I am pi$$ed off and don't know what to do about it

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Originally Posted by yoni

Everything built in China benefits the commies and their military to say other wise is just stupid.

I have nothing against products made in other countries excluding China. If Holosun were made in Viet Nam, I would have no problem or the Dominican Republic.

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Do you mean that simply the business will be paying taxes or let the military use their IP? I dont have very much experience in this kinda subject, so please elaborate.


I actually came up with a really weird analogy recently. Think about it like this. In America the private citizen already owns an AR and a Glock 19, or some kind of shotgun/long gun and a handgun. The next step for the 2A is accessories and support. Besides a rifle an ammunition the modern citizen soldier would be spending a metric ton trying to outfit themselves with American made body armor, radios, drones, optics, ect. This is were the chinese step in with their super affordable and semi decent tactical gear. Kinda in the same way that the english supported the south during the civil war.

What I find interesting is that I was looking into the modern chinese infantry and they dont even seem to be doing a good job of integrating what their own commercial market is making for the US customer.

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Originally Posted by turnburglar

Do you mean that simply the business will be paying taxes or let the military use their IP? I dont have very much experience in this kinda subject, so please elaborate.

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Everything in China, must benefit the party which means also the military. That is the way they roll, they have stole every piece of technology from companies that have built factories in China.
When I came back to the USA, I was introduced to someone in a high position in the American intelligence community. I was in shock that he was using an I phone. In Israel you can't use a I phone if you hold certain jobs since they are a spy device for the Chinese.

On this thread someone stated the Mr. Holosun was a dual citizen, which means that he has family in China. The police will use this this to pressure him on giving up technology that they want. Not saying they need his technology just and example.

In the USA, the highest form of our freedom and liberty is the ability to own a gun. Then due to other companies creating goods that have not kept up we put Chinese red dots on our pistols and maybe rifles. Seems strange.

But the Holosun, I shot last week was not just head and shoulders above my RMR it was in a whole other place of being better.

double tap

Not having cost effective manufacturing in the US is going to hurt us. It already is.

Outsourcing the amount of manufacturing we have to a hostile country like China was/is criminal.

Cheap labor lead to slavery. If we're not very careful we're going to wind up being the slaves.

On the flip side, my buddy just bought a 507 with the green Vulcan reticle - joint effort between Holosun and Primary Arms. Great idea as far as a reticle goes to find the chevron in unconventional shooting positions.

When it came in, it had a weird double chevron. We had multiple guys confirm the reticle to make sure it was the same for all eyes. Everyone saw it. He called their CS and had to go through a bunch of emails on checking things to get it returned. He returned it (on his own dime) and was sent another and was told it was checked by a tech before sent out. Same thing - actually worse then the previous one.

Sure it is harder to see at arms length, but it blurs the chevron a little, instead of seeing the actual double. I don't see any negative reviews on it, but the green is relatively new and maybe is isolated to just the green and not the red. If it was the price of the their older red dots (@$200-$250) this would be more acceptable a flaw, but at $350, the chevron should be nice and clean. My buddy is returning the second one and buying something else since it seems it is an issue that cannot be addressed at the time. He was bummed, because he really liked the idea of the Vulcan reticle. Anyone else have the green Vulcan with similar issues?

I've had major issues with Trijicon in the past, so much as I don't like defending them, I do wonder if there are less immediately apparent advantages to the RMR. One thing I've noticed about these consumer oriented brands is that they can dance circles around the duty grade stuff because they don't have to adhere to the same standards. I'm just spitballing here, but maybe the glass is clearer because they don't have to use the same coatings for non glare/reflectivity or something. I know Trijicon basically uses the best glass they can get, which ironically does come from China. So if it's looking less clear, I almost think that has to do with coatings or something.

So yea, don't give up your hill just yet, because you might be the only person left standing on it in the end. I remember when those crazy bright lights came out and people were trash talking Surefire, calling them antiquated and shit. I thought, yea, no, something isn't adding up here. And sure enough, not six months after that, the reports started rolling in about those other lights catching fire and dying for no reason.

I just use what the pros use, and it hasn't steered me wrong yet. That said, I'm a diehard Aimpoint fan, and can't wait to try the Acro when it's fully cooked.

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Originally Posted by okie

So yea, don't give up your hill just yet, because you might be the only person left standing on it in the end. I remember when those crazy bright lights came out and people were trash talking Surefire, calling them antiquated and shit. I thought, yea, no, something isn't adding up here. And sure enough, not six months after that, the reports started rolling in about those other lights catching fire and dying for no reason.

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As far as LED's go, Surefire uses the same LED's as everyone else. They actually are a little antiquated. Catching fire and dying would be a battery issue and has nothing to do with an LED unless someone turned it on and left it on next to some wrapping paper. If they can build a quality pistol sight that can take the punishment, a flashlight is child's play.

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Originally Posted by prepare

Not having cost effective manufacturing in the US is going to hurt us. It already is.

Outsourcing the amount of manufacturing we have to a hostile country like China was/is criminal.

Cheap labor lead to slavery. If we're not very careful we're going to wind up being the slaves.

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China had slaves labor before we outsourced our future.

Americans are already slaves. We all work at least 6 months a year for free and against our will. In 1860 if you were a run away slave, they sent armed men with chains to haul you back. If you stop paying your income tax they will send armed men with chains and take away your freedom.

Yes we have progressed so far, we freed black slaves and then enslaved every race with income tax.

I used to tell myself that Holosun was second class junk compared to my RMR.

Then I shot my friends Holosun 507 green dot and that got me looking into things. I watched the videos at Sage Dynamics and watched Aaron beat the hell out of Holosuns. I don't think they are second class junk if they can stand up to his abuse.

My .357 sig project is dead in the water due to no ammo being produced right now by Underwood in the load I want. When that becomes viable at some point in time in the future I will then make a choice as to what optic goes on the Glock 35 .357 sig and the Glock 32. For now it is a Glock 34 with a 6 inch barrel to get the max velocity out of the 65 grain 9mm+p from Underwood, which is between 1990 to 2004 fps, this wears a Leupold Delta Micro. I have a 19L for if I need more concealment of the grip, the slide has an old RMR on it that just may get replaced soon with a Holosun with a green dot.

I love the green dot, with my eyes a red dot looks like corona but with only 1 spike protein at about 1 oclock, with the green dot it is a dot with no spikes.

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Originally Posted by yoni

I used to tell myself that Holosun was second class junk compared to my RMR.

Then I shot my friends Holosun 507 green dot and that got me looking into things. I watched the videos at Sage Dynamics and watched Aaron beat the hell out of Holosuns. I don't think they are second class junk if they can stand up to his abuse.

My .357 sig project is dead in the water due to no ammo being produced right now by Underwood in the load I want. When that becomes viable at some point in time in the future I will then make a choice as to what optic goes on the Glock 35 .357 sig and the Glock 32. For now it is a Glock 34 with a 6 inch barrel to get the max velocity out of the 65 grain 9mm+p from Underwood, which is between 1990 to 2004 fps, this wears a Leupold Delta Micro. I have a 19L for if I need more concealment of the grip, the slide has an old RMR on it that just may get replaced soon with a Holosun with a green dot.

I love the green dot, with my eyes a red dot looks like corona but with only 1 spike protein at about 1 oclock, with the green dot it is a dot with no spikes.

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I hated holosun dots to the max until I used a friends on his GLock. Everything was crisper, cleaner, clearer. It didn't mess with my astigmatism quite like my RMR's do. I always scoffed because I though it was cheap Chinese crap, and I was wrong. A lot of very reputable people are running Holosun optics, and I have only one left, but it's on my EDC P365xl.