Since he's a cop, can he get a Glock G28?
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Since he's a cop, can he get a Glock G28?
The PM9, LC9, and what will likley be unveiled by S&W at SHOT are just too big for pocket carry (Unless S&W's 9mm is the same size as a BG .380, which I doubt). For me, this is why I stay with a true mouse gun like the LCP. It can go everywhere with me and nobody will ever know. Like to Christmas dinner with my absurdly liberal family who is disgusted by the fact that I think carrying a gun is a good idea. No need to tuck it in the waistband and wear a shirt over it. Jeans and T-shirt and I'm good.
I have the LCP and have been very happy with it. It has been 100% reliable and shoots surprisingly well. I know about 25 others with the LCP and there haven't been any issues I am aware of (other than a couple with trouble qualifying but that is operator error). I also have a PM9 and it is now great (had to go back once but has been reliable since) but, while small, it is significantly larger than the Ruger. For my use, BUG on duty, the LCP is the right fit for me. I have played with the Bodyguard a little in the store and it felt good. I'm not a fan of integral lasers though.
I'd sure try like crazy to make the PM9 work out. I have a Colt Mustang .380 that's a pretty handy little gun, but I've never HAD to drop down to .380, having a PM9 available. I understand that today's .380 ammo is much more effective than the .380 of old, but today's top 9mm ammo is much better yet and the PM9 is, for me anyway, always do-able if a G19/23 or similar is just too much to carry.
Here's a good reference for dimensions and weights of common mouse guns. I think weight is just as important as size when trying to conceal a firearm.
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
Something to mention about the LCP trigger is the "false" trigger reset. I shot alot off of feel, after you shot a round off you release the trigger and feel the "click" 99.9% of weapons this means that it's time to pull the trigger again, WRONG the LCP has 2 clicks the first about 1/4 of the way forward and the last which is the real reset happen all the way forward. This is my main gripe with the LCP.
I always wondered how much hard use you could get out of a LCP and I'm pleasantly surprised to hear this. This light weight mouse gun has to beat up your hand after a box or two of ammo.
I had a NAA .380 Guardian. I put a few hundred rounds through it. It is a good bug, but wish the trigger was a few pounds lighter. I ended up giving it to my niece. If I had to go with a .380, the Walter PPK would be my choice or a Makarov, for the extra "Oomph" over the .380.
Paul, you have always been kind and prompt with helping me as a customer so I will try to give my $0.02 from my experience and somewhat of the talk I give customers at the shop asking me the very same question.
First and foremost, anything that is to be a "pocket" gun is not going to be a good range gun, so comfort while shooting comes down to what can you bare and how much do you really intend to practice with this thing. I have an LCP which I bought because a customer traded it in and I couldn't pass up the price, that being said it usually collects dust in a pocket as a strict backup gun and rarely is used as primary CCW. The .380 is better than throwing rocks, but I'd rather have a 9mm or 38 spcl. What I try to explain to customers, especially those who I know shoot a lot, is that the cost of .380 ammo is about double that of 9mm and almost double that of 38 spcl. (talking FMJ here).
The ruger, or keltec, or Sig might be cheap, but shoot it often and the thought of cheap will never come into your mind again. If you can pocket an LCP you can pocket a J frame as well. J frames have an inherently more reliable design (revolver vs semi auto) and the rounds are more potent and cheaper to practice with. Neither gun is a "pleasure" to shoot a lot of rounds with, but what backup/off duty gun is.
I myself did not find the LCP bad to shoot and grouped well with it from 7 yards in both one and two handed, but it really is a one handed weapon. There isn't much real estate to grab. The revolvers will depend on it's grip and the size of your hands as well.
I still say that there is no reason why one can't comfortable CCW a subcompact Glock, HK, M&P, etc, but some circumstances do require a smaller weapon and I get that. I ended up selling my LCP because it just wasn't getting much use, and it was tiny and I'm not a fan of small pistols. For "my"uses I can dress around compact and full size guns for carry, even for when on my bike in the summer in South, FL.
There is nothing wrong with the G27 your buddy has, but if he does want/need something smaller there's nothing wrong with a boringly reliable revolver that you can carry in your pocket, apendix, IWB, ankle, etc.
Just my $0.02
Let us know what he decides.
:D
Paul,
The new Kimber SOLO 9mm is something to consider as well. We just got this one in yesterday. I'll be shooting it tomorrow morning and giving it back to my boss on Monday. These will MSRP for $723 but I think we'll be selling them for $659 with our normal mark up. The trigger is very nice, it's striker fired and has a nice reset and does have a manual safety as well. I do wish it were checkered on the front and back strap but maybe that's in the works. Crimson Trace is working on a laser for it and I'm sure Mepro will have night sights for it very soon as well.
Here's some pics of it next to my custom Kimber Warrior .45 1911.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8045.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8044.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8047.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8050.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8046.jpg
My Keltec P3AT is seven years old and has never let me down. FWIR, Ruger bought the design from KT so I don't think there is much difference between the two. One thing I will say about Keltec is that they have superior customer service.
Robb, if you find the time could put up a pic of it with another subcompact like the PM9 or LCP, or something else you have on hand?
Here you go Ruger LCP, Kimber SOLO, Glock 19.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8055.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8058.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8059.jpg
Kimber SOLO 9mm and Ruger LCP .380
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8061.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8063.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8064.jpg
Kimber SOLO and Glock 19.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4/IMG_8066.jpg
Excellent, thanks Robb. You get a chance to shoot it yet?
I cant wait to see what S&W drops at SHOT. Hope whatever it is that it will actually be available shortly (not like some of the optics I have been waiting for after last year).
We shot the Bersa 380 and it was pretty accurate from the 7 yard line. COM and head shots were easy. It did jam but it was a new gun. I would carry it after a couple of hundred rounds of 380 through it for reliability.
I have handled (but not shot) the Kimber Solo myself. My dealer got one in on Friday. Their price was $650ish IIRC. It was very interesting but I'm not a Kimber guy, esp for a $650 BUG.
The front and rear straps are both slick as ICE with no checkering. They would immediately require skateboard tape. The slide and frame are very de-horned (which is good) but the slide is also really slick. I can believe I'm saying this but it could prob use some FCS on it just to give you some traction.
I like the sights but NS will of course be an improvement. The trigger has an adequate feel. I suspect the weight will help manage recoil quite nicely. I could be wrong but the thumb safety looked like plastic and was an awkward looking/feeling design IMO. I really don't like that control. Engineering could have done a better job there.
I have every intention of getting a LC9 to try out but the S&W offerings will be interesting as well. I will be curious to see the specs and retail price.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...rad/mail-1.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...lgrad/mail.jpg
I have an LCP that really works well for when I can't carry anything bigger like when I'm wearing gym shorts. I've put approximately 400 rounds through it without a malfunction and I find it to be reasonably accurate.
The only real problem I had is after carrying it for a while IWB, with the frame mounted clip, the slide started to rust a little where it made contact with my skin. I don't really fault Ruger for this as I probably should have been better about wiping it down after carrying it. To head off future problems of this nature I had it NP3'd. The only other modification I want for it is a crimson trace laser.
I think it's a great little back up gun and I know a few guys at work who carry one with no complaints. All that being said, I still like my S&W 442 better which I carry as my BUG in a renegade ankle holster.
ETA: If you are thinking about getting it NP3'd I would reconsider as it makes the slide a little too slick for my tastes.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...G_1468mod1.jpg
The Kimber SOLO looks nice, however, I'll let somebody else be the guinea pigs on that experiment, due to Kimber's track record.
I'd feel pretty well armed with a S&W bodyguard.
However, I'd much rather have a 9x19mm model than a .380 ACP.
I'm sure a .32 ACP gun wouldn't be any less lethal. (Though I'm pretty ignorant on that one.)
Out of all those - a Bulgarian, or German Makarov would be my choice. Or a Walther PPS.
9x18mm > .380 ACP.
Well I put 200 rounds through the Kimber SOLO today.
50 rounds Prvi 158gr FMJ
50 rounds Speer Lawman 115 FMJ
50 rounds 124gr Montana Gold reloads
50 rounds of PMC 115 FMJ
Early on it had 4 stoppages for me. These were failure to ejects with the brass 1/2 way out of the chamber. The pistol was pretty dry and it did this on the 124gr Montana Gold reloads. I took the pistol apart and lube in generously with Weaponshield and then didn't experience and more stoppages.
My co-workers Friday night put 220 rounds through it with no stoppages. They also shot mostly hollow points.
The pistol feels a lot like shooting a Kahr PM9 for recoil. It's very accurate but really needs stippling or checkering on the front and back strap as it slides around a lot in the hand during recoil. I also dislike the ambi mag catch, like a Springfield XD it sort of rotates and is hard to remove the mag.
Did the plastic safety a problem?
Would you recommend it to somebody as a carry gun?
Safety caused no issues. I actually like the safety on this gun it positively goes on and off with a solid click either way. For someone wanting a small 9mm I would say yes check it out. They're supposed to make a stainless frame version too personally I'd probably prefer that one.
awm14hp,
I paid about $240 for the gun itself. Robar was running a sale on their "Norton Special" package when I dropped it off so I believe I paid about $200 for the work done but I'm sure I could dig up the receipt and find the exact price if you are interested.
I have a SIG 230 which is the same size as the 232, but it would not make a great BUG, despite the fact it is a great tack driver.
My BUG .380 is the SIG P238. Great little gun, I've had no problem with it whatsoever. I carry it in an RKBA pocket holster and it conceals well and shoots first time every time.
:confused: No doubt that, in the same caliber, a blow back pistol will recoil more vigorously than a locked breech weapon. But suck ass? How can a design that has been so widely adopted and copied over the last century suck ass?Quote:
It also sucks to shoot. Fixed barrel design sucks ass.
Had the Sig p238 in black nitron-sold it. Had the Taurus TCP-sold it. Bought a Ruger LCP-never looked back. I was one of those people that were debating on which BUG to get. I was about to purchase the Kahr p380 but just went with Ruger because the Kahr was too expensive. Let me just say this...unless you are looking for a specific feature that you absolutely need that the Kahr has and the Ruger doesn't, just go for the ruger. But if anyone is on the fence between a ridiculously expensive pocket pistol and the Ruger LCP, go for the Ruger. I guarantee you won't be disappointed. I learned this through buying and selling many pocket pistols.