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I have a P64 that is absolutely brutal to shoot, even after I installed the Wolff spring kit. Accurate as hell, but I can't shoot more than a few mags before the soreness takes the enjoyment out of it.
I've always wanted a Makarov, and am considering selling the P64 for an East German Mak. I don't want to bother with one if it beats the hell out of my hand like the P64, though.
Any input? (Aside from "Don't be a pussy.")
Perception of recoil is a personal issue that I have wondered about for a long time.Each of us reacts to recoil differently and "feels" it differently.
I cannot tolerate shooting more than 2 mags through a G23 in .40 cal,while I can shoot a BHP in .40 or a S&W M&P (compact or F/S ) with no pain at all.
To me,that means that grip angle is an issue.
My guess is that the P64 has a shorter grip,thereby causing the recoil to be more focused in a smaller portion of your hand than a Mak would.This obviously makes range time a literal "pain"
Having owned several Maks,I find them to be more comfortable to shoot than a Walther PPK in .380,so in my case,it's the length and angle of the grip that causes discomfort in shooting certain guns for me.
DAT85
Can't speak to the Mak or P64, but I have a CZ82 that's dead nuts reliable and pleasant to shoot. Recoil impulse is more of a push rather than anything else. Easy to get back on target and follow up shots are right on the mark. Could be the design with a blowback action and the barrel locked into the frame that helps, not sure.
Only complaint I have is the horrid double action trigger and the extremely long single action trigger. And spare magazines are expensive. Other than that it is what it is, a $300 pistol in a caliber that's dubious at best for self defense. But ammo is cheap, it's fun to shoot and as a walking around the property after dark to keep critters at bay until I get back to the house gun, it's not a bad deal and has served well in that capacity.
If looking for another 9x18 Mak, I would take a look into the CZ82. They can still be had for $350 or so and if J&G Sales gets them back in, they last listed them around $300 even.
I find the Makarov to be more comfortable to shoot than the CZ82 or Sig P230 .380 I've owned. Frankly, I haven't figured out why but the Makarov isn't as sharp of recoil as some other blowback guns I've owned/fired.
Problem I kept coming back to with the Mak or P64 was lack of spare magazines. The market on Makarov mags dried up before I got into that game and the P64 just never had significant numbers imported. I'm sure there's a warehouse full of the damn things sitting somewhere in Poland just waiting to be snatched up by someone, but it was a deal killer for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnut284
That and the trigger on the P64 is nothing to scream about. I just find the CZ82 to be a good balance between capacity, mag availability, trigger and overall ergonomics.
I had both and never thought the P64 to be brutal. Pretty soft shooting actually with OEM parts. However the Mak is a bit softer. Its bigger, heavier and absorbs recoil a bit more. That being said its still sharp
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I found the P64 and the PA63 both transfer recoil directly into the bone at the base of your thumb. I speculate it's the blowback action and narrow, metal grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
The mak seemed to fit my hand better, and since it's a bit larger and heavier, might have a more pleasant recoil impulse.
Maybe! Recoil is a personal thing. I never fired a gun and felt it was to much recoil and ive shot some weird stuff. .50DE, 44mag and even a pocket Derrenger in 45LC.
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Recoil felt fine... felt like it had 26lb trigger pull though. Holy hell.
I believe the straight blowback action exacerbates the recoil of the 9x18 cartridge versus the same chambering in a locked-breech design (not that I can think of any locked-breech 9x18s). This is common with sub-compact blowback .380s versus sub-compact locked-breech .380s like the Colt Mustang. Short, narrow metal frames will make it worse. Complaints of the P-64's recoil seem to be very common.
I find that the Makarov is pleasant to shoot as is the CZ-82 (I have extensive experience with both) as they're both closer to being full-size service pistols than the P-64, which I have not fired but held and would consider a compact. I did note the trigger on the P-64 was not anywhere as good as the Makarov or CZ. Actually, I don't want to downplay it. The P-64s trigger was atrocious!
My first handgun was a PA-63 I bought back when they were $89. I still remember it as the most painful handgun I've ever shot. It was much worse than my J-frame with +P .38 Special. I still don't know how a round as underpowered as a 9X18 could produce that much discomfort.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911-A1
I dont think its all that under powered. It falls somewhere between a 38 and a 38+p.
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Makarovs are still a little bit snappy, but no where near as bad as a P-64 or PPK (in 9x17).
I've got a E. German Mak, As Trajan pointed out recoil is a bit snappy,However, the EG maks have excellant triggers, in either mode. My example in SA, breaks like the proverbial glass rod,Accuracy is nothing short of excellant... Sights are typical for the era, small.. I would advise anyone buying one to consider replacing the recoil spring, and mag springs(+10%) with ones from Wolfe.. The recoil spring is the only thing which keeps this little pistol from beating itself to death, when it starts throwing emptys 15' or so,..you might want to consider replacing it...
I had to test-fire a bunch of those little blowback pistols for customers over the years back when I worked on indoor ranges. I hate them. On the plus side, they're cheap and (usually) reliable, and when one shits the bed the failure is so obvious that nobody will continue to use it. But as you've noted, aftermarket support is non-existent except for the Walther and the SIG. Their recoil is sharp, even though they're on the heavy side for the anemic cartridges they fire. They tend to have a lot of sharp edges that need to be radiused, their sights and triggers tend to be horrible, and most of them are too slippery and too small for me to shoot well in a hurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911-A1
It's too bad that so many of them are sold as guns for women.
If you just have to own a Makarov, then get one. Otherwise, consider something that's not a blowback. A J-frame/Shield/Kahr/G26 will still kick pretty hard, but you'll have far better logistics and a more meaningful cartridge.
Okie John
It's the blow-back operation of the guns that seems to generate the sharper 'kick' of these pistols...my opinion anyhow.
I bought my wife a Kahr P380..and we went out shooting the little Kahr recoil operated .380 and a Walther PPK/S .380 plus a Beretta Tomcat .32...of all the pistols..the lightweight Kahr was the most pleasant to shoot...had less perceived recoil than the considerably larger/heavier Walther in same caliber and ammo.
The .380 Kahr had less recoil even than the similiar sized..smaller calibered .32 Beretta
I have virtually every Makarov variant as well as almost all pistols chambered for the 9x18 cartridge (CZ82, CZ83, PA63, R61, P64, P83, etc.). I was fortunate enough to get in to them when they were readily available. Of all the 9x18 chambered pistols, I think that the Makarov produces the least overall felt recoil. If the Makarov you buy has been used, I'd definitely suggest getting a new recoil spring. Other than that, you should be good to go. Although Makarov magazines are no longer cheap, there are plenty of them out there. Years ago a friend and I split an order for 100 at $1.50 each. I sold most of them for $6 to $7 each on Ebay and thought I was making a killing. I wish I had them now. You might try a Pearce Grip if recoil seems too sharp.
http://www.pearcegrip.com/Products/Makarov/MAK-8