View Full Version : A hobby gun for younger shooter
steelonsteel
02-19-12, 12:15
What would be the best way to go about a hobby gun for a younger shooter? He has a lot of fun shooting with me and has expresed a lot of interest in my AR's. The shooter in quetion is 18, and is a safe and courtious shooter, but he will never be competing, nor betting his life on the weapon. In all honesty he'll probably shoot it 5, maybe 6 times a year, maybe 100 rounds per trip.
I want to get him a decent hobby gun that will be fairly trouble free, but it doesnt need to be "tier one quality" and I'm sure not giving him one of my Colt's or BCM's ;). I'm willing to commit about $600 to this - Which I think is decent for him getting a range gun for free.
I've been debating either getting a del-ton rifle kit and assembling it on a stripped lower, a S&W Sporter [although it does have the disadvantage of lacking a Forward Assist and dust cover - not that it should matter, but you know how kids are], or trying to pick up a used bushmaster/similar.
Yeah, I know - none of us would really want any of these as our first line weapon - it won't be his either; this will really only be a toy for him, I just want to get him something that wont be totally problematic, and ergo bum him out that rifle didnt work. just a trouble free plinker he can have fun with is all we're after.
If you've any other suggestions that would also be appreciated.
THanks in advance!~
dirtyhoboC
02-19-12, 12:29
A co-worker of mine both the Smith & Wesson M&P from a cabelas store a month or so ago. It was a little over your budget $700. It did come with sights already which was a plus. We went out and burned a couple of hundred rounds. It shoots nice enough. Never had feed or extraction problems. It would be an easy way to go. It might be less work and time for you to assemble a gun from scratch. I was a little impressed with the rifle for price.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Centerfire-Rifles/Semiautomatic%7C/pc/104792580/c/105522480/sc/105524280/Smith-Wesson-MP8482-Sport-AR-15-Rifle/1317808.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-centerfire-rifles-semiautomatic%2F_%2FN-1102333%2FNs-MIN_SALE_PRICE%3FWTz_l%3DUnknown%253Bcat105522480%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat105522480%3Bcat105524280
The following kit would be a great way to accomplish what you want:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-mid-length-lighter-weight-profile-chrome-lined-mp-rifle-kit.html
I will diverge from the standard M4CARBINE.NET mantra of purchasing a complete rifle in this case. I put one of these together for a friend of mine who was also very price conscious. I've got nothing negative to say about it. Outstanding parts for the price.
With this kit, you are getting much higher quality components than you are buying an inexpensive complete gun from Bushmaster etc. All you need is a stripped lower receiver, which you can find for next to nothing. There's also a carbine version if you don't want the midlength.
This seems to be the niche that PSA would fill well.
steelonsteel
02-19-12, 13:18
I probably could go as high s $700 if pressed - that's why I wasconsidering the S&W sport as the first response showed - my local place has these for $660!
bsmith_shoot
02-19-12, 13:24
Hey friend, why dont you post in the EE that your looking for a good quality AR for around 600. Give em some options maybe, like 6920, DD, BCM, or maybe even Spikes in this situation. Put in there that your just looking for a no-frills KISS configuration. I bet you get some hits.
Brandon
I think the S&W Sport is the way to go here. Great warranty and terrific customer service on the S&W in case anything is problematic. I also think a factory S&W will hold its value better if/when the time comes to upgrade.
I don't understand why you would choose an overgassed AR-15 with no dust cover, no forward assist, a 4140 barrel, non MP/HPT bolt etc. etc. etc when you can have a fully HPT/MPI 4150 CMV Chrome Lined barrel, HPT/MPI bolt, etc for less money with the PSA kit. How hard is it to get a stripped lower and put it together? This makes no sense to me.
I don't understand why you would choose an overgassed AR-15 with no dust cover, no forward assist, a 4140 barrel, non MP/HPT bolt etc. etc. etc when you can have a fully HPT/MPI 4150 CMV Chrome Lined barrel, HPT/MPI bolt, etc for less money with the PSA kit. How hard is it to get a stripped lower and put it together? This makes no sense to me.
I agree. Get the PSA kit and add a stripped lower for another $50. Total price? $550! You can't beat that for a mil-spec rifle.
DeltaSierra
02-19-12, 14:24
I agree. Get the PSA kit and add a stripped lower for another $50. Total price? $550! You can't beat that for a mil-spec rifle.
After the issues with PSA that have been cropping up, I can't imagine recommending PSA over a Smith & Wesson...
PSA has been looking okay as a hobby gun to me, but I guess it's not something you want problems with ether.
Thus far I am a fan of Tactical Machining. I use one of their earlier lowers and have had no problems with it or noticed a lack of quality.
Their carbine uppers are $400 + a lower $240 = $640
Click here to check those out (https://www.tacticalmachining.com/receivers/complete-upper-receivers.html)
DeltaSierra
02-19-12, 14:58
PSA has been looking okay as a hobby gun to me, but I guess it's not something you want problems with ether.
Thus far I am a fan of Tactical Machining. I use one of their earlier lowers and have had no problems with it or noticed a lack of quality.
Their carbine uppers are $400 + a lower $240 = $640
Click here to check those out (https://www.tacticalmachining.com/receivers/complete-upper-receivers.html)
Wait a second....
I went to that website - no specs, nothing. I wouldn't buy an unknown, no matter how nice the price looked....
From my point of view, I'd rather gift a complete factory rifle from a reputable manufacturer with a solid warranty than something I had assembled myself from parts. A factory gun will retain value better as well. Given the budget stated and the expected usage, I'll stand by the S&W recommendation.
^ I think S&W stands to be a great idea.
@DeltaSierra
Well, if they did have specs what would you say?
My lower seems more than fine, and if we're thinking about a gun that isn't a BCM or Colt then I don't see why not.
I'll e-mail them with that idea though. I'd like to know too.
Costa had them do a hydrodip I believe, but that doesn't say much.
+1 for the M&P sport. Nice rifle for the price.
i built my first ar from a psa rifle kit on a psa lower. no issues. shoots great.
my daughter is almost 10. i ended up buying her a s&w mp15-22 for less than $400. she loves it. i will set it up similar to my psa so when she is ready to graduate from .22lr to 5.56 I will giver her the psa and my 5 yr old will get the s&w. hopefully by then i will have built my sbr suppressed .300 :)
will post pics when i get back to a pc. too hard to from my phone
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1255/dsc00157io.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/766/mp1522.jpg
CarlosDJackal
02-19-12, 19:53
+1 for the M&P sport. Nice rifle for the price.
Another vote for the S&W M&P15-22. I bought one last month and have bhepng train some your uns with it (14 & 12). It allows us to shoot at the Indoor Range and conduct some low light shooting.
Mine has been pretty much 100% using Federal 550-round bulk pack ammo that I buy from Wal Mart.
SicTransit
02-19-12, 20:02
I picked up a complete DPMS oracle parts kit minus a lower for around 470. I'm pretty sure you can still find them for a similar price if you don't mind building one. A lower will cost easily under 100. Shizam, A less than $600 ar-15. I've had great luck with mine and it's accurate as hell.
GeorgiaBoy
02-19-12, 20:14
After the issues with PSA that have been cropping up, I can't imagine recommending PSA over a Smith & Wesson...
Most of these problems have been corrected for months. They are turning out a pretty good product now.
DeltaSierra
02-19-12, 20:18
OK, so maybe PSA has tried to do a little better in the past few days, but it wasn't more than a couple weeks ago that they shipped an upper with a live round in it - someone is sleeping on the job I guess...
I still can't understand going with a PSA when there are other options on the table for a little more money....
SicTransit
02-19-12, 20:20
Look, a DPMS is junk, and I highly doubt that the OP would be better served with that garbage than he would be with a Smith.
Please, stop wasting bandwidth....
You are wrong. Perhaps you should "stop wasting bandwidth".
S&W Sport or used, verified, genuine Colt, BCM etc
DPMS is verified, certified, genuine crap.
SicTransit
02-19-12, 20:26
DPMS is verified, certified, genuine crap.
I'm sure you have owned one and can verify.
I'm sure you have owned one and can verify.
Unfortunately I was the not so proud owner of 3 shit ARs before I knew better, a PMSD, a LAR Grizzly and one that shall remain
nameless due to excellent customer service.
SicTransit
02-19-12, 20:33
Unfortunately I was the not so proud owner of 3 shit ARs before I knew better, a PMSD, a LAR Grizzly and one that shall remain
nameless due to excellent customer service.
I'm going to assume the nameless one wasn't a dpms and your post is meaningless...
I'm going to assume the nameless one wasn't a dpms and your post is meaningless...
It was the flagship piston gun by a Fudd company. Assume what you want, enjoy your Boracle.
DPMS is verified, certified, genuine crap.
This.
I'm sure you have owned one and can verify.
I can verify. Ive owned one. Garbage. Also a friend of mine had one that was a complete and utter jam-o-matic.
My Douchemaster was even a better rifle than the DPOS I had.
OP, I've heard good and bad things about the M&P Sport, mostly good though. Seems like a good enough plinker. Id imagine its better than the DPOS Sportical that can be had for the same kind of money with the exact same features.
SicTransit
02-19-12, 20:40
This.
I can verify. Ive owned one. Garbage. Also a friend of mine had one that was a complete and utter jam-o-matic.
My Douchemaster was even a better rifle than the DPOS I had.
There we are. Real information. Not some fabricated bs. Thank you.
...
...
Shizam, A less than $600 ar-15. ....
=====================================
Sic,
This is more accurate:
"Shizam, less than $600 for a facsimile of an AR-15."
It is kind of at the point that DPMS's reputation is well known. BTW, I have owned one and it was Crap! But if I hadn't owned one and did a little research, I could easily see that they come up lacking.
Sorry you're getting butt hurt but I understand. Just don't come here spewing that because you shot 300 rounds through your DPMS that it is good to go.
But maybe it's just me...
.
There we are. Real information. Not some fabricated bs. Thank you.
I won't argue with stupid, you will only drag me to your level and beat me with experience. My posts aren't hard to search and figure out exactly what company I am talking about. It is called respect, for a company that makes jam up single action revolvers, maybe you should get some.
DeltaSierra
02-19-12, 20:53
According to a quick count I just did, it appears that at least 26 of your 31 posts are related to you arguing with other members of this forum regarding your poor choices in firearms.
I don't think that is a very good record, to say the least.
If you have read anything on this site, I would have thought you would have figured out a thing or two about your attitude.
SWATcop556
02-19-12, 20:54
DPMS is shit. Period. End of story. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.
My old dept fielded many and only a handful did not have to go back for issues. Searching the forum and many others will show the sketchy history.
I've always found that the people who defend them are the ones who currently have one sitting in the safe.
SicTransit
02-19-12, 20:58
According to a quick count I just did, it appears that at least 26 of your 31 posts are related to you arguing with other members of this forum regarding your poor choices in firearms.
I don't think that is a very good record, to say the least.
If you have read anything on this site, I would have thought you would have figured out a thing or two about your attitude.
Let's be honest. I'm barely arguing. Mostly just bringing up cheaper ar options. And i don't care about my "record", obviously. I
SicTransit
02-19-12, 21:17
This.
I can verify. Ive owned one. Garbage. Also a friend of mine had one that was a complete and utter jam-o-matic.
My Douchemaster was even a better rifle than the DPOS I had.
OP, I've heard good and bad things about the M&P Sport, mostly good though. Seems like a good enough plinker. Id imagine its better than the DPOS Sportical that can be had for the same kind of money with the exact same features.
I guess i spoke too soon?? wtf... I just came across this thread over at glocktalk and seems like you had some input:
" I just recently bought a DPMS A-15 without the forward assist and dust cover. I've got about 400 rounds through it with no problems. I like it a lot, but I'm pretty much just starting out in the AR world, this one being my second one. Had a Bushmaster 16" HBAR as my first one and loved it.
Looking into replacing the DPMS with a Daniel Defense, as I keep hearing such great things about them. "
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1391793
SicTransit
02-19-12, 21:27
nevermind.
+1 Well said, kinda.
I guess i spoke too soon?? wtf... I just came across this thread over at glocktalk and seems like you had some input:
" I just recently bought a DPMS A-15 without the forward assist and dust cover. I've got about 400 rounds through it with no problems. I like it a lot, but I'm pretty much just starting out in the AR world, this one being my second one. Had a Bushmaster 16" HBAR as my first one and loved it.
Looking into replacing the DPMS with a Daniel Defense, as I keep hearing such great things about them. "
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1391793
Might want to check the date on that post bud....
After about 700 rounds in that thing it started failing to extract and double feeding on me. I never got a chance to repost in that thread over there as it got pushed to the bottom of the pile. 400 rounds of ammo is not a true test for any type of gun. That was my opinion of it at the time.
Apologies to the OP for shitting on your thread...some people have no respect to confront others in PM to call them out. They'd rather shit on someones thread and "make some kind of point" that the crap equipment they use is up to par with higher teir equipment.
SicTransit
02-19-12, 21:48
Might want to check the date on that post bud....
After about 700 rounds in that thing it started failing to extract and double feeding on me. I never got a chance to repost in that thread over there as it got pushed to the bottom of the pile. 400 rounds of ammo is not a true test for any type of gun. That was my opinion of it at the time.
Apologies to the OP for shitting on your thread...some people have no respect to confront others in PM to call them out. They'd rather shit on someones thread and "make some kind of point" that the crap equipment they use is up to par with higher teir equipment.
the date.. a month ago??
Cross-forum stalking?! Now this is getting to be a far more interesting thread than just whether or not DPMS build quality = a shit plate.
the date.. a month ago??
A lot can be learned in a month.....
Hence the reason I traded that piece of shit at a loss for my Colt.....if it was such a good rifle, why would I lose a couple hundred bucks trading?
SicTransit
02-19-12, 22:00
A lot can be learned in a month.....
Hence the reason I traded that piece of shit at a loss for my Colt.....if it was such a good rifle, why would I lose a couple hundred bucks trading?
Some of us don't need to lie.
SWATcop556
02-19-12, 22:51
SicTransit what is your point in chasing this rabbit all over this thread?
You own a DPMS. Great.
It works for your needs. Great.
That doesn't change the track record that the company has had for YEARS. You can scream that your DPMS cures cancer from the mountain tops but the history of the company speaks for itself.
Cross-forum stalking?! Now this is getting to be a far more interesting thread than just whether or not DPMS build quality = a shit plate.
SicTransit...... Troll, or serial killer???? You decide!
Oh, and while you're on Glock Talk, make sure to let everybody know that your Sigmas and HiPoints are just as good as Glocks, Hks, and Sigs. It's good to let everybody know your experiences from your VALUABLE leo/military background. Thank God we have geniuses kicking ass with DPMS and Black Hole downrange to let us all know they're good to go.
GeorgiaBoy
02-19-12, 23:36
OK, so maybe PSA has tried to do a little better in the past few days, but it wasn't more than a couple weeks ago that they shipped an upper with a live round in it - someone is sleeping on the job I guess...
I still can't understand going with a PSA when there are other options on the table for a little more money....
It doesn't change the fact that PSA's are still a pretty good deal for what they are. I probably wouldn't ever own one, but as long as everything checked out (no carbine gas tubes on a midlength) fine, I wouldn't see the problem for its use by a low-volume shooter.
Sic, you're proving my point further and further with each post you make...
To the OP, stick with a a factory rifle that carries a warranty from a company with good customer service and you'll be fine. Having a warranty will give you great piece of mind that if something does go wrong, you won't be up shit creek.
The S&W would be my first choice as I've had great success with their products and their CS was on par with other great manufactures I've dealt with.
mallowpufft
03-27-12, 18:09
I've got a 20" PSA that's my coyote/varmint/dicking around gun. I don't have the $ to devote to classes and hardcore training but I've put just shy of 400 rounds through it in the last month and I've not had any issues. Shoots well enough for me. Don't know that I'd trust my life to it yet but for the price I paid it does what I ask of it without complaint.
I picked it up at new years and including craptastic Cabellas scope & promag mount I've spent less than $700 on it.
Wow you guys really are harsh, why not live and let live? I bought a Busmaster 2yrs ago and it shot 5/8s of an inch@100 with the first load I tried! That was non FF, I just recently put a FF rail on it along with a few more upgrades.
I won't claim 100% reliability, but only because I didn't know to run it wet and I ruined the gas rings after 800 rounds.
I now am more educated, and after replacing the gas rings I have not had a single failure in another 5-700 rounds.
I just love how you guys jump on anybody who didn't spend twice what a rifle is worth, it's like you just gotta justify your choice and spending. :big_boss:
Dog biter, in two years you've managed to put as many rounds through you rifle as you'd shoot in a carbine class. Also, the last time I checked the price of bushmasters they didn't cost $500 (which would be half the price of what you griped about.)
Get some more trigger time, realize that you over paid for your bushy, learn from your mistake, and move on.
Please post this silliness somewhere else. No one cares about a 5/8 inch group shot one time at the range. What is important is that it perform consistently when needed.
100% reliability is more important than all else. Bushmasters reputation is well known and deserved.
Wow you guys really are harsh, why not live and let live? I bought a Busmaster 2yrs ago and it shot 5/8s of an inch@100 with the first load I tried! That was non FF, I just recently put a FF rail on it along with a few more upgrades.
I won't claim 100% reliability, but only because I didn't know to run it wet and I ruined the gas rings after 800 rounds.
I now am more educated, and after replacing the gas rings I have not had a single failure in another 5-700 rounds.
I just love how you guys jump on anybody who didn't spend twice what a rifle is worth, it's like you just gotta justify your choice and spending. :big_boss:
BTW I don't have to go to the Range or take a class.... it's all open range out here!
I hope you realize that a majority of the community here is leo/mil/etc... I cant see how someone could be so disrespectful to the people that protect your freedom.
As for the city boy comment, the closest one to me is 80 miles away. I live in a small community of 4200.
ETA - my range consists of a couple hundred thousand square miles of forest land.
I am gonna guess your just a pig, because you act like a fking punk.
By pig, I'm guessing you are referring to law enforcement...and the answer is none of the above. Get your trolling fix before the ban hammer comes because it's not far off.
Please elaborate on this and be clear so there is no misundertanding.
Iragcunz Pretty fierce duty to be gettin paid by the bigboys huh?
wetidlerjr
03-28-12, 05:57
Iragcunz Pretty fierce duty to be gettin paid by the bigboys huh?
Please elaborate on this and be clear so there is no misundertanding.
I am VERY interested in hearing this answer.
Dogbiter is irrelevant and has been banished. I know where he was going and that won't be tolerated on this site.
wetidlerjr
03-28-12, 06:10
Dogbiter is irrelevant and has been banished. I know where he was going and that won't be tolerated on this site.
That is a real good answer. He was making my head hurt.
John_Burns
03-28-12, 09:12
What would be the best way to go about a hobby gun for a younger shooter? He has a lot of fun shooting with me and has expresed a lot of interest in my AR's. The shooter in quetion is 18, and is a safe and courtious shooter, but he will never be competing, nor betting his life on the weapon. In all honesty he'll probably shoot it 5, maybe 6 times a year, maybe 100 rounds per trip.
I want to get him a decent hobby gun that will be fairly trouble free, but it doesnt need to be "tier one quality" and I'm sure not giving him one of my Colt's or BCM's ;). I'm willing to commit about $600 to this - Which I think is decent for him getting a range gun for free.
I've been debating either getting a del-ton rifle kit and assembling it on a stripped lower, a S&W Sporter [although it does have the disadvantage of lacking a Forward Assist and dust cover - not that it should matter, but you know how kids are], or trying to pick up a used bushmaster/similar.
Yeah, I know - none of us would really want any of these as our first line weapon - it won't be his either; this will really only be a toy for him, I just want to get him something that wont be totally problematic, and ergo bum him out that rifle didnt work. just a trouble free plinker he can have fun with is all we're after.
If you've any other suggestions that would also be appreciated.
THanks in advance!~
What a great thing to do for this young shooter. Well done.
The following kit would be a great way to accomplish what you want:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-mid-length-lighter-weight-profile-chrome-lined-mp-rifle-kit.html
I will diverge from the standard M4CARBINE.NET mantra of purchasing a complete rifle in this case. I put one of these together for a friend of mine who was also very price conscious. I've got nothing negative to say about it. Outstanding parts for the price.
With this kit, you are getting much higher quality components than you are buying an inexpensive complete gun from Bushmaster etc. All you need is a stripped lower receiver, which you can find for next to nothing. There's also a carbine version if you don't want the midlength.
The above makes a lot sense and if you involve him in the assembly he will not only have a new rifle but will also have a much better idea of how it works and how to keep it running.
Beat Trash
03-28-12, 09:47
Iraqgunz, thanks for hitting the eject button on Dogbiter. He needed to be shown the door.
Back on topic, the M&P Sport may be a valid gun for the OP's intended usage. But trying to find one in stock currently may be a challenge.
I was going to pick up a Sport for for a similar reason. The LEO price is in the low $500 range. Every contact I called quoted me 4-6 months backlogged.
It would seem that availability of AR's has changed in just the last month or so.
steelonsteel
03-28-12, 19:07
My local place had a couple S&W M&P Sports in stock. The normal price was $660, but they were having a sale that knocked off $45, so I paid $656.04 out the door after tax and everything. Will be giving it to him this weekend I hope.
Thanks for the advice everyone - truly appreciated!
The M&P 15 sport is a good rifle. I had one and had no issues with it. I sold it to my father in law and moved on to something different. If you are just looking for something for him to play around with, ad you stated, a good inexpensive option may be an M&P 15-22. It will be inexpensive for you. They can be had for $400-500 and function just like a standard AR, so he can learn the platform. Plus, .22LR is dirt cheap.
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