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Happy Friday to all. I’m trying to determine the value of this Colt. SN - 074XX. It’s the early version with 3 prong flash hider. Any information and valuation would be greatly appreciated. It’s around 95-98%. Not sure if it ever been fired. Thinking about selling it. Thanks in advance
In my mind, its probably worth $1200. Other people will say more, and a few might say less. You are talking about a firearm in which many many many were made.
I recently saw a very good condition SP1 sell for $3800 on GB.
Given some of the many early changes in SP1 rifles, pictures and knowing the exact model might help.
They have the worst Colt features. As far as collectible, I just have no interest in them.
09 and up Colts with proper pins and full carrier are much more appealing to me.
BIG screws and non spec pins never bothered me, I wasn't swapping parts anyway. As for full carriers, even the early 6920s were still using semi auto carriers...non issue to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsd2053
Lightweight, handy 6lb carbine that was a joy to shoot. Ran circles around Mini 14s and every other 556/223 in it's class. Even as much as a loved my HK93, side by side against a SP1 carbine it couldn't begin to compete. Of course the 6520 Lightweight Carbine with A2 sights is where it was really at when that came along.
This is my thought process as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsd2053
for what its worth , SP1 rifles have been selling for between $1800 and $2200, as someone eluded to even way more , but from what i seen the averages fall between the prices i quoted , im not talking what people are asking , but selling for ,what people are spending and that is still ticking up
who ever said $1200 ,they were selling for that 10 years ago or more and thats just not even close to a realistic number ,and if you find one for that you are doing extremely well , you may prefer 09 Colts and newer , but from a collectors stand point , a SP1 value will only head in one direction ,up , your 09 or newer Colt you wont even break even if you had to sell for at least another 20 years because "it will never be a SP1"
talking about that it has the worst features for a Colt has nothing to do with collectability , and collectability is what drives value ,anyone can go out and purchase a carbon copy brand new Colt , which by the way sell for $1200 , but the old SP1 rifles are scarce and desirable to a group of people that know about collectability , and know that their investment is almost certain
ive purchased firearms where people scoff "you paid $200 too much" , so i paid $500 instead of $300 , and now that firearm is worth $5k , SP1 rifles will be so scarce 10 years from now you will have to wait for someone to die to see one come up for sale and the value will reflect it
i have seen this with AK's , K98's , P08's P38' , SVT40's,mosins, Turkish Mausers , SKS's , even SKS M rifles , they were $300 , now $900 to $1200 , a collector sees trends , its not unlike the stock market , the goal is to buy cheap and watch value , Mosins can sell for as much as $700 now , they were $90 and stacked in corners of gun shops everywhere , i admit , i never seen the Mosin thing , i missed that one
for what its worth , SP1 rifles have been selling for between $1800 and $2200, as someone eluded to even way more , but from what i seen the averages fall between the prices i quoted , im not talking what people are asking , but selling for ,what people are spending and that is still ticking up
who ever said $1200 ,they were selling for that 10 years ago or more and thats just not even close to a realistic number ,and if you find one for that you are doing extremely well , you may prefer 09 Colts and newer , but from a collectors stand point , a SP1 value will only head in one direction ,up , your 09 or newer Colt you wont even break even if you had to sell for at least another 20 years because "it will never be a SP1"
talking about that it has the worst features for a Colt has nothing to do with collectability , and collectability is what drives value ,anyone can go out and purchase a carbon copy brand new Colt , which by the way sell for $1200 , but the old SP1 rifles are scarce and desirable to a group of people that know about collectability , and know that their investment is almost certain
ive purchased firearms where people scoff "you paid $200 too much" , so i paid $500 instead of $300 , and now that firearm is worth $5k , SP1 rifles will be so scarce 10 years from now you will have to wait for someone to die to see one come up for sale and the value will reflect it
i have seen this with AK's , K98's , P08's P38' , SVT40's,mosins, Turkish Mausers , SKS's , even SKS M rifles , they were $300 , now $900 to $1200 , a collector sees trends , its not unlike the stock market , the goal is to buy cheap and watch value , Mosins can sell for as much as $700 now , they were $90 and stacked in corners of gun shops everywhere , i admit , i never seen the Mosin thing , i missed that one
The ramped carriers in some generations of Colts sucked. Semi doesn't bug me, but ramped semi auto carriers sucked. I think those were well after the SP1s production though.. in the 90s.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteyrAUG
They're not making any more SP1's and that will prevent the value from going down. However, there's just no denying that the features of the newer Colt AR15's do have an impact on the value of the SP1's. Only collectors who have to fill that hole in their collection will pay more for something that is less. Collectors like me who don't have the desire to fill every hole will spend their money on the gun that's closest to the military version. If the SP1's were the closest we could get to a real military full auto M4/M16, they'd be worth far more than they are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopharted
i respectfully disagree that the features of new Colts affect price of SP1 rifles , for this reason , and understand i am not arguing ,just presenting facts as i know them , lets say there are 40 million AR15 fans out there , its just a number to prove a point , its stuck in my head from the brace issue , 40 million enthusiasts that think SP1 rifles are only worth fair market value of $1200 like some state here in this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Bret
now lets say out of the entire country there are only 500 people that HAVE to have one for their collection , i personally see maybe 12- 15 SP1 rifles pop up for sale within a year , i do not go actively go looking for every single one , just what i notice and then i pay attention to what they bring , this is where my estimates come from , i do this on allot of weapons so is i see something in the wild i have a some what educated idea what it should go for
so if i am seeing 12-15 a year , so are those 500 people that have to have one , the problem is 500 people with 12-15 rifles to go around , even if 5 of those 500 are competing for one of those 12-15 the price will drive up like the one post just under 4k
these 500 collectors dictate market value , the 40 million that are stuck in 2008 prices have less than zero affect on the price , they by own admission drop out at $1200 , the buying power of 500 over powers the 40 million , every time
my estimate is a average , and it is what i would use , there are special variable's that may cause the vale to dip below the estimate , is it a tent peg , bore shot out , permeant alterations , missing original parts , painted , ect,,, but for the average legit SP1 i stand by my estimate
i eluded to something in my other post , you are looking at the SP1 rifle differently than a collector does , you keep reverting to functionality and features , collectors gravitate to weapons by scarceness , appreciation value , uniqueness , the plus minus attributes of the two groups is like comparing a formula one tire to a WW2 motorcycle tire
I agree that your example is a good one. However, I believe if the SP1 offered features that were not available with subsequent offerings, there would be far more than 500 people wanting those 12-15 rifles. Therefore, the market price of the SP1's would be even higher.
i was using 40 mill and 500 just as numbers to throw out , i thought 500 vs 40 mill was dramatic enough , obviously i do not know the exact numbers , , i also said i personally see 12 -15a year , i do not know how many i do not see , i was just illustrating the collection market vs the practical market , practical guys will always undervalue collectability because they are basing their value on their "personal practical needs" and they are use to paying this much for that and thats what things cost , the collector is passionate about their medium , i dont care if its hummels or SP1 rifles , they will place value on more of a "personal want"(not the word or phrase im looking for , im old and my brain locks up,lol) based generally on a number of things that determine the collectability to them , most die hard collectors of firearms generally have way more of what they hold close as collectables than they do of practical , not a hard rule of thumb , but more often then not their collection is vast and they will have a few personal protection firearms
"emotional" , collectors have a emotional factor
HK 91s and 93s lack several of the features of G3s and 33s, especially paddle magazine releases. Bayo mounts and grenade launch rings were removed and a completely wonky shelf was created to replace the push pins, but it doesn't seem to have harmed collector values in any way related to those firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret
Honestly this forum, and the few like it, are probably the only people that understand the Colt had different pin sizes over the years.
Back in the early 80s I owned SP1s and had lots of trigger time on M16A1s and except for the "big screw" I didn't even realize the pin sizes were different. I noticed the rocking sear vs the empty space on a SP1 but that was about it. Oh and SP1s didn't have a forward assist, not that I ever used it on the M16A1.
The H&K 91's and 93's are the closest thing that you can get to a real G3 and 33. If H&K started importing new complete H&K factory-built rifles that were identical in every respect to G3's and 33's except for the fun switch, it's my contention that it would impact the value of the 91's and 93's. I'm not saying that their values would necessarily go down, but the rate of future increase would certainly be impacted.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteyrAUG
Years ago, the only way to get a Yugo SKS was to buy one that Mitchell's had imported. The market price was around $1,200 before the Yugo surplus SKS's were imported. Then all of a sudden you could buy a new old stock military Yugo SKS for under $200. After this happened, I remember seeing a dealer at a gun show who had one of the Mitchell's Yugo SKS on his table for $1,200. Since the new old stock military Yugo SKS's were on multiple other dealer's tables for less than $200, I respectfully asked him what was different about the $1,200 one? He said that it was imported by Mitchell's and was therefore more desirable than the surplus ones being imported. Of course, the reality was that the one he was selling was close in most respects to a real military issue Yugo SKS, but there were some cosmetic differences. Yes, it was imported earlier, but in no way could it be considered more real than an actual Yugo military issued SKS. Reality is that the market had changed on the dealer quickly. He got stuck with something that he paid high dollars for and couldn't accept that he was going to have to take a loss to move it because from a collecting standpoint it was not more desirable than the real deal. If the other new old stock Yugo SKS's were not available, I might have bought the Mitchell imported one he was attempting to sell. However, there was no way that I was going to pay six times more for one that I view as less authentic.
I think one thing that originally made the SP1's desirable was at one time they were as close as you could get to a real full auto M4/M16. Subsequent Colt offerings were neutered versions of what people really wanted. If Colt released them today, they wouldn't sell at all except perhaps to people who have to have one of every Colt variation for their collection.
Double tap.
So you bring up an important point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret
There are two Maadi AKMs (not counting dumbhole stock versions), the old early 80s Steyr imports which were selling for about $1,200 when they came in (a LOT of money) and then the Century arms imports that came in late 90s (like those Yugo SKSs) which could be had for about $200.
What that actually did was make a lot of people who previously would never have purchased a Maadi AKM suddenly buy one. It didn't make those older Steyr imports less desirable or less valuable, they are still climbing in price because anyone who knows AKs knows what they are.
Same thing with those Yugo SKS rifles, the Mitchell imports will always be collectible / desirable, the only thing that really changed is the people who were never going to pay $1,200 for a Mitchell decided they would be willing to pay $200 for a CAI import.
You also see this with pre 68 imports. There was a time when CAI was bringing in German K98s for $150 or so and anyone with a brain grabbed one. But if you had a pre 68 import (almost all of which were veteran bring backs because Germany was forced to stop arms production of K98s ) those were selling for big money and will always be worth much more than any that came in after 1986.
There is simply a pedigree factor and that means something to collectors. Now shooters are a different breed. They won't even pay the cost of a Colt official reproduction, they will just buy a M-16 clone that is close enough and that can be done for about $800 for something pretty decent and reliable but with no collector value.
When it comes to vintage Colts, I want the actual rifle they offered at the time, which is the SP1. Now if I'm buying a transferable M-16 then I'm also wanting an original and have little interest in an AR-15 conversion. I'd rather pay the extra money for a factory original.
DP minimum
well stopped into my LGS while heading to my second install today , hadnt been in this shop for about a month , but it was on the way so i stopped , they had a SP1 in , not even a scuff on it ,set your beer down , $4K , i didnt even bother to as any questions like what all was included , but thats what they were asking , and i will be honest , it was too clean , which begs the question was it refinished
Usually pretty easy to tell. Roll marks won't be as sharp, finish almost certainly will be different than originals. But I have seen some "minty" SP1s and even some guys with some still NIB examples from the mid 70s that they have never fired. Most people won't try and fake a perfect condition SP1, it's too easy to spot and then you get nothing. And most guys are looking for one with just a little honest wear and patina.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopharted
that makes sense , maybe it is just cherry because the markings were crisp , it had a Park finish , on the receivers ,no way they should have put it on the racks crammed in wiith other rifles if thats the case , i will go back in a week to see if its still there ,curious how long it will take to sell at that price pointQuote:
Originally Posted by SteyrAUG
I've seen worse. Might take awhile to sell because they are gonna need a local buyer looking for an absolute mint one for a safe queen, and that buyer is gonna also want the original factory box and accessories at that price so I hope they have them. Everyone else is looking for one in really good condition but at a "give me" price.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopharted
The guys who buy NIB guns from the 70s and early 80s are few and far between. I have 9 factory HK 91 and G3 rifles (including FMP and Greek EBO imports) and I only have one unfired / new in the box / mint example of a 91 and that is only because the price was so good I couldn't pass it up and I knew the history of the rifle. Otherwise I typically look for the deals like everyone else.
If the SP1 is as clean as you say, I can see it going $2,800 - $3,200, I think $4,000 is a bit of a push unless they have everything that came with it. Of course they are probably listing high to leave a little room for negotiation so that they can arrive somewhere above $3,000 and the buyer still feel like he got a steal. Also we need to remember there are a few early SP1s that could easily command that price and if it happens to be one of those, they are just waiting on somebody who knows what it is and needs it.
I've had to accept that I'm not gonna build the complete Colt reference collection and I'm trying to be content with the important representative examples.
double double
I recently sold one close to your gun on GB, it was in the 76XX range which dates to 1966 production. It was a 98% gun that was just sitting in the safe. It went for just over $3500.