Interest in FAMAS G2 (NATO mags) with pic rail???
I think it would be pretty cool.
TED
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Interest in FAMAS G2 (NATO mags) with pic rail???
I think it would be pretty cool.
TED
Always thought the F1 took NATO magazines.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong!! Maybe there was a previous edition that also took NATO mags but I am fairly sure that the G2 takes NATO mags.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteyrAUG
TED
The F1 takes proprietary magazines and the G2 takes STANAG magazines.
Was more of a question than a statement. I actually like the profile of the original rifle to the current one, but neither would be worth my time. I remember seeing the F1 in person on Bastille Day in 1984. First time I ever saw a real bullpup up close.Quote:
Originally Posted by TED
The other thing that was amazing was the willingness of the French to literally destroy their roads in order to parade tanks down the street. They were actually chewing up the asphalt and leaving tank tracks in the road that were 4-6 inches deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteyrAUG
Way cool, did you happen to see the Foreign Legion Pioneers march in the parade (they would have been bearded gents wearing ceremonial leather aprons and carrying axes)?
They were probably there, but I wouldn't have known what to look for and don't recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle
I'm on another continent than where my home is, so don't have reference to my gun books. But memory says that the F1 was rifled to accurately shoot 55-grain 5.56 bullets, just as NATO was fixin' to standardize on 62-grain bullets. So the French had to keep shooting non-NATO rounds using non-NATO magazines.
Eventually those guns needed replacement and the French got STANAG religion and ended up with some number of the G2 version. Which were built for NATO magazines and the NATO 5.56 rounds. But then they just did away with their own small-arms development and have started replacing all FAMAS with the H&K 416.
Bart Noir
To stoke the bullpup salivation, let me remind you of the 2017 stories of the Aussie bullpup coming to the US market. There were multiple stories of Lithgow USA selling semi-auto versions or the Lithgow F90 ATRAX soon, very soon, early 2017.
Follow by total radio silence. Nada. No reports of any further progress on that. But we can hope.
Oh well, SHOT Show 2019?
Bart Noir
Only the navy bought any G2 rifles. Total G2 production was around 20k out of the near 400k Famas rifles made. The army modernized their F1 guns but the 25rd proprietary magazines and 1-12 twist barrels remained. I have heard it parroted that they need steel case to run but I have never seen a French Soldier with anything but brass, those that I have talked to have seen nothing but brass, ATK is the french supplier for 5.56 which to my knowledge does not have the capacity to produce steel cased rifle ammo on that scale, and I have been unable to find a photo of french steel cased ammo googling in both english or french, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Noir
The Famas is a good rifle(quirks aside) but because it is French it is sometimes hard to have a meaningful discussion about it. For better or worse french things are usually distinctly French and the Famas is no exception.
It is unlikely but if we get the kits I will snatch some up.
We aren't missing anything, the Aussie F88/F90 is a low budget version of the AUG with a poor service record. Why would anyone just not buy an AUG A3? I'd be more interested in an Aussie L1A1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Noir
I found the weight savings of the Lithgow attractive. What was wrong with the Aussie AUGs? Bad QC? I seem to remember reading rumors, but never details.
I'd buy an F2 Famas, particularly with a pic rail. Watching Ian McCollum on Forgotten weapons has really sparked an interest in me for post WW2 French small arms. The Famas and an ownable version of the AA-52 machinegun would both interest me. The only detail that bugs me is that both weapons apparently need steel case ammunition.
My experience with Wolf and Barnaul .223 is that it wore out a barrel roughly 3-4x faster than any brass case ammunition would have, so I won't use it in anything with a expensive or hard to replace barrel anymore. My best guess on that, with a couple of sources for reference, is the powder the Russians use is the primary culprit. I think it's a powder with a higher flame temp, like most stick powders stateside. Faster throat erosion.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...el-cased-ammo/
I can't find the other reference after 15 minutes of googling, but it was here on M4carbine. A guy made a long post in the general AR or technical forum about a mid 20th century test performed by the US military. It was testing .30 ball or 7.62x51 in machine gun barrels and showed the difference in barrel life between steel jacketed and copper jacketed projectiles. It turned out that, while the failure mode was different between steel jacket and copper jacket, the biggest factor in barrel life was the powder, not the projectile. Ball powder resulted in barrels lasting twice as long until failure. They found the culprit with the powders was the higher flame temperature of the stick powder. I believe it even gave the names of the powders used. The stick powder was IMR. Ball powder was modern 7.62 canister powder, IIRC. WC something. Copper jackets failed the velocity threshold, but were still in spec for group size, the steel jackets failed by exceeding max spec group size. IIRC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries144
I have heard it parroted (by both Vickers and McCullum, both of which also say their guns shoot well with brass)that they need steel case to run but I have never seen a French Soldier with anything but brass, those that I have talked to have seen nothing but brass, ATK is the french supplier for 5.56 which to my knowledge does not have the capacity to produce steel cased rifle ammo on that scale, and I have been unable to find a photo of french steel cased ammo googling in both english or french, so...
The whole steel case thing seems to stem from a TFB article with no sources. A publication known for its accuracy and strict journalistic standards..
Basically yes. The F88 specifically, don't know if anything was remedied with the F90 but I wouldn't want to bet on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries144
Interesting! Thank you Steyr. Thank you Ski.
The FAMAS I fingered in Afghanistan (10 years ago) all were loaded with steel cased ammo, appeared to be 55 gr as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_ski