View Full Version : Gun Locks suck, get well made safes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yr6ATdaDQ8
montanadave
02-21-12, 22:41
Interesting presentation. Thanks for the link.
An Undocumented Worker
02-21-12, 22:52
Wow that was a very informative presentation, and certainly gives me an idea of how secure some of the products are or can be out there.
Big fan of DEFCON. That was a great presentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yr6ATdaDQ8
Under the vid:
" Come and learn how your favorite gun lockbox might be preventing your toddler from having an accidental discharge, but why it's not at all likely to repel a criminal or even perhaps a curious teenager. "
If people really don't know that about the little lock boxes they use and need a 30+ min vid to learn it, that's pretty sad, but not surprising I guess.
However, if it helps some one to learn, all good to me. :cool:
As my grandfather taught me many moons ago... "
Locks are only there to keep honest people honest."
In the same 38 minutes any reasonably competent burglar could have a safe costing thousands open with some hand tools and a good sledgehammer.
In the same 38 minutes any reasonably competent burglar could have a safe costing thousands open with some hand tools and a good sledgehammer.
Define a safe in the above context costing thousands, because if you think anyone is getting into say an AMSEC TL-30 rated safe with "some hand tools and a good sledgehammer" in 30+ mins I'd call BS on that.
Moose-Knuckle
02-22-12, 18:46
Watch any of the storage locker "reality TV" shows and you will see just how fast any buffoon can get into a safe and or lock box.
There are some other youtube vids showing two guys opening up various $2K+ safes with wrecking bars in under ten minutes.
People have such a false since of security when it comes to such things and deadbolts on their doors.
There are some other youtube vids showing two guys opening up various $2K+ safes with wrecking bars in under ten minutes.
I have seen the vids. What you are talking about are RSCs, not safes. Companies sell their RSCs as "safes" to people who don't know any better and yes, depending on the RSC a few strong guys with long crow bars and such can pop one open.
Moose-Knuckle
02-22-12, 21:49
I have seen the vids. What you are talking about are RSCs, not safes. Companies sell their RSCs as "safes" to people who don't know any better and yes, depending on the RSC a few strong guys with long crow bars and such can pop one open.
I understand what you are saying, but 99% of consumers and the small percentage of gun owners that even own a "safe" do not know the differance between an RSC (Residential Security Container) and a real "safe".
For those that think an RSC is a safe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M&feature=related
Then you have guys like this, he doesn't need any tools other than his bare hands and this is on REAL safes.
Jeff Sitar
http://www.jimmyr.com/blog/Worlds_Best_Safe_Cracker_21_2007.php
Define a safe in the above context costing thousands, because if you think anyone is getting into say an AMSEC TL-30 rated safe with "some hand tools and a good sledgehammer" in 30+ mins I'd call BS on that.
You do realize that UL only tests the door for a TL rating, yes?
I've personally seen a TL-30 fire safe opened by a former professional burglar with a hammer, set of chisels, and a sledgehammer in about 10 minutes. He attacked it from the side, ignoring the door entirely.
It was a Gibraltar.
Watch any of the storage locker "reality TV" shows and you will see just how fast any buffoon can get into a safe and or lock box.
There are some other youtube vids showing two guys opening up various $2K+ safes with wrecking bars in under ten minutes.
People have such a false since of security when it comes to such things and deadbolts on their doors.
And that is why safe location becomes important. If the safe is anchored to the wall in the back of a closet you limit the ability to work on it with tools in confined spaces.
And of course my favorite is the false wall in the back of the closet concealing the safe.
Moose-Knuckle
02-23-12, 02:56
And that is why safe location becomes important. If the safe is anchored to the wall in the back of a closet you limit the ability to work on it with tools in confined spaces.
And of course my favorite is the false wall in the back of the closet concealing the safe.
Location, location, location. . .
But OPSEC is just as important.
There was a guy who posted on a gun forum (I forget which) several years back on how his safe was broken into by theives while they were gone for a week to an out of town funeral. The safe was concealed behind a false wall in his daugher's bedroom. Who ever hit the house knew him or knew someone who had details about his life; when the guy and his family were gone, that he had a gun safe full of guns, and that it was concealed behind a false wall in a kids bedroom.
I'm sure he had a lot invested in his plan and execution of the safe installation all to have someone spill the beans to the wrong people.
You do realize that UL only tests the door for a TL rating, yes?
Attack is against door and body for Class TL-30X6 rating, door for TL 30
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=0687.html
Regardless, The walls of the safe to be TL 30 rates are very specific and robust.
I've personally seen a TL-30 fire safe opened by a former professional burglar with a hammer, set of chisels, and a sledgehammer in about 10 minutes. He attacked it from the side, ignoring the door entirely.
It was a Gibraltar.
Sorry, I'd have to see that with my own two eyes to ever believe such a claim.
I understand what you are saying, but 99% of consumers and the small percentage of gun owners that even own a "safe" do not know the differance between an RSC (Residential Security Container) and a real "safe".
Right, that's why education is a must, just like anything else. My short write up:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=51518&highlight=AMSEC
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