My $15 Engraving

[Funkenstein]

Just got this one back and am about to go pick up my second lower. Got it done for $15 and am pretty happy.

The picture doesn't really show it that well but it is actually engraved into the metal and not done with laser.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2i0aes3.jpg

[Scoby]

Looks good to me.

[Smash]

How deep is the engraving? It's somewhat hard to tell from the picture. I ask because I think there are engraving depth requirements. Am I wrong on this?

[MrSmitty]

Required depth of .003" and height of 1/16", per ATF guidelines. (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-6.pdf)

Section that this refers to:

Section 7.4 The identification of firearms.

7.4.1 Serial numbers.
Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm.120

The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be
wholly unobstructed from plain view.

For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.

[Smash]

Thanks for the confirmation. I knew I had seen this previously but didnt take the time to look it back up.

I would imagine with .003 being the depth requirement this wouldnt be hard to achieve, and only brought it up because the engraving on this piece looks shallower than some. I am not saying that this engraving doesnt meet this standard. Just posing the question for further information.

[wahoo95]

Based on that pic he has met the depth requirements ad they aren't very deep

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[MrSmitty]

It looks very similar to work that I had done by Orion. I actually expected it to be a little bigger/deeper, I forget it's there sometimes. I'm guessing Orion knows what they are doing though. I don't have any way to measure the depth of mine but 3/1000" isn't very deep to begin with!

[Elessar]

As far as I know, the depth requirements apply to the serial number, but not to the maker name and location.

[MrSmitty]

As far as I know, the depth requirements apply to the serial number, but not to the maker name and location.

From everything that I've read, it applies to the serial number and 'other specified markings', as specified in chapter 6: Making NFA Firearms by Nonlicensee, that I had linked to above. That document refers to 27 CFR 497.102 (http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.4.7.27.2.html) for 'other specified markings,' which would be name, city, and state in this case.

[MrSmitty]

I believe I also saw a scan of a letter that a member had received from the ATF outlining what needed to be engraved when using a Form 1, and the size and depth. If I am misremembering and misinterpreting this info, please correct me as I am not an expert on NFA law. I've done a ton of research on this topic before I decided to SBR a lower recently.

Best bet would be to contact the ATF if anyone is unsure!

[Funkenstein]

Thanks for all the info. I hope it is in within regs !

[Elessar]

It looks like I had it backwards. It is the 1/16 inch tall letters that is specified for the serial number, but not the other info... Correct?



From everything that I've read, it applies to the serial number and 'other specified markings', as specified in chapter 6: Making NFA Firearms by Nonlicensee, that I had linked to above. That document refers to 27 CFR 497.102 (http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.4.7.27.2.html) for 'other specified markings,' which would be name, city, and state in this case.

[Funkenstein]

Hope so, they are 3/16 of an inch tall.

[MrSmitty]

It looks like I had it backwards. It is the 1/16 inch tall letters that is specified for the serial number, but not the other info... Correct?

The wording in 27 C.F.R. § 479.102 (http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.4.7.27.2.html) can be confusing but that does seem to be the case, as it only specifies the .003" depth for 'certain additional information.' 1/16" is pretty tiny though, it would almost be illegible.

His engraving should be good to go. As I said, it looks almost exactly like the work I had done by Orion Arms. Not a bad deal for $15, it cost me that much to ship my stripped lower to them alone...

[Funkenstein]

Awesome. I should be picking my Charles Daly stripped up today and I will post a picture. It was also done for $15.

[sinlessorrow]

.003 is actually a little less than a sheet of paper. Basically if you can see the bare aluminum your there

[Smash]

So the question that I've been curious about is... Where did you have this done if you do not mind sharing?

[Funkenstein]

Sure, it's from a little business in my hometown that does a lot of engraving for awards and other various things called Jer-Anny Awards. I just walked in, it's an older couple, retired sheriff.

Turn around is quick if you can make it to their shop before they close. Sometimes it's noon but mostly it's 5pm. I'm not sure if they would take shipping orders but when I pick my next lower up I will ask.


So the question that I've been curious about is... Where did you have this done if you do not mind sharing?

[sinlessorrow]

So the question that I've been curious about is... Where did you have this done if you do not mind sharing?

Most engraving places, my local mom and pop trophy shop did mine.

They have to do it by hand so the finish around the letters may chip but get some aluminum black and it looks brand new

[Smash]

Yeah, I knew most places wouldn't have a problem doing that. Just had reservations since Im trying to be exact with my execution of this process. It's good to actually get testimony from someone who has done it. I conversed with Orion about doing it once when I was in the area but it was around the holidays and timing didn't work out. With as many people doing awards and trophies for the military around the Camp Lejeune area I'm sure someone here would do a good job.

[MrSmitty]

Did they reblacken it or did you take care of that? Either way, can't beat $15.

Orion's turnaround was really fast when I had them do my last lower. They had it back out the next day. I wish I could find a local shop that I knew I could trust to do my next lower. And you have to completely strip your lower for Orion to do it, which can be a bit of a pain I guess.

[Funkenstein]

Well that's the thing, I asked them as well and they said it was black all the way through. However, on the Charles Daly one I just picked up there are a few signs of silver showing through almost like chipping.

I will be posting some "stickman-esque" photos in a bit.

[sinlessorrow]

Well that's the thing, I asked them as well and they said it was black all the way through. However, on the Charles Daly one I just picked up there are a few signs of silver showing through almost like chipping.

I will be posting some "stickman-esque" photos in a bit.

I would verify depth, Im pretty sure the depth of the hard coat is .002" so to get to .003" you should see aluminum like mine.

[MrSmitty]

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9864/lowerengraving.jpg

This is my engraving from Orion just for comparison.

ETA: After seeing the two side by side, mine does look a little deeper. I used the lighting when I took that pic to make it stand out so it's hard to tell.

[sinlessorrow]

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9864/lowerengraving.jpg

This is my engraving from Orion just for comparison.

ETA: After seeing the two side by side, mine does look a little deeper. I used the lighting when I took that pic to make it stand out so it's hard to tell.

Both orion and Ident use lasers to engrave. Doing it by hand will chip the coating, and almost no company in the US has a laser that can cut deep enough to get to .003

[MrSmitty]

Orion states that they meet and exceed the requirements set by the ATF:

http://www.orion-arms.com/atf-requirements/what-are-the-atf-required-sizes-and-depths-for-engra.html

And they don't use lasers:

http://www.orion-arms.com/engraving-questions/what-type-of-engraving-do-you-do.html

[sinlessorrow]

Orion states that they meet and exceed the requirements set by the ATF:

http://www.orion-arms.com/atf-requirements/what-are-the-atf-required-sizes-and-depths-for-engra.html

And they don't use lasers:

http://www.orion-arms.com/engraving-questions/what-type-of-engraving-do-you-do.html

Good to know. You can also do it by hand with a dremel 290-01. I have done it before and its not bad at all. Just hit it with some aluminum black when your done and it looks brand new

[MrSmitty]

I don't know if I'd trust my handwriting, I should have been a doctor.

Is there an easy way to measure the depth of something like this?

[sinlessorrow]

I don't know if I'd trust my handwriting, I should have been a doctor.

Is there an easy way to measure the depth of something like this?

Get some type of molding putty or something and press over the engraving and take it off and measure, if its deeper than a sheet of Notebook paper you are set

The dremel i mentioned did come with stencils :)

[MrSmitty]

Good call! I guess my brain isn't working that fast right now, it's been a long day.

We're probably starting to split hairs with this now, I've never heard of anyone having an issue with their engraving depth. I've never even heard of anyone getting into trouble for anything related to an NFA engraving but it would be a PITA thing to get whacked for. I always like to have my ass covered :smile:

[sinlessorrow]

Good call! I guess my brain isn't working that fast right now, it's been a long day.

We're probably starting to split hairs with this now, I've never heard of anyone having an issue with their engraving depth. I've never even heard of anyone getting into trouble for anything related to an NFA engraving but it would be a PITA thing to get whacked for. I always like to have my ass covered :smile:

The chances of getting introuble even if it doesnt meet the spec is slim, could you imagine the ATF argiung over .001" in court

If you can easily read it i wouldnt worry about it. No one will question it if they can see your form 1, and the engraving.

One one of m rifles i actually left the aluminum, looks nice actually with my name engraved in aluminum with black all around

[bsmith_shoot]

The only instance I would see them pressing the matter, was if the weapon was used in a crime, or if you had to use it defensively. Why risk it though? I say just get it done right the first time and dont worry bout it.

[Funkenstein]

Here is my Charles Daly. The plan to do some higher quality photos failed when I realized I put my lighting in storage.

Anyway here it is.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2wex4ig.jpg

[Quiet-Matt]

When I got mine back from a local engraver, it met the required depth, but I felt that it wasn't enough and it should be as deep as the serial number. I put it on the bench, put in my magnifying visor and went over it with a carbide tipped etching tool. Now it's probably .005 deep. I like to leave no doubt. ;)

[usmcvet]

Here is my Charles Daly. The plan to do some higher quality photos failed when I realized I put my lighting in storage.

Anyway here it is.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2wex4ig.jpg

I just got two of those in from G&R for $50 each!!!! All sold out now. Just waiting on LPK's now.

[Funkenstein]

Haha yeah I saw that ad on Facebook and jumped on it.

Game me an excuse to build an SBR :dance3:


I just got two of those in from G&R for $50 each!!!! All sold out now. Just waiting on LPK's now.

[usmcvet]

Where did you get it done?

[Funkenstein]

Sure, it's from a little business in my hometown that does a lot of engraving for awards and other various things called Jer-Anny Awards. I just walked in, it's an older couple, retired sheriff.

Turn around is quick if you can make it to their shop before they close. Sometimes it's noon but mostly it's 5. I think they take orders but you have to pay shipping and they prefer it to be stripped cause its very difficult to get a whole lower in their machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash
So the question that I've been curious about is... Where did you have this done if you do not mind sharing?

[usmcvet]

I just emailed a local shop I've used in the last for plaques.

[Bret]

I'm not sure if they would take shipping orders but when I pick my next lower up I will ask.
They'd have to have an FFL to receive firearms shipments.

[Funkenstein]

He may since he's a former sheriff but I doubt it.