View Full Version : Kahr 9mm pistols
Hey Gents-
I am strongly considering picking up a new PM9 and was looking for a bit of "fresh" feedback on how these are running. From my exhaustive WWW searches (including M4 searches), it seems that as of late the 9mm Kahrs are getting some really good reviews on reliabilty out of the box. Seems that they may have all the kinks worked out?
Anyone running one of these, if so how many rounds do you have through it? Any issues or feedback?
Thanks in advance-
Drew
I bought a steel K9 a few years back, probbaly have 2K thru it, NO malfunctions and you can hit an 8" plate at 50 yards all day long. I even qualified with it once! I have a MK9 I bought a few months back, NO issues with it.
My wife likes the K9 so much I'm purchasing a P9 next month for her !
Those little guns made that co so profitable they bought out Auto ord!! And remember they are the issued back-up for NYPD!!
lethal dose
02-22-12, 22:04
I have nothing but good things to say about my polymer Kahr pistols.
I have nothing but good things to say about my polymer Kahr pistols.
Do you have a PM9 specifically? If so how many rounds through it? I am really wondering about long term durability. I shoot quite a bit and while I understand that this isnt necessarily a range gun, I want to be able to train with it enough to stay confident and competent with it.
lethal dose
02-22-12, 22:15
Cw9 and cw45. Not sure in round count... but LOTS. They've held up very well.
I've been wondering about the durability and reliability of the Kahr's as well.
PM9 is my EDC, only issue I've ever had is when you try and drop the slide by sling-shotting, it will often jam. Using the slide lock/release it never jams.
There is even that specific recommendation in the manual.
You usually need to run a few hundred rounds down range to break them in, they're pretty tight from the factory. Trigger gets better with use.
Mine is a few years old, FYI.
Just picked up a used NYPD K9 last week, i've only run a few mags thru it but no issues.
savagesteel
02-22-12, 22:47
I bought a PM9 last year and found it to be finicky with some hollow points and Federal ball ammo. I only shot 400 rounds through it before trading it in on a Glock 19. I think it would have been a decent carry pistol if I had managed to find the ammo it liked, but I'm a Glock guy and have been spoiled to the way they eat just about any ammo you put in them. I've heard good things about the newer Kahr CM9 and have been thinking about picking one up and giving it another go.
Buddy of mine picked up a CM9, i picked up a CW9. No issues to report at all but we have very low round counts on them.
His has i believe 300 rounds on it including a mix of various hollow points.
Mine (the CW9) has 130 rounds of ball on it and 15 rounds of winchester ranger T 127 grain +P+.
Not a single issue, including no problems sling shotting the slide.
I am VERY impressed. Both guns are VERY shootable with darned smooth DOA triggers.
I will say that for my CW9, i racked the crap out of the slide prior to actually shooting it as i found the gun to be very "tight" from the factory. I also found grease to be very beneficial to smoothing out the action instead of simply using oil.
I say buy, there is literally no reason not to. The worst case scenario is you end up with a lemon that you send back to Kahr and tell them to get bent and you want a refund.
And remember they are the issued back-up for NYPD!!
Just to clarify, they were not issue. They were authorized from a list of various off-duties from NYPD. A few years back they were no longer allowed but grandfathered to those who had them at the time. Just recently, a couple months ago, they were completely taken off the list, not even grandfathered anymore. Main reason, triggers were too "light" per NYPD specs, 11-12lbs. minimum.
I talked to some Kahr reps at last years NRA meeting in Pittsburgh. They wanted the contract back with NYPD but their insistense on such a ridiculously heavy pull just could not be engineered into the design without reliability issues creeping up.
Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate it!
Now I need to decide on a PM9 or a P9. I cant pocket carry anything larger than an LCP so this would be a "belt gun". Any feedback between those 2 frame sizes?
They are slick little pistols...
-Drew
Tango Charlie145
02-23-12, 06:20
I am reposting this from back in December. My friend is still shooting this little gun quite often and has had NO malfunctions so far. We did come across a PM9, black slide and night sights for $525 and another one of our shooting group bought it. And, as with the CM9, NO malfunctions whatsoever. We have been very impressed with the way these handguns have performed and how accurate they are. Only wish the CM9 came in black but its not that big of a deal for a pocket pistol.
Now to the re-post:
Just wanted to give a little review of my buddies new Kahr CM9 he purchased on friday. We have been looking at small, pocket size 9mm handguns ro replace his current pocket carry Ruger LCP.
Fit anf finish were as to be expected. It came with 1 flush magazine.
The trigger pull was EXCEPTIONAL. It was a Kahr trigger mind you, but it was smooth, and I do mean smooth. We could not believe how good a trigger it is. It took about 3 rounds to get used to the take-up as we both shoot Glocks. Reset was a little different than a Glock, which is to be expected. But for what this little gun is intended for, it is acceptable.
Function was exceptional. We fired 150 rounds of mixed 9mm including old ammo in 115, 124, and 147 grains. Also shot some Rem 124 +p and it was more managageable than the standard pressure in the LCP. If you have shot an LCP, I am refering to the "jarring' recoil signature. The CM 9 recoil was very soft. We also shot some 115 gr Win Silvertips (blast from the past) and they functioned flawlessly. All in all, 0 malfunctions.
Accuracy was very good. He was shooting a steady fire, not slow, group from 7 yards that completely removved the X from a B27 target. POA and POI was the same.
For what this handgun is intended for, I would highly reccomend it. The size a .380, the punch of a 9mm.
Now that he has one and I have got to shoot it, it will go on my list of guns to have. Hope this helps any of you considering purchasing the CM 9
Strength and Honor!
TC
For belt carry I would definitely get the larger gun. It is easier to grip and shoot.
Had a CM9 for a couple months. I put around 700+ through it with not a single problem. The trigger was just too different for me from my Glocks so I ended up selling it and getting a Walther PPS which has a more Glock like trigger.
Had a CM9 for a couple months. I put around 700+ through it with not a single problem. The trigger was just too different for me from my Glocks so I ended up selling it and getting a Walther PPS which has a more Glock like trigger.
ditto, i carried a MK9 for a year and the trigger is exactly why i got rid of it. its extremely smooth, but none of my other guns have that kind of trigger so i sold it.
i may look into a PPS.
Hey Gents-
I am strongly considering picking up a new PM9 and was looking for a bit of "fresh" feedback on how these are running. From my exhaustive WWW searches (including M4 searches), it seems that as of late the 9mm Kahrs are getting some really good reviews on reliabilty out of the box. Seems that they may have all the kinks worked out?
Anyone running one of these, if so how many rounds do you have through it? Any issues or feedback?
Thanks in advance-
Drew
I have had 3 Kahr's and I can't recommend them enough. My experiences were 100% all good. Mine however were all steel versions, which I prefer. I sold two over the years, kept the K40. The k40 is a worth every $ to me.
I have had 3 Kahr's and I can't recommend them enough. My experiences were 100% all good. Mine however were all steel versions, which I prefer. I sold two over the years, kept the K40. The k40 is a worth every $ to me.
Agreed. I've got a K98 Elite 40 that I've had for over a decade and it runs great. I've only ever had one issue with it and Kahr fixed it promptly. The spring on the mag release was a bit weak and would drop magazines when fired so they sent me a new spring and release button. A major issue for a carry gun, but the new parts fixed it since then. Great little gun for when a bigger gun isn't practical to carry.
Of all the Kahrs I've shot, the steel ones seem to have fewer issues.
Since I am the OP, I guess I can drift my own thread a bit!
Anyone have any direct experience with a PPS and PM9 in 9mm?
Pros cons?
I dont know jack about the PPS but it seems to get good reviews. Is it vetted, kinks worked out, ect...?
Any quirks with the PPS regarding chambering, extended mags not working, pinching, hows the trigger, durability, ect...
I noticed that the Kahrs seem to handle and "point" about the same as my Glocks, trigger is different for sure but smooooooooooth.
How would those of you with experience with the PPS and Glock compare the handeling of the PPS. I understand the trigger is more Glock like on the PPS as well.
-Drew
I have a PM9 and my round count is at 1700+. I had just 4 malfs when I first got it, because I failed to read the manual which says you need to use the slide lock lever to drop the slide rather than slingshotting it. Some call this a "flaw" because they expect slingshotting to work on every semiauto. Others call it "by design." Call it whatever you want, but if you want a PM9, you have to use the slide lock lever. :-) I'd prefer the slingshot action to work, but it's a quirk I can live with.
Since then the PM9 has had not a single FTF in over 1500 rounds. I have used several types of Win/Fed/Other factory ammo, FMJ and hollowpoints, without issues. Trigger is a smooth consistent DA with a nice reset that makes it easy to be accurate. Based on my sample of one, I feel positive about the PM9 and would get another if I needed one. It is an outstanding small/slim single-stack 9mm, the best in the market of its type and price range, IMO.
OP asked about PM9 vs P9. Everyone is different, you should try shooting both if you can. Obviously the P9 is a little easier to get a grip on. Here's why I went with the PM9: I wanted a slim/light CCW for special carry situations when I cannot conveniently carry my ordinary CCW (an M&P9). For instance: running, biking, working out at the club, when I have to wear dress clothes, or in 'deep concealment' situations where "being made" with a CCW would be extremely awkward or cause problems.
With that purpose in mind, the PM9 was better for me because it's a bit more compact than the P9. And even though my hands are slightly larger than average, I can still get an adequate grip on the PM9 and fire it accurately. Also, remember that you can get the 7rd mags with the PM9, and these give you a grip extender which makes the PM9 easier to grip and still nearly as easy to conceal. I usually carry it this way, with the 7rd mags.
Drew,
Given how slim the gun is, you will have no problems concealing either weapon whether you choose the PM9 or the P9.
Having said that, my personal bias lends itself to the P9. I never pocket carry and having a full sized grip for manipulations of the firearm and shootability of the firearm is paramount.
I do NOT like shooting the PM9 one handed as it is hard to recover your sights since the gun wants to flip like a mother. There is no counteracting stabilizing force via your pinky on the grip since it is hanging in space.
With the CW9/P9 sized frames you've got that pinky acting as a stabilizer which seriously helps control the firearm one handed, two handed or even weak handed.
The added grip length shouldnt be a problem provided you choose the right holster and like i said originally, the overall slimness of the firearm is an absolute DREAM for IWB carry.
Littlelebowski
02-23-12, 11:26
Since I am the OP, I guess I can drift my own thread a bit!
Anyone have any direct experience with a PPS and PM9 in 9mm?
Pros cons?
I dont know jack about the PPS but it seems to get good reviews. Is it vetted, kinks worked out, ect...?
Any quirks with the PPS regarding chambering, extended mags not working, pinching, hows the trigger, durability, ect...
I noticed that the Kahrs seem to handle and "point" about the same as my Glocks, trigger is different for sure but smooooooooooth.
How would those of you with experience with the PPS and Glock compare the handeling of the PPS. I understand the trigger is more Glock like on the PPS as well.
-Drew
I've got a writeup on my blog somewhere but I prefer the PPS by far. It's like a thinner Glock 26 with a better trigger.
I bought my PM9 in April 2011 and have had no issues with it at at. It is a fantastic CCW and I almost forget I have it with me after a few minutes. In the warmer months, I wear snug fitting tshirts and cargo shorts and it is vertiually unnoticable. I haven't put very many rounds through it, maybe 150, with no malfunctions of any kind. I used WWB and cheap Federal ammo and it chewed it right up. The trigger takes some getting use to for certain. It has a very, very long pull but a crisp break. It is very different compared to my G26, M&P or Sig trigger. Here are a few pics of it next to the G26 for size comparison. I highly recommend it and have had a very positive experience owning it.
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/honkonthree/2012-02-23_10-59-21_708.jpg
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/honkonthree/2012-02-23_11-00-02_284.jpg
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/honkonthree/2012-02-23_11-02-02_224.jpg
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/honkonthree/2012-02-23_11-03-57_944.jpg
I did a write up on my T-9 awhile ago here:
Kahr T-9 review (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58984&highlight=kahr)
I also just posted the following over on LF.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/Kahrtest4.gif
My purpose for this thread will be to discuss some of the things I have learned about the Kahr’s during that time, and hopefully for some actual experts to contribute knowledge to discussing the use, maintaince and mods to Kahr Pistols. I’m not going to dazzle you with my shooting expertise or technical knowledge. I just hope to not embarrass myself. I live in a VERY low crime area in the country and live a very quite life.
I also live in the great state of New York. This means I know that better/differant tools are availible. But due to our mag restictions I can only have 10 round, or old rebuilt mags. I am chosing to use a single stack 9mm, because it fits my enviroment, not because its the best tool for all jobs. Nor do I have any illusions the pistols I'll discuss below are the best at anything. I'll just try to be objective.
One note. A lot has been made out of the NYPD disapproving the K-9’s. It seems from the recent coverage that this is because Kahr could not make their trigger over come stupid. NYPD apparently could not make the long DA trigger pull of around 7 lbs officer proof. NYPD wanted them to increase the trigger pull to 12 lbs and Kahr couldn’t/wouldn’t do it.
The Kahr P-9:
This was my first Kahr purchased in 1999 while working at West Point. I still have it and have carried it since then as a CCW pistol. I traveled to all the local gun shops, looked at the various pistols the Cadets on the Combat Weapons team were shooting and had a Kimber 1911 purchased from their LE Sales Rep at the time, Joe S. I also had a W. German P220 and, a P228 (miss that pistol). So what I was looking for was a back up/CCW size weapon.
I had heard of Kahr and looked at them in various shops, but that was about it. I compared it to the Walther PPK, the SIG 238, baby Glocks, ect, but I kept coming back to the balance of features in the P-9. It was the lightest, the same size as the PPK basically, was 9mm, felt good in my hand and only cost me a little over $500.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P9-2.jpg
The pistol has a few thousand rounds through it. I never kept a log on it, but it was shot every range session for years with a mix of ball ammo of all types and carry ammo, maybe 4,000 rounds. Initially I did two modifications done Heinie Straight Eight sights installed and the slide release dehorned. Some where along the way I replaced the guide rod with a Harrts recoil reducer. Just recently I had the slide melted by Accurate Iron. Then I decided to have the slide melonited by Bowie Tactical.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P9-3.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P9-4.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P9-1.jpg
The modification to the slide release is just about a mandatory initial upgrade to the stock Kahr. The stock release has a sharp edge and depending on your grip can bugger up your thumb. You can do the work yourself with a dremel tool or have it done at various shops for change. On the slide release/lock. Kahr recommends that you only use the slide release to charge the pistol. They do not recommend using the over hand or sling shot methods to load. What I have found with all of my pistols is that they all will work with either the over hand or slide release.
Reliability:
I found my P-9 reliable out of the box. I can’t think of a malfunction out of it in the 12 years I’ve owned it(not a lot of rounds by member standards I know). Until last year I had not changed any parts, other than the sights, or done anything other than wipe it down after a range session. Last year I changed the recoil spring out after learning Kahr recommends that you change the spring every thousand rounds. More on this later.
Shooting:
I have found the P-9 to be very comfortable and controllable to shoot. The grip is long enough to provide positive grip, and the controls are all accessible. Quirks? The trigger is no Glock with short reset. The trigger is like a DA revolver, long, but smooth. I have seen shooters short stroke the trigger attempting to shoot it like a Glock. You have to let the trigger all the way out and then pull it again. That said I still find that I’m fairly fast with the Kahr trigger design up close. Shooting it longer ranges and you need to tune yourself in more to manage the trigger.
Carry comments:
For holsters I have used Mitch Rosen ARG, Bulman THR, Galco and Blade-Tech holsters. I also use a Uncle Mikes pocket holster for it. Primary carry is in the ARG with some time in the pocket holster or the THR. One of the reasons I prefer the P-9 over the PM-9 is that it has a real grip and is pretty easy to get a good firing grip on no matter the holster I use. The pocket holster only works for me out of large jacket pockets. With both the ARG and the THR I can carry the P-9 in close proximity to people everyday in all attire with out being outed. This even around huggers, or areas were carry is frowned upon.
Overall impression:
The P-9 continues to be my favorite Kahr pistol.
The PM-9:
I purchased this to see what the fuss was about, and because it was also around $500 used. On paper it had a lot going for it, but I could never warm up to it and its quirks. This is actually the pistol that got me into custom pistols because I wanted to like it. By the time I had sold it I had put maybe 1,000 rounds through it and maybe $2-300 in modifications dome to it
Like I said the pistol worked, but I didn’t like it. I put XO big dot sights on it. They were ok, but I preferred the Heinies on my P-9. After a while I kept hearing about the work Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron was doing on Kahrs. I contacted him and eventual I received the PM-9 back with a slide melt and textured grip.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p1.gif
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p2.gif
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p5.gif
Reliability:
It’s only mechanical fault initially was it ejected rounds into my bean. I’m cross dominate and shoot left eyed, right handed and the casings would bounce off my head most of the time. I sent it into Kahr and they tuned the ejector and sent it back. No other issues were ever encountered.
Shooting:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p8.gif
One of my complaints with the PM-9 is the grip. It is small in diameter and short. I’m pretty sure this is also one of the reasons you hear so many issues with the PM line. The pistol is operating in a slim margin and if there is a fault with your grip or the pistol it will bring out malfunctions that you won’t see on larger pistols. I had Mike stipple the grip and even the mag extension. At the end of the day I was never happy with my performance accuracy and time wise shooting the pistol due to the small grip. To get the best control I preferred to shoot it with the extension, but the heel was still unsupported.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p9.gif
Carry Comments:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p7.gif
I played around with different carry methods for the PM-9 and ended up carrying it on the belt in the Bulman THR. I found it very comfortable to carry in the THR and combined with the light weight you could forget it was there. For best draw I carried it with the extension, for best concealment with the standard mag. The THR was a compromise of the based on the draw. As a CCW I’m carrying usually with only a primary. For my build I couldn’t pocket carry except in a jacket, and I couldn’t get a good firing grip on the draw from a IWB holster. If I used the Extension the pistol was the same size as the P-9 I gained nothing over carrying the P-9.
PM-9 over a P-9
http://pro-patria.us/kahr4.jpg
Over all impression:
After having my first custom pistol made out of it I sold the PM-9 off. For my situation it brought nothing to the table. The PM line can be a reliable pistol, but seems to also the greatest number of reported issues. Several memebers here swear by theirs, a few swear at the ones they have seen.
The Kahr T-9:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/KahrT-9teas2.gif
I really like this pistol, but it had a rough start. I picked it up as old stock off GB. Paid $525 for it. From researching Kahr has only made about 1,100 of these pistols since 2000 so they are fairly uncommon to come across. I bought it on a whim and put in the safe were it remained for some time. I put a few rounds through it, but nothing serious. It had a couple of issues with the slide locking back for no apparent reason, but was a “fun gun” which I didn’t really pay attention to.
After my flop with the PM-9 I decided to look at the T-9 again as a training gun in 9mm, and maybe a carry pistol as it’s a nice size. To this end I ordered a very modest package fro C&S to look at the faults I had with it. Dehorn package, install Novak 3 dot night sights(Heinie was not making sights for Kahrs at the time), open the mag well and relieve the grip for the mag release.
The work on the mag release was done because I had a hard time with the release. The grip is still small and the grip protects the release enough that I had a bad angle for reaching the release.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/Kahrrelease.gif
My second T-9 has a more aggressive relief done by Accurate Iron:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/T-9gripmod.jpg
I got it back eventually and took it out to the range, where I promptly started getting pissed. I still had the random issues with the slide locking back mid mag. I checked my grip, as a known “fault” of the Kahrs is operating the slide release with your thumb due to poor grip. Not the issue, I tried to trace it to the mags, again no luck. Eventually after talking to Kahr and C&S I figured out the problem on my own. On the Kahr line the slide release it tensioned with a spring which is captured under a screw. On my pistol the screw that held the spring was loose. The result was the slide release was basically floating in the pistol and would pop up under recoil and lock the slide back.
Some locktite and a torx driver solved the problem. I put a few hundred rounds down range and then put it away. That is until I got a burr under my saddle to try the Todd G 2,000 round challenge.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/KahrT-9test1.gif
Nothing broke. 1 failure to extract leaving the round half way out the chamber sitting on top of a empty mag. 1 Stovepipe. 6 failures to feed on the reload. Likely the failures to feed were user induced. Another know area of concern with the Kahr is the first round in a mag not being properly aligned causing a failure to feed. Bottom line carry Kahr mags in a good mag pouch and make sure they are properly loaded.
I did find out that Kahr recommends replacing the recoil spring every 1,000 rounds. Seems like a short life for the springs, but maybe replacing the spring at 1,000 would have dropped all six of the failures to feed. I finished the test with at least 3,000 rounds through the pistol.
Pistol: Kahr T-9
Caliber: 9x19mm
Ammunition: 800 124 gr DAG Surplus, 300 115 gr. CCI Blazer, 900 115 gr. Speer Lawman
Dates of testing: 26-July-10 to 26-Sept-10 Total rounds fired: 2,000
I shot a pretty aggressive schedule on my range days firing several hundred rounds a session on various drills. A guy who lives near the range would usually show up about half way through a session because he would recognize the controlled pair tempo. A few of the failures to feed were from mags he loaded, but I didn’t check.
Since then I have put about another 1,000 round through this pistol and had it off at C&S for some more work. I had them polish the feed ramp, chamber, tune the extractor and stipple the front strap.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/C-Slogo.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/C-Sstipple.jpg
I also attended a local pistol class with it firing just over 400 rounds during the day of the class, with no issues. One of the instructors tried to correct my grip early on to have me place the heel of my none firing hand in the pocket on the grip between the heel of my palm and my finger tips. Once I showed him there is no pocket due to the small grip he let me drive on. The pistol was accurate and I did well with it during the class.
We did do one stage were several pistols were staged with malfunctions by the instructors. The pistols were lined up on the table and you had to clear and shoot each of the pistols. The T-9 was the first pistol all the students shot, and its small size and tight controls frustrated a couple of them.
Reliability:
I had two issues. 1. The slide stop was initially loose causing issues with slide lock. 2. I shot the pistol past the recommended replacement interval for the recoil spring. This may or may not have been the cause of the failures to feed. Other factors were very dirty gun shot at a high tempo. Shooting 2,000 rounds without cleaning or lubing after you start is not the type of use Kahrs are known for. Not an excuse, just would be interested in a broader experience pool.
I did find that shooting high round count days I would get a rub at the base of my thumb from a friction point to the grips/frame. Wish I could get an after market grip.
Sitting at 1250 it's nice and dirty
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New spring bottom, old spring top.
]http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/T9...l/T9spring.gif
Shooting Comments:
I’ve ditched the original Novaks and now have Heinies again
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/T-9Heinie2.jpg
The T-9 is great to shoot and very controllable due to the all steel construction. I prefer the Heinies and am much more comfortable with them than the Novaks, it’s just preference, I’m not an expert. The modifications to the grip allowed me to access the mag release better, but with the original C&S mod I found it hard to release with gloves on without shifting my grip. I have not done any extensive shooting with the second T-9 since it returned from Accurate Iron.
Carry Comments:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/kahrT9.gif
I carry the T-9 in a Mitch Rosen ARG. It’s very comfortable to carry, but noticeably heavier than the P-9. Off side I have a Rosen single mag pouch with a Surefire G2. Fro training I use the Bladetech pictured above.
Over all Impressions:
If the reliability of the last 1,000 rounds continues I’ll be very happy with the T-9. The steel construction, wood grips and leather holster give it the air of a modern classic. Perhaps that’s an over statement, but it’s a steel 9mm single stack that is very shoot able, can be had for less than $600 and is about the size of a 1911 commander.
The Kahr TP-45:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45mr1.gif
Who doesn’t want a commander sized .45? When Kahr made the TP-45 available I had to have one. Of course I would prefer a steel T-45, but Kahr hasn’t pulled the trigger on that ideal yet. So after watching GB for awhile I found this old stock TP-45 for around $500 and snapped it up.
It came in as a standard silver and black Kahr. I added a Raven Phantom holster and started shooting it and carrying as a bigger alternative to my other Kahrs.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45Raven.gif
My initial trip to the range was a spur of the moment trip, and on arriving I found no lube in the range bag…… I still loaded up and began shooting. During the range session I had misc malfunctions I attributed to either the Kahr break in or to lack of lube. The next range session I insured that I had lube and headed off to the range. No malfunctions were experienced during that or later range trips. To date I have around 1,000 rounds through this pistol and will take my next local class with it(M&P .45 in over watch).
Haven been bitten by the custom bug, this one went through a couple of trips down range, first to Accurate Iron and then Bowie Tactical.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP-45-2.gif
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45-1.jpg
Mike melt job on the slide is excellent and also adds a great look to the pistol, and Davids refinish is also to notch. The refinish is more a look thing, but I do like it.
The TP-45 is 7+1, but the mags are the same size as a Gov 1911. The profile is close enough that 1911 mags will fit and some are modifying 1911 mags to work in the Kahr .45 line. I’m looking to figure out how to use 8+1 1911 mags, or mod the followers to work in the Kahr Mag.
I had looked into texturing the grip, but I found during a long range session this little pistol is hard on soft ass office hands like mine. The checkering on the front strap is very sharp and would get uncomfortable after 200 rounds. The solution I decided on was to try out Agrip, by Brooks Tactical. Basically it’s a decal grip which wraps around the frame. It softens the edges on the front and back strap and can be carried against the skin comfortably. So far it is working as advertised and is very comfortable to shoot with.
Will need to add some photos.
Reliability: I few issues in the first 200 rounds from a un lubed pistol. Only a 1,000ish down range total, so I’ll keep it in the unproven league.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45-2.jpg
Shooting Comments:
The recoil is there. It’s not bad, but I would not want to shoot a 2,000 round course with Super Dave using this either. The Agrip has made it more comfortable. The size increase going up to the .45 frame pushed out some of the controls from the smaller 9mm line and opened up a pocket for the heel of my support hand.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45-4.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45-5.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45-6.jpg
Carry Comments:
I carry the TP-45 IWB in the Mitch Rosen ARG, off side is one mag and a G2. For training I use the Phantom. The combination is comfortable for all day carry and remains very concealable.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45mr3.gif
Overall Impression:
These can be found on GB for as low as $450 now. I believe part of their problem is they are to for the market looking at Kahr. The two smaller sized Kahr .45s are hot sellers, but the TP-45 is not. If I want to carry a .45 right now, I carry this with great comfort. As I get more rounds through it I will feel better about it.
Damn! Thanks for all the feedback, really appreciated.
I just got back from one of the "big box" gun shops. I went there only b/c they had a PM9, P9, and a PPS in stock for me to check out.
My trip was very weird...
The P9 had something wrong with the trigger. It was NIB, but when I dry fired it, the trigger ran all the way back and actually bottomed out, then a fraction of a second later the striker would break. The clerk agreed, that one was on its way back to Kahr for repair. I will say that aside from that oddity, the P9 felt PERFECT in my hand, loved it.
I then looked at a CW40 as it will have the same dimensions as the P9. The guy went to show me how to break it down, and the damn slide lock would not move. These two bubbas even got a brass punch and a mallet and it still refused to slide out. Witness marks were aligned. Bizarre.
The PM9 was great, trigger was what it should have been, small, lightweight. Sweet. Pinky had no home, but I knew that going in.
Finally the PPS. First off, my digits would not reach that mag release. Not a thumb or index finger. Im not the biggest dude, 5-7 if I stretch really hard in the morning :D
I could reach it with my middle finger, but it was really odd feeling. Maybe thats just someting I would have to train to adjust to. I had heard so much about this PPS having a Glock like trigger, and being an admitted 9mm Glock homo, I was excited. I tried it, and then was disapointed. The first break was ok, but when I cycled the slide to check out the reset it got weird. As I released the trigger to get to the reset, it would actually hang up for a milisecond. My finger would out run it every time, almost like a "pause". Maybe its a break in issue and/or lack of lube issue somewhere in there but it was disheartining. Overall, the thing seemed very well laid out, just a weird trigger.
After all of this, I really think I am going to go for a new P9. It will recieve a very comprehensive once over prior to accepting it.
-Drew
DMR-
Thanks for all the effort and time you put into those replys!!!
You have some SWEET looking Kahr's there...
-Drew
I do NOT like shooting the PM9 one handed as it is hard to recover your sights since the gun wants to flip like a mother. There is no counteracting stabilizing force via your pinky on the grip since it is hanging in space.
I have better luck controlling my PM9 when I use the 7rd mags with the grip extender.
I have better luck controlling my PM9 when I use the 7rd mags with the grip extender.
The only problem with that is that if you carry with the 7 rounder with the extension, you're essentially making the gun the same size as the CW9.
This is why i dont like extenders. They make the guns more pleasurable to shoot but they compromise concealability and manipulation of the actual firearm during reloads and malfunction clearance.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
02-23-12, 18:53
Just to clarify, they were not issue. They were authorized from a list of various off-duties from NYPD. A few years back they were no longer allowed but grandfathered to those who had them at the time. Just recently, a couple months ago, they were completely taken off the list, not even grandfathered anymore. Main reason, triggers were too "light" per NYPD specs, 11-12lbs. minimum.
I talked to some Kahr reps at last years NRA meeting in Pittsburgh. They wanted the contract back with NYPD but their insistense on such a ridiculously heavy pull just could not be engineered into the design without reliability issues creeping up.
I carried a stainless k9 as my backup for a couple of years and always enjoyed shooting it. The only issue I had was the damn grip screws rusting from sweat. The issue with them was not exactly that the trigger pulls were too light. As officers rotated through quals beginning around early 2006, kahr armorers were brought down from the factory to completely inspect and refurbish each k9 still carried as an off-duty. Apparently as time passed, the trigger pull would lighten and the folks in charge at the range didn't like this, or so they told us. No new k9s were authorized thereafter and I was lucky enough to have sold mine to pick up a g26 to have mag compatibility with my g19. Guys started selling theirs soon after that for fear that something was wrong with the gun.
packinaglock
02-23-12, 19:10
I've had my PM9 for a few years now and the only time I had a few FTE was when I installed a pinkie extension. I took it back off and never had another issue. Even break in was flawless, I'm guessing I've got about 1000 rounds through mine.
I carry a K9 off duty, love it. Did have an issue with an out of spect extractor but Kahrt took care of it no questions asked. It runs great and is a blast to carry and shoot. Very comfortable IWB. Also had a P9 covert back in the day. It was also very reliable, great pistol.
I read this thread with interest. I’m considering getting a CM9 or a CW9 and found everyone’s observations informative. And my thanks to svtpwnz for the comparison pictures between the PM9 and the G-26. I just can’t seem to make up my mind on which one. I really like the feel of the larger gun but keep wondering of it will conceal as well as the smaller. Being tall with a slender build can sometime pose a challenge for such things.
I know it's not intended as a duty pistol, but can say, the longer barreled TP ot T series Kahrs be used in such a capacity? I have tiny hands and the Kahr is the only gun I have felt truly in control of. I am especially encouraged by the previous 2000 round challenge, but am still somewhat hesitant about using a Kahr as a go-to pistol not only for defensive use but also combat/duty use like an M&P.
Kinda late coming to this thread and I do not have much to add.
I have a PM9 and a TP45.
Regards the PM9: Before first firing take it down, de-burr it, and lube (I prefer TW25). Then follow the factory recommendation of a MINIMUM 200 round break-in. Also replace springs as recommended. I am about to try a 20.5# recoil spring vs. the standard 18#; will try to post on that afterward. I carry my PM9 most often in a Galco Ankle Glove. This is my solution for hot weather business casual when I need to have my shirt tucked.
Under the heading fine tuning, the magazine follower for this single stack 9mm is a bit strange. The top has a "hump" in it. Some folks post on the Kahr forum that modifying the follower by sanding down the "hump" profile of the follower to a more flat profile improves feeding. I have done this and have a few hundred rounds afterward. My personal opinion is that it does improve feeding & function. It seems to provide a more consistent angle of feed to the cartridges when the magazine is full. I think the benefit of this might be when the weapon is dirty, light on lube, or with other friction related situations.
The TP45 is a joy. I also used the Agrip wrap and really like this product. My TP45 has been completely reliable since the first round. It has become my "most carried" CCW using the Rosen Express Line pancake holster and a Comp-Tec Minataur to which I adapted the kydex shell originality for a SIG 220 with a heat gun.
In closing, the only other thing I would add is this action is most like a revolver double action (only smoother than just about any revolver I have tried). YMMV but a continuous trigger manipulation, as opposed to staging the break, seems to work better for me.
In closing, the only other thing I would add is this action is most like a revolver double action (only smoother than just about any revolver I have tried). YMMV but a continuous trigger manipulation, as opposed to staging the break, seems to work better for me.
Nice. The that's how my CW9s trigger feels. Only complaint it that 7 round mags don't sit right and will jam if you ever slingshot the slide. Trigger is super smooth tho.
Beat Trash
02-24-12, 10:09
I've owned a PM9 since 2005. Though many post of issues with this gun, my sample of one has never been an issue.
I bought this gun specifically to be used as a pocket gun. But as you are not going to pocket carry yours, this is not an issue for you.
If not going to be pocket carried, then I'd definitely go with the P9 vs. the PM9.
I also own a Glock 26 and a PPS. My PPS' trigger was shitty when new. I dry fired it a bit, no help. I put 300 rounds through it, then flushed out the gun in a parts washer and hit it with an air compressor afterwards. This helped more than I would have expected.
The PPS weighs about the same as the Glock 26. Both weigh more than the PM9 or the P9 would.
If the P9 fits your hand well and you like the trigger, then I'd go with it.
I'm seriously thinking of picking up a P9 myself.
The only problem with that is that if you carry with the 7 rounder with the extension, you're essentially making the gun the same size as the CW9.
This is why i dont like extenders. They make the guns more pleasurable to shoot but they compromise concealability and manipulation of the actual firearm during reloads and malfunction clearance.
The way I carry my PM9, the extension has no impact on concealment for me, and I've not observed the extender causing any compromise of my reloads. Not trying to push anybody to use the extender, of course, if it doesn't work for them. :-) Just saying it is ONE way to keep the slim, light advantages of the PM9, while getting better control + 1 more round. And I haven't seen any real issues (yet) with extended mag on my sample of one.
I read this thread with interest. I’m considering getting a CM9 or a CW9 and found everyone’s observations informative. And my thanks to svtpwnz for the comparison pictures between the PM9 and the G-26. I just can’t seem to make up my mind on which one. I really like the feel of the larger gun but keep wondering of it will conceal as well as the smaller. Being tall with a slender build can sometime pose a challenge for such things.
I would highly suggest renting them and putting a few rounds through them before purchasing. The PM9 trigger really takes some getting use to. At a recent range session, I let a guy at the lane next to me try it and he couldn't shoot it for shit and didn't like it at all. I carry my G26 more than any of the other pistols I have but in summer weather, I carry the PM9 alot.
I've owned a PM9 since 2005. Though many post of issues with this gun, my sample of one has never been an issue.
I bought this gun specifically to be used as a pocket gun. But as you are not going to pocket carry yours, this is not an issue for you.
If not going to be pocket carried, then I'd definitely go with the P9 vs. the PM9.
I also own a Glock 26 and a PPS. My PPS' trigger was shitty when new. I dry fired it a bit, no help. I put 300 rounds through it, then flushed out the gun in a parts washer and hit it with an air compressor afterwards. This helped more than I would have expected.
The PPS weighs about the same as the Glock 26. Both weigh more than the PM9 or the P9 would.
If the P9 fits your hand well and you like the trigger, then I'd go with it.
I'm seriously thinking of picking up a P9 myself.
Thats the plan, I think I just sold off one of my older G26's today which will almost pay for the NIB P9! I got to shoot a buddys PM9 today and it was a really nice shooting gun. As i primarily shoot a G26, I was comfortable with the pinky under the mag. That thing disappears on the belt! I may be getting BOTH a PM and P9 before its all over....
-Drew
I have a cm9 with 400 rounds no problems. only thing i noticed was the slide not locking back on the last round. kahr does say these should be given a 200 round break in period. but after 200 no more problems with slide locking. Everyone else i know with a kahr have nothing but good things to say as well.
A little late to this as well but I also have the CW9. The PM was too small for my hands. Really nice gun. in 2 years of almost daily carry and biweekly shooting I havent had any problems with it and rarely clean in. I know Kahr recommends a 200 round break in or something like that. I didnt bother. Just loaded up a few mags of various ammo and went shooting. Handled HP, FMJs, flat nose 147gr, +p....That was my break in period
Lucky Strike
02-25-12, 12:57
I ordered a PPQ and CM9 last week and will be getting them both on Monday.
Excited about the CM9....even though I know you can conceal a fullsize gun if you dress around the gun it just doesn't work for my body type (short and stocky) and I find that I just don't carry as a result other then my j frame.
Thinking the CM9 will be a good fit for my needs and at $400 OTD the price was good. I'm hoping the trigger is similar to my P30 LEM trigger as I shoot that well.
I have a CM9 with 1000 rounds of both fmj and jhp through it with no malfunctions. I find that the sights on the CM9 are much better than on a j-frame and the felt recoil is much less than the j-frame. I highly recommend it.
I ordered a PPQ and CM9 last week and will be getting them both on Monday.
Excited about the CM9....even though I know you can conceal a fullsize gun if you dress around the gun it just doesn't work for my body type (short and stocky) and I find that I just don't carry as a result other then my j frame.
Thinking the CM9 will be a good fit for my needs and at $400 OTD the price was good. I'm hoping the trigger is similar to my P30 LEM trigger as I shoot that well.
Its actually smoother than the P30 LEM triggers. The only downside is that the reset is very long on the Kahr pistols but you can certainly learn to shoot these things accurately and quickly.
I am up to 270 rounds with my CW9 with no issues.
One more quick question as I continue my mental gymnastics on this one....
How does the P9/CW9 compare in "Height" to a Glock 19?
When I carry my G19 I am "fighting" the width (when in T shirts only) and the grip poking out of my cover garmnet due to its length.
With the G26, again its just the width, no issues with grip length.
With a PM9 I am golden on both, but if the P9 is long in the grip I may as well carry my G19???
Thoughts?
Thanks-
drew
The P9 is half an inch shorter than a Glock 19.
Quick follow up... I use and like the Pearce grip extension on my 6 round PM9 mags. I do not find the added length particularly matters when I carry.
I do find the grip extension makes a huge difference in my shooting of the PM9.
This is somewhat analogous to what has been said about the differences in shoot-ability and feel of the longer grip P9.
For holsters on or about the waist, the P9 and PM9 about equal out. But if you have any notion of using an ankle holster, then the PM9 wins hands down.
And I have found the PM9 in an ankle holster a very good hot weather solution and at times my most practical solution.
How many rds do you have down the pipe with the extension? Are they reliable? I've heard that they can choke as the mag can wmove in the mag well a bit.
Drew
Its actually smoother than the P30 LEM triggers. The only downside is that the reset is very long on the Kahr pistols but you can certainly learn to shoot these things accurately and quickly.
I am up to 270 rounds with my CW9 with no issues.
It is a super long reset. Still way more consistentent than any DAO revolver. If you're a j frame shooter, try a kahr! You may find your brain/finger interface is arlready trasined .
Didn't get the dehorned slide stop photo up for some reason.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p4.gif
Here is some discussion of the generations of the methods of retaining the spring with holds down the slide stop.
The first one in the plug which retaines the spring on the 1999 generation P-9. I have never had an issue with this coming loose, but Kahr no longer uses this configuration.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P9spring.jpg
Next is the system on my 2002 generation T-9. The serial number is just over 100. This early model had a flat tip screw holding the spring down.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/T9spring1.jpg
As the desing matured Kahr switched to a torx screw for the screw. This pistol is in the 800 serial number range:
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/T9spring2.jpg
The current generation of Kahrs continue to use the Torx screw, but have added a washer under the screw to give more positive retaintion of the slide stop spring. This is my TP-45.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45spring.jpg
the tip of the spring you see sticking to the rear when properly installed will sit on the shelf in the slide stop. If improperly installed the spring will not be on the shelf and the slide stop be held down. This will allow the slide stop to come up and lock the slide back under reciol at times.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/Springdetail.jpg
The slide stop is engaged by a metal insert in the follower of the magizine, so it is metal to metal.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/stoptomag.jpg
More to follow with the pistol taken down.
"How many rds do you have down the pipe with the extension? Are they reliable? I've heard that they can choke as the mag can wmove in the mag well a bit."
Could not even guess as to number of rounds w/extension (SWAG 1500-2000?), but it is enough trouble free rounds I am comfortable carrying for defense.
I have heard more folks say they had trouble with the seven round magazine in a PM9 than anything else.
Kahr 9mm mags have that weird brokeback follower I mentioned before. Fully loaded, there is a gap between tip of the last/top round and the next following round. The gap increases with the number of rounds in the mag, and remember the 9mm is a tapered round. And the gap is such the round can rock and nosedive. Flattening the follower by judicious sanding reduces the gap and supports the rounds better.
And recoil springs are critical in my opinion. Cannot say that enough. I believe I can start telling a difference after 1000-1200 rounds. A recoil spring is relatively cheap if you buy from Woffe direct (and Wolffe is the spring OEM). That extra bit of push from a fresh recoil spring is important in Kahrs, with their elegant and compact design.
Hey Gents-
I am strongly considering picking up a new PM9 and was looking for a bit of "fresh" feedback on how these are running. From my exhaustive WWW searches (including M4 searches), it seems that as of late the 9mm Kahrs are getting some really good reviews on reliabilty out of the box. Seems that they may have all the kinks worked out?
Anyone running one of these, if so how many rounds do you have through it? Any issues or feedback?
Thanks in advance-
Drew
I have a PM9, for 4 years, bought it used, has fired every time, trigger better than aluminum J frame, easier to hit with, has not malfunctioned when fired once, no round count however estimate 2-300, most if not all I have shot was Speer 125 grain, some 115 grain +P+ forget the brand, some Speer 147 grain.
Hi Drew,
I finally took my PM9 to the range on Saturday and fired approximately 200 rounds. Rounds were Fiocchi 147 grain FMJ, Federal Champion 115 grain FMJ and some Winchester Ranger 147 grain JHP. In all those round I experienced one issue in which the gun failed to fully return to battery. This was the first one handed shot I took and the slide was just a few millimeters short of fully returning forward. I shot it some more one handed and experienced no more failures.
Now that I think about it I might have had the CT laserguard on when it malfunctioned which I ended up taking off while shooting. The laserguard forces you to use a slightly lower grip on the front strap so maybe that had something to do with it or perhapse it was just that the pistol was barely broken in.
In all I am very satisfied with this pistol. Recoil was not nearly as bad as others made me to believe. However, I did not shoot +P loads. The MK9 I had in the past was also a great shooter.
Hi Drew,
I finally took my PM9 to the range on Saturday and fired approximately 200 rounds. Rounds were Fiocchi 147 grain FMJ, Federal Champion 115 grain FMJ and some Winchester Ranger 147 grain JHP. In all those round I experienced one issue in which the gun failed to fully return to battery. This was the first one handed shot I took and the slide was just a few millimeters short of fully returning forward. I shot it some more one handed and experienced no more failures.
Now that I think about it I might have had the CT laserguard on when it malfunctioned which I ended up taking off while shooting. The laserguard forces you to use a slightly lower grip on the front strap so maybe that had something to do with it or perhapse it was just that the pistol was barely broken in.
In all I am very satisfied with this pistol. Recoil was not nearly as bad as others made me to believe. However, I did not shoot +P loads. The MK9 I had in the past was also a great shooter.
Thank you for the report. Glad to hear your PM ran well for you!
Now that I think about it I might have had the CT laserguard on when it malfunctioned which I ended up taking off while shooting. The laserguard forces you to use a slightly lower grip on the front strap so maybe that had something to do with it or perhapse it was just that the pistol was barely broken in.
I'm glad you shared the info about the laser guard. I considered one, but held off for concern over that very issue. You already don't have a lot of grip real estate on a PM9; being force to "micro-adjust" your grip even further, to me seems like a nonstarter. I ended up concluding that, nice as the laser might be, my odds of using this gun beyond 10 yards or so were pretty low, so I decided to live with night sights and a light.
I'm glad you shared the info about the laser guard. I considered one, but held off for concern over that very issue. You already don't have a lot of grip real estate on a PM9; being force to "micro-adjust" your grip even further, to me seems like a nonstarter. I ended up concluding that, nice as the laser might be, my odds of using this gun beyond 10 yards or so were pretty low, so I decided to live with night sights and a light.
I'm not so sure it was due to the laserguard. I don't think I put more than the recommended amount of "break in" rounds through the gun so that was probably more the reason than the laser. In my opinion, while the laser makes the grip more uncomfortable it still provides enough grip to feel somewhat secure.
I took the laser off after I noticed a significant shift to the right. It doesn't take much force on the housing to shift its point of aim. I didn't want to rely on a dot that could be way off the point of impact if my life or someone else's depended on it.
I also removed it because the gun feels much better without it and I would rather learn the sights before the laser. Plus, being used to a Glock trigger, it was very difficult for me to make hits on or near the dot on a consistent basis with the Kahr trigger. Maybe I will try again sometime with some thin double sided adhesive tape between the frame and laser after I get more accustomed to the gun/trigger. I already have the laser in the equipment exchange so i'm kind of doubtful I will get the chance.
Take care
How does the P9/CW9 compare in "Height" to a Glock 19? With a PM9 I am golden on both, but if the P9 is long in the grip I may as well carry my G19???
drew
Drew, I have 26 and 19, just took home a CM9 last weekend. 220 rd Federal 115 bulk & Golden Saber 124 +p without a hic up. It it now a keeper. I used to edc a PM9 for 2 yrs, sold it coz I didn't trust Kahr but I needed a TRUE sub-compact 9 for summer, size of G26 is a joke (IMHO). Almost took home a LC9 but decided to give Kahr another try. CM9 has the right price point for me, but if $$$$ is not an issue, PM9 with black slide will be the sh8t to go with. CW9 to P9 has a longer grip and slide would be somewhere between 26 and 19, will give a much better grip but I just need a small one for summer.
Size comparo as follow, hope they help:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Pl5q5olnRUM/T0mqaM9rB9I/AAAAAAAAArc/E_n0r_wJBng/s800/cm%2520vs%252026%2520vs%252019%2520a.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B02pHDTi0eE/T0mqaUKSMdI/AAAAAAAAArk/0MDZXwQ4zF0/s800/cm%2520vs%252026%2520vs%252019%2520b.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XTPAEM30DKk/T0mqa6FYbbI/AAAAAAAAAr0/5x7IkPeH0Gk/s800/cm%2520vs%252026%2520vs%252019%2520d.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-o71OZlQ9Pgg/T0mqapzSRNI/AAAAAAAAArs/fYtBG9FLgi4/s800/cm%2520vs%252026%2520vs%252019%2520c.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YI9NQea3hRw/T1AODda1DqI/AAAAAAAAAs0/V3KaYgriLWM/s800/CW9%2520%252B%2520G26%2520in%2520CLP.JPG
mkmckinley
03-01-12, 23:57
Size comparo as follow, hope they help:
[/IMG]
To be fair the Glocks have those rubber things on the grips.
I used to have a P9 about 9 years ago. I chose it over the PM9 because it's much more shootable to me and it's only 1.8 oz heavier and 1/2" larger front to back and top to bottom. I sold it awhile back to focus on the whole Glock Only philosophy for awhile but I might pick one up this summer.
Off topic but are Kahr sights specific to Kahrs or are they compatible with another manufacturer? It seems like I remember them being able to use SIG sights or something like that.
has anyone come up with a mag base plate to replace the metal one that is on the CM mags? the one that leaves such a big gap?..
has anyone come up with a mag base plate to replace the metal one that is on the CM mags? the one that leaves such a big gap?..
Oh yeah .. that fugly gap.
I have just ordered an 8 rounder (K920) for the CM, it has a base plate like those for CW. Plan is to swap them out. The 8 rounder is only to serve as spare anyway.
Look here: http://www.kahr.com/Magazines/Kahr-8-Round-9mm-Magazine-K920.asp
Patch Delta
03-02-12, 08:48
My wife who served 15 years in the Army, researched Kahr when she recieved her CCW in Georgia. She decided on the CW9. It has been flawless, except when she ffirst loaded 4 rounds int the magazine, backwards. Gun works great, so does wife.:dance3:
Wagon-
Thanks for the post and the pics, I appreiate the effort!
UPDATE:
I have purchased a NIB PM9. I worked myself into a deal that I couldnt pass up. $525 out door, base model. Smokin deal!
I have about 270 rds of various JHP and FMJ though the gun and only 2 issues. with the 7 rd mag, I had a nosedive jam, VERY common with this mag and is a known issue. I have since sent it back to Kahr and am getting a new 6rd back as the gun has been FLAWLESS with the 6 rd mag.
I had the slide lock back once durring a rapid fire strong hand only drill and assume i compromised my grip and hit the lock.
Other than that its great! Accurate as hell and EASY to hide...
Thanks again for all the responses!
-Drew
Wagon-
Thanks for the post and the pics, I appreiate the effort!
UPDATE:
I have purchased a NIB PM9. I worked myself into a deal that I couldnt pass up. $525 out door, base model. Smokin deal!
I have about 270 rds of various JHP and FMJ though the gun and only 2 issues. with the 7 rd mag, I had a nosedive jam, VERY common with this mag and is a known issue. I have since sent it back to Kahr and am getting a new 6rd back as the gun has been FLAWLESS with the 6 rd mag.
I had the slide lock back once durring a rapid fire strong hand only drill and assume i compromised my grip and hit the lock.
Other than that its great! Accurate as hell and EASY to hide...
Thanks again for all the responses!
-Drew
that's a great price. local or internet?
If we're talking about the 7rd mags having trouble, is it the same ones that come with the P9's and K9's? Should one bump up to the extended 8 rounders instead?
If we're talking about the 7rd mags having trouble, is it the same ones that come with the P9's and K9's? Should one bump up to the extended 8 rounders instead?
Im no expert on the Kahrs (yet), but here is what I am seeing on the issue...
The PM's can be picky with the supplied 7rd mags with "nosediving" into the bottom of the feedramp. Some do it, some dont. Mine did it once and I bailed on the 7rd mag. I have noticed kind of a pattern in that the PM's that run ok with the 7rd mag wont drop the mag free from the well. My PM drops the mag every time with out my assistance, just hit the release button, as a result I may have to much play in my magwell and hence the jam's.
With the P9 it isnt a problem as the mag is in the well all the way.
Here is where it gets odd, I can run the 8rd mags in my PM9 all day with no issues so far... Not sure if the follower is different?!?
The best way to use the next larger size Kahr mag with you pistol use to use the Grip extension (http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-045PM9-Magazine-Base-7-round.asp).
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/PM9p9.gif
This one is installed on a 7 round P-9 Mag used in my old PM-9. Can also be used on the 8 round mag in the P-9. I used it both ways and never had an issue.
You can buy them this way also, vs adding a part to the mag:
8 Round 9mm Magazine with Grip Extension "K920G" (http://www.kahr.com/Magazines/Kahr-8-Round-9mm-Magazine-with-Grip-Extension-K920G.asp)
7 Round 9mm Magazine W/ Finger Extension"MK720" (http://www.kahr.com/Magazines/Kahr-7-Round-9mm-Magazine-W-Finger-ExtensionMK720.asp)
Check Bud's for better pricing.
I also have this A&G extension I'm tring out. Shown here with a 8 round mag in a P-9.
From Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=310/sku=075-000-015/Product/Fits-KAHR-PM9-P0)
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/p9p1.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P0p3.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/P9p2.jpg
T-9 Grip compare to P-9 with A&G.
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/t9vsP9grip.jpg
I e-mailed Frank Harris along time ago after the Walther came out about making an extension like the A&G for the PM-9 in a 7 and 8 round version. It was something they were looking at, but have not released to date. Don't know if the A&G is related to that or not, but they do't have a +2, PM-9 to 8 round mag version out. At least not out on line. I can't seem to find A&G itself online.
I want a T9. I have always wanted one, but I have no need for one.
However, the need is still there and I found one for sale with 5 mags for 600ish bucks.
Hmm.....
Hrmmm....does anyone know if a leather holster made for a P9 will fit a K9?
My experience is similar to that of the OP on the issue of the seven round magazines.
My PM9 has been through around 1400 rounds, using a variety of FMJ and JHPs. Using the factory six round magazines it has run 100%; I had no issues during the 200 round break-in period, and even if not cleaned as often as some might recommend for a Kahr (after an initial cleaning and lube when new, I lubed it again once but didn't clean it for around 900 rounds), it ran without issue. With the factory seven round extended magazine, however, I had two nosedive jams in the span of 200 rounds (#590 and #772; I had kept a log..). Both times it was while firing from a full mag with one already chambered, and in both instances, it was on either the first or second round in the magazine.
I'm not certain if it's related to the mag follower, or from grip pressure placed on the extention causing the mag to shift, or etc. Regardless, I use solely the flush six round magazines for carry.
Availability of more choices in good aftermarket sights may be one weakness. Heinies are seemingly hard to find at present.
For what it's worth, in hindsight, unless a person is intending to use the Kahr for pocket carry, I think on balance there are advantages to the P9. An extra round in a flush magazine and slightly more to the grip aren't really bad things to have.
To the question asked by another poster, in reference to polymer baseplates available from other Kahr model mags that can be used to eliminate the gap: the polymer baseplates may require sanding/filing down in order to work in a PM9, as they are slightly too tall and can prevent full insertion of the magazine. YMMV.
Had a buddy show up with a new PM9 after Xmas. FTF with extended mag and "short" mag which is crazy for such an expensive pistol.
There are better and more reliable offerings.
Break in period? How many rounds through the gun?
packinaglock
03-03-12, 19:19
Break in period? How many rounds through the gun?
They recomend 200, my pm9 never had a hicup till about 400 rounds and I found that was mag extension related.
Tango Charlie145
07-13-12, 20:03
Just wanted to update anyone who is interested on the CM9. My buddy who got one a few months ago, now has over 700 malfunction free rounds of mixed brand and grain 9mm ammo. During requals this week, he shot a perfect score with this little pocket pistol. Now, he is a good shot, but seeing this gun shoot a goup as good or better than a full size duty pistol is impressive. Qual course is 60 rounds, starts at 25 yards and goes down to 2 yards. It is the standard Louisiana POST course.
Just FYI
Strength and Honor.
TC
Well since this post has surfaced I guess I could toss out my update on my PM9.
I have just shy of 1000 rounds through mine as of the 50 I ran downrange this afternoon.
Other than the 2 issues I discussed earlier in this post, I have had smooth sailing with this lil blaster. Knock on wood....
More than I can say for my Gen4 Glock26....
I will say that I find myself being quite proficient with this pistol out to about 25 feet from a holster/concealment. I wear it in an IWB CTAC and it is very comfy. I am the type where I get dressed in the morning and my empty holster is already on my belt awaiting my pistol. then at night, I safe the weapon and put it away. If I am awake I am armed, the PM9 is fitting that lifestyle for me quite nicely right now.
-Drew
Tango Charlie145
07-13-12, 22:30
Drew-good report. I am very pleased with my buddys CM9 and it is still on my list of guns to get one day. It fills the "mousegun" nitch better for me than a LCP or a Keltec. BTW, he carries his in a Raven Phantom and a single mag pouch on the off side. He can wear a loose fittng t shirt and you would never know it is there. Great gun, great carry package.
TC
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