Flinching with both pistol and rifle

Greetings all, long time lurker infrequent poster. I just recently joined my local range and have been shooting quite a bit. I've noticed that I can flinch from time to time with a handgun, at least 1 shot out of every magazine will be a good bit lower than the group.


With a rifle it's a different kind of flinch. If I try to shoot with just one eye I'l blink hard before the shot, but if I shoot with both eyes open it doesn't happen at all. It's not a big deal, and I can shoot both eyes open with a red dot out to 200yds without focus problems. But past 100 with open sights it's hard to focus(20/20 vision) on the front sight with both eyes open, I see it fine with just my dominant eye up until the point I pull the trigger, but then I flinch.


Any tips, tricks, or drills, to help this or is it just something that diminishes with trigger time and rounds down range? TIA

Here's my suggestion. It sounds kinda silly, but it worked for me.

Get yourself a .22, and put a couple thousand rounds down range with it. Then when you go to shoot your center fire rifle or pistol, pretend it's a .22.

I know it sounds silly, but doing that, (or alternatively muttering to yourself that "the recoil cannot hurt me") works.

Try not to think about when you are going to shoot when squeezing the trigger. Just let it "surprise" you and maybe focus more on your breathing so you don't think about the shot.

I'm going through something similar with my 9-year old son; teaching him how to shoot. What I've found that helps at the range is dry firing before any shots are sent downrange, until he gets comfortable. Then, load one round in the chamber and have him shoot that. Then two etc. If I see him start to flinch, we go back to dry firing maybe a dozen times again; making sure that he's not flinching on the dry fire shot. Then repeat, alternating dry firing and shooting live rounds. The dry firing helps to remind him how he's supposed to pull the trigger, and get the feel for it without the anticipation of the loud sound, and observe the sights.

MM touched on dry firing, which is a great place to start to learn breath control, trigger squeeze and sight picture. You want the point at which the trigger breaks to be a surprise, not anticipated. Buy dummy rounds and load them randomly in your magazines with live rounds. What happens when the hammer drops on the dummy round? Do you almost fall on your face? Or do you maintain a correct sight picture? One funny trick someone taught me way back when I started shooting PPC matches: while squeezing the trigger repeat the mantra "front sight clear, straight to the rear". This does a few things: makes you concentrate on the front sight while squeezing the trigger, and most importantly while reciting this you are not thinking about the trigger breaking so it is a surprise. It sounds goofy but helped me tremendously, especially when training to shoot from 50 yards with a double action revolver.

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Originally Posted by militarymoron

I'm going through something similar with my 9-year old son; teaching him how to shoot. What I've found that helps at the range is dry firing before any shots are sent downrange, until he gets comfortable. Then, load one round in the chamber and have him shoot that. Then two etc. If I see him start to flinch, we go back to dry firing maybe a dozen times again; making sure that he's not flinching on the dry fire shot. Then repeat, alternating dry firing and shooting live rounds. The dry firing helps to remind him how he's supposed to pull the trigger, and get the feel for it without the anticipation of the loud sound, and observe the sights.

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^^This.

Dry fire, a lot.

I agree with dry firing to help work through an issue. Dry firing is a very effective way to develop sound shooting skills.

I suggest placing a dime on the front sight while dry firing your handgun. Concentrate on building a good shooting position and pressing the trigger to the rear without the dime falling off.

Once you move onto live fire, try loading one round at a time in the pistol or rifle and focus on that one shot. Repeat single shots until you feel you have mastered the process, then load the pistol or rifle with two shots, etc.

If you think noise is causing you to flinch, try doubling up on hearing protection using both earplugs and headphones.

Speed comes with time and countless repetitions using proper technique. You can work on speed after you have mastered the single shot.

Prof, there was some good advice here, have you been able to try any of it yet? If so, did it help?

Breathe.

Google ‘respiratory pause shooting’.

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Originally Posted by Brett Kastl

Prof, there was some good advice here, have you been able to try any of it yet? If so, did it help?

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Absolutely!^^^^^^

Remember that people generally flinch for two reasons, immediately after surprise and/or pain. In shooting (or other activities where we anticipate either, we unintentionally induce the response. So when someone is new to shooting, it’s important to understand this and proactively take steps to mitigate the action.

Three things I do when introducing new shooters to firearms:

1. Dry fire every weapon a dozen or more times at the range immediately prior to live fire

2. I have them wear BOTH earplugs AND muffs

3. Always shoot at least 100 rounds of .22LR, typically start with my Ruger 22-45 then SR22

Seems to help take the flinch out as it helps the brain understand that shooting does not hurt the body (assuming you do things in a safe manner and are on the right side of the muzzle [emoji33])

Also, something I also do immediately prior to their shooting their first 9MM round is I have them hold the UNLOADED pistol (we check it twice to ensure it’s unloaded) pointing down range as if shooting, and close their eyes. I then randomly smack the muzzle end of the firearm with the heel of my palm pretty hard to simulate recoil. I then ask them “...did I hurt you?” We repeat this drill several times, a bit harder each time until I’m smacking the gun harder than any 10MM round. When they realize and wrap their heads around the fact by feel that there is no pain involved, it really helps.

Hard to do by yourself, I know, but by aiming the gun, closing your eyes and focusing on “feeling the recoil” just before pulling the trigger, and then concentrating on the sensation and acknowledging there is no pain, can help train yourself to stop flinching.


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Dry fire practice drills is what you seek.

I agree with what’s been shared. Ear plugs with muffs, and lots of dry fire practice with a dime on the muzzle.

Ball and dummy drills....

Whether it be with a rifle or a pistol, focus on pulling the trigger SLOWLY and SMOOTHLY. Think of yourself as ROLLING the trigger back. Also, focus on pulling the trigger back as STRAIGHT BACK as you possibly can. These things sound small, but they can make a huge impact on your accuracy.

Do dry fire practice pulling the trigger in this way...just like 10 proper pulls a day, and then apply it at the range. Your flinching should go away, and your accuracy should be pretty solid.

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Originally Posted by MisterHelix

Here's my suggestion. It sounds kinda silly, but it worked for me.

Get yourself a .22, and put a couple thousand rounds down range with it. Then when you go to shoot your center fire rifle or pistol, pretend it's a .22.

I know it sounds silly, but doing that, (or alternatively muttering to yourself that "the recoil cannot hurt me") works.

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I don’t flinch, I over anticipate recoil..... I’ve gotten to shooting a lot more 22, in rifle and handgun. I used to do more dry firing, but haven’t much lately- but I think I’ll go back to more. To me the are like building blocks.

That, and with my son I tried to get him to not do fake recoil when he was playing guns around the house with - Pew-pew with a finger or an unloaded nerf gun. Why use all that trigger time and build bad habits?

With my son and I both shooting now, blowing thru 9 and 556 gets expensive. A couple of hundred rounds of 22 helps to soften the blow a bit.

I also try to focus not on the recoil, but getting the sight picture/dot back.

All the advice on dryfiring, double ear protection, ball-and-dummy drills is excellent, but there is one additional "mental" tweak to add.

When you take up the trigger slop or first stage, and are about to break the shot, think about adding half the pressure required - not all of it at once - and then another half of what's left, and again, until the shot breaks.

The guy who told me this says that by trying to not fire the shot, your body will not be anticipating recoil or trying to 'get it over with' - and will remain stationary.

As long as you are only trying to add half as much pressure as it would take to break the shot, over and over, until it breaks "unintentionally" you will not have a chance to twitch and screw it up. Clearly your shooting is intentional, you're trying to put the round into the X-ring or you wouldn't be on the firing line, but if your mind thinks "Now!" all sorts of movements follow, throwing the shot out into the 8 ring or worse.

Geez when I decide to post this I was sure I could say it clearly, now not so sure...

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Originally Posted by Professor Gascan

Greetings all, long time lurker infrequent poster. I just recently joined my local range and have been shooting quite a bit. I've noticed that I can flinch from time to time with a handgun, at least 1 shot out of every magazine will be a good bit lower than the group.


With a rifle it's a different kind of flinch. If I try to shoot with just one eye I'l blink hard before the shot, but if I shoot with both eyes open it doesn't happen at all. It's not a big deal, and I can shoot both eyes open with a red dot out to 200yds without focus problems. But past 100 with open sights it's hard to focus(20/20 vision) on the front sight with both eyes open, I see it fine with just my dominant eye up until the point I pull the trigger, but then I flinch.


Any tips, tricks, or drills, to help this or is it just something that diminishes with trigger time and rounds down range? TIA

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eETQjJQT68w

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Originally Posted by BuzzinSATX

Absolutely!^^^^^^

Remember that people generally flinch for two reasons, immediately after surprise and/or pain. In shooting (or other activities where we anticipate either, we unintentionally induce the response. So when someone is new to shooting, it’s important to understand this and proactively take steps to mitigate the action.

Three things I do when introducing new shooters to firearms:

1. Dry fire every weapon a dozen or more times at the range immediately prior to live fire

2. I have them wear BOTH earplugs AND muffs

3. Always shoot at least 100 rounds of .22LR, typically start with my Ruger 22-45 then SR22

Seems to help take the flinch out as it helps the brain understand that shooting does not hurt the body (assuming you do things in a safe manner and are on the right side of the muzzle [emoji33])

Also, something I also do immediately prior to their shooting their first 9MM round is I have them hold the UNLOADED pistol (we check it twice to ensure it’s unloaded) pointing down range as if shooting, and close their eyes. I then randomly smack the muzzle end of the firearm with the heel of my palm pretty hard to simulate recoil. I then ask them “...did I hurt you?” We repeat this drill several times, a bit harder each time until I’m smacking the gun harder than any 10MM round. When they realize and wrap their heads around the fact by feel that there is no pain involved, it really helps.

Hard to do by yourself, I know, but by aiming the gun, closing your eyes and focusing on “feeling the recoil” just before pulling the trigger, and then concentrating on the sensation and acknowledging there is no pain, can help train yourself to stop flinching.


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Great advice in this post. I would suggest the people also flinch in *anticipation* of surprise or pain. It's a lot like when you drop something near your foot and say OUCH only to realize it missed and you don't have any pain at all, or if you say OUCH for a minor toe stub thinking it would be a big one and turns out it really didn't hurt.

One thing that really helped my flinch other than doing more shooting was practicing with a particular rifle I have that has a trigger with no perceptible wall at all. EVERY time you fire it you have no idea precisely when it will fire.

Two extremes of trigger design will help resist flinching. One extreme is a rolling trigger break with no perceptible "wall" to push through-- my Geissele SD3G is like this, but so is the DAO P250 sig and a few DAO handguns. They just move, move, move and BANG! (not all DAOs are free of stacking, many can be terrible and invite flinching).

The other extreme is a trigger that has zero movement at all until it breaks. Zero creep or "stacking". The 2nd stage of my Geissele HSNM is like this. You pull through the first stage, and park it at a short detent for the 2nd stage. It is impossible for it to move AT ALL in this 2nd stage without firing. (heck, it's tricky to not blow through the 2nd stage because it's only about 1.5#).

So a trigger that enables smooth firing must be linearly progressive in either position or in force, or both to some extent. A trigger that stair-steps builds (stacks) or just keeps creeping is one that invites a flinch.

I really struggled to shoot Glocks well for this reason. I could easily predict when the gun would fire, so I'd anticipate that and flinch. You want to see how bad your flinch is? Mix some snap caps with a live round in a magazine or revolver cylinder. When you hit that snap cap, you'll see just how badly you're jerking the trigger.

I'm still struggling with that pistol flinch for striker guns. One thing that seems to help is working on ramping up the force quickly once you get to a wall. So instead of pulling to the wall and building anticipation, once you hit that wall, you pull as quickly as you can smoothly pull. Start slow, work up in speed until you can get faster and stay smooth.

Dry Fire.
Dry Fire.
Dry Fire
And more Dry Fire.

In addition to all the other great info (dry fire, .22s, etc.) I try and introduce most new shooters to suppressed weapons.

What most people call recoil, they actually mean muzzle blast. Muzzle blast (and anticipation of) is what is actually frightening to most new shooters.

As a regular experiment, I suppress a a FN 45 and shoot it next to a FN 9 without suppressor and almost everyone will tell me they prefer the 45 because it has "less recoil." I also run a Glock 19 suppressed and after they are able to get used to it and the movement of the gun (which doesn't scare them suppressed) and they develop some consistency in hold and trigger and begin to group (usually a few hundred rounds) I tell we are taking the suppressor off and nothing is going to change except for a small firecracker in front of the muzzle which they eventually get used to.

Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by ndmiller

Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.

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There is merit to this. I attended an instructor meeting where we discussed this very thing. After about 150 rounds, a new shooter who is having difficulty grasping a concept is wasting ammunition and should step away for a while. If it is a condition of employment that they continue to train, then do something else to mix things up.

I'm an experienced shooter and can feel when I've had enough. Even the process of aiming precisely through an optic can be fatiguing, optically and mentally. This obviously doesn't apply in all shooting scenarios. But I definitely know when it is time to stop regardless of the reason.

I think I became more in tune with it shooting full house .44 Magnum for an extended time. There is only so much of that you can do in one session, regardless of experience. That said, I could probably pop off 556 rounds or 22 LR all day long and not be materially affected, unless shooting for precision through a scope for tiny groups.

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Originally Posted by HKGuns

Even the process of aiming precisely through an optic can be fatiguing, optically and mentally.

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This is SO true. After 3 rounds of a precision group I start losing it. 5 rounds is max. Some guys will say that 10 rounds are needed to get a real accuracy measurement. No way I can do that.

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Originally Posted by ndmiller

Only thing I'll add which I really notice with my daughter is when you're tired, just stop. There isn't a benefit for a newer shooter (or even a veteran shooter) to continue trying to outshoot fatigue. It happens, recognize it, stop and come back to it tomorrow.

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If you want to make a new shooter hate shooting, ignore the above.

Switch to something else less taxing, take a food break or whatever.

I've watched people get frustrated with their kids at this point and start yelling at them about their mistakes.

Here's what I do with new shooters...

I go over safety protocols etc... then I start by moving them right up to the target which is against a back stop so they can't miss. Like 5 ft away. I give them the pistol and tell them to dump the whole mag, as fast as they can, into the target, all while focusing on tracking the front sight. We are pushing for speed... no regard to accuracy. We do that 3 or 4 times and then move back for slow shots. It's not 100%, but it works most of the time.

My theory as to why it works: you're shooting so fast that you don't have time to keep flinching, so you break the habit through volume. And after 4 mags of tracking the bobbing front sight you adjust to the shock and impulse of the whole thing. The surprise is gone.

Try it. See if it works for you. Think like you're trying to control a machine gun. You can't keep blinking.

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Originally Posted by Bullz

Here's what I do with new shooters...

I go over safety protocols etc... then I start by moving them right up to the target which is against a back stop so they can't miss. Like 5 ft away. I give them the pistol and tell them to dump the whole mag, as fast as they can, into the target, all while focusing on tracking the front sight. We are pushing for speed... no regard to accuracy. We do that 3 or 4 times and then move back for slow shots. It's not 100%, but it works most of the time.

My theory as to why it works: you're shooting so fast that you don't have time to keep flinching, so you break the habit through volume. And after 4 mags of tracking the bobbing front sight you adjust to the shock and impulse of the whole thing. The surprise is gone.

Try it. See if it works for you. Think like you're trying to control a machine gun. You can't keep blinking.

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I like this, and might try it. My GF has shot a bit and knows what to do, and dry-fires well, but has been struggling with anticipation in live fire.

The key is to make sure the person shooting is actually shooting faster than they can blink/flinch while still trying to track something (Like the font sight). It doesn't matter if they can actually track it or not. It forces them to drive the gun with their eyes open. If they're shooting fast enough for this to work AND they're still flinching, they'll basically be shooting with their eyes closed, which will be pretty obvious. Just know that this usually takes several mags to break the habit - which always causes me a little heartburn seeing the money vaporize like that.

Again, for anyone trying this, make sure you set up the student with an appropriate back stop so that missing isn't going to cause errant shots to fly off somewhere dangerous. I don't think this can be done at your typical indoor range. You need some place with pistol pits or a place where you can walk them right up to the backstop.

This drill also fixes another problem I see with new shooters, which is almost as bad as the flinch: They take a shot, and then look to see where it went - EVERY TIME. This tends to show up as they progress through their learning. Which isn't a problem for sighting in a gun or checking the accuracy of the aiming system. However, they should be training in such a way that they know where the bullet should be every time the shot breaks. Once again, this drill breaks the habit of "pause and check." In this case, I have them shoot as fast as they think they can control it. Once the sights are aligned, pull the trigger. Repeat until empty. We check the target afterwards.

The slow fire drills & dry fire drills are great for working on trigger control and technique, but they all leave a pause after the shot breaks for someone to take their eyes away from what they're doing... which just seems to promote the flinch rather than solve it. What I've found works with the slow fire drills to help with flinching is to instruct the shooter to track the movement of the front sight against whatever they're aiming at. Explain that the goal is to visually see how much the sight moves off its plane every time the trigger is fully depressed - again tracking seems to force them to drive the gun. But it can be tough to work through it because even the "click" sound can be enough to make some people flinch.

- Just a few things to try that I've found work well. I'm not a professional instructor or anything like that, but I'll take the opportunity to take new shooters out whenever they ask (which seems to be happening more and more in my community). This rapid fire drill is literally the first thing I have them do because 1) it confronts whatever mechanical fears they have about guns head on, and 2) it give them immediate experience and perspective on running the gun properly once they develop the appropriate skills. Ultimately, I want any shooter to be able to present with controlled and rapid engagement, and this exercise lets them "feel" what they will be working towards.

I don't explain any of that to them, by the way. It's just, "Hey, we're going to start with this exercise so you can get the feel for how it all works and then we'll go do some slow, controlled fire to get you hitting the target."