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I did another no/low light class and have decided it would be a good idea to carry a decent light to compliment the pistol mounted light.
Is Surefire still the way to go? I'd like something with a momentary on ability. Prefer no strobe. Really awesome if under $150.
Thanks for any info.
What's an EDC tactical light? Because EDC and tactical tend to be pretty opposing forces, at least typically in the flashlight community, with EDC typically going toward smaller and more floody, often with multiple settings, and tactical being necessarily larger for the better performance with recent trends towards throw and just a single output.
What size are you willing to tolerate? What beam profile do you want? How much power do you want? Do you care at all about temperature and CRI? Do you have specific methodologies you want to use (e.g., rubber rings to help with the Rogers shooting method, usage of the Thyrm SwitchBack, etc.)? Single, dual, or multi output?
Surefire is great but not under $150 for most models.
I use a stream light protac hlx. Mine is several years old and is 1k lumens, these are going to be cheap since a 2k lumen was released not long ago.
It has momentary on and strobe but it can be disabled (since you font want that feature).
I took mine to a friends shop and had him use a lathe to cut a ring into the body for the old raven belt clip for the surefire 6P models. That is how I like to carry mine with that loop sticking out for easy access to put into action.
The 1k lumen models are on eBay often for under $100. The 2k models I've seen on sale for $150 a couple times.
I have these in all personal and company vehicles that we own plus one in my pocket.
I have not tried the 2k lumen models yet.
Sorry I wasn't clear enough in my post. I'm asking because I'm not sure what's out there that would fit that role. I don't know anything about CRI or temperature. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how it impacts a self defense scenario. I'm looking for something that I can use to illuminate or search w/out using the pistol mounted light. Something small enough to carry every day, so size-wise I would like something around the size of a single CR123 light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Defaultmp3
Thanks, I'll take a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by .45fan
Disclaimer, I'm just an enthusiast that has taken a number of low-light classes, done a decent bit of low-light force-on-force and am a gear queer, I have not used lights in a realworld duty capacity involving firearms (only as fire and SAR).Quote:
Originally Posted by czgunner
The cooler the color, the more it tends to create glare when trying to shine through atmospherics (e.g., fog, smoke, rain, etc.), hence why some folks used to run both an LED and an incandescent WML on a single gun, since cooler lights tend to have better output, but smoke from the gunpowder and like can create more glare.
CRI is much more niche, but some will argue that better color reproduction will make searching and picking up on things a bit easier.
If it's primarily self-defense, but not exclusively so, a dual mode would probably be useful, given that a low output mode can be quite useful for normal flashlight things.
Current dogma is trending toward throw, but that makes it less useful for normal flashlight things at times.
The following single cell recs are based of spec sheet and second hand reports, not my own direct experience:
- The SureFire EDCL1-T has okay throw and decent overall output, along with SureFire's legendary reliability. Some people really dig the gas pedal clicky for switchology between low and high outout, along with the ability to not accidentally override the momentary and go into constant on.
- The Malkoff MDC HA is like a budget EDCL1-T in terms of performance, but is also a bit cheaper, and just as reliable. Momentary is achieved by not pressing in all the way.
- The Malkoff MDC Bodyguard will be able to outperform the EDCL1-T in short bursts with a rechargeable. It has only a single selectable output. Momentary is achieved by not pressing in all the way.
- The Modlite Handheld PLHv2-18350 has excellent performance, but is limited by the single output, and is quite pricey (the OKW variant is the high throw version, which I personally think is not very useful in an EDC light). Momentary is achieved by not pressing in all the way, although Arisaka offers a replacement tailcap that operates as momentary only for pushing, and twist for constant on. It uses only 18350s.
- EDC Light builder has several single cell models with smaller Malkoff heads, with multiple options to tailor to your preferred metrics and methodology. They only use 18350s.
- The Streamlight ProTac 1L is like a budget Malkoff MDC HA of sorts, similar outputs, but likely less durable.
- HDS Rotary has a legendary switchology and durability, but the LEDs are little behind on the times, albeit still servicable. They're also quite pricey.
Those are what I can think of off the top of my head for lights by American companies. Plenty of other cheaper options from the likes of Nitecore, Olight, Fenix, etc.
I have a G2X that I’ve used in low/no light classes and had no problems hitting what I was aiming at. 600 lumens and under $100. For EDC, I usually carry the Cloud Defensive Chicro. It a cheap little light, but pretty bright.
The EDC aspect means that it needs to have a low output mode, and the Tactical aspect means that this mode cannot be accidentally selected when high is needed, and vice verse.
With the stated size limitation and price point, the closest I can come up with is the Elzetta Alpha A313, which comes with the standard optic and high/low tailcap. Once a Dark Sucks clip is added, the price is $200.
My number one recommendation isn't one that can be purchased as a complete light, but is a fabulous tool and not anywhere close to $150. It's the Elzetta Bravo body with a low profile or crenellated head, paired with a Malkoff M91BN LED module, and the high/low tailcap. When used with the Harries technique, for me, it is very difficult to latch the switch into always-on mode without slightly adjusting my grip on the light. Low mode can be activated by loosening the tailcap with my thumb and index finger.
My number two recommendation might be purchased as a complete light, depending on the desired tailcap, but all of the lights I'm mentioning are completely modular and very easy to reconfigure as needed. Slightly larger in size compared to the Elzetta Bravo, the Malkoff MD2 with high/low head. There are lots of tailcap options, since it uses Surefire 6P threads. A Surefire Z41 that's been upgraded with a McClicky switch and hard press boot is a great option if standing the light on it's tail isn't needed. I and up doing this quite often, so it shouldn't be completely ignored. Low mode for this light is achieved by loosening the head, which can't be easily accomplished with a pistol in the other hand.
I carry a Malkoff MD2 (with one of several tailcaps and LED modules) or Elzetta Bravo ~340 days a year. The remainder of them have an Elzetta with AVS head (even larger than my standards) or an Oveready Wasp (same size as the Elzetta).
I am a recovering flashlight geek who has bought just about every fancy Surefire, Streamlight, Malkoff, and various custom and most any vaguely tactical light since 1995. I carry a decent light 24/7 and have used many on duty working PMs for 15 years and still clearing houses during the day for the past 13. I have all Surefire on my duty guns but experiment with my handhelds constantly.
I say all this because I think that lights are evolving so fast now with much broader interest that buying higher end custom lights and even Surefire edc lights is a losing game. The new crop of Chinese sourced lights have been around for a long time now and that's where all the innovation is happening. I have carried a Klarus E2 as EDC for years due to the size, brightness, and easy tactical UI but the new Olight Warrior Mini 3 is a very clean evolution of Olights UI technology. They do the half press for medium and full press for full power better than Surefire. They also offer easy low power admin ability without interfering with the primary tactical usage. Strobe can be turned off but available if you want it. Fit and finish and performance are better than Surefire and their ancient adherence to old switching technology.
OLIGHT Warrior Mini3 Tactical Flashlight, Dual Switches LED Rechargeable Light with MCC3 Charger, 1750 Lumens Powerful EDC Flashlights for Camping, Emergency and Outdoor (Black) https://a.co/d/icwXq52
It also has more of a spot than the Klarus but with usable flood. For only $65 its worth getting and still leaving you open to upgrading in a couple years when an even more evolved model catches your interest.
Long winded but hopefully helpful!
Dennis.
Current Olight EDC
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e86a409eba.jpg
Simple answer
$40s
Streamlight protac 1l-1aa
Slightly Better answer
$150s
Surefire ed1l-t or malkoff mdc 1cr123 series
Best answer
$120+
Streamlight microstream or cloud defensive chicro and a decent 18350/18650 tac light.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An easy button option is the Streamlight Protac 88061 1L-1AA for $35
Good size for EDC, good functionality, uses 1 CR123 or 1 AA battery.
https://www.streamlight.com/products.../protac-1l-1aa
In my opinion low output isn't needed. I've never really "needed" low output, and if I did, I could use the shitty cell fone light. The few times I've not wanted to wreck my night eyesight, I've just covered the light with my hand and let a little light leak through. To me, low power would be for covering ground at night where I wanted to conserve batteries. I do keep some of those coin battery/key chain LEDs around for opening the Safe without blasting a full powered light.Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzman
I absolutely HATE mulit mode lights with a passion. And those things are almost all you can find anymore.
Agreed on that. And why I won't even mount a light on rifle that has a mode alternative.Quote:
and the Tactical aspect means that this mode cannot be accidentally selected when high is needed, and vice verse.
A good UI for a low or moonlight mode would be something like a long press. You cannot get into that mode unless you intentionally wanted to get there. Sure...it is mostly not needed, but like Grizz, I think it isn't an "EDC light" if it doesn't have it. A tactical light is something else. For a tactical UI, the Klarus XT line is hard to beat. It comes on turbo high first, no matter what. The primary button only turns it on, it doesn't change modes and brightness. The secondary mode clicky lever does that and is separate from the primary center clicky button and is to the side of it. You just flatten your thumb angle to activate it. Easy, intuitive, and everything done by feel in complete darkness.Quote:
Originally Posted by markm
A nice compact, good looking edc: 1600L and 112Kcd off of a 18350 battery. You can even get the added 18650 body (out of stock at the moment) for more output and endurance if you ever might need it.
https://skylumen.com/collections/v54...42061744210080
Lots of good info already posted in here, so i won't duplicate. The only thing i'll add, is I have been impressed with a buddy's Olight Baton 3 EDC light (not the pro version). I don't usually run Olights, but the Baton 3 is small, rechargeable, and puts out 1,200 lumens. It also clips on a hat if you need to go hands free. I don't love the button placement for the on-button, but it seems like a lot of light in a very small pocket-carryable package.
I'll go completely off the reservation.
In my experience, a good head lamp is a better alternative, in nearly every situation. The one's I use have a flip up Red Filter as well when you don't want to lose your NV. I typically don't EDC a light, unless I am hunting. But I have them stashed in locations where I can always get to them quickly.
If this is specific for an LE role, then maybe not so much, as I don't have any LE experience.
https://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-...69838199-5.jpg
Don't misunderstand, I'm a sucker for flash lights as well and have a lot of them. However, I have headlamps stashed everywhere and I usually go to them first.
A headlamp would be terrible for any kind of "tactical" situation. There's no good way to do momentary, you can't quickly deploy it (e.g., if you want to give someone a face full of light to get them to back off), isn't conducive to shooting with a handgun (especially if you have an RDS), and sucks to carry around on your person. Definitely a great option for task lighting, but that doesn't seem to be the intent here.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKGuns
Outside of a pocket carry EDC light for tactical stuff, I'm with you 100% on going for headlamps first for most every day lighting. I'm a BIG headlamp fan, especially for camping, hunting, and SAR, and use red light a lot for hunting. I've come to love the Fenix HM61R V2, as it's a headlamp, but you can unclip the light and use it as a handheld as well. It's rechargeable, so i just keep it plugged in my truck, but it also takes CR123 for backup, and puts out 1,200 lumens on high. They have a similar 71R model that is 2,700 lumens.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKGuns
Those things are indeed priceless in some situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKGuns
Nice to see Vinh's lights referenced here. I have an original K40vn. It's obsolescent now but I am not parting with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline_6
But they are outstanding for real use. I've never had to (outside of training) use my weapon/defense lights since I'm not a patrol officer or anything like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Defaultmp3
To your point though... a bump in the night isn't going to lend itself to a headlamp at all.
Which is why my SD rifles and shotguns all have rail mounted lights. I keep a head lamp sitting on my night stand, not a lot of difference grabbing that vs grabbing a flash light.Quote:
Originally Posted by markm
If you have a rail mounted light, anything you carry will be secondary and in my view, better to have that hand free to use. My strong preference is not to bring a pistol to a potential gun fight in my home and it ain't like you're likely to be up against Urban Team 6 or Ghetto Force.
This looks very interesting. Appears Streamlight updated the Wedge with a tail cap switch and shrunk it a bit. Might be what you are looking for
https://www.streamlight.com/products/detail/wedge-xt
Yes. The hands free is very valuable. I should really think about getting a few of those. As a side note we do too much fair condition shooting. When we did a night shoot a few months back I was ill prepared for low light. A head lamp would have helped out massively.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKGuns
I have one of these mounted on my ear pro. Very helpful in those situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by markm
https://www.amazon.com/Princeton-Tec...s%2C371&sr=8-2
Yes, guilty as charged on that count. I've been doing some night scouting since getting my thermal clip on......Interesting what you do and don't see at night with a thermal optic. Which "may" be a better alternative with a 1X optic vs a light. Not sure I am there yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by markm
If it starts raining, my shooting buddy starts packing up. I like shooting in the rain. Another guy brought out his NOD gear. Also interesting to see what you can and can't see at distance. I think we maxed out at 900 yard hits. A miniscule amount of back lighting on a mountain (not visible to the naked eye) blacks out everything on the mountain you're glassing.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKGuns
Interesting. That is a backlight issue. I wonder when they start going digital with processing like they do with security cameras and start using WDR (wide dynamic range). The unit would then take a fast shutter shot for the back light image and then a slower shutter shot for the dark section, then piece it together pixel by pixel. Now the mountain would look like there was no backlight at all, while the backlight wouldn't look like a bloom of light.Quote:
Originally Posted by markm
That's a UI failure IMHO. The Surefire A2 is the classic example of dual level done right. Momentary is press lightly for low, press harder for high. Constant on via twist for low, twist farther for high. When in constant low, press for momentary high.Quote:
Originally Posted by markm
Another good UI is head fully tight for full power, head half a turn loose for low.
Thats pretty much how my 2 cell EDC Surefire L4 Lumamax is set for which Ive been using for almost a decade. A 5/200 lumen low/high with momentary push and twist settings which is just about perfect for searching and working uses. Same they dont make these anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple
Streamlight PROTAC 1L-1AA for EDC with CR123A battery. Small light but very bright. I can buy 3 of these Streamlights for the price of one very similar Surefire E1B BACKUP MAXVISION.
Yes, a headlamp is generally better, and I do have several Streamlight 3AA HAZ-LO headlamps, but I don't carry them with me as an EDC. In the truck or backpack the headlamps go, but not on my person for around the town jaunts.
I bought Surefire lights for years, and still have some, but I no longer buy new ones. Their price compared to delivered performance has been found wanting.
IMHO and YMMV
Do you know which generation your L4 LumaMax is? I am fairly certain the original ones were single level as the L2 LumaMax with dual level switch came at a higher price and longer length.Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_cb
It looks like they still make a light with this interface. https://www.surefire.com/edcl2-t/
Ah my bad its an LX2 Lumamax. Other than the fragile pocket clip this thing is just about the perfect 2 cell EDC for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/...ght_631918.jpg
I have the Streamlight 1L-1AA several have recommended and while it’s nice for what it is, I’ve been happier since stepping up to the Streamlight 2L-X. I thought I wouldn’t like the size and trying to stuff it in my pocket but it’s not as bad as I’d thought. The runtime is just that much better and having a rechargeable battery is great. No more guessing or throwing away batteries prematurely.
Yea...his stuff/mods are top notch. He also gives honest build quality opinions on lights after opening them up and seeing how they are actually put together. He gives high praise to his modded Weltool lights. He puts them over Surefire's or any other brand. I've yet to try one though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple
I reached out to Malkoff Devices and he recommended the MDC HA SHO 1CR123: https://malkoffdevices.com/products/...9d02a083&_ss=r
Just to quickly update, I have been carrying the little Malkoff MDC HA SHO 1CR123. I really like it. Perfect size and does what I need. I'm not a light geek, so I can't answer tech questions.
Thats a good light!Quote:
Originally Posted by czgunner
I've been carrying that same light at work for a year without issue.
MDC HA well fits your stated criteria. Nice pick. I take along an MDC HA AA when traveling. Coincidently, I was just talking to Gene last week about rechargeables for a 3 cell Surefire. Great guy.
TBH this is what I have found to. I have had over 100 different Surefires, a few Streamlights, nitecore, fenix, etc. But I have found Olight has the best balance in the EDC/handheld market. I have a few of their weapon mounted lights, but still prefer my surefire/malkoff for a weapon mounted light, but olight wins hands down on handheld and maybe on headlamp too. One of the best parts is the rechargeable and "wireless" at that. But I can tell you I use the flashlights 1000 times more now that they are rechargeable compared to my surefire cr123 expensive replacement batteries. Not to mention run time BLOWS surefire and streamlgiht out of the water. I have used them for almost 3 hours straight before they died compared to my surfires dyeing in literally 20-30min or less. I prefer the tactical lines, so the Warrior lines as they call them due to the tail switch. I don't even own any other handhelds but olight anymore due to how much more use I get out of them compared to the surefire. I always kept the surefire on standby and used my crappy cell phone light instead so i didn't "waste" the expensive batteries. I did try 2 of the newer rechargeable surefires out and compared them to the Olights and the Olight won on brightness, throw, spill, and runtime by a LONG, LONG margin so I sold those off too. On weapon mounted, I am nervous of the reports of the rechargeable/recoil issues that cause fires so I mostly stick to surefire/malkoff still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis