Muzzle Brake and Flashider Design

[blkexp98]

Ive noticed on a few of my muzzle brakes and even flashiders (I think) that they have a baffle right after the muzzle. Why is this piece of material there? It seems like it would have to have some function other than fowling the crown of the rifle. To me it would make sense to make it a cone tapering tighter as you get away from the muzzle if there needs to be more material there but that's more machine time than a drilled hole.

Would I have any issues if i had that portion removed from my YHM flashider so I wouldn't get the buildup on my rifles muzzle? I know I've seen other brakes and flashiders that have an exposed muzzle.

[Marty916]

There is a lot more to muzzle device design than you might think. I would be hesitant to modify any device on intuition alone. You may induce more flash, less compensation or other artifacts that would have adverse effects on performance. Just my 2 cents worth.

[blkexp98]

Given what you do your 2 cents are worth a lot. There has to be some function to that little air space I just can't figure out if its for strength or serves some other purpose.

[Clobbersauras]

Cudos to the OP for noticing this and being curious enough to ask the question. The reason it's there is that most devices have to be timed and there is no way to know how far down the device will have to be screwed. That means there may be a little bit of gap. But in a perfect word it shouldn't be there, I would hazard a guess that in 99.9% of the designs it wasn't accounted for in the design process,and in most cases it's just going to screw up all the work you did to design the part that comes after it, especially if the device is a flash hider. The taper idea you are talking about would just make things worse especially if you want to reduce flash. I'm not going to comment if you should remove it or not, as I'm not familiar with the device you are using. I will say that I wouldn't personally include that particular design element in a flash hider for a few specific reasons.

Marty916 is very correct in his statement, and of course he should be, he's the SME when it comes to muzzle devices on this board. BCE designs very nice stuff.

But...the little secret of many other manufactures of muzzle brakes and flash hiders is that they really don't understand the science behind the devices they are making. Many of them use their machining smarts, intuition and a lot of trial and error on the rifle to make their devices. There's nothing wrong with that, but it really doesn't afford any real innovation because they don't understand the systems they are dealing with. A lot of the true innovation in this field was done decades ago by people with lots of letters behind their names and usually in the employ of the military or some other large arms manufacturer. This is why you usually see regurgitation of the same designs over and over from different manufacturers.

To do things properly and come up with very effective designs (or truly innovative ones) you need to know (and I mean know it down to the smallest detail) fluid mechanics, gas dynamics, flow theory, heavy calculus etc, etc . You are dealing with physical systems on the verge and some of the science still isn't fully understood.

There are precious few texts that deal with the subject, and very few papers and trade articles. But there is nothing that tells you, if you do Y, X will happen. I researched this topic extensively and came to the realization that unless I wanted to go back to school, gaining a true understanding of this discipline is out of my reach! A friend of mine tried to tell me this a long time ago but i didn't listen, and it took me over a year to learn this sad fact for myself.:)

[Marty916]

Well said Clobbersauras. For such simple devices, there is quite a bit of work involved that is not readily apparent.

[Clobbersauras]

For such simple devices, there is quite a bit of work involved that is not readily apparent.
Quoted for truth. I once tried to calculate, using a formula I found in some obscure text, the effectiveness of a muzzle brake I had designed.

The formula used very heavy calculus, I got stuck trying to figure out the data for one small portion of that formula, after two pages of notes and calculations! I'm still stuck!:D

[Marty916]

Here's a tip; save yourself a lot of time and just use CFD. It will tell you how your design will perform with very reasonable accuracy.

[Clobbersauras]

Here's a tip; save yourself a lot of time and just use CFD. It will tell you how your design will perform with very reasonable accuracy.

LOL- I wish! That would mean modeling my design in CAD!:eek:

I drew my original design on the back of a cocktail napkin with crayon.:D

[Marty916]

Evidently we both do our best work in drinking establishments. Well done. :p

[Clobbersauras]

^LOL!

[danhauer]

when looking into muzzle breaks, how much does matching the twist in your barrel with the muzzle break matter?

I have 1:7 twist in my rifle but I'm having trouble finding muzzle breaks/ Flash suppressors that have the same twist. where is the best place to look?

[Wiggity]

I'm pretty sure they don't have twists

[SomeOtherGuy]

It's totally irrelevant. You only need to know caliber and threading, and those go hand in hand 99% of the time.

[jstyer]

Yup as they said. No twist in a brake... only the thread size and pitch.

[JSantoro]

Keyword "muzzle," limited to thread titles only, and limited to the AR General Discussion subforum, only: https://www.m4carbine.net/search.php?searchid=4226092

...nets tons of brake/device threads to which one might have added the question, instead of starting a new thread. Good idea to get in the habit of conducting searches and adding questions to a related, existing thread instead of starting a new, essentially repetitive one.

Merged to a thread that speaks specifically to design.

Barring info info to the contrary, barrel twist rate isn't a consideration. Match to caliber and to how your barrel is threaded for muzzle devices, and you are go for launch.

[feedramp]

LOL- I wish! That would mean modeling my design in CAD!:eek:

I drew my original design on the back of a cocktail napkin with crayon.:D

This made me think...
If it wasn't at the wrong end of the gun for affecting swing weight, I think we'd see a lot more externally-fanciful muzzle brakes with crenelation or spikes or other blunt force punishment features.

[Clobbersauras]

I think we'd see a lot more externally-fanciful muzzle brakes with crenelation or spikes or other blunt force punishment features.

You mean something more like this one?::D
http://www.oneshottactical.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/IMG_4840.jpg

[feedramp]

You mean something more like this one?::D
http://www.oneshottactical.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/IMG_4840.jpg

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rock.gif
Awesome. ;)

[kwelz]

You mean something more like this one?::D
http://www.oneshottactical.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/IMG_4840.jpg

I will take 5.
:suicide2::suicide2::suicide2: