What about first time trainies?

[Bigkrackers]

So I've been reading the stickys and some of the posts in this sub forum and have been reading on this site for a while so I'm not going to ask for opinions on the cheapest optics I can get away with.

My question is about optics as related to basic AR training for new shooters and the requirements for those classes. I fully intend to become proficient with iron sites but every class I look at lists an RDS or other optic as a requirement. The only problem I have is that I don't know which type of optic I like; RDS, holographic or magnification scope? I don't want to buy a high quality optic before I know what I need.

What is the recommendation in this case?

[cop1211]

Aimpoint. Simple as it gets, single dot, bomb proof.

[mkmckinley]

I would personally go with an Aimpoint Micro or Patrol Optic, preferably 2MOA dot. An Eotech EXPS would be a close second. There isn't a big difference in using a traditional RDS like an Aimpoint or a Holo like the Eotech. They're both different means to the same end. Most on here would probably recommend Aimpoint due to their ruggedness, battery life and simplicity.

edit: for a second I thought your title said "first time trannies"

[Bigkrackers]

edit: for a second I thought your title said "first time trannies"

:nono:pretty sure that would be a different forum.

[dwheelock]

I'm kinda in the same boat, interested to hear what everyone has to say

[Failure2Stop]

I would personally go with an Aimpoint Micro or Patrol Optic, preferably 2MOA dot. An Eotech EXPS would be a close second. There isn't a big difference in using a traditional RDS like an Aimpoint or a Holo like the Eotech. They're both different means to the same end. Most on here would probably recommend Aimpoint due to their ruggedness, battery life and simplicity.

I think that would be a very logical path to follow.

[hotrodder636]

I am fairly new in shooting ARs but I have an Aimpoint Micro T-1 on top of my KAC and I really like it. I have yet to get through a carbine coruse, but I am glad to know after reading on here a lot (and seeing the video of a DD carbine with a T-1 that Larry Vickers absolutely beats the shit out of and it works until he blows it up!) that this optic will serve me well.

I got the chance to shoot through and EOTech on top of an ACR yesterday and quite frankly it seemed bulky, didn't like the sight picture and really didn't like the ring with the dot in the middle. I prefer the round sight picture with a single little dot.

FWIW, I did a 60 round (from a SF 60 rounder) semi-auto mag dump shooting at about 50yds and was able to keep all 60 shots in the 9 ring or better of a 100 yard silouette...

[Submariner]

I think that would be a very logical path to follow.

Buying used might also save a few shekels for training.

[Pappabear]

Aimpoint. Yep

[Bigkrackers]

Well, thank you all for taking the time to respond to my post.

I have little to no experience with the AR platform and to be able to tap into such knowledge is amazing. Which is why I will be ignoring all of it and getting one of these:

http://combatoptical.com/catalog/1X42-B-STYLE-RED-DOT-SIGHT-WEAVER-BASE-196.html

Price point is right where I like it and it looks tactical and milspec-ish.

Okay, so it looks like I'll be saving up for an Aimpoint. I've seen some used ones on sale here so I'll just keep my eyes open here and elsewhere.

I do appreciate the help.

[ucrt]

...
... I have little to no experience with the AR platform and to be able to tap into such knowledge is amazing. Which is why I will be ignoring all of it and getting one of these:

http://combatoptical.com/catalog/1X42-B-STYLE-RED-DOT-SIGHT-WEAVER-BASE-196.html

Price point is right where I like it and it looks tactical and milspec-ish. ...
....

==================================

What exactly are you saying here? My first read doesn't sit well...

But maybe it's just me...

.

[Bigkrackers]

I assure you, it's just you.

I'm sure you have noticed all the threads in the last month or so started by "new to the forum" folks who ask a question and have all these replies by SMEs, industry experts and senior members only to ignore it all, get upset and do nothing that was suggested?

I was just making a parody is all.

I will be following the input from my betters and saving up for an Aimpoint.

[ucrt]

I assure you, it's just you.

I'm sure you have noticed all the threads in the last month or so started by "new to the forum" folks who ask a question and have all these replies by SMEs, industry experts and senior members only to ignore it all, get upset and do nothing that was suggested?

I was just making a parody is all.

I will be following the input from my betters and saving up for an Aimpoint.

================================

Cool.
I haven't had 1-second of buyer's remorse for my T-1 purchase.

Looks like people are getting rid of their 4 MOA T-1's for the 2 MOA's. Wish I had the funds to pick up a few of them myself.

.

[rob_s]

I'm curious what classes are requiring an RDS. My initial reaction is that if a class requires an RDS then it's not the right class to take as a first class.

I'm not a "master irons first" guy but I was limited to $500 for either optics or training, I'd choose training.

[Bigkrackers]

I'm curious what classes are requiring an RDS. My initial reaction is that if a class requires an RDS then it's not the right class to take as a first class.

I'm not a "master irons first" guy but I was limited to $500 for either optics or training, I'd choose training.

You are correct. There are only a couple note worthy training providers were I am. (Thanks to the local members on this site for providing that information.) So basic AR classes look to be combined with some combative training as well which is why an RDS is probably recommended. Now because only one out of the three note worthy providers offer a complete course description of all classes, I can only go by what is currently being described. It could be that one does not need optics for a basic AR class. I am in the process of confirming.

[Submariner]

I'm curious what classes are requiring an RDS. My initial reaction is that if a class requires an RDS then it's not the right class to take as a first class.

I'm not a "master irons first" guy but I was limited to $500 for either optics or training, I'd choose training.

Recall that Pat Rogers "strongly recommends" an RDS. So long as the student has a flat top receiver, Pat will lend the student an Aimpoint. Or a carbine with an Aimpoint.

It makes Pat's life, the student's life and the rest of the students' lives easier during the class. More learning occurs.

[rob_s]

Recall that Pat Rogers "strongly recommends" an RDS. So long as the student has a flat top receiver, Pat will lend the student an Aimpoint. Or a carbine with an Aimpoint.

It makes Pat's life, the student's life and the rest of the students' lives easier during the class. More learning occurs.

and you're supposed to have prior training before one of Pat's classes, hence my comment.

and, again while I'm not "irons only/first" guy, I would actually have zero qualms about taking Pat's class with irons and that was my original plan for the class last December, in fact. That or left-handed.

[5pins]

Is it a requirement or strongly suggested? If you take the class with irons you can see what optics others are using and maybe ever try some.

[Submariner]

and you're supposed to have prior training before one of Pat's classes, hence my comment.

Have you ever attended his Basic Carbine Class? What prior training does he require? None is listed and none of my crew had any before they attended.

Pat's comment from June 2010 Basic Carbine Class (my youngest daughter's first class of any kind):


This shooter not only brought a musket, but also an M1907 Leather sling on it.
Clearly he was not used to this type of fighting class, but rather those classes taught by old skool types whose doctrine has become dogma.
To his credit, he swapped irons for a T1 and did very well.

Pat loaned him the T-1. My point.

[rob_s]

Have you ever attended his Basic Carbine Class? What prior training does he require? None is listed and none of my crew had any before they attended.

Neither is a red-dot listed as a requirement. (http://eagtactical.com/coursedetails.asp?ListID=10)


Just because one guy showed up with the wrong attitude/mindset to begin with and him having a red-dot made Pat's job easier doesn't have, IMO, any relativity to the topic at hand.

I maintain that if your first course has as a stated requirement or even strongly suggested it's probably not a good first class.