I'm guessing he will say HK P30, M&P 9 and Glock 9mm.
B_C
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I'm guessing he will say HK P30, M&P 9 and Glock 9mm.
B_C
Good guess.
Read the thread.
I'm working through it. Just seemed like a host of issues not to dissimilar from other pistols that need lots of attention.
Trying to get my head around what makes some problems acceptable (FTF/FTE/trigger reset issues etc) in one weapon, but not another.
Not being cheeky either, by the way.
I consider myself a average gun guy, i have a CZ75 even...it sits in a case. My M&P 9 is the one I keep bedside because I KNOW that I can trust me and my wife's lives with it. I'm also on a limited income I quit eating out lunch at work. That affords me roughly 200 rounds per week to help me make sure that between me and the man i hope never comes through my backdoor at 1am, I'm the one that can come out on top.
When it comes to responsibly owning a defensive handgun probably fine shouldn't even be in your dictionary.
Oh absolutely... However, part of my motivation here was to consolidate to something that didn't need too much done out of the box. What I was trying to ascertain is if the M&P is still experiencing growing pains, what years have these bugs and which don't (if any) and if what tinkering they require out of the box is enough to put me back to looking at something else.
I read through a fair bit of that one, and the HKp30 test as well. Impressive for sure. I would love to see one done on a CZ.. but I know that's not gonna happen.
Not quite.
The M&P is by no means a perfect handgun...which is reflected in that thread. They did have strikers that broke with dryfire, but even after all this time I have yet to find a single documented instance of one going tits up during live fire. S&W has released strikers that handle dryfire better...although I'm still running on older strikers that haven't broken in my carry guns that have seen a lot of rounds and a lot of dryfire without a snap cap. All guns, however, will break with enough dryfire.
The 9mm versions of the M&P do have the potential for extraction issues when shooting ammo that has a small rim. To most, this means Winchester White Box, which is cheap and readily available. As I said in the thread, I've put over 10,000 rounds of WWB through 9mm M&P handguns...and I've experienced exactly four failures to extract. (Far less than what CZ brags about in their "NATO test" blurb) I've never had a problem with literally any other brand of ammunition, including cheap Russian lacquer coated, steel-cased stuff.
The reset issues are largely a result of using a non-standard sear like the Performance Center sear or an aftermarket sear...in other words, people screwing with the gun to tune the trigger.
Now those issues have to be considered in the context of the thousands of guns out there enduring service use and heavy use without issue. I can, after all, find 9mm Glocks that don't work out of the box if I look hard enough. I can find examples of issues and problems with every type of handgun on the market if I look hard enough...which is why I stated clearly that there are no perfect handguns.
...but the fact that all mass-producers of firearms occasionally ship lemons or get brilliant ideas for engineering changes that turn out to be stupid doesn't mean that all the options on the market are equal. Glock has a big chunk of the pistol market and of all the 9mm handguns they've produced a relatively small percentage of them experience problems. They have a well documented and well established track record of functioning right out of the box and are known to continue to function even when they are not maintained. They've done well in scores of tests for contracts as far as reliability and durability, even if they weren't eventually chosen as the winner.
It's impossible to find a model or brand of firearm that has never had any problems. It is possible, however, to do some research and find out that some weapons have a decidedly lower incidence of problems than others.
Generally speaking, if you buy a stock M&P it'll work. If you experience some problems, generally a trip back to S&W resolves the issue. If you get one that works, either from the box or after a free trip back to S&W, you can shoot lots of rounds through it before you need to worry about doing anything to the gun. I believe S&W recommends changing out the recoil spring every 5,000 rounds or so...but I had well over 10,000 on my original M&P before I ever changed out the recoil spring with no problems. You'll want to change the trigger return spring at the recommended intervals, but that's true of a Glock as well. Beyond that, you don't have to do much. I bought a couple of M&P's from Grant earlier this year and I've taken one of them through a number of classes this year...all told almost 6,000 rounds through the gun in classes alone...more in personal practice. I've never actually cleaned it. I just ensure there isn't too much crud under the extractor, put some lube on it before a class and shoot it. When the class is over I just throw it back in the range bag and then into the safe until I'm ready to shoot it again.Quote:
Oh absolutely... However, part of my motivation here was to consolidate to something that didn't need too much done out of the box. What I was trying to ascertain is if the M&P is still experiencing growing pains, what years have these bugs and which don't (if any) and if what tinkering they require out of the box is enough to put me back to looking at something else.
That's about as low maintenance as it gets.