G17/19 w/& w/o X300 KydexHolster

[EzGoingKev]

I do not know if I am looking for something that doesn't exist but if I do not ask then I will not find out.

I am looking for a kydex holster that can be used on both a G17 & G19, with or without an X300 installed.

Is there such a thing?

[cjb1911]

Doubt it, every kydex holster that I know of uses the light as its point of retention. If no wml then it uses the trigger guard.

[EzGoingKev]

A while back I had seen one of them that used the ejection port and thought that might work but I cannot figure out who the maker was.

I am not expert and maybe Tom Fineis (sp?) who is a member here and the owner of RCS will come in an school me but when I look at my RCS G19 X300 holster I cannot help but wonder if the closed bottom was not there it would hold both the G17 & G19.

[Nephrology]

Supposedly the Kaluban Cloak kydex holsters for guns with weaponlights can retain them with and without the light installed but that's secondhand.

Either way I think you should really pick one and stick with it. Or just get both holsters. They are called "made to fit" for a reason...

[d90king]

Safariland would be the only play and I don't think even they build such a beast. Raven and it's clones all use the light as mentioned above...

[Nephrology]

A while back I had seen one of them that used the ejection port and thought that might work but I cannot figure out who the maker was.

I am not expert and maybe Tom Fineis (sp?) who is a member here and the owner of RCS will come in an school me but when I look at my RCS G19 X300 holster I cannot help but wonder if the closed bottom was not there it would hold both the G17 & G19.

Comp-Tac makes an OWB holster that will fit both the G19 and G17 with a weaponlight as the slide portion of the holster is open as you observe. I used it with a G17 and G19 with a streamlight TLR1 with no issues, but sold it as it came too far off the body for me to really effectively conceal.

I am not aware however of any holster maker that produces something that will retain different weapon models effectively with AND without a light.

[rob_s]

If you look at the two guns side-by-side with the lights attached you'll see what a tall order it is you're asking for. There is very, very little left that is similar between the two for the holster to cover and/or grab on to.

I can. however, think of at last one that will work.
http://soldiersystems.net/2012/01/24/shot-show-followup-raven-concealment-minimal-vanguard-ii/

[cjb1911]

If you look at the two guns side-by-side with the lights attached you'll see what a tall order it is you're asking for. There is very, very little left that is similar between the two for the holster to cover and/or grab on to.

I can. however, think of at last one that will work.
http://soldiersystems.net/2012/01/24/shot-show-followup-raven-concealment-minimal-vanguard-ii/

Wouldn't the position of the light affect that one too?

[rob_s]

Wouldn't the position of the light affect that one too?

I don't actually know, but now that I look at it I think you're probably right. I posted it more to make a point about the limits of the request.

[EzGoingKev]

I don't actually know, but now that I look at it I think you're probably right. I posted it more to make a point about the limits of the request.
They are not that far off. Stop and think about it, they both put the light switch in the same position.

Lined up on last night's pizza box -

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZCEyRqwG7HM/T0EapGfH2mI/AAAAAAAAEiE/VYV10c1rnQs/s800/20120219_104941.jpg

The more I look at my RCS G19 X300 holster the more I think that one for a G17 X300 will fit both pistols. They both secure off the light, you would just have dead space in front of the G19's barrel.

[rob_s]

The more I look at my RCS G19 X300 holster the more I think that one for a G17 X300 will fit both pistols.

It very well may, but that's not all you asked for. You also asked for it to hold the pistol(s) with and without the light.

[TomF]

Holsters that will properly retain the gun with and without the light is indeed a tall order.

In order to achieve that, many companies use a Level 2 retention holster that they can just "trap" the gun in.

Kydex pancake holsters (like ours), it's even trickier. There is a large opening where the light would normally fill that the gun can be "pushed" back into. The companies who claim they can perform both of these tasks typically just crush mold the ejection port of the pistol and hope it holds enough with the light removed. We don't feel this is an adequately secure method which is why we don't do it.

I get this question fairly often from customers, and I usually respond with a question(s) of my own:

When do you see yourself removing the light from the pistol? What benefit will you obtain by doing so?

[EzGoingKev]

It very well may, but that's not all you asked for. You also asked for it to hold the pistol(s) with and without the light.
I was editing to add that would not help me as I am looking for something w/ and w/o the light but I got email notification that you posted and beat me to the punch so I figured I would address it here with a quote to your post.

The ejection ports are in the same location -

G17

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6U_cheW5U68/T0Ee4K0cHvI/AAAAAAAAEik/vEIBB3psyiw/s800/20120219_110335.jpg

G19

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iBJ50RtF8Bo/T0Eeq8__t-I/AAAAAAAAEiI/nIoLJAFLhIw/s800/20120219_110709.jpg

[rob_s]

When do you see yourself removing the light from the pistol? What benefit will you obtain by doing so?

IDPA, USPSA, light broke, light is on another gun, picked up the gun without the light....

I frankly share the OP's quest, I just don't think it's likely to be satisfied.

[EzGoingKev]

Holsters that will properly retain the
I get this question fairly often from customers, and I usually respond with a question(s) of my own:

When do you see yourself removing the light from the pistol? What benefit will you obtain by doing so?


IDPA, USPSA, light broke, light is on another gun, picked up the gun without the light....


Say I have a situation that does not warrant having my pistol out but I need a light. I would remove the light from the pistol and slide it back into the holster but it really is not secure.

Say I have my rifle as my primary and the pistol as a back up. The light mounted on my rifle goes down and I do not have a batman kit to get it back up. If I wanted to keep the rifle as my primary I would pull the light from the pistol and slide it on the rail of my rifle and move forward from there. Again, I re-holster my pistol but it is not really secure.

[TomF]

Just personal opinions here-

Regarding competitions: There are better holsters for USPSA. Ours works fine for IDPA, but a dedicated holster will do better.

Regarding incomplete guns: I'd say if someone has put together a quality rifle and quality pistol, they could probably afford to outfit both with lights, especially when you can get quality Surefire G2X's and G2LED's for less than $100.

Regarding a light on primary going down: Certainly a possibility. The majority of people using rifles as primary weapons are also carrying overt, Level 2 (or 3) holsters. Those type of holsters will often retain the pistol. If your job requires concealment gear on the belt, but a rifle in your hands, you will indeed have trouble finding a holster to do what you ask. There are a few out there, however.

[rob_s]

We've gone 'round this circle before so it's probably not worth engaging in. I'm not sure if the chicken or the egg came first, but suffice it to say that the request for a holster that works both with and without a light comes up often enough that there's a market for it if someone comes up with it.

[HaydenB]

Is there such a thing?

My Kaluban Cloak made for G34 w/ x300 can secure a 34, 17, or 19 with OR WITHOUT a light.

I know because I used my KC with my 34 for about a month before I ordered my x300, and the retention was good enough that I could try to shake the pistol out of the holster to no avail.

I cant say enough good things about KC. I had several questions to ask before I made my order and every one of them was answered within 12 hours.

Plus, I received my holster within FOUR DAYS!!!

If you have any questions about the holster feel free to ask me.

[Steve S.]

G-Code has their holster with the replaceable cowl system. They make some great kydex.

I remember a company called GI Holsters (I believe) who's big claim was proper retention with the light removed. It's a different design unique to them.

[trinydex]

http://www.cryeprecision.com/P-BLC02000G1R/Gunclip%E2%84%A2

it's not really a holster...

[Kchen986]

I get this question fairly often from customers, and I usually respond with a question(s) of my own:

When do you see yourself removing the light from the pistol? What benefit will you obtain by doing so?

If I may field this question:

1.) As a daily CCW, sometimes having a smaller and lighter package tucked IWB is nice. I carry a handheld light usually, so there's one option for a light, should the need arise. A compact pistol + WML is pretty weighty.

2.) *More importantly,* the light extends the length of my gun. Which means, it's longer and sometimes a little more difficult to clear from the holster. I find I have a much easier time presenting the gun w/o a WML than with a WML. Now this probably won't hold true for full sized guns, but this certainly affects the handling on my P30 and G19.

Hope this was helpful feedback.

[Hdog83]

I looked into this a while back, so apologies if I get the number wrong, but the Safariland model 6304, the ALS version of the venerable Safariland 6004, is reported to handle both configurations (light or no light) for both the G17 and the G19 from a single holster (when ordered in the G17 + X300 configuration). The ALS system locks into the ejection port, making it work in all 4 instances. Yes, it's a kydex holster, but of course no, it's not a CCW holster by any means - it's a full on tactical thigh holster with hood, thigh strap, etc. Yes, this is hearsay/internet-obtained "knowledge" for me, as I never actually bought one, so please excuse me for repeating it here without being able to stand up and say "I know it works". I post it here just to add another idea to your search process. YMMV, etc. (By the way, I also recall that Safariland's description refers to the X200, not the X300 - are they the same external size?)

On the other hand, I do have first hand knowledge regarding a Kaluban Cloak OWB kydex pancake holster for a G21 with X300. I concur with what Hayden wrote a few posts above: it will definitely retain with or without the light. However, having looked carefully at how they make their design work, I'm not convinced that you could get all 4 configurations to work from a single G17+X300 model with that holster. (I would tend to trust what Mr. Fineis is saying above - he almost certainly knows a lot more than most anyone else on this topic.) Also, although my experience with the mfr and the finished product was not as bad as some of which I've read, it definitely was not as good as Hayden's -- I don't think I'd order another holster from them.

[msstate56]

The Safariland 6360 will definitely retain a G17 or 19 with or w/o and x300. I have one and have used it on duty for almost four years. With the 19 size w/o the light, the gun will have about a half inch of vertical play, but it will retain the gun. The ALS only version will perform the same way. However, neither of those holsters can be concealed. For a duty, range, training, competition holster they can work.

[TomF]

If I may field this question:

1.) As a daily CCW, sometimes having a smaller and lighter package tucked IWB is nice. I carry a handheld light usually, so there's one option for a light, should the need arise. A compact pistol + WML is pretty weighty.

Very common response. The problem is that removing the light doesn't gain you any smaller package if you are using a rigid light compatible holster.

If the holster is built to take the light, the size will not change by simply taking the light off the gun. Simply put, if you can conceal the holster, you can conceal the light.

Most pistol lights are only a few ounces these days, and I don't personally notice any difference in weight between a lighted pistol and non, especially with a good belt.

[EzGoingKev]

Tom,

I have been thinking about this some more and wanted to share these thoughts with you. If I have made any incorrect assumptions please correct me.

As RCS makes holsters for Glocks without lights mounted on them you have found a method of positive retention that is not contingent upon using the light.

A holster made for a G17 can also work with a G19.

If you made a G17 holster molded for use with a X300 but use the retention method used for a G17 without the light would that not work with all four of the scenarios?

[F-Trooper05]

The retention point for holsters without lights is the trigger guard. If you make that the retention point for holsters with lights, you won't be able to fit the gun in the holster because the light will be too big.

[Lomshek]

My Safariland ALS 6380 (I think that's the model) will hold my M&P 9 with or without a light. It is designed that way and indexes the barrel with a muzzle plug while locking the gun with the ejection port (as all ALS) holsters do.

It is a big OWB "duty" size rig though and not a CCW holster.

[JoshuaJJackson]

Supposedly the Kaluban Cloak kydex holsters for guns with weaponlights can retain them with and without the light installed but that's secondhand.

Either way I think you should really pick one and stick with it. Or just get both holsters. They are called "made to fit" for a reason...

My Kaluban Cloak holster retains my Glock 17 with or without an X300 attached. Actually most of the time I carry without the light attached and has solid retention.

[cjb1911]

I'm pretty sure these guys make exactly what the OP was looking for...

http://www.offthegridconcepts.com/

[Wake27]

I'm pretty sure these guys make exactly what the OP was looking for...

http://www.offthegridconcepts.com/

I was just about to mention them. They don't have anything for both a G19 and G17, but they do have one that will work with and without a light. Check their FB page for some pics if it isn't on the site, but the way it works is simple. If the light is attached I think that's the main point of retention, if not, it includes a screw to tighten the holster. I'll probably be getting one this summer.