Lee-Enfield Rifle 1942 No.4 MK1 "SMLE"

[luvmy40]

I just picked this up on a trade.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0715.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0720.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0716.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0719.jpg

I traded a Steyr M9A1 for the rifle, magazine, sling, bayonet, half a dozen stripper clips and 90 rounds of new .303 British ammo.

I'm just now starting to pick up a little info about these rifles and I know the pistol was worth more but this rifle was talking to me. I've never handled one before and I was looking for an irons only rifle for local CMP shoots...

The PO had applied a liberal coating of cold bluing (the pics are after a little cleaning) and it will take some time and effort to get it cleaned up but it is in pretty good shape and the rifling is still decent.

Anyone have a favorite recipe for .303 British?

[rojocorsa]

Very nice!

Guessing this is an English made one, seeing that it's not a Mk*?





If you're interested in nomenclature, 'SMLE' technically refers to the No.1 Mk. III Enfield rifle, not the No.4 rifles.

[Mark/MO]

A nice clean looking rifle. Enjoy it. I have a No.4 Mk. 1* made by Savage that I got for Christmas when I was 16. It was my first "big" rifle and I shot the heck out of it.

[luvmy40]

I actually have no idea if this is an English made rifle or not. From the little bit of reading I've done it would appear to me to be the MK1 and not the MK1* as it does have the bolt head catch.

I thought that "SMLE" referred to any of the small magazine Lee-Enfields.

[LHS]

I thought that "SMLE" referred to any of the small magazine Lee-Enfields.

Technically, it was "Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield", to differentiate it from the earlier full-length Lee Enfield and Lee Metford rifles. "Short" describes the overall length of the weapon, rather than the size of the magazine.

[xrayoneone]

English Manufacture

ROF (F) Royal Ordnance Factory Fazakerley
ROF (M) Royal Ordnance Factory Maltby
B Birmingham Small Arms Co. Ltd
M47C Birmingham Small Arms Factory

Canadian Manufacture
Longbranch

United States Manufacture
Savage marked U.S. Property and any Savage made parts will have a single "S" stamped on them.

Pakistan Manufacture
POF

This info is either stamped on the left side of the receiver or on the rear receiver ring.

[luvmy40]

Well, after a good cleaning some numbers and roll marks are now visible.

Most of the parts that are marked are marked"B" This includes the barrel, receiver, rear sight assy., bottom metal/trigger guard safety/bolt lock and front stock band. The middle stock band is marked "SNA" but the A has no cross bar.

The serial nos. for the receiver and barrel do not match.

I am glad that I took the time to tear this down and clean the gunk off as it was covering a good bit of rust. I could not get the bolt completely dis-assembled but it appears to be in fairly good shape. I did order the break down and cleaning manual from Amazon. Hopefully it will guide me through dis-assembling the bolt.

Now a good rubbing of linseed oil on the wood and the blasphemy is complete!

[rojocorsa]

IIRC, you need an armorer's tool to take the bolt down completely.


To the list that was posted, shouldn't "Ishapore" (India) also be included?

[xrayoneone]

IIRC, you need an armorer's tool to take the bolt down completely.


To the list that was posted, shouldn't "Ishapore" (India) also be included?

No, Ishapore only ever made the SMLE No 1 Mk III type rifles and from what I have read the same goes for Lithgow (Australia)

A "B" on your No 4 indicates Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) manufacture.

[luvmy40]

IIRC, you need an armorer's tool to take the bolt down completely...

You are correct sir!

I found a couple different tools(one vintage one new mfg) on ebay and may pick one up. They are a bit pricy for what they are and I really don't see the need to take the bolt down unless the FP or spring is broken. I'll burn that bridge at a later date.

It also looks like the forward top wood is from Savage.

Any idea if that SNA marking is Savage also?

[Spooky130]

Is there a good forum to learn about these rifles? I've started to think about picking one up but have almost no knowledge about them...

Spooky

[Redhat]

Is there a good forum to learn about these rifles? I've started to think about picking one up but have almost no knowledge about them...

Spooky

Yep!

http://milsurpshooter.net/

http://www.milsurps.com/

[rojocorsa]

Is there a good forum to learn about these rifles? I've started to think about picking one up but have almost no knowledge about them...

Spooky


Yeah. Most of the well established C&R focused gun boards usually have knowledgeable people.

Also, Google is your friend! The info is out there.



Luvmy40, also--to drift the front sight, you need a reverse screwdriver to loosen that screw. You can make one with a dremel and an appropriately sized allen wrench.

[luvmy40]

Some pics after the clean up.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0723.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0730.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0728.jpg

[rojocorsa]

That's neat!

That's the first time that I've seen a stock disk on a No.4. Is the rear stock original that gun or was that once part of an SMLE?

[chadbag]

Is it arsenal refinished? I have a few arsenal refinished No 4 rifles I got back in the mid 90s when they flooded the market.

Also try

enfield-rifles.com

you may find a pic of my No 5 :) on there. (An Indian rework it seems).


I should clean up and do some history work on a No 1 Mk III I have from Australia. Supposedly all matching but I have not really looked it over. Got it and the No 5 from an ROTC instructor (Active Army) who was being transferred to Japan.

I love the British rifles.


--

[luvmy40]

rojocorsa,
I really have no way of knowing what is original or not except that I am fairly sure that the front top hand guard is from Savage and not the U.K. which would also lend credence to the butt stock not being original either.

chadbag,
I have no clue if it is arsenal refinished. The guy that I traded with was a twentysomething new to guns said that he bought it from an old timer at a local gun show and had run around 50 rounds through it when he decided to get into a more economical caliber. I have been informed that the gunk I cleaned off was probably cosmoline(sp?) from it being stored in the past. The bore was just as nasty as the outer surfaces so it would appear that the youngster never cleaned it after firing or he actually never fired it and was blowing smoke up my nether region.

I'll be hitting the range with it Wednesday so wish me luck!

[Redhat]

rojocorsa,
I really have no way of knowing what is original or not except that I am fairly sure that the front top hand guard is from Savage and not the U.K. which would also lend credence to the butt stock not being original either.

chadbag,
I have no clue if it is arsenal refinished. The guy that I traded with was a twentysomething new to guns said that he bought it from an old timer at a local gun show and had run around 50 rounds through it when he decided to get into a more economical caliber. I have been informed that the gunk I cleaned off was probably cosmoline(sp?) from it being stored in the past. The bore was just as nasty as the outer surfaces so it would appear that the youngster never cleaned it after firing or he actually never fired it and was blowing smoke up my nether region.

I'll be hitting the range with it Wednesday so wish me luck!

To see if it is a arsenal rebuild, look for the letters "FTR" which stands for Factory Thorough Repair.

[rojocorsa]

What ammo will you be shooting?

[luvmy40]

I have 30 rds of PPU 174grn.

I have a 32 rnd box labeled:
P.A.8 Mk7 with C.I.A (P) over P.O.F.

And a loose 30rnds headstamped: RG 44 BV11Z

All came with the rifle. I have a set of dies and will be hand loading. Any suggestions for a starting load?

[RiflemanBobcat]

I have 30 rds of PPU 174grn.

I have a 32 rnd box labeled:
P.A.8 Mk7 with C.I.A (P) over P.O.F.

And a loose 30rnds headstamped: RG 44 BV11Z

All came with the rifle. I have a set of dies and will be hand loading. Any suggestions for a starting load?

All I got:

The loose 30rds with the RG 44 VIIZ headstamp will be 1944-mfg'd Mk.VII ball, loaded with a non-Cordite propellant (nitrocellulose ball/flake? I forget exactly what it was), made by the Radway Green arsenal. Definitely corrosive, Berdan primers.

All I can offer on handloading is something I've been told repeatedly: "Don't full-length resize the cases unless you want head separations, and be prepared for the brass to not last all that many loads anyway."

I went and bought a broken shell extractor before I even had any ammo for my Long Branch No.4 Mk.1* in hand. It lives in the butt trap. Haven't had need to use it yet, but it's certainly comforting to know that it's back there.

Please do share your recipe(s) if you come across a load that works well! I'd be very interested in hearing about results.

[rojocorsa]

PPU is good stuff, and is what I exclusively shoot through mine. They say it has the best brass too. The place to get it is Wideners, Palmetto State, or even SGAmmo now.


Radway Green is British surplus ammo, corrosive as already stated. Cordite wears down the bore faster too, since it burns so hot.

POF is Crap-a-stani ammo from Pakistan. Spotty quality, primers often hangfire, and its corrosive. I've never shot any through mine, but I assume its not accurate naturally. To be honest, I want my rifle to last another 60 years, so I will not bother with this crap. I would also not bother with RG, since it is old (propellants deteriorate over time) and berdan corrosive. Might as well hang on to it as "period" ammo and "collect" it.

I will see if I can get you a good handload recipe from my buddy...

Enjoy the Enfield!

[luvmy40]

Thanks for the heads up on the corrosive ammo. I'll keep it as a period accoutrement.

I just got a couple "Books" about the Lee-Enfield rifles. I plan on a little reading and researching for load data. I'm am fairly new to loading rifle cartridges. I'm still figuring out how to adjust the sizing die. Can you neck size with the small base full length die or does it take a completely different die? I guess I'll need to pick up a universal decapping die at the very least.

[rojocorsa]

I asked my friend if he wouldn't mind passing on his .303 recipe. Will post it when I get it.

Sadly, I do not know anything about loading .303 other than you only resize the neck and powders like IMR 4895 and 4064 tend to work well with these.

I personally do not know how to handload yet, but I am saving all my .303 brass for that.

[rojocorsa]

Here is some info i got for the handload:



.312 bullet 174 & 150 gr.
H4895 powder-41 gr.
COL 2.095

Weird, the 3 manuals I looked at had a big difference in the powder amounts, hence using the same powder drop for 2 different weight bullets.
I seated bullet to book OAL.

[A mutual friend] seats the bullets to the cannelure w/ no issues he says.

[brickboy240]

Nice Enfield!

I have a Canadian 1944 Long Branch that is in similar condition. I also have a 1942 Savage made lend-lease No4 and an Aussie MkIII SMLE.

The truth is that my 1944 Canadian will keep up with my 03-A3 and K98 at the 100yd range. The groups from all 3 are so close...it is barely worth mentioning. The No4 Canadian actually has MUCH better sights than the K-98 Mauser. Only the Garand had better sights, as far as WWII service rifles go.

The No4 has a nice short bolt throw..much like the Krag. Since it cocks on closing...it is also very fast.

I love my No4 Enfleid and only the Swede Mausers and Swiss K-31 will out-group the thing at 100yds. Many believe the Enfields are not accurate...I have not found that to be true at all.

- brickboy240

[Stan9106]

English Manufacture

ROF (F) Royal Ordnance Factory Fazakerley
ROF (M) Royal Ordnance Factory Maltby
B Birmingham Small Arms Co. Ltd
M47C Birmingham Small Arms Factory

Canadian Manufacture
Longbranch

United States Manufacture
Savage marked U.S. Property and any Savage made parts will have a single "S" stamped on them.

Pakistan Manufacture
POF

This info is either stamped on the left side of the receiver or on the rear receiver ring.

They were also manufactured at Lithgow, in New South Wales, Australia. My brother-in-law has one that was sporterized before he got it. He's taken many, many deer with it over the years.

[brickboy240]

Yep...my 1943 Lithgow Aussie MKIII is one accurate and fun rifle and very well made.

Sad that you cannot find good surplus 303 anymore. Gone are the days of cheap Greek HXP surplus or even the 303 Vickers belts that I used to take apart and run through my Enfields.

- brickboy240

[Jake'sDad]

Good on you! You'll enjoy that piece of history. Talk about a long record of service! My favorite is still my Jungle Carbines, even though they rattle my teeth to shoot them.

I haven't been giving my Enfields much attention in the last few years. I need to change that. Frankly, until I go open the safes, I'm not even sure how many I have anymore, (though I do have a serial number list somewhere). I'm down to my last case of Winchester USA "white box" .303 ammo that they ran about the same time we got the rifles. Damn that stuff shot good! It was friggin cheap too. I bought 10 or 12 cases, but between shooting it, and giving some away, only one left.

One of my best friends that passed away years ago, talked me into buying one of the "Irish contract" rifles when they were imported, (early 90's?), and he had an in with the wholesaler selling them. Beautiful rifles, with the light blond stocks. I think I paid $175 for it, brand spanking new, wrapped and cosmolined. I cleaned it up, but couldn't bring myself to shoot it, (though my buddy shot the piss out of his, God Bless him). It still sits in the safe with the other Enfields, guess one of the Grandkids will decide if they want to shoot it or sell it.

[Kain]

That's a good looking rifle, always thought they had a certain beauty to them. I am looking at a trade for one myself at the moment, just not sure if it is worth it for me though, the one I am being offered I don't think is in as nice condition as the one here.

[brickboy240]

A Lee Enfield of just about any make that is in good condition, is a better shooter than you'd believe.

The No4s have really nice peep sights....much better than the dinky V sights on most Mausers and only the Garand is better as far as WWII rifle sights go.

The Lee Enfield has a very light recoil and a very fast operating bolt.

They look odd if you are used to seeing Mausers and Springfields but they shoot very well...as good as many Mausers, Springfields and Nagants in my experience.

Now my Swedish Mausers, Finnish Nagant and Swiss K-31 will gladly out-group the Enfields at 100yds, but my 4 Enfleids will keep up with any K-98 or Russkie Mosin I have ever shot.

- brickboy240

[xrayoneone]

They were also manufactured at Lithgow, in New South Wales, Australia. My brother-in-law has one that was sporterized before he got it. He's taken many, many deer with it over the years.

Lithgow only ever made the No. 1 Mk III and Mk III*, not the No. 4. The Mk III was standard Australian issue until it was replaced by the L1A1.

[rojocorsa]

Lithgow only ever made the No. 1 Mk III and Mk III*, not the No. 4. The Mk III was standard Australian issue until it was replaced by the L1A1.

Thought so.