Please help me choose a 5.45X39 upper

[g-men10455]

I have narrow it down to these 3 uppers, if you have any experience with any of them please chime in;

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/495323/smith-and-wesson-ar-15-a3-flat-top-upper-assembly-545x39mm-1-in-8-twist-16-barrel-chrome-lined-chrome-moly-matte-a2-front-sight-flash-hider-with-30-round-magazine-pre-ban?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1893

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU4260MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.45x39+Upper&groupid=150

Thank you.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Benjamin Franklin

[Suwannee Tim]

The S&W upper is my choice. In fact, I have two. You can get it cheaper from CDNN sports (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/smwe5upnew.html).

The Adams Arms upper, I would avoid. I built one with an Adams barrel, upper and piston kit which I subsequently rebuilt as DI. It worked just fine but there is a big disadvantage: If you are shooting corrosive milsurp ammo the gun has to be hot water cleaned every time you shoot it. With a piston gun there is that much more stuff to clean. DI, less stuff to clean. A DI gun is distinctly superior in this application.

I have no knowledge of the Spikes.

Here is a good thread on cleaning. (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=87949)

[crossgun]

Get the S&W. I have two and all run without issue. One is chopped to 10.5 and runs like a top.

[Whiteox]

I have the Huldra 5.45 upper which is basically the adams arms upper. I like it. There is very little corrosive crud that gets into the lower with the piston system.

There are extra parts to clean but you also don't have to worry about not knowing how gunked up the gas tube is.

The Huldra is very well put together and about $40 less than the Rainier.

[Suwannee Tim]

I have the Huldra 5.45 upper which is basically the adams arms upper. I like it. There is very little corrosive crud that gets into the lower with the piston system.

There are extra parts to clean but you also don't have to worry about not knowing how gunked up the gas tube is.

The Huldra is very well put together and about $40 less than the Rainier.

It seems Whiteox and I have exactly the opposite opinions. Tell me, Whiteox, how many shots do you have through your upper and how many times have you cleaned it? My experience with this East Block milsurp ammo is the upper gets very dirty, piston or DI, dirty enough to require cleaning. I don't know anyone who worries about how gunked up their gas tube is. You can worry about your gas tube if you want but you certainly don't "have to worry".

There is a little bushing on the breech end of the Adams operating rod which is easy to loose and essential to function.

[velodemon]

I also have a Huldra Arms 5.45 upper. I have 1700 rounds through mine. The only malfunction I have had is one failure to lock back on the last round. I have cleaned the gun 3 times, I have zero corrosion, most of the upper and moving parts are melonite coated. Thus far I am very happy with my purchase.

[Suwannee Tim]

Before my Adams barrel started keyholing I had 9,400 shots. I typically shot 400 to 800 per session cleaning that afternoon or evening at the latest. I have on two occasions seen small amounts of corrosion on the bolt behind the gas rings even after an interval of only a few hours between shooting and cleaning. This area is Melonite treated. I would not be sanguine about corrosion nor postpone cleaning beyond three or four hours, even with the Melonite. In the old days shooters (myself included) shooting corrosive ammo in guns with no exotic coating preferred to clean on the spot after shooting. If you are planning to wear out barrels and bolts a little bit of corrosion here and there is no big deal. If you plan to keep a gun for years that little bit of corrosion will grow to a lot of corrosion. If you plan to shoot a few hundred shots and put your gun away uncleaned you might get away with it for a few days or weeks. You may get away with it a few times. You will some day find your rifle damaged by rust. I have seen too many nice rifles ruined by corrosive ammo to be sanguine myself. Bear in mind what I repeated from Mat at Adams about the gas port being vulnerable. I don't know if the inside of the gas port is Melonite treated or not but it will erode through. When it does the corrosion will get behind the Melonite and get into the barrel.

One of my father's cronies owned a gun drill, honing machine and a gigantic Pratt and Whitney rifling machine. His business was reboring and rerifling ruined 30-06 barrels to 8mm-06, 338-06 or 35 Whelen. He had a thriving side business for a couple of decades. He salvaged a shit load of ruined barrels. I doubt he ever had a repeat customer though. Having corrosive ammo ruin a good gun is an experience most people are not eager to repeat.


.....I have 1700 rounds through mine.....I have cleaned the gun 3 times.....

Can you give us a better idea of the history of this gun? How many shooting trips? How long between shooting and cleaning? Did you apply anything between shooting and cleaning to prevent corrosion? How humid is your area? It is a well known fact that humidity is very important in corrosion.

[velodemon]

Can you give us a better idea of the history of this gun? How many shooting trips? How long between shooting and cleaning? Did you apply anything between shooting and cleaning to prevent corrosion? How humid is your area? It is a well known fact that humidity is very important in corrosion.

I bought the upper at the end of 10/11. I mostly shoot in my back yard, typically 30 to 120 rounds per outing. I lube the BCG with mobile one after cleaning. I live in SC but it is not too humid in the fall/winter. Gun is keep in a safe with a humidifier.

[Suwannee Tim]

I bought the upper at the end of 10/11......

I do think you would be well advised to take better precautions against corrosion. At a minimum I would wet out the gas piston and cylinder assembly making sure some oil went down the gas port and oiling the barrel good. Any coating, even Melonite will eventually fail. It's a sad thing to look down a bore and see that horrible fine brown dust coating. Lest I be misunderstood, I had no issues with my AA piston kit either in 5.45 mm form or 5.56 mm. If you want a piston I would suggest AA.

[Littlelebowski]

S&W, hands down.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[lt211]

Littlelebowski & Suwannee Tim can you use regular 5.56 ar mags in the S&W 5.45? Or is a dedicated mag?

[Littlelebowski]

Littlelebowski & Suwannee Tim can you use regular 5.56 ar mags in the S&W 5.45? Or is a dedicated mag?

I'd recommend ASC 5.45 mags.

[sjc3081]

Not to contradict others but I have had 100% reliability with 30 round 5.56 mags old blk follower, loaded with 20 rounds.

[jjw]

Not to contradict others but I have had 100% reliability with 30 round 5.56 mags old blk follower, loaded with 20 rounds.

no contradiction at all we can do that just not the maximum returns on the gear

we load 25-26 Rd's in 5x45 mags. same price for nib so why not just run what the guy who built the gun says run.

smith mags were made by c-products. few knew.

no disrespect to you as i dont know you. good question BTW. i see people do it a lot.no my favorite idea.

toooo many people on this board buy a lot of bells and whistles (read toys) to hang on their gun. does not an operator make. people here buy overpriced gear cause the guru's said so, hey they want to be cool.

i am not a gamer nor am i even a gun guy. just wound up using them for a lot of years. i dont know anymore than ford motor either and i drive an explorer. none of this is worth a shit off this computer board. i am here for what i DONT KNOW. not what i have used for a loooong time.

i am only posting to help people do 3 things
1. not buy crap form dun dealers
2. stop them from buying junk
3. help them realize what they will really use in the "real world"

[Suwannee Tim]

I have been using C-Products magazines and AR Stoner mags which are, I believe made by C-Products. They certainly look the same down to the smallest detail except for the markings and finish. I ordered some ASC mags and after two and a half months and four or five phone calls I got tired of waiting and not being able to get a straight story on delivery. I cancelled the order. At first the C-P mags sucked and sucked bad. I diagnosed the failures as related to the anti-tilt features on the followers. There is a little tail on the primer end of the follower, I cut it off with large wire cutters. There are two little legs on each side of the bullet end of the follower, I cut the inside ones off with little bitty wire cutters. All 8 of my mags work pretty good now. I tried a GI mag and it worked fine with 10 or fewer cartridges. I suspect cutting the anti-tilt features off it's follower would have made it reliable with 28 cartridges. I'll see about getting some photos. If you can get ASC mags that would be your simplest solution. I have never heard anyone say they have problems. The key to making a magazine work with 5.45 is the follower must have no anti-tilt features as it must tilt to accommodate the much steeper taper of the 5.45 vs the 5.56 for which the mags were designed. You can confirm this for yourself by taking the guts out of the mag and carefully stacking rounds in it until they get near the floor plate end. 5.56 rounds are pretty near perpendicular to the axis of the mag at that point. 5.45 rounds are sharply tilted. It's no surprise, no rocket science, what is amazing is that C-P / AR Stoner couldn't figure it out. And, evidently, ASC is the old C-Products bunch. I guess they ruined the C-Products name and decided to start over with a new name no one knows.


http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2447.jpg


http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2452.jpg

[Dave-HuldraArms]

Hi guys,

Appreciate the support and recommendation for you guys that are running our upper. We tested a 545 and went 4800+ rounds, no cleaning and no lubrication. We did a video series on it on our youtube channel if you are interested. At that round count is started to slow and have stoppages, all of that shooting was with cheap surplus corrosive ammo. After the test we then detail stripped it and cleaned it, no rust, nor corrosion anywhere. It actually cleaned up pretty easily too, all of the piston components pretty much wipe down with a little solvent.

Not cleaning a rifle/upper after shooting surplus is something we do not recommend but we wanted to test it to see how it would do, all of us were impressed. Of course though if shooting corrosive ammo clean the gun appropriately after shooting, and of course us lube.

As far as the bushing goes, while it is not recommended, we test fired one rifle with no bushing and no spring. A little surface marking but the gun functioned just fine. So the bushing has its purpose the gun will run fine without it. The purpose of that test was a "what if" it got lost in the field for some reason, will it run and yes it does.

I can echo what everyone else said about mags, ASC mags by far are better then any of the C Prod mags. At first pretty much everyone used C Prod as they were the only game in town. The ASC mags are much better, we sell a ton of them.

If I can answer any questions about my product please let me know, but check out our videos, the 545 is a great training/practice round.

Take care,
Dave

[Whiteox]

I've put about 500 rounds through my Huldra upper and cleaned it twice. I didn't find it difficult to clean the piston part by the gas block. I just take out the plug which requires no tools, run a patch with solvent, run a clean patch and put it back in.

I will grant you that the little spring that goes on the breach end of the push rod is annoying. The second time I just remembered the keep the upper pointed up after I took out the plug and then the spring never has a chance to come out.

I'm not an AR guru or an operator. I'm just a guy relating what my experience with the Huldra upper was and it's been overwhelmingly positive so far.

I wonder if anybody who has run both the DI and Piston gun can comment on a difference with how much gas ends up by your face. My first time out with this was indoors and the corrosive ammo smells like hot cat pee. I suspect that gas stays further from your face with the piston but have never shot a DI 5.45 so I have no reference.

[vicious_cb]

I would get the cheapest one. You can get an S&W upper for $500, considering the price of the other 2 uppers you can buy a spam can of ammo with the money you save.

[g-men10455]

That's what I'm planning to do.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Benjamin Franklin