Originally Posted by
ECVMatt
I am kind of a .357 Rifle freak and have about five rifles in that caliber. The Ruger 77/357 and my Marlin 1894CP are the two I like the best. Because the Marlin is almost irreplaceable right now, I take the Ruger out more often. I have also set up a very low key Marlin 336 JM with a 16" barrel for car travels and camping. It has all the range I need, plenty of power, and very rarely gets a second look. It anyone does ask about it, they seem to think that I am out with my great-grandfather's rifle for nostalgia. I love my AR's and use them when appropriate, but everyone should own a "on the down-low" rifle. The .30/30 really shines in this role, but the .357 has some good advantages as well. Here are some good thoughts from Veral Smith of LBT fame:
Veral's Book: "Jacked Performance With Cast bullets":
THIS is something Verryy Verryy practical ... and Extremely deadly!
Those 2 Antelope both dropped at 125 and 302 yards lazered w/ 1 round, each bullet through both shoulders/bones; complete shoot-through. This done with an old "pistol" cartridge. I've never seen a more Completely Efficient use of this cartridge. This System WORKS!
1. THE KEY to this whole system is casting the LBT 187 gr. WFN (Wide Flat Nose) gas check bullet ... Randy Garrett copied the exact bullet shape; his 540 gr. Hammerhead in .45-70 at 1550 fps. will shoot completely through an African Cape Buffalo and kill the one behind it.
If you DO NOT cast your own bullets at present, you CAN order this bullet from Cast Performance Bullets: --- HOWEVER: Cast Performance DOES NOT use LBT Lube, THEREFORE, users will run into pressure problems at lower temperatures and with lighter loads than when using LBT lube. Accuracy will not be as good either. Montana Bullet Works sells them lubed with LBT Commercial lube and they'll deliver top notch performance.
NO PROBLEM shooting clean through say 4 to 6 bad guys with this 187 gr. LBT bullet depending on circumstances, any bones hit, etc., as it has already shot lengthwise completely through Elk. This .357 Magnum system is in reality a "mini-mini Garret .45-70 type set up".
Research revealed:
** You DO NOT want this combo in a .44 Magnum because:
a. It would be about double the ammo weight And size ...and so you'd carry Easily Twice the .357 rounds.
b. Not needed.
c. Excessive recoil in a big way in this M94 configuration w/ 325gr+ gr. bullets. (Like an 8lb. 30/06).
** With this 187 gr. LBT bullet you get 8% to 20% less pressure at the same velocity/output as a jacketed bullet.
** In casting, use 10 lbs. wheelweights w/ 1 TBL. of high antimony shot -- water drop them.
** About 400% more penetration than a jacketed bullet in any realistic medium from live flesh to ballistic gelatin to wet saturated newspapers with inter-spaced bones.
** The LBT Stays nose-on with no yaw while traveling through flesh or liquid medium until it goes subsonic at the least.
** 25% tighter groups. 20% more wound cavitation.
** 80% less cost than jacketed bullets or better if you cast your own.
1. Approx. 17 grns. H-110 or 296 will yield about 1920 fps. in an 18" barrel. (Work up from maybe 16.5gr. or so).
Use MAGNUM PISTOL primers and crimp the bullet.
2. .357 Mag. brass is Everywhere and cheap as dirt; everybody has it. Sometimes its free.
3. No bullets to buy; you cast your own (you will have to buy Hornady gas checks).
4. Recoil Wayyyy less than a .243/.22-250 and the report is QUIET QUIET QUIET.
5. At 17 grns. of H-110 (or 296), a can of powder goes a Lonnggg way -- 411 rounds.
6. The rounds are about Half the size, weight and maybe 1/5 the recoil of a .44 Mag. In a Grab N' Go you could Easily have over 300 rounds with you -- No Sweat, AND control your environment to easily beyond 350 yards.
7. You have a short, light, accurate, fast firing carbine holding 10 rounds w/ no recoil-induced bullet back-out problems in a spring cushioned magazine tube. You DO WANT the Marlin Model 94 as it will reliably feed this bullet, and you can clean it from the breech. It will weigh 8 lbs. fully loaded with Scoutscope mounted, OR, you can mount say a Burris Fullfield II Riflescope 2X-7X.
8. Compare this .35 caliber bullet, shape, weight, velocity, penetration, recoil, cost, and effectiveness against say a .30-30.
9. I would guess that Most of today's shooters/hunters/riflemen have Very Little idea of what can be accomplished with lead bullet technology similar to what was used 2 centuries ago. You look around and you don't see any more Buffalo wandering about.
10. THIS IS A SERIOUS, DEADLY, EFFICIENT, ALL-ROUND SYSTEM!
You could employ this carbine system say to a town's population of females from young girls 10 years of age on up, (even young girls will LOVE shooting this rifle) who have been taught only basic Riflecraft and Mindset... and have an unbelievable force to be reckoned with. It is an AWESOME combination for either hunting, or, for urban warfare if needed.
It is unbelievably deadly and it is accurate, zilch recoil and QUIET QUIET QUIET. This combination has shot lengthwise completely through Elk up in Idaho; this bullet is the KEY to this combination to be able to have such capabilities. The bullet Ballistic Coefficient is .187, the B.C. being run as a G-1 drag model.
You can easily be effective to 300 yards with this combination, and it looks plebeian and Totally Innocent. 10 rounds of this as fast as you need to shoot and as fast as you can work that lever and shoot...its Fast!
THIS SYSTEM WORKS!!
11. All of this, in a simple "innocent, plebeian, ho-hum" looking piece at an inexpensive price that is "legal" even in places like the Peoples Republik of New Jersey or California.
