Hornady 9mm XTP ongoing experiments

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01-18-23, 22:09
Waylander

Hornady 9mm XTP ongoing experiments

https://i.ibb.co/hFbfL04/57994-A2-B-...4-BA308055.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/R002sjS/27-B4-A9-E8...E45-AF3482.jpg

I loaded Hornady 124 grain XTP behind 6.8 grains of Accurate #7 with CCI 500 small pistol primers. This is about half way between the min and max load for this bullet.

The rounds were fired in a CZ P10C with a 4” barrel at 25 yards each through two 5 gallon buckets of water center mass and exited directly into the ground behind about 1-2”. The retained weights are 120.9 grains and 117.7 grains.

Sorry I don’t have a chronograph. In my next test I plan on adding layers of denim.

ETA:
I really started this thread as just experimenting and getting a few data points. I had some 124 and 147 XTPs lying around for nearly 10 years. I don’t intend for this to be proof of much of anything especially considering I don’t have ballistics gel or large cuts of meat.

I was a little impressed at a midrange load the bullets were able to penetrate water as far as they did and still expand well. I plan to tweak the charge a little and also add my 147 grain XTP to the mix.
01-19-23, 13:31
gaijin

XTPs we’re always pretty good bullets; nearly always better than most accurate, could count on them to penetrate.
Opening up was occasionally iffy. No clue if they still list the recommended expansion velocity recommendation, but I’d adhere to that if they do.
P
I was using 300 gr .45 XTPs in a custom 5.5” Ruger Bisley (.45 Colt) 20+ yrs back on a Hog hunt.
Shot a Monster Feral hog that weighed over 450 lbs. The rounds were loaded/chrono’d at 1200 fps.
I had three FEET of penetration with two of the four rds. fired, the bullets may as well have been FMJ; none expanded.
They were exceptionally accurate however.
I switched to WFNGC (Wide Flat Nose Gas Check- cast bullet) and KTSWC (Kieth Type Semi Wad Cutter) after that experience.
The complete lack of expansion may have been due to the heavy for caliber bullet, but they were not .454 Cassull bullets.
The listed expansion envelope was 1,000-1,300 fps from memory.
01-19-23, 14:53
Ron3

Yea, that's what they do.

Hornady's velocity numbers aren't very accurate for many of their XTP's

For example, I recall them listing the .357 158 gr bullet window as 750 - 1400 fps IIRC. That bullet doesn't even think about expanding until 1050 fps. 750 is just a lie.

The 9mm 147 gr XTP is excellent if pushed fast enough. As in 1100 fps and up. Great choice in .357 sig. Hornady's own .357 load will do 1175-1225 fps.

Heavy cloth prevents expansion more so than newer designs.
01-19-23, 18:51
Waylander

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin

XTPs we’re always pretty good bullets; nearly always better than most accurate, could count on them to penetrate.
Opening up was occasionally iffy. No clue if they still list the recommended expansion velocity recommendation, but I’d adhere to that if they do.
P
I was using 300 gr .45 XTPs in a custom 5.5” Ruger Bisley (.45 Colt) 20+ yrs back on a Hog hunt.
Shot a Monster Feral hog that weighed over 450 lbs. The rounds were loaded/chrono’d at 1200 fps.
I had three FEET of penetration with two of the four rds. fired, the bullets may as well have been FMJ; none expanded.
They were exceptionally accurate however.
I switched to WFNGC (Wide Flat Nose Gas Check- cast bullet) and KTSWC (Kieth Type Semi Wad Cutter) after that experience.
The complete lack of expansion may have been due to the heavy for caliber bullet, but they were not .454 Cassull bullets.
The listed expansion envelope was 1,000-1,300 fps from memory.

I’d read about issues with the XTP not expanding but mainly around clothing. That’s one reason I want to run some more tests. I hadn’t read much about failing in game but I wasn’t really looking for that. At high velocities I’d expect them to penetrate more not less other than maybe hitting bone. I wouldn’t expect the thick tough skin of a hog to slow a bullet that big down that much. Did they fragment?
I’ve read some anecdotes of the XTP expanding more starting at the low end of Hornady’s suggested velocities but I’m sure that could also depend on the material being shot.
01-19-23, 21:28
Todd.K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waylander

At high velocities I’d expect them to penetrate more not less other than maybe hitting bone.

Higher velocity is more likely to expand/fully expand. More expansion causes more drag and thus less penetration.

Water is a poor choice for expansion testing, it’s higher density will show expansion that you won’t get in gel or tissue.

The windshield barrier test is supposed to be a good indicator of performance against heavy bone.
01-19-23, 21:43
Waylander

Hornady 9mm 124 grain XTP recovered slugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd.K

Higher velocity is more likely to expand/fully expand. More expansion causes more drag and thus less penetration.

I’m aware of expansion and drag limiting penetration.

<s>gaijin bullets didn’t expand so I stated I would expect more penetration.</s>
Never mind. I’m a special ed reader.
01-20-23, 09:59
gaijin

No expansion was observed in recovered bullets, simply deformation.
And they penetrated exceptionally deeply. The hide and bones on the Hog mentioned were fairly thick/massive.
01-20-23, 10:06
Waylander

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin

No expansion was observed in recovered bullets, simply deformation.
And they penetrated exceptionally deeply. The hide and bones on the Hog mentioned were fairly thick/massive.

Sorry I guess my reading comprehension skills are lacking lately. I read three inches which should’ve been a clue. Great start to my new thread! :rolleyes:
01-20-23, 17:54
vicious_cb

Those bullets look pretty beat up for just water jugs, asymmetrical expansion and what looks like chipping on the petals looks more like it went thru auto glass first. Water should be the ideal medium for expansion with bullets looking like they came out of the catalog book, not looking they were shot through auto glass. This kind of mirrors what I think of about XTP bullets, they suck unless you use them for BUGs where the fact that they suck at expansion actually aids the weaker weaker BUG loads in penetrating.
01-20-23, 18:03
Straight Shooter

Every factory Hornady load Ive ever chronoed was not near whats advertised on the box.
Some were way off. Ive posted some info here before on this.
01-21-23, 10:13
1168

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicious_cb

Those bullets look pretty beat up for just water jugs, asymmetrical expansion and what looks like chipping on the petals looks more like it went thru auto glass first. Water should be the ideal medium for expansion with bullets looking like they came out of the catalog book, not looking they were shot through auto glass. This kind of mirrors what I think of about XTP bullets, they suck unless you use them for BUGs where the fact that they suck at expansion actually aids the weaker weaker BUG loads in penetrating.

XTPs (and Critical Duty to a lesser extent) are infamous for needing a bit extra velocity to work well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straight Shooter

Every factory Hornady load Ive ever chronoed was not near whats advertised on the box.
Some were way off. Ive posted some info here before on this.

And paradoxically, Hornady factory ammo always seems a bit on the light side. I normally feel that +p is unnecessary, but……
01-21-23, 19:01
Ron3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straight Shooter

Every factory Hornady load Ive ever chronoed was not near whats advertised on the box.
Some were way off. Ive posted some info here before on this.

I've shot 10mm that was, and .357 sig. .357 mag Critical Duty was very close, too.

But everything else, especially 9x19, yea, slower than even the mild advertised velocities. This includes their +p ammo.
01-21-23, 23:13
Straight Shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron3

I've shot 10mm that was, and .357 sig. .357 mag Critical Duty was very close, too.

But everything else, especially 9x19, yea, slower than even the mild advertised velocities. This includes their +p ammo.

My experience is with 9mm & .45 ACP. Yes, the +P loads in those too were slow.
01-22-23, 07:33
ST911

The XTPs feed and fly very well. Depending on the particular bullet and loading, they're reliable in some guns when other JHPs aren't. Older/conventional tech bullet but an great one. They do seem to have a velocity window they prefer by barrier.

In several shootings, 9mm 147s, fast 124s, and 40 180s removed from people in street clothes opened wide and penetrated deep.
01-22-23, 14:18
C-grunt

I can recall a few shootings using XTP bullets. Couldn't tell you the manufacturer of the round or the guns used anymore though. They tend to have mediocre expansion and lots of penetration. I wouldn't trade out Gold Dots or HSTs for them, but I wouldn't feel bad about carrying it either. I think it would be a decent "woods" gun round that would give you a good mix of expansion and penetration for both two legged and 4 legged threats.
01-22-23, 23:10
Ron3

I agree they tend to be very accurate and feed well.

While they arent big expanders they do turn themselves into a wadcutter-like shape. That's a good thing.
01-23-23, 10:46
Waylander

Appreciate all the knowledgeable comments. I plan to raise the velocity to see if they open up better and hopefully get a chronograph by the next range trip. I’ll probably add some barriers just to see what happens. At worst I can keep these for BUG rounds as vicious_cb mentioned.
01-23-23, 21:53
Ron3

oops..wrong quote
01-23-23, 21:55
Ron3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waylander

Appreciate all the knowledgeable comments. I plan to raise the velocity to see if they open up better and hopefully get a chronograph by the next range trip. I’ll probably add some barriers just to see what happens. At worst I can keep these for BUG rounds as vicious_cb mentioned.

Isn't #7 a little slow for your 4 inch barrel? Maybe #5 or CFE-P or similar would get you more velocity?
01-23-23, 22:50
DG23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron3

Isn't #7 a little slow for your 4 inch barrel? Maybe #5 or CFE-P or similar would get you more velocity?

Not at all.

Especially so if he is looking for the most speed he can get at the lowest pressures...

He is on the money with respect to the powder and bullets both being able to handle a LOT of speed.
01-23-23, 23:42
Waylander

Hornady 9mm XTP ongoing experiments

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron3

Isn't #7 a little slow for your 4 inch barrel? Maybe #5 or CFE-P or similar would get you more velocity?

CFE Pistol and #7 are the only powers the Hornady manual lists that will safely push the 124 XTP to 1150 fps. The case will be slam full with #7 but it will work. #5 pressure maxes out at about 1075 fps.
01-24-23, 00:28
Ron3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waylander

CFE Pistol and #7 are the only powers the Hornady manual lists that will safely push the 124 XTP to 1150 fps. The case will be slam full with #7 but it will work. #5 pressure maxes out at about 1075 fps.

I see.

So you just need another inch of barrel. :)
01-24-23, 11:42
Waylander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron3

I see.

So you just need another inch of barrel. :)

Even Hodgdon lists 124 XTP with 7.4 grains of #7 out of a 4 inch barrel at 1144 fps. I’m not sure why you’re splitting hairs over this.
01-24-23, 22:12
DG23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waylander

Even Hodgdon lists 124 XTP with 7.4 grains of #7 out of a 4 inch barrel at 1144 fps. I’m not sure why you’re splitting hairs over this.

Western Powders lists the 124 XTP in 9mm at 7.3 grains of AA#7 at (their max for regular 9mm loads) 1150fps / 34750psi. Sadly their 9mm+p data does not show that particular bullet with AA#7. The Speer GD in that weight they show going up to 7.9 grains in the +p data with that powder so I would guess you have a little room to play with here if your firearm is able to fire +p 9mm rounds safely.

They do not specify barrel length or firearm used for testing.
01-25-23, 07:33
1168

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG23

Western Powders lists the 124 XTP in 9mm at 7.3 grains of AA#7 at (their max for regular 9mm loads) 1150fps / 34750psi. Sadly their 9mm+p data does not show that particular bullet with AA#7. The Speer GD in that weight they show going up to 7.9 grains in the +p data with that powder so I would guess you have a little room to play with here if your firearm is able to fire +p 9mm rounds safely.

They do not specify barrel length or firearm used for testing.

Western #1 lists that exact data, using a 4” barrel. It does not specify if its a universal receiver, or a real gun. It looks like they used the standard barrel length for most cartridges and don’t mention firearm for them, and has a picture of a universal receiver in one of the sections, so I suspect they used a universal receiver for all of their data.
01-25-23, 18:37
Waylander

Hornady 9mm XTP ongoing experiments

Hornady manual

Quote:

S & W Model 39
4", 1 in 10" Twist Hornady/Frontier Winchester WSP

Powders that worked exceptionally well in our test weapon were Accurate #7, and Alliant Power Pistol.
Velocity differences between 4" and 5" barrels were negligible.

What’s interesting is they show a larger max charge of 7.9 grains Accurate #7 only pushing to 1150 and from what I understand, their recommended max loads are usually on the conservative side.