BAD-ASS vs. BAD-CASS

[ColdDeadHands]

I just wondered why Battle Arms development doesn't make the semi auto lever with the select fire heavy duty dove-tail. This forum is all about hard use but apparently everybody is happy with the regular design of the lever?! I for one want the most heavy duty fail proof parts I can get on my fighting carbine and refuse to buy a BAD-ASS till it's offered with the HD dovetail...just seems like a better design.

[Odie Dozer]

http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/7-BAD-CASS-SA-COMBAT-AMBI-SAFETY-SELECTOR-AR15-AR10-SEMIAUTO-BAD-CASS-SA.htm

They do offer it, you should have searched their site first.

[ALCOAR]

CASS-3P ST just became avail. today....

You can read more about it here...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54648&page=40

and here...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98249

Ive been running a new CASS-3P ST on my MWS which I feel it goes best with given it's much more robust nature.

To answer your question directly.....there isn't a single thing wrong with the normal bad-ass/st with non dovetail attachments, never had a single lever come loose on the numerous bad-ass/st units Ive been running on all my guns now since they first came out.

So with that said, the new CASS models aren't so much needed over the normal units, and in total honesty they are kinda overkill...but the dovetail method of attachment is incredible sexy, elegant, and ultimately that much more robust. Some people will just enjoy the added beauty in the design, and the extra peace of mind I guess knowing that these are even more bombproof than the normal BAD-ASS models.

[ColdDeadHands]

http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/7-BAD-CASS-SA-COMBAT-AMBI-SAFETY-SELECTOR-AR15-AR10-SEMIAUTO-BAD-CASS-SA.htm

They do offer it, you should have searched their site first.

I actually did just before I started this thread...didn't see it. :D

[ColdDeadHands]

CASS-3P ST just became avail. today....

You can read more about it here...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54648&page=40

and here...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98249

Ive been running a new CASS-3P ST on my MWS which I feel it goes best with given it's much more robust nature.

To answer your question directly.....there isn't a single thing wrong with the normal bad-ass/st with non dovetail attachments, never had a single lever come loose on the numerous bad-ass/st units Ive been running on all my guns now since they first came out.

So with that said, the new CASS models aren't so much needed over the normal units, and in total honesty they are kinda overkill...but the dovetail method of attachment is incredible sexy, elegant, and ultimately that much more robust. Some people will just enjoy the added beauty in the design, and the extra peace of mind I guess knowing that these are even more bombproof than the normal BAD-ASS models.

Cool, I'll be ordering one soon. It might be overkill but as long as it doesn't make my carbine half a pound heavier I'm good with over-kill.:dance3:

[R0CKETMAN]

Yep they do...Roger answers email in his sleep
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/33ac1ced.jpg

[jonconsiglio]

Double post

[jonconsiglio]

Definitely a great addition to their line. I posted about it in the Bad-ASS thread that Trident linked but I didn't even notice the second thread he posted. I'll post there too.

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Bad-ASS-001.jpg

[Duffy]

Thank you guys for your input!

We do our best to operate within the rules and, we respect the mods who have been extraordinarily generous to us, so the news of the CASS-3P, SA wasn't announced in the AR General Discussion as I didn't think a self serving announcement would belong there, but it was posted in our own forum under Manufacturers.

The CASS-3P was never intended to be a semi auto, as the existing, non-dovetailed semi auto selector works very well, and a semi auto, dovetailed selector would be expensive, these are the reasons we did not produce them when the original CASS-3P came out.

Many customers have asked us to produce them, so we did. We had had them since last December, but couldn't release them because we were still waiting for the instruction cards to be printed :rolleyes:

The CASS-3P family of selectors are, honestly, a pain in the butt :sarcastic: Each selector goes through four manual checks on the dovetail interface, and due to their tight tolerance, each selector is hand fitted before being packaged up and shipped.

The result is a selector that's over-built, and more expensive than what a semi auto selector should be. I think we've finally made a dent in folks' general distrust of screws on a selector, and the CASS-3P will further dispel it. If you're looking for the finest selector any amount of money can buy, I don't think the CASS-3P can be bested. Matthew Hazard at jerkingthetrigger.com tested one last year, he removed the mounting screw and was able to operate the selector couple hundred times before he gave up from boredom lol.

All told, the CASS-3P, SA in 90 isn't prohibitively more expensive than our original semi auto selector. We briefly toyed with the idea of standardizing all of our selectors to the dovetail design, but we couldn't abandon the vast user base that already has the originals, so we'll keep both designs in production :)

[ColdDeadHands]

That's cool. I think the reason I didn't see it on your website was that the selectors are mixed with triggers, ambi mag catches, muzzle devices & package deals for each item. A little categorizing would help tremendously. :p

[jonconsiglio]

That's cool. I think the reason I didn't see it on your website was that the selectors are mixed with triggers, ambi mag catches, muzzle devices & package deals for each item. A little categorizing would help tremendously. :p

Also, it wasn't on the website until just the past couple days, so it migh not have even been there.

I think the CASS-3p is great. I did a write-up on it on Lightfighter, 1911forum and DefensiveCarry. I've gotten a lot of PM's about it and everyone locally that has tried it, as well as the standard and standard ST, were very impressed and a number of them have ordered a selector in one form or another.

If I had a lot of extra money, I'd buy at least three more CASS-3p's for consistency. Since I don't, I will happily run my standard Bad-ASS selectors.

For me, the CASS-3p is just extra assurance. I don't actually think the standard needed improvement.

[Duffy]

Thank you Jon!

We're in the process of updating our website so there will be categories, instead of all the products being displayed on a single page.

While the dovetail interface is an improvement, it's not really needed on a semi, or select fire selector. As Jon pointed out, it's extra insurance against screws backing out. Between having it and not having it, the extra insurance is worth $10 in monetary terms, in actual use, I reckon its worth is more than its dollar value.

Every CASS-3P, M16 is shipped with two extra screws. Starting from last week, every selector, not just CASS-3P family of selectors, is shipped with two extra screws and a detent spring.

The detent spring serves two purposes: in cases where there isn't enough spring pressure, a portion of the provided spring can be cut off and used as a spacer. In cases where there's too much spring pressure, a user can modify the provided spring (by cutting off a coil or two) while retaining the existing spring for use elsewhere. We try to cover all bases where we do not have control over: the depth of the spring hole in the pistol grip, and receivers that may or may not be in spec.

The extra screws are rarely needed. As long as a user applies a little bit of thread locker on the screw, they should not back out. This isn't a theory, since being on the market in May of 2010, we've had fewer than a handful of users that requested extra screws, and it's usually because too much torque was applied and the screw broke, or thread locker wasn't used and the screw backed out.

All the same, the screws aren't common items at a hardware store, so we preempt their loss by providing extras.

Both the screws and detents were items that Trident and a few others had suggested long ago (Trident mostly :p), we had not seen the need for their inclusion, and even now they're extras that the vast majority of users will not need and use. As with the insurance metaphor, it's better to have and not need, than to need and not have :)

[jonconsiglio]

I keep a couple extra screws and a wrench in my grip of each AR. I do need more springs though as each lower and grip combination is different in my experience.

Even though it's not needed, I'll likely pick up another CASS-3P soon, I feel I just have to have one on my 10.5" now.

[Duffy]

Jon, 45 or 90 degree? ;)

[jonconsiglio]

Jon, 45 or 90 degree? ;)

I think I'm completely sold on these 45's now man! I almost don't want to use the 45's because every time I buy a new rifle I have to get a new selector. I could stick with stock if I used 90's now.

But… I'm all about the 45 now. As much as I like having options, some days life would be simpler without them!

[Duffy]

You know how some people celebrate their birthdays all month? ;) :D

[jonconsiglio]

You know how some people celebrate their birthdays all month? ;) :D

Haha, you're a good man Roger. I'll take really good care of the Cayenne when you get your 911. So kind of you!

Seriously though, you're a good guy. I imagine I speak for Trident and a few others as well that no matter what comes out from other companies down the road, I'll absolutely stay a loyal customer. To find great products and great people in the same place is not a common occurrence. To be treated so well is extremely rare.

Thanks again for everything.

[Duffy]

Thank you Jon, you guys have been great friends to us, we always say thank you in more concrete terms :)

[ColdDeadHands]

What's the deal with the 45's? Do they fit in a LMT lower? I read something on the website about fit issues?
I hope it will fit my LMT lower because I would like to have the same setup as on my SCAR.

[Duffy]

The 45 degree selector will not work on a non-45 degree receiver without modification.

We had to put a "lawyer pin", essentially a block, on the selector center in order for it to be incompatible, this is done on purpose, as the FIRE engraving on a non-45 degree compatible receiver doesn't line up with the position indicator groove on the lever, this is strictly a liability issue.

If the lawyer pin is removed, the warranty is voided.

We don't encourage or suggest its removal, the pin was put there for everyone's benefit (so we, our customers and dealers) don't get sued :(

[Orange-Fox]

I for one check the "BAD-A.S.S. (ambi selector) just arrived......w/ pics " thread every day for my one stop shop of everything BAD-ASS, I only found out about the release because I checked out jerkingthetrigger.com's blog by chance and I, like most other on this forum probably hardly ever check out the manufactures section (at the time of this typing(03:39) there are 365 people viewing the AR general discussion board and only 25 people viewing the entire manufacturers section which consist of over 30 boards) I don't think any one here would mind if it was made into a sticky as Battle Arms Development has made a great advancement to the ar/m4 platform.

When will Rainier Arms have the 45 FDE's instock perchance?

[Duffy]

Rainier Arms doesn't carry the Cerakoted selectors, and we have only limited quantity until we start making more units each run. If you need FDE levers, please email me ;)

I'll post the availability of the CASS-3P in the thread Trident started :)

[ColdDeadHands]

The 45 degree selector will not work on a non-45 degree receiver without modification.

We had to put a "lawyer pin", essentially a block, on the selector center in order for it to be incompatible, this is done on purpose, as the FIRE engraving on a non-45 degree compatible receiver doesn't line up with the position indicator groove on the lever, this is strictly a liability issue.

If the lawyer pin is removed, the warranty is voided.

We don't encourage or suggest its removal, the pin was put there for everyone's benefit (so we, our customers and dealers) don't get sued :(

Thanks for the info! Looks like a great product - can't wait to try one out on my rifle.

[Duffy]

As always, y'all please be sure to mention M4C in shipping instructions when placing an order on our site, you never know what we'll throw in :ph34r:

[ColdDeadHands]

As always, y'all please be sure to mention M4C in shipping instructions when placing an order on our site, you never know what we'll throw in :ph34r:

Cool - will do! :)