snuffy), where the elements are usually much less demanding and parts and knowledge is much more readily available, a 1911 seems like a good option. Plus CAG and Group shoot so damn much that they're good at anything. Joe civvy would probably benefit much more from the ergonomics of the 1911 - of course that's based on the shooter himself, and OP said he was good with both. Personally, I can shoot a 1911 much better than my Glock, for now.
Nephrology
02-17-12, 11:29
This is a once a week thing here, now, Chief. And I, too, still carry a 1911. I just plain shoot it better than the Glock.
Regardless, as I've said before on these G19 vs 1911 threads...Pick what works best for you and shut the **** up about it.
Honor First
H
Amen....
RancidSumo
02-17-12, 12:18
One thing I've noticed in my own shooting as well as seeing many other people shoot both of these guns (although none of them have been extremely well trained, none are complete idiots with guns either) is that shooting more accurately doesn't always mean shooting better.
Virtually everyone I've seen shoot, shoots a 1911 more accurately in slow fire, accuracy oriented drills. Put them on the clock and that goes out the window.
I find malfunction drills, reloads, and my shot to shot splits are all much faster with a Glock or M&P than they are with a 1911. I may not be able to get that superb accuracy that I can with my dad's Wilson but I can hit the target with acceptable groups much faster with a 9mm polymer gun.
I would carry (a) what I shoot the best with (b) what I'm most familiar with and (c) what I'm most likely to carry on a daily basis with (c) being the most important IMO. If you're not going to carry it because its too big and bulky then it really doesn't do you any good.
I love the 1911 platform and I've carried a 1911 as my primary ccw for many years, everything from a full size, all steel government to an alloy framed Dan Wesson CCO. I'm not sure if I've just gotten lazy or what but I just do not wish to "try" to conceal a 1911 anymore on a regular basis. Even with a great holster (Brommeland Gunleather Max-Con V) and a good gun belt its still not fun some days. I've since gone to a M&P 9mm compact. Even though I reload, .45 gets pricey after a while and I just don't wish to have my carry gun rule what I wear on a daily basis.
If cost (both the gun and the ammunition) is not a factor and you think you are the type to be vigilant in carrying your 1911 daily, then the 1911 is a great weapon, if you have one that runs 100% and you trust your life to it.
I love 1911's and am fortunate enough to have some incredible examples of them. I shoot them well, love the heritage, love the hand fitted beauty of them, and I think that every shooter should have at least one or they are a commie.
I carry a Glock 19 RTF2.
Lots of folks seem to have misconceptions as to which mil and LE organizations are continuing to regularly use 1911's; things have changed a lot over the last decade--just because 1911's were in use at certain places in the early 2000's does not mean they still are...
charmcitycop
02-17-12, 13:28
......
I have a reliable and accurate commander sized 1911. I have carried it. But I like a lighter, higher capacity for it's weight, pistol. Like my P-30.
Shokr21: Why are you picking two of the worst performing JHP loads for your pistols? There are fare better options than Gold Dot 115 gr +P and XTP 230 gr....you might check here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
See my sig line, reading and learning.
That's what was available at the time, and my stock is running low as I regularly try to shoot at minimum a mag of my carry ammo at least once a month to rotate old to new. I'll read the link and hopefully take something from it (I'm sure I will) and more than likely make a change.
Thank you for the link
My own take on this exact topic:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45
The differences have been sorted very "scientifically" over and over leaving trails of information with measurements and other such things. In the end with these two options available it is just what your body shape is in relation to your clothing which is affected by the weather. Atop this, there's plenty of personal preferences and ideals. For example, you shoot a 1911 better, you may feel obligated to carry what you know you can operate best with.
You may not care about slight printing as much as the next guy, too. See how personal this gets? :moil:
Of the two I can't decide personally, because I carry one or the other based on what I'll be doing, where I'm going, and how I feel. All other factors apply subconsciously. :fie:
Handguns are too much, I can't take deciding any longer. :suicide:
I was at the gun store today and went with the G19 (and a G26 to keep things in the family).
I considered a couple 1911's, I have a friend with a custom 1911 and it's a REALLY nice gun. However, the Glocks won out for all the above mentioned reason.
I am relatively new to pistols and need to shoot a lot, so 9mm was almost a must for me. Not to mention I would be absolutely sick if something happened to a $2000+ 1911.
Happy shopping!
Giff
Was not aware that FMJ did not count as deadly force. Maybe you should load blanks first, then ratshot, then FMJ, them save your JHP for when you REALLY mean it. Seriously, get professional training.
Only state I know of that forbids ordinary citizens to use JHP is New Jersey. They have a local Hague Convention law that ordinary citizens can only possess FMJ. (Naturally, law enforcement can use all the hollow points they want on ordinary citizens).
Seriously, firearms are deadly weapons under the law and it won't make any legal difference what you load with.
Lots of folks seem to have misconceptions as to which mil and LE organizations are continuing to regularly use 1911's; things have changed a lot over the last decade--just because 1911's were in use at certain places in the early 2000's does not mean they still are...
Thank you. G21 SF RTF2 might have been created for a unit that folks say uses custom 1911s. ;)
It's gotta be the reliable gun with more bullets. Almost always; go with more bullets.
goodoleboy
02-17-12, 18:39
I would go with the Glock, hands down. I would rather adjust my wardrobe to conceal a thicker slide, and have twice the ammo to defend myself with.
Short and sweet, in our modern world, 1911s are classy guns you show to your friends; Glocks are guns you show to your enemies.
Psalms144.1
02-17-12, 19:44
Given those two options, I would find a pre-2010 manufacture 3rd Gen G19 and buy a LOT of training ammunition to support the courses I was going to shoot.
Seriously, for the cost of a decent 1911 set up for duty/ccw reliability, you could buy a Glock, a bunch of magazines/ammunition, and attend at LEAST two good training courses.
I say all of the above in spite of the fact that the 1911 was my first love in the pistol world, and easily in the top three of my favorite pistols of all time. It's simply the fact that, while the 1911 was state of the art for most of last century (when properly tweaked by a competent 'smith and religiously maintained), it's showing its age when compared to any number of ugly polymer 9mms.
Regards,
Kevin
Nephrology
02-17-12, 21:06
Given those two options, I would find a pre-2010 manufacture 3rd Gen G19 and buy a LOT of training ammunition to support the courses I was going to shoot.
Seriously, for the cost of a decent 1911 set up for duty/ccw reliability, you could buy a Glock, a bunch of magazines/ammunition, and attend at LEAST two good training courses.
I say all of the above in spite of the fact that the 1911 was my first love in the pistol world, and easily in the top three of my favorite pistols of all time. It's simply the fact that, while the 1911 was state of the art for most of last century (when properly tweaked by a competent 'smith and religiously maintained), it's showing its age when compared to any number of ugly polymer 9mms.
Regards,
Kevin
If I had exponentially more money and time to dedicate to firearms than I do now I would probably take a hard look at a pair of Dan Wesson Valors and their CCO models and send them all off for a workup by a good smith.
Tough choice. I'd say 1911 in commander size and have your spare mags.
Glocks are cool, but i've never been a fan. And compared to 1911's, Glocks are UGLY!
F-Trooper05
02-17-12, 21:30
Tough choice. I'd say 1911 in commander size and have your spare mags.
Glocks are cool, but i've never been a fan. And compared to 1911's, Glocks are UGLY!
Did Frontsite encourage a bunch of their students to join M4C or something? What the hell is up with all the new members lately???:help::confused::confused::confused:
Littlelebowski
02-17-12, 21:35
Tough choice. I'd say 1911 in commander size and have your spare mags.
Glocks are cool, but i've never been a fan. And compared to 1911's, Glocks are UGLY!
Did you know that SIG makes very pretty guns? The below seems made for you.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/p238_rbow_detail_l-tfb.png
Did you know that SIG makes very pretty guns? The below seems made for you.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/p238_rbow_detail_l-tfb.png
Congratulations, Sir! You just won the internets!
Honor First
H
davebee456
02-17-12, 22:11
I overheard a gun store salesman telling a customer that the new Rainbow Sig is a much more durable finish as good as melonite and tennifer, had to laugh to myself and I thought of this photo posted on here in the Sig post
Alaskapopo
02-18-12, 01:42
Tough choice. I'd say 1911 in commander size and have your spare mags.
Glocks are cool, but i've never been a fan. And compared to 1911's, Glocks are UGLY!
What are you going to hang it on the wall or something or do you plan on putting it in a holster. Looks should have no value at all in a defensive weapon.
Pat
Glock 19.
l sold both my 1911s. Honestly there never ending money pits and as hard as it was for me to admit it, just arent as reliable as a glock. l'm not saying you cant get one to run good, just not as good as a glock.
Obviously a 1911 blows away a glock in accuracy but where talking about shooting people here not tiny groups, a glock is more than accurate enough for that.
15 rounds or more is a big plus for the glock. l even picked up a g21 to shoot up the 8k .45 bullets l had left after l sold my 1911s.
I carried 1911s, fullsize and officers, for quite a long time. I actually found a 5" 1911 to be easier to conceal than a Glock 19 on my frame and with my clothes. But the 19 wins in so many other areas for me (not the least of which is cost, I dumped three $2k 1911s when I got out of them, plus the officers, plus the Mustang) that I'm dealing with the concealment issues.
The main drawbacks of the 1911 for me were the weight and the length of slide. the aluminum-frame officers (Kimber Compact Aluminum) fixed both those issues. The length was only an issue because I went from spending most of my day on my feet to most of my day on my ass and even IWB it was uncomfortable and felt like I was sitting on the muzzle.
RagweedZulu
02-18-12, 08:56
It's odd how the G19 seems to be the ONLY alternative to the 1911 here.
I'm a Glock carrier off duty, but prefer mine in .40, .45 or 10mm.
Nephrology
02-18-12, 09:46
It's odd how the G19 seems to be the ONLY alternative to the 1911 here.
I'm a Glock carrier off duty, but prefer mine in .40, .45 or 10mm.
People talk a lot about both. That's why. Not many people recommend a Glock 29 as an "only gun" for most people.
jmlshooter
02-18-12, 10:05
Just walked out of Cabela's with 1000 rounds of Glock 19 food for $200.
When I can do that for my 1911, we'll talk.
To the OP: I recommend you pick the one you shoot better under stress. Once you've made your choice, master it. The shooter is so much more important than the firearm. While the extra capacity may be comforting, I recall a quote from a very experienced shooter at 10-8 forums ( can't recall who ), "You are more likely to run out of time than ammunition." I tend to agree with this statement.
For what it's worth: FBI agents assigned to computer crime, bank fraud, monitoring interstate child porn, etc. carry issue Glocks.
FBI agents assigned to Hostage Rescue Team or SWAT carry single stack 1911s, having "upgraded" from the Browning. Food for thought.
And FWIW, some SWAT agents carry their Glock in the course of their day to day investigations and only use the 1911 on call outs. And some SWAT teams are issued G21's and don't have 1911's.
And the violation has nothing to do with the gun choice. Your statement implies bank fraud and kiddie porn agents don't need the 1911 "sex pistol." Fact is SWAT agents come from all over and some work those violations you mention. Also there are some non-SWAT agents who carry the standard Glock and are far more prepared than some SWAT agents. Anyone who chooses a sidearm based upon whatever high speed "operator" carries is a fool and I would consider them to be an internet commando.
It's odd how the G19 seems to be the ONLY alternative to the 1911 here.
I'm a Glock carrier off duty, but prefer mine in .40, .45 or 10mm.
This is 100% a wrong statement. I've seen multiple recommendations for GOOD sigs, HKs and M&Ps. Plus assorted others depending on the persons needs.
It's odd how the G19 seems to be the ONLY alternative to the 1911 here.
I'm a Glock carrier off duty, but prefer mine in .40, .45 or 10mm.
I suspect it's because a gun is most reliable in the caliber for which it was originally designed. IMO the Glock line peaked with the 19. I carry a 21 and 27 daily but don't have the option to carry a 19 on duty.
Nephrology
02-18-12, 10:51
I suspect it's because a gun is most reliable in the caliber for which it was originally designed. IMO the Glock line peaked with the 19. I carry a 21 and 27 daily but don't have the option to carry a 19 on duty.
Agreed. As a long time glock shooter, if I was required to switch over to .40 or .45 I would look to an M&P or maybe an H&K.
I hope no one gets offended by this video. But I have to admit it is the most caveman way of explaining your dilemma.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfJj90eNIfE
I hope no one gets offended by this video. But I have to admit it is the most caveman way of explaining your dilemma.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfJj90eNIfE
Looks like someone was on FB today lol
I don't think you will find many fans of his on here (and for very good ****ing reasons) but I don't disagree with much of what he says in that video.
However there is no excuse for the shirt.... :rolleyes: Just say NO to deuche jerseys...
When did James join a Swedish metal band?
In any case, while I hope the OP has gotten something out of this thread, this is essentially the same 1911 vs. X discussion that's been hashed out here and elsewhere countless times. I don't think the discussion is ever going to change until there's some sort of revolution in handgun manufacturing that allows companies to spit these things out on assembly lines and have then work on par Glocks, HKs, and M&Ps.
I have carried a Glock 19 for 4 years now and my only complaint is it's thickness.
I love the satisfaction of having 15 rounds and no safety to fumble with under stress.
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Anyway, I love my Glock 19 and find it's a great carry option.
IMO you should never want to try for a kill - you should shoot till the threat doesn't exist any more.
Whether that means the gun hits the ground or the bad guy does, same/same. but if a guy goes down still holding a weapon, continue to asses the threat...
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Yep Completely weird and very stupid.
Of the two you mentioned. I'd carry a 1911, only because the G19 is to small for my hand and I wind up pinching the snot out of my pinky when I try to reload one quickly. That's why I carry a G34. The full size grip fits me much better.
I've carried 1911s, M&Ps, HKs, etc. I always wind up going back to Glock. Reliability, parts and accessory availability, light weight, durable finish and accurate. Not to mention great capacity.
1911 if it is an expensive model just think of if you have to use it in self defense and an expensive 1911 is "may be" in the evidence locker untill whenever. Now take the Glock,,,it will do everything the 1911 will do but costs way less.
RagweedZulu
02-18-12, 23:21
This is 100% a wrong statement. I've seen multiple recommendations for GOOD sigs, HKs and M&Ps. Plus assorted others depending on the persons needs.
Grizzly, I'm talking about on THIS thread. It seems to be either the G19 or the 1911. I know the OP asked about those two specifically, but there is plenty of compromise in between if a guy is trying to balance stopping power and concealability etc. My G29SF has just about taken over as my daily carry pistol. It does everything I need it to and is fairly easy to carry. For me.
You can retract your "100% wrong" statement now...
RagweedZulu
02-18-12, 23:26
Agreed. As a long time glock shooter, if I was required to switch over to .40 or .45 I would look to an M&P or maybe an H&K.
No thank you, sir. I've owned and shot/carried them all. I've always come back to Glocks and eventually sold off the other stuff. That's me.
And while some may think the Glock peaked with the 9mm, I prefer to defend my wife and kids with something that's got a little more punch. But again, that's me. I own and carry quite a few Glocks in .40, .45 and most recently 10mm. Never had a problem with any of them. So for me, that's where Glock peaked.
Alaskapopo
02-19-12, 00:51
No thank you, sir. I've owned and shot/carried them all. I've always come back to Glocks and eventually sold off the other stuff. That's me.
And while some may think the Glock peaked with the 9mm, I prefer to defend my wife and kids with something that's got a little more punch. But again, that's me. I own and carry quite a few Glocks in .40, .45 and most recently 10mm. Never had a problem with any of them. So for me, that's where Glock peaked.
Its good to carry what makes you feel good but its very true that historically Glocks are not as reliable in the larger calibers as they are in 9mm. I switched out department to Glock 17's simply because I don't trust the Glock 22. Seen them have issues with KB's and malfunctions with weapon lights attached. I would rather have a reliable 9mm than a so so .40. In fact I prefer the 9mm over the .40 even if the guns are equal in other ways. The 9mm is easier to shoot well and holds more ammo. The difference in terminal ballistics is so slight that it does not concern me.
Pat
"...only because the G19 is to small for my hand and I wind up pinching the snot out of my pinky when I try to reload one quickly"
excatm76: I have the same problem when reloading a G19 with G19 mags, that is why the only G19 mag I use is the one in the pistol, while ALL my reload mags are G17 mags--thus I NEVER have to worry about pinching ever again...
It's odd how the G19 seems to be the ONLY alternative to the 1911 here.
I'm a Glock carrier off duty, but prefer mine in .40, .45 or 10mm.
Not for everyone. I don't own a single Glock although HH6 owns a couple. I carry one of two HK's on duty with a J-frame as a bug. I also own a 1911 too, but then I think everyone should own an "immediate action trainer".
Magic_Salad0892
02-19-12, 02:36
Its good to carry what makes you feel good but its very true that historically Glocks are not as reliable in the larger calibers as they are in 9mm. I switched out department to Glock 17's simply because I don't trust the Glock 22. Seen them have issues with KB's and malfunctions with weapon lights attached. I would rather have a reliable 9mm than a so so .40. In fact I prefer the 9mm over the .40 even if the guns are equal in other ways. The 9mm is easier to shoot well and holds more ammo. The difference in terminal ballistics is so slight that it does not concern me.
Pat
Dont forget that its cheaper, easier to shoot with one hand, and is easier to suppress.
Nephrology
02-19-12, 06:21
No thank you, sir. I've owned and shot/carried them all. I've always come back to Glocks and eventually sold off the other stuff. That's me.
And while some may think the Glock peaked with the 9mm, I prefer to defend my wife and kids with something that's got a little more punch. But again, that's me. I own and carry quite a few Glocks in .40, .45 and most recently 10mm. Never had a problem with any of them. So for me, that's where Glock peaked.
I used to own a Glock 21 but found my hands were not large enough to control it under match conditions. I have not found that the frame and construction of the original glock pistol lends itself to solid performance in .40 caliber, especially relative to other guns whose engineering was built around it like the M&P and the SIG p229.
hotrodder636
02-19-12, 07:14
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Anyway, I love my Glock 19 and find it's a great carry option.
I would be careful with that practice....in some states if you draw you firearm and shoot someone and use "deadly force" the intent is to kill them. I would check your state law and take a CCW course (if you haven't) and learn what is kosher and what is not. Just my 2 cents...
Too, there may be a psychological component to the 1911 vs. Glock decision.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash? Can they not sense his inordinate reticence?
Littlelebowski
02-19-12, 11:43
Too, there may be a psychological component to the 1911 vs. Glock decision.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash? Can they not sense his inordinate reticence?
My god, you are full of shit. This is not 1911forum.com where people with fragile egos that are emotionally attached to their pretty, expensive pistols gush on and on about "real guns are made of wood and steel, derp derp" and spew outdated, factually incorrect "facts" about which units are using which pistols. This is a technical discussion forum; a fact that has apparently not registered in your brain housing group yet. You're not contributing shit here; all you do is gibber and blather on about 1911s and HiPowers. If you're going to post; try facts, not ****ing garbage.
Too, there may be a psychological component to the 1911 vs. Glock decision.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash? Can they not sense his inordinate reticence?
Lol...that was awesome...tactical poetry...:laugh:
Too, there may be a psychological component to the 1911 vs. Glock decision.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash? Can they not sense his inordinate reticence?
I just blew coffee thru my nose! :suicide:
I think LAV said it best. If you treat your gun like your lawnmower the 1911 is not for you.
jmlshooter
02-19-12, 13:33
I think you got trolled, Lebowski.
I refuse to believe univibe is real.
Littlelebowski
02-19-12, 13:35
I think you got trolled, Lebowski.
I refuse to believe univibe is real.
Oh, I believe he's real and that's the sad part.
Seriously? This is still open? I've already said it here and elsewhere on this exact subject.
Carry what works best for you and shut the **** up about it. You like Glock, he likes Sig, someone else likes Beretta and on and on. Who gives a shit. We're all adults here. You're not going to convince anyone to change their mind. I shoot my 1911s better than I shoot my Glocks (and yes, I've given both equal time), and nothing anyone says will change what rides in my holster. Just like the inverse is true. Nothing I could say, even if I wanted to, would change your mind about your Glocks. So enough is enough.
Lock this shit down before it continues to devolve into pure retard. You never go full retard...
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Littlelebowski
02-19-12, 14:44
Seriously? This is still open? I've already said it here and elsewhere on this exact subject.
Carry what works best for you and shut the **** up about it. You like Glock, he likes Sig, someone else likes Beretta and on and on. Who gives a shit. We're all adults here. You're not going to convince anyone to change their mind. I shoot my 1911s better than I shoot my Glocks (and yes, I've given both equal time), and nothing anyone says will change what rides in my holster. Just like the inverse is true. Nothing I could say, even if I wanted to, would change your mind about your Glocks. So enough is enough.
Lock this shit down before it continues to devolve into pure retard. You never go full retard...
Honor First
H
Technical discussion, not Univibe's tactical poetry and comparing Glocks to iPhones.
charmcitycop
02-19-12, 15:31
......
I'm not sure how anyone can seriously argue that the 1911 is a viable choice for the average shooter in the year 2012, without bringing up emotional/historical arguments. Practically, what does a 1911 offer over a modern polymer pistol such as the Glock or the HK? Weight, capacity, cost, modern reliability, ease of maintaince, manual of arms - the 1911 loses in all these categories. The only things the 1911 has in the year 2012 going for it is the slim profile and an amazing trigger. Are these two attributes enough to justify it as a primary carry piece over something else? I am not a 1911 hater. I like them quite a bit actually. They were a revolutionary sidearm in their day, and continued to be an excellent choice well into the 1980s. But being honest with oneself, what does the 1911 do that something like a Glock can't do cheaper, lighter, and with more rounds?
As long as arguments can be made for revolvers to be carried for defense, the 1911 should be safe for those who prefer it. I carry a Glock and the glorious custom 1911 is locked up safe.
Nephrology
02-19-12, 15:47
I'm not sure how anyone can seriously argue that the 1911 is a viable choice for the average shooter in the year 2012, without bringing up emotional/historical arguments. Practically, what does a 1911 offer over a modern polymer pistol such as the Glock or the HK? Weight, capacity, cost, modern reliability, ease of maintaince, manual of arms - the 1911 loses in all these categories. The only things the 1911 has in the year 2012 going for it is the slim profile and an amazing trigger. Are these two attributes enough to justify it as a primary carry piece over something else? I am not a 1911 hater. I like them quite a bit actually. They were a revolutionary sidearm in their day, and continued to be an excellent choice well into the 1980s. But being honest with oneself, what does the 1911 do that something like a Glock can't do cheaper, lighter, and with more rounds?
Dude they make your nuts bigger. Didn't you read Univibe's post? THE FELONIOUS YOUTH can see your bulging package and are all OMG and run away. It's just like in that Charles Bronson movie.
If we want the technical discussion, I'll answer charmcity's question as to what the 1911 does that keeps it relevant today.
While the Glock 19 does offer about 2x the number of rounds of the 1911, the tradeoff is in the girth of the grip. This presents two different complications. For one, the thickness of the grip does make concealing the pistol harder for certain people and body types. This is true for all double stack pistols, not only for the Glocks. The second issue is for shooters with smaller hands. Yes, there are changeable backstraps, but I know several people who cannot fit their hands around even the smallest grip of the Glocks or my HKs. My ex-fiance (as much as I hate to even bring that bitch up) is a prime example. A single stack pistol, whether a 1911 or otherwise, makes for an easier to control pistol for these folks. I also have a LE buddy who happens to be a "little person" who has a hard time shooting the Glock. Lucky for him, his department allows them to carry 1911s.
Reliability. God how I hate this line. Yes, I understand the 1911 costs a bunch more to get a reliable example compared to the Glock or other pistol, but when done right, they are just as reliable as any other pistol where the shooter does their part. Do 1911s require a bit more care? Sure, but not to the point some like to exaggerate it. I've put about 2700 rounds through a Wilson CQB between cleanings. I've fired about 1700 each through a pair of Nighthawks. Now are these HK P30 numbers? Of course not. But they aren't the "clean after every 100 rounds" some people like to make them out to be. The reliability issue comes from pistols that had been popularized back in the 70's and 80's era of the bullseye gun. In an effort to squeeze every last millimeter of accuracy out of the 1911, they fit them tighter and tighter, which was never the way the 1911 was intended to be built.
Accuracy. Hands down, the 1911 is one of the most accurate pistols ever built when executed properly. The accuracy is also aided by the weight that so many people complain about. The trade off with a lighter pistol is more felt recoil, which slows your follow-up shot. Besides, the weight distribution of the 1911 is balanced between frame and slide, whereas polymer pistols weight distribution is primarily in the slide, meaning a higher center of gravity and therefore, more of the recoil impulse is felt as the pistol transfers the energy.
Regardless, my point still stands. What point is there to rehash a topic that has been pulled apart more times than the magic bullet theory with Kennedy? Seriously? My choice of 1911 does affect you or anyone else. If I have better performance out of my 1911 than any other pistol, that's what rides in my holster. If you shoot the Glock better and have more faith in your Glock, fine. I'm not trying to change any minds. Just like you won't change mine. Let's stop the fanboy shit, ok?
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Hogsgunwild
02-19-12, 16:31
If we want the technical discussion, I'll answer charmcity's question as to what the 1911 does that keeps it relevant today.
While the Glock 19 does offer about 2x the number of rounds of the 1911, the tradeoff is in the girth of the grip. This presents two different complications. For one, the thickness of the grip does make concealing the pistol harder for certain people and body types. This is true for all double stack pistols, not only for the Glocks. The second issue is for shooters with smaller hands. Yes, there are changeable backstraps, but I know several people who cannot fit their hands around even the smallest grip of the Glocks or my HKs. My ex-fiance (as much as I hate to even bring that bitch up) is a prime example. A single stack pistol, whether a 1911 or otherwise, makes for an easier to control pistol for these folks. I also have a LE buddy who happens to be a "little person" who has a hard time shooting the Glock. Lucky for him, his department allows them to carry 1911s.
Reliability. God how I hate this line. Yes, I understand the 1911 costs a bunch more to get a reliable example compared to the Glock or other pistol, but when done right, they are just as reliable as any other pistol where the shooter does their part. Do 1911s require a bit more care? Sure, but not to the point some like to exaggerate it. I've put about 2700 rounds through a Wilson CQB between cleanings. I've fired about 1700 each through a pair of Nighthawks. Now are these HK P30 numbers? Of course not. But they aren't the "clean after every 100 rounds" some people like to make them out to be. The reliability issue comes from pistols that had been popularized back in the 70's and 80's era of the bullseye gun. In an effort to squeeze every last millimeter of accuracy out of the 1911, they fit them tighter and tighter, which was never the way the 1911 was intended to be built.
Accuracy. Hands down, the 1911 is one of the most accurate pistols ever built when executed properly. The accuracy is also aided by the weight that so many people complain about. The trade off with a lighter pistol is more felt recoil, which slows your follow-up shot. Besides, the weight distribution of the 1911 is balanced between frame and slide, whereas polymer pistols weight distribution is primarily in the slide, meaning a higher center of gravity and therefore, more of the recoil impulse is felt as the pistol transfers the energy.
Regardless, my point still stands. What point is there to rehash a topic that has been pulled apart more times than the magic bullet theory with Kennedy? Seriously? My choice of 1911 does affect you or anyone else. If I have better performance out of my 1911 than any other pistol, that's what rides in my holster. If you shoot the Glock better and have more faith in your Glock, fine. I'm not trying to change any minds. Just like you won't change mine. Let's stop the fanboy shit, ok?
Honor First
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Well said.
DeltaSierra
02-19-12, 16:37
Too, there may be a psychological component to the 1911 vs. Glock decision.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash? Can they not sense his inordinate reticence?
Whaaat? I don't believe that I just read that....
You are nuts.
Littlelebowski
02-19-12, 16:56
Dude they make your nuts bigger. Didn't you read Univibe's post? THE FELONIOUS YOUTH can see your bulging package and are all OMG and run away. It's just like in that Charles Bronson movie.
Nice....:D
Hogsgunwild
02-19-12, 17:02
Too, there may be a psychological component to the 1911 vs. Glock decision.
Consider the man who carries a 1911. He radiates aplomb as he strides through the city. His eye is intrepid, his gait cocksure, his countenance censorious. He need not fight; youthful gangsters feel his presence in their bones a block away.
Now consider the man who chooses to carry a firearm that more closely resembles an iPhone than it does one of John Moses Browning's noble creations. Does he move among the thugs with the same dash? Can they not sense his inordinate reticence?
Nothing cuter than a sophisticated ten year-old. Does your Mother know you are on the internet again?
JerryDefense
02-19-12, 17:47
I have carried a Glock 19 for 4 years now and my only complaint is it's thickness.
I love the satisfaction of having 15 rounds and no safety to fumble with under stress.
Something I do, which may be completely weird and stupid, is put 3 FMJ rounds at the top of my mag and the rest are Federal hollow point.
My theory is if I have to shoot someone I don't always want to try for a kill, hence the FMJ, if I need to fire more it's for a reason and then they receive hollow point henceforth. Is that dumb?
Anyway, I love my Glock 19 and find it's a great carry option.
Please cease putting the 3 fmj rounds in first!!!
If your do end up in a gun fight those rounds are the most likely to go right through the bad guy and hit someone else.
If you want a less effective round try the Glaser Safety Slug but just pray they are not wearing a winter coat or any other thick layer because you may just piss them off further.
My two-cents is to use Winchester Ranger SXT ammo. It is highly effective, comes 50 to the box, there is reduced muzzle flash and is widely used by LE across the nation. Just a great choice in ammo.
I don't see how anyone [with a solid grasp of the fundamentals] could shoot one handgun drastically better than another handgun. If it has sights and a trigger, and it works, what more do you need it to do for you?
I shot a $2K 9mm 1911, a W German Sig P226 and a Glock 19 side-by-side today.
Following the fundamentals, I couldn't tell a lick of difference between 'em.
I don't see how anyone [with a solid grasp of the fundamentals] could shoot one handgun drastically better than another handgun. If it has sights and a trigger, and it works, what more do you need it to do for you?
I shot a $2K 9mm 1911, a W German Sig P226 and a Glock 19 side-by-side today.
Following the fundamentals, I couldn't tell a lick of difference between 'em.
For one, look at the grip angles. The Glock grip angle requires slight inversion of the wrist, so anatomically speaking, there is a difference there.
Two, there is a lot to say for a trigger. The clean crisp trigger of the 1911 does change the dynamic.
Third, sight radius. There are reasons shooting rifle/carbine is easier than shooting pistol. One of which being the sight radius. The extra inch or so of sight radius on the 1911 is worth it in spades.
Fourth, for me at least, the increased weight enables me to get quicker and more accurate follow-up shots. The increased weight decreases the recoil impulse, and therefore less change of sight picture. Second and third shots are just as important as a first. We don't stop shooting until the threat is no longer one.
There are plenty of others, but I'm really growing tired of answering the questions, because no matter what I say, you'll still think the 1911 is an antiquated pile of crap that belongs in a display case. Whatever. Not my objective to change minds, simply to educate. Carry whatever makes you happy, so long as you're proficient with it.
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RagweedZulu
02-19-12, 19:38
Jew, I don't think Samuse is trashing the 1911. I think he's just saying (and rightfully so) that any modern pistol can be mastered by any GOOD shooter. And any good shooter SHOULD be able to master any pistol. I shoot my 1911 like a house afire. It's accurate, easy to CCW under a jacket and just feels good. I've never had a reliability issue with it, but for some reason I trust and carry one of many Glocks more often.
A good shooter doesn't have to pick ONE caliber or ONE frame size or even ONE pistol. Train with the kit you own and once you are competent with it, carry it.
The guys that I have issue with are the Gear Nuts who go buy the newest fad pistols and never learn to OPERATE them. They own a lot of cool shit, but can't shoot any of it worth a damn. I work with a few of these clowns. I have a modest gun collection, but I'd go to war with any one of them and KNOW I can bet my life on any of them. Otherwise they woulda been Shit Canned long ago.
Jew, I don't think Samuse is trashing the 1911. I think he's just saying (and rightfully so) that any modern pistol can be mastered by any GOOD shooter. And and goodnshooter SHOULD be able to master any pistol. I shoot my 1911 like a house afire. It's accurate, easy to CCW under a jacket and just feels good. I've never had a reliability issue with it, but for some reason I trust and carry one of many Glocks more often.
A good shooter doesn't have to pick ONE caliber or ONE frame size or even ONE pistol. Train with the kit you own and once you are competent with it, carry it.
The guys that I have issue with are the Gear Nuts who go buy the newest fad pistols and never learn to OPERATE them. They own a lot of cool shit, but can't shoot any of it worth a damn. I work with a few of these clowns. I have a modest gun collection, but I'd go to war with any one of them and KNOW I can bet my life on any of them. Otherwise they woulda been Shit Canned long ago.
I hear ya, but my point is, no matter how good the shooter, each individual is ultimately that. Due to taste, muscle tone, bone structure, etc, etc, etc, one pistol will invariably perform better than another. Am I good with my 1911? Yes. Am I good with my Glocks? Yes. HKs? Yes. But my comfort with the 1911 in the holster (meaning how it feels riding there, not that it's the pistol there) and my split times are better than anything else I own.
End result, this ends up back at the same thing I've been saying for ages: Pick whatever you shoot best and are most comfortable with, and shut up. What works for you or me might not work for someone else. For me, a compact SUV suits my 4WD needs. For someone towing a boat or something, obviously a 4 cylinder Ford Escape won't cut it. See my point? Same deal.
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Nephrology
02-19-12, 19:51
Yeah it's really a pretty silly debate no matter what you believe, let's not kid ourselves. I will jab at people but I'm never going to tell them that their gun sucks unless I have witnessed it malfunction abnormally or persistently. So long as it runs and I believe it will continue to run and the person who is shooting it enjoys doing so, it really doesn't make a difference to me or anybody else.
RagweedZulu
02-19-12, 20:08
Yeah it's really a pretty silly debate no matter what you believe, let's not kid ourselves. I will jab at people but I'm never going to tell them that their gun sucks unless I have witnessed it malfunction abnormally or persistently. So long as it runs and I believe it will continue to run and the person who is shooting it enjoys doing so, it really doesn't make a difference to me or anybody else.
Well duh. As the angry poster said above, you're not going to change anyone's mind so why all this damn talk about which is better? May be we should be taking jabs at a guy who has to go on an Internet forum full of unknown clowns with unknown credentials and ask what gun he should buy for HIS CCW!! I mean, c'mon, grow a pair and pick your equipment then learn to operate THAT equipment. Don't go out and buy more new shit cuz it looks cool or some guy who claims to be high speed on a forum says he uses it.
Guys like that need to spend more time on that other forum, where at least once a day some idiot asks "help me decide... G19 or G26?"
As the angry poster said above
I'm not angry, just tired of this thread popping up here almost as often as the same thing happens over on TOS. I s'pose I'll stop bashing my head against the wall.
Definition of insanity: Attempting the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result each time...
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train of abuses
02-19-12, 20:38
I have to admit that the univibe guy made me laugh pretty hard with that last post. Maybe as a Glock 19 fan I will feel his presence from a cyber block away prior to his next post and start laughing again.
Well duh. As the angry poster said above, you're not going to change anyone's mind so why all this damn talk about which is better? May be we should be taking jabs at a guy who has to go on an Internet forum full of unknown clowns with unknown credentials and ask what gun he should buy for HIS CCW!! I mean, c'mon, grow a pair and pick your equipment then learn to operate THAT equipment. Don't go out and buy more new shit cuz it looks cool or some guy who claims to be high speed on a forum says he uses it.
Guys like that need to spend more time on that other forum, where at least once a day some idiot asks "help me decide... G19 or G26?"
Actually, if you are referring to me, i never asked which gun i should buy. Nor did ask which one i should carry......i asked which one YOU carry and why. I own both, and shoot both well. I asked on here because this forum has many people who take SHOOTING/TRAINING seriously, unlike some other forums. My goal was to gain knowledge from people who have more experience with shooting/combat/training than i do.....thats it.
I have "grown a pair" and can operate both weapons well. I will carry what I like best, but the beauty of this forum is to learn new things. Ive learned a ton about the AR-15 here, and was wondering if i was missing some useful info on this topic.
Quite frankly, its people like you who make these threads into the garbage that they turn into....maybe we should be taking jabs at you. Read my original post again and try to comprehend it this time.
That being said, just let this thread die. All useful info has been covered. Thanks to everyone for their advice.
I'll take one M4C thread, extra butthurt...
I'm not sure how anyone can seriously argue that the 1911 is a viable choice for the average shooter in the year 2012, without bringing up emotional/historical arguments. Practically, what does a 1911 offer over a modern polymer pistol such as the Glock or the HK? Weight, capacity, cost, modern reliability, ease of maintaince, manual of arms - the 1911 loses in all these categories. The only things the 1911 has in the year 2012 going for it is the slim profile and an amazing trigger. Are these two attributes enough to justify it as a primary carry piece over something else? I am not a 1911 hater. I like them quite a bit actually. They were a revolutionary sidearm in their day, and continued to be an excellent choice well into the 1980s. But being honest with oneself, what does the 1911 do that something like a Glock can't do cheaper, lighter, and with more rounds?
Not all shooters are average.
Quite frankly, if the 1911 were not a viable carry option in this day and age, the LAV wouldn't offer a course specifically tailored to it. Several other good instructors offer 1911 courses as well, just as some instructors offer J Frame courses. I haven't seen anyone post in this thread yet who has the creds to seriously dismiss the 1911 as a defense gun. Just because you and an overwheming majority of shooters today choose another platform doesn't mean it's the only type of platform that works well. While it's not a total indicator, the 1911 action is still an overwhelming favorite in action pistol competitions. It still wins frequently, which indicates that it has those qualities necessary to work on the street.
I don't believe a below average shooter should be carrying a 1911. They don't have the knowledge to ensure it's performance in all conditions and it may not be an effective platform for them. By the same token, some below average shooters would be very poorly served by the Glock platform. When they have frequent malfs and get hit in the face with brass because the gun is controlling them rather than the other way around, would you seriously suggest it as a good option for them? That's a training issue, but so is mastering the 1911.
When concealment isn't an issue, I carry a G-21SF. It has everything I need and nothing I don't. When concealment IS an issue, I choose otherwise. Who are you or anyone else on this thread to bash my choices? Quite frankly, none of you have the creds to do so. Until you've seen me or someone else run the gamut with a pistol in hand, how could you possibly make a credible evaluation? It's not your ass on the line, it's mine.
The OP asked a valid question. The OP specifically requested that replies not bash the one you disagree with.
Without attacking the one you disagree with, why do you carry what you do? Yet here come all the internet pistolero gurus doing exactly that. Why? It reeks of insecurity to me. Why not just relate your positive experiences with your preferred platform instead? What's gained by turning it into another meaningless ___ vs. ___ thread?
:confused:
rawhide101
02-19-12, 22:17
Love to shoot my 1911s but carry a G19 for all the good reasons mentioned previously-- including having trained with it and fired thousands of rounds through it. I did have a stovepipe once.
Honestly to me the fact that the g19 is lighter makes it a no brainer. With a heavier gun it takes more will (to me at least) to pack that beast everyday even if im just going down the street. I know a lot of guys who bought a 1911 as an edc but after a while they became truck guns.
I don't see how anyone [with a solid grasp of the fundamentals] could shoot one handgun drastically better than another handgun. If it has sights and a trigger, and it works, what more do you need it to do for you?
I shot a $2K 9mm 1911, a W German Sig P226 and a Glock 19 side-by-side today.
Following the fundamentals, I couldn't tell a lick of difference between 'em.
IMHO, when you work against a clock, when you have to draw and present the gun etc, things change. When you have to make shots at twenty to twenty five yards, things change. If you already do these things, you know that there are differences when shooting different pistols. Tenths of a second and a half an inch or inch difference in accuracy can be a lot of difference. If one gun worked perfectly for everyone, we wouldn't have these discussions because everyone would buy the same gun. I've run a few guns as well and there are ones that I'm faster and more accurate with.
My take is the one that's been stated over and over again in this thread and every other one like it. Shoot a lot, find what works best for you and your situation and go with it. Nothing works for every situation, so put some forethought into what lies ahead. Simple and said many times over.
RagweedZulu
02-20-12, 00:13
Actually, if you are referring to me, i never asked which gun i should buy. Nor did ask which one i should carry......i asked which one YOU carry and why. I own both, and shoot both well. I asked on here because this forum has many people who take SHOOTING/TRAINING seriously, unlike some other forums. My goal was to gain knowledge from people who have more experience with shooting/combat/training than i do.....thats it.
I have "grown a pair" and can operate both weapons well. I will carry what I like best, but the beauty of this forum is to learn new things. Ive learned a ton about the AR-15 here, and was wondering if i was missing some useful info on this topic.
Quite frankly, its people like you who make these threads into the garbage that they turn into....maybe we should be taking jabs at you. Read my original post again and try to comprehend it this time.
That being said, just let this thread die. All useful info has been covered. Thanks to everyone for their advice.
Easy there Skippy. Wasn't talking about you. If YOU read MY reponse you'll see I was talking about the clowns who come here asking what gun they should carry. It was for that reason I referenced another forum where that question comes up a lot.
Put a band aid on your butt and carry on.
I have to admit that the univibe guy made me laugh pretty hard with that last post. Maybe as a Glock 19 fan I will feel his presence from a cyber block away prior to his next post and start laughing again.
More "tactical poetry?" Happy to oblige.
There once was a man with a Glock
Who decided he'd go cock-and-lock.
Picked up an 'eleven
Ascended to heaven
Reloaded and said "These things rock!"
I carried a Kimber Ultra Carry II for years in a Milt Sparks VersiMax II and it was a comfortable set up. I switched a while back to a Glock 19 and carry it in a Comp-Tac MTAC which has just been awesome. It's a hybrid of leather and Kydex which is awesome.
I had an experience with my Milt Sparks holster which made me make a switch to Kydex. I was in a class and dropped down to my right side and it ended up causing the holster to close where I couldn't re-holster. I found that the metal form inside the leather had become squashed when I dropped down on my side. It was an easy enough fix but enough to convince me to look for something in kydex.
One other thing, I find the Glock 19 MUCH lighter and honestly not much bulkier, so overall it more comfortable.
Choose a platform
Master it
Carry it
Glocks and 1911s have positives and negatives. Weigh your choices and decide accordingly what's going to work best for you. For someone who has to ask what should I do or what should I pick, you're probably better off with the glock because it's easy, cheaper, lighter and has higher capacity.
Choose a platform
Master it
Carry it
Glocks and 1911s have positives and negatives. Weigh your choices and decide accordingly what's going to work best for you. For someone who has to ask what should I do or what should I pick, you're probably better off with the glock because it's easy, cheaper, lighter and has higher capacity.
Glad to see I'm not the only one saying this...Though you did it without as much crass language as I did.
Honor First
H
My first carry gun was a 1911. I was used to a M9, but chose to carry a 1911. I worked long and hard at learning to shoot it well, investing in classes and range time, and it worked for me. I sold off all my 1911s because I chose to go to all 9mm, and now I have all Glocks. To that end I shoot the G17 better than the G19, but I am learning, through classes and range time, to shoot these very well as well.
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