New Army PT Test

Should be interesting to see what the results are testing it on 60 battalions across every unit type:

A new Army PT test is on its way. This is not a drill.

Ding dong, the Army Physical Fitness Test is almost dead.

Yes, a new fitness test is here, but don’t panic: It’ll be a couple more years before you’re taking it for the record.

Army officials unveiled a new gender- and age-neutral PT test on Monday, and it’s set to replace the run/sit-ups/push-ups protocol that soldiers have known and hated for the past four decades.

The new test is expected to be rolled out by late 2020.

The reason for that, the head of the Center for Initial Military Training told Army Times in a Friday phone interview, is an upcoming year-long field study to determine how to grade the new six-event Army Combat Fitness Test, and how it will affect personnel policies like promotions and separations.

That study will begin this October, Maj. Gen. Malcolm Frost said, bringing the new regimen to about 60 battalions across every unit type in the Army.

“This is a generational, cultural change in fitness for the United States Army, and will be a cornerstone of individual soldier combat readiness,” Frost said. “That’s how big this is for the Army.”


This is what the test will look like:

Deadlift between 120 and 420 pounds, depending on the individual soldier. You must do three reps in five minutes.
Two-minute rest.
Standing power throw. You’ll be required to toss a 10-pound medicine ball overhead and backward. You’ll have three minutes to make one practice throw and two for a grade. The longest distance is recorded.
Two-minute rest.
Hand-release push-ups. You lower your chest to the floor and lift your hands off the ground between each rep. You’ll be required to do the most reps in three minutes.
Two-minute rest.
Sprint-drag-carry. In four minutes, you will go 25 meters out and 25 meters back five times. Each iteration will include a different activity: sprint, drag a sled, run a lateral shuffle, carry two 40-pound kettle bells, then sprint again.
Two-minute rest.
Leg tuck. You will be required to hang from a pull-up bar and with your body parallel, then pull knees to your elbows for as many reps as possible in two minutes.
Five-minute rest.
Two-mile run on a track or a paved, level road, with a 20-minute maximum.

All told, the ACFT predicts with 80 percent accuracy whether a soldier will be effective in combat, Frost said, compared with 40 percent for the APFT.

Cont:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-..._medium=social

I read the requirements and thought... Crossfit.

Is this going to be a two day long event for an Tank Company?
The three event test usually took 1/4 of the day to complete and this is quite a few more events and stations. I'm guessing this will turn in to a goats screw and no one will be doing it right for the first 18 months.

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Originally Posted by grnamin

I read the requirements and thought... Crossfit.

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It's cross training, a type of training CF pretends it invented. Been around for ever, and there's productive/beneficial versions, and a bunch of unrelated injury producing BS. I'll leave it to others to decide which of those is CF...Does not seem a bad choice of stuff they chose at least and more "functional" than the the run/sit-ups/push-ups protocol. I'd think that run should be replaced with a ruck march of some sort as more job specific challenge.

Doesn’t sound at all like CrossFit to me. The article I read said there will be one master clock running for 50 minutes I think, everything will get done in that time apparently. I’m surprised at the weight on the deadlift and curious to see how it gets scored.


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Good luck rounding up all that gear theyre calling for, sleds, kettle bells, medicine balls, pull up bars etc. I see lots of waivers and alternate authorized events on the horizon.

The end bit about how effective they predict that the new PT test will be at predicting the combat effectiveness of troops I find humorous... how did they come up with that? Seems like theyre trying to decorate the whole idea with positive but nonsense statistics.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by sgtrock82

Good luck rounding up all that gear theyre calling for, sleds, kettle bells, medicine balls, pull up bars etc. I see lots of waivers and alternate authorized events on the horizon.

The end bit about how effective they predict that the new PT test will be at predicting the combat effectiveness of troops I find humorous... how did they come up with that? Seems like theyre trying to decorate the whole idea with positive but nonsense statistics.

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The only cure for all of that turning in to some real PITA drama would be to have a Brigade level team with all of the equipment and a designated space to conduct the test.
Otherwise, this is going goat screw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sgtrock82

Good luck rounding up all that gear theyre calling for, sleds, kettle bells, medicine balls, pull up bars etc. I see lots of waivers and alternate authorized events on the horizon.

The end bit about how effective they predict that the new PT test will be at predicting the combat effectiveness of troops I find humorous... how did they come up with that? Seems like theyre trying to decorate the whole idea with positive but nonsense statistics.

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Another article I read recently was the Army was hiring new trainers, nutritionists, etc. I don't recall their mentioning it was in line with this new PT test, but perhaps funding for those specific testing tools are included. If the sleds, balls, etc don't exist (none of which are expensive or difficult to move) then obviously it will be a cluster real fast. But, gotta start some place and this seems a step in the right direction at least. I'm sure some lessons will be learned the hard way via this 60 battalion cross unit test phase.

This will die in its infancy.

Too complex to implement at the company level to a bunch of young soldiers in anything resembling a timely manner.

Also too equipment intensive.

Also too technique intensive, particularly the deadlift. Not hard to do safely with some coaching of individual form, but we all know that isn’t going to happen. So injuries will pile up as young dudes who’ve never pulled before try to jerk 300+lbs off the deck with a rounded back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coal Dragger

This will die in its infancy.

Too complex to implement at the company level to a bunch of young soldiers in anything resembling a timely manner.

Also too equipment intensive.

Also too technique intensive, particularly the deadlift. Not hard to do safely with some coaching of individual form, but we all know that isn’t going to happen. So injuries will pile up as young dudes who’ve never pulled before try to jerk 300+lbs off the deck with a rounded back.

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I believe it's a trap bar dead, so much less form intensive at least.

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Originally Posted by WillBrink

I believe it's a trap bar dead, so much less form intensive at least.

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It is, hopefully to minimize injury. I don’t see this going anywhere, at least not until the full year long trial period is over. A lot of BNs already have a good amount of equipment so it really wouldn’t take that much more.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by WillBrink

All told, the ACFT predicts with 80 percent accuracy whether a soldier will be effective in combat, Frost said, compared with 40 percent for the APFT.

Cont:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-..._medium=social

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I think the above quote is probably a true statement. If a unit has their logistics and command and control down good enough to complete this test in 50 minutes they’ve got their act together. David

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Originally Posted by dwhitehorne

I think the above quote is probably a true statement. If a unit has their logistics and command and control down good enough to complete this test in 50 minutes they’ve got their act together. David

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Its been a while but I recall the old 3 event PT test took 2-2.5 hrs to get a smaller sized company done and it required no eqipment or measuring. It was also retarded simple.

I know to civilians having this equipment on hand sounds like a simple concept and easily affordable, managable by any half assed cross fit operation.... up but it only belies a true misunderstanding about how things in the army really work. None of these thing will be findable when needed and certainly not in the quantities needed to do this in a timely organized fashion. This stuff will also have to available for regular morning PT and miraculously not go missing. If the equipment was kept in the hands of a higher power, say TASC (if such still exists, its were we got training aids etc. from) then you will sign for 1) old ammo can with 4)beat up stop watches,2) stop watch batteries 1) dollar store tape measure, 3)broken pencils and 2)rubber play ground balls, one dry rotted and the other with a dick drawn on it.

(*note, when YOU turn it in the dick has to be gone)

Id venture a guess that on any given week day morning at Ft. Bragg there were at least a dozen PT tests going on in division area. A PT test administrating staff would have to be nearly battalion sized on its own. A whole new level of POG will rise from the primordial ooze. They would have to go nuts just building more chin up bars. Our battalion area had two sets of 2 chin up bars... and not near each other. Talk about a bottle neck in the process.

Army fitness might be dated but isnt the problem, we kicked alot of ass before medicine balls. Americas recent crops of weak willed lazy kids and a lack of gruelling disciplinary push ups is.

Its not impossible, its just brimming with hang ups and I seriously doubt it will have much impact beyond its own cumbersome implementation. It will be the ACU of PT tests, with glowing OERs soon to follow.



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Originally Posted by sgtrock82

Army fitness might be dated but isnt the problem, we kicked alot of ass before medicine balls. Americas recent crops of weak willed lazy kids and a lack of gruelling disciplinary push ups is.

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Bwaha ha ha. Truth bomb bitches!

Here's an excellent article by one of the best strength coaches in the game - Stew Smith- via Military.com on related topic:

PT Tests Evolve Into Functional Combat Fitness Training

Maybe it is 15 years of war or understanding the physiology and occupational health of the military athlete better over the past decade, but training the tactical athlete has evolved significantly. Big changes in the military do not happen overnight—especially with a PT program that is 30-40 years old. Think of the Department of Defense like an elephant. You may be able to clip its toenails, but getting it to change direction requires a little more time and effort.

The transition from the standard health and fitness test the military has used for decades have slowly evolved with minor changes in standards, form of exercises tested, and testing out new exercises for men and women. Even these standard changes take time to implement. Creating a completely different combat fitness related (functional) test with new exercises and training goals is progressing nicely in many of our branches of service. Some will argue—not fast enough; but patience and testing seems to be winning out in the favor and new and creative thinking with fitness testing.

Cont:

https://www.military.com/military-fi...tness-training

Great. All the salty guys are now going to have even MORE events to aggravate their injuries...

I severely damaged my left labrum a few years ago. I can push just fine, but have no desire to do stop-and-go push-ups, fling things backwards, or hang off of stuff unless needed. I do train to same muscle groups with an emphasis on taking care of previously injured areas, but wonder if we didn't just trade the sit-ups for a whole bunch of other problems. (FWIW, I usually attain 100pts/100pts/80pts on the APFT events)

I know things have to be measurable, but I was hoping for the Army to pick a more individualized approach. I feel like this will just turn into another form of training for a test vs training for fitness.

There used to be a five event PT test before my time.

I entered during the 3 event PT test.
Shortly after, they made it much harder for a young guy like I was then to max it.
Then as I got older, the next update was to make it easier for a young guy to pass it but harder for an older guy to do well on it.

All three versions had ridiculously easy run times for women compared to men.

For my last ten years or so in, if I had been king for a day, I would have made a one event PT test.

Put on a 40 pound ruck. Go four miles. If it took over an hour you failed. If you did it in under an hour you passed. Under 40 minutes you were a stud. Under 32 minutes you were a super stud.

The emotional investment to a two mile run exhibiting prowess is fuktarded. It is not a pure speed or explosive strength measure. It is not an endurance measure. It measures nothing about moving in combat equipment. Having two different standards with wildy different standards was even more fuktarded.

There would be two additional events that qualified you to any MOS or position that qualified you for combat arms, leaving the wire, etc.

Climb a 20 for rope. Arms only or using feet, whatever. Just climb it. Regardless of size or strength this exhibits the ability to climb out of a rolled over Pandur, Stryker, aircraft, etc. The ability to climb a ladder and get on a roof, climb over a wall, etc.

Pick up or drag a 180# mannequin 100m in under a minute.

Period. Done deal.

I have seen 130 pounders crush monsters in pushups, same with in real world events despite their ten minute two miler ranking them likes gods in comparison to the monster’s 12 minute or 14 minute two miler.

I have seen an endless parade of women that max their PT test, run triathlons, and “be really good at CrossFit” with monk like fitness dedicated lifestyles who are in the top percentiles of their age and size struggle to hang with totally average guys their age and size that dip, smoke, binge drink on the weekend, and eat like trailer trash, and struggle worse and worse as the days go on.

What is so hard about blocking off a four mile route, putting a scale at the start, having a stop watch, showing up in a uniform with a ruck, and scheduling an hour for a one event test?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coal Dragger

This will die in its infancy.

Too complex to implement at the company level to a bunch of young soldiers in anything resembling a timely manner.

Also too equipment intensive.

Also too technique intensive, particularly the deadlift. Not hard to do safely with some coaching of individual form, but we all know that isn’t going to happen. So injuries will pile up as young dudes who’ve never pulled before try to jerk 300+lbs off the deck with a rounded back.

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Technique intensive was my first thought concerning the deadlift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ramairthree

There used to be a five event PT test before my time.

I entered during the 3 event PT test.
Shortly after, they made it much harder for a young guy like I was then to max it.
Then as I got older, the next update was to make it easier for a young guy to pass it but harder for an older guy to do well on it.

All three versions had ridiculously easy run times for women compared to men.

For my last ten years or so in, if I had been king for a day, I would have made a one event PT test.

Put on a 40 pound ruck. Go four miles. If it took over an hour you failed. If you did it in under an hour you passed. Under 40 minutes you were a stud. Under 32 minutes you were a super stud.

The emotional investment to a two mile run exhibiting prowess is fuktarded. It is not a pure speed or explosive strength measure. It is not an endurance measure. It measures nothing about moving in combat equipment. Having two different standards with wildy different standards was even more fuktarded.

There would be two additional events that qualified you to any MOS or position that qualified you for combat arms, leaving the wire, etc.

Climb a 20 for rope. Arms only or using feet, whatever. Just climb it. Regardless of size or strength this exhibits the ability to climb out of a rolled over Pandur, Stryker, aircraft, etc. The ability to climb a ladder and get on a roof, climb over a wall, etc.

Pick up or drag a 180# mannequin 100m in under a minute.

Period. Done deal.

I have seen 130 pounders crush monsters in pushups, same with in real world events despite their ten minute two miler ranking them likes gods in comparison to the monster’s 12 minute or 14 minute two miler.

I have seen an endless parade of women that max their PT test, run triathlons, and “be really good at CrossFit” with monk like fitness dedicated lifestyles who are in the top percentiles of their age and size struggle to hang with totally average guys their age and size that dip, smoke, binge drink on the weekend, and eat like trailer trash, and struggle worse and worse as the days go on.

What is so hard about blocking off a four mile route, putting a scale at the start, having a stop watch, showing up in a uniform with a ruck, and scheduling an hour for a one event test?

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Is there even a point to the scale anymore if a person can climb the rope and then pass the ruck?

The only point of the scale is to make sure the ruck is not too light.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ramairthree

The only point of the scale is to make sure the ruck is not too light.

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Oh. Gotcha.

Coming from the officer ranks, and ROTC, the current program for Military Science 3 contract cadets (Junior year of college) is to pass the APFT monthly. In the Senior Military schools like VMI, Citadel, etc. these contracted cadets do a 12 mile ruck (35 lbs dry weight) each Friday. This is prep for Cadet Summer Training at Fort Knox. During the 31 days at Knox now, two weeks are spent solely in the field for an extended FTX. The last requirement to pass is the 12 mile ruck with the weight mentioned before in 4 hours or less. If you do it in 3 hours you meet one of the requirements for the RECONDO badge. To prevent elevated failure levels, they start the 12 mile ruck at 2am and the coolest time of day.

The new head of Cadet Command is a friend of mine from my old aviation regiment and I'll be at Fort Knox the end of this month as his guest. I did ROTC basic camp in 1978 and advanced camp in 1979, both times at Knox.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sgtrock82

If the equipment was kept in the hands of a higher power, say TASC (if such still exists, its were we got training aids etc. from) then you will sign for 1) old ammo can with 4)beat up stop watches,2) stop watch batteries 1) dollar store tape measure, 3)broken pencils and 2)rubber play ground balls, one dry rotted and the other with a dick drawn on it.

(*note, when YOU turn it in the dick has to be gone)

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Awesome! And quoted for truth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OH58D

Coming from the officer ranks, and ROTC, the current program for Military Science 3 contract cadets (Junior year of college) is to pass the APFT monthly. In the Senior Military schools like VMI, Citadel, etc. these contracted cadets do a 12 mile ruck (35 lbs dry weight) each Friday. This is prep for Cadet Summer Training at Fort Knox. During the 31 days at Knox now, two weeks are spent solely in the field for an extended FTX. The last requirement to pass is the 12 mile ruck with the weight mentioned before in 4 hours or less. If you do it in 3 hours you meet one of the requirements for the RECONDO badge. To prevent elevated failure levels, they start the 12 mile ruck at 2am and the coolest time of day.

The new head of Cadet Command is a friend of mine from my old aviation regiment and I'll be at Fort Knox the end of this month as his guest. I did ROTC basic camp in 1978 and advanced camp in 1979, both times at Knox.

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Legit. That's why I enjoy this forum: BTDT crust sarcastic salty SOBs giving out the the no BS info to my surface level posts where I get to learn shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WillBrink

Legit. That's why I enjoy this forum: BTDT crust sarcastic salty SOBs giving out the the no BS info to my surface level posts where I get to learn shit.

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Even though I chase cows for a living now, I stay close to local JROTC programs (5th Brigade) and give lectures at some of the senior military academies. I'll be a Fort Knox for the 7th and 9th Regiment Advanced Camp graduations this Summer. I remember when I first did the Army APFT back in 1978, it was similar to the current test, but we also did an obstacle course and some kind of shuttle run. I had no intention of being a ground pounder so I started out in M.I. and "graduated" to Aviation. I hated marching.

My West Point son is doing Air Assault School now, so I'll ask his opinion about the new PT program when he's done next week. I can already guess he'll say 2 miles in 20 minutes will be easy. He plods along right now at about 13:30 for the two miles. He's averaging around 287-290 out of 300 on the APFT right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sgtrock82

Its been a while but I recall the old 3 event PT test took 2-2.5 hrs to get a smaller sized company done and it required no eqipment or measuring. It was also retarded simple.

I know to civilians having this equipment on hand sounds like a simple concept and easily affordable, managable by any half assed cross fit operation.... up but it only belies a true misunderstanding about how things in the army really work. None of these thing will be findable when needed and certainly not in the quantities needed to do this in a timely organized fashion. This stuff will also have to available for regular morning PT and miraculously not go missing. If the equipment was kept in the hands of a higher power, say TASC (if such still exists, its were we got training aids etc. from) then you will sign for 1) old ammo can with 4)beat up stop watches,2) stop watch batteries 1) dollar store tape measure, 3)broken pencils and 2)rubber play ground balls, one dry rotted and the other with a dick drawn on it.

(*note, when YOU turn it in the dick has to be gone)

Id venture a guess that on any given week day morning at Ft. Bragg there were at least a dozen PT tests going on in division area. A PT test administrating staff would have to be nearly battalion sized on its own. A whole new level of POG will rise from the primordial ooze. They would have to go nuts just building more chin up bars. Our battalion area had two sets of 2 chin up bars... and not near each other. Talk about a bottle neck in the process.

Army fitness might be dated but isnt the problem, we kicked alot of ass before medicine balls. Americas recent crops of weak willed lazy kids and a lack of gruelling disciplinary push ups is.

Its not impossible, its just brimming with hang ups and I seriously doubt it will have much impact beyond its own cumbersome implementation. It will be the ACU of PT tests, with glowing OERs soon to follow.



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This is absolutely spot on. I could not have said it better myself. Nailed it

Looking at this, I keep remembering how hard I tried to maintain consecutive 300 scores. I also remember having a lower back that was wrecked by various combat and noncombat activities.
If you would have told me I had to do some sort of deadlift and the max was "X" amount of pounds, I would have loaded the maximum and lifted that SOB, even if it further wrecked my back. I was that hard headed.
I keep hearing about the Army experimenting with a number of new ideas such as closer medical attention, improved PT, even to the point of having Physical Therapists on hand for help. I'm just guessing that if you implement something that has the potential to further damage already damaged bodies, we're screwed, we will lose a lot more guys getting out on medicals than we can afford to lose as legacy experience.
The whole cart before the horse thing needs to be closely monitored, very closely. A sixty to seventy five man Tank Company isn't going to be able to pull this off on their own as things are currently configured.
Dick drawn on the medicine ball or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Averageman

Looking at this, I keep remembering how hard I tried to maintain consecutive 300 scores. I also remember having a lower back that was wrecked by various combat and noncombat activities.

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In my last year before retirement, we had a CSM (late 40's at the time) with the 101st AB who said the day he couldn't max the APFT, he would retire. He was a real hard-charger and a man of his word. On his last test he scored something like a 290 because of progressive arthritis in his knee. He retired at 23 years.

This new test is age neutral, so I guess the standards remain constant even with age progression? I wonder if this is designed to reduce the number of retirees over a period of time? Certainly this means field grade officers are going to invest more time in their own fitness. I've also seen plenty of senior non-comms put on weight in MOS's in the service support and combat service support fields.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taekwondopreacher

Great. All the salty guys are now going to have even MORE events to aggravate their injuries...

I severely damaged my left labrum a few years ago. I can push just fine, but have no desire to do stop-and-go push-ups, fling things backwards, or hang off of stuff unless needed. I do train to same muscle groups with an emphasis on taking care of previously injured areas, but wonder if we didn't just trade the sit-ups for a whole bunch of other problems. (FWIW, I usually attain 100pts/100pts/80pts on the APFT events)

I know things have to be measurable, but I was hoping for the Army to pick a more individualized approach. I feel like this will just turn into another form of training for a test vs training for fitness.

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Agreed there. I had surgery on a jacked up cartilage labrum several years ago, for some reason hand release pushups are one of the few things that still bother it.

I do agree with setting one standard for everyone to meet. Establishing different standards for different genders is counterproductive to team building.

I would think that everyone in the U.S. Army should be able to fill the role of rifleman, regardless of specialty. If it hits the fan, a technician may have to fill the role of rifleman. Determine what the job requires and set a standard for meeting that requirement. It may require some of the technical types to hit the gym more often than they do now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ramairthree

....

For my last ten years or so in, if I had been king for a day, I would have made a one event PT test.

Put on a 40 pound ruck. Go four miles. If it took over an hour you failed. If you did it in under an hour you passed. Under 40 minutes you were a stud. Under 32 minutes you were a super stud.

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This. Oh, so very this.

And absolutely do it in the rain, sunshine, mud, sleet, snow, sharknado, etc. Unless you have no-shit lightning hitting the ground or a typhoon flinging POV's across the parking lot, it goes.

And you go.

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Originally Posted by T2C

I do agree with setting one standard for everyone to meet. Establishing different standards for different genders is counterproductive to team building.

I would think that everyone in the U.S. Army should be able to fill the role of rifleman, regardless of specialty. If it hits the fan, a technician may have to fill the role of rifleman. Determine what the job requires and set a standard for meeting that requirement. It may require some of the technical types to hit the gym more often than they do now.

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It would require so much more than that.

With all those events, the only thing I am thinking is..."first call, 0200"