When and why did the 30rd mag come about?

When I enlisted in 1986 my first issue was an M16A1. 30 rounders were already well into the system at that time.

M16A2's were still not full integrated at that point. I remember seeing 30 rounders as early as 1983.

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Originally Posted by Ghost__1

I've read somewhere that we didn't start using thirtys again until the round burst came out. I'll try and find the source but wanted to see if any of you guys have seen the same writing. Apparently because guys were wasting too much ammo fa with thirty rounders.

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Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

When I enlisted in 1986 my first issue was an M16A1. 30 rounders were already well into the system at that time.

M16A2's were still not full integrated at that point. I remember seeing 30 rounders as early as 1983.

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Yeah i'm not sure what it was. It was years ago and I was trying to see if anyone knew of hearing the same and what the source was. Trying not to detail this thread too much though. It seems outlandishly possible knowing what my battalion a they forced everyone to wear the exact same each setup per battalion sop. FYI it rendered the operation of the iotv's quick release impossible. Genius right?

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Originally Posted by Lone_Ranger

I think you just answered the OP's question!! The first 30-round AR magazine came shortly after, a soldier with a 20-round AR magazine encountered an enemy soldier, with a 30-round AK magazine. Especially, if the soldier was being fired upon by said 30-round AK magazine.

The soldier came back and said, why can't we have these, too?

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Right.


We couldn't be outdone in ammo capacity by the Commie-Blok community!

:nono:

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Originally Posted by danco

The first M16 magazines were 20 rounders simply because detachable box magazines that came before (M14) had a max capacity of 20 rounds.

A 5.56 30-rounder is more curved than a 30-rounder 7.62 because the 5.56 cartridge has a steeper taper.

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Originally Posted by SteadyUp

Huh?

AK mag sure seems more curved than the AR mag.

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5.56 has more taper than 7.62x51

7.62x39 has more taper than 5.56

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Originally Posted by SteadyUp

Huh?

AK mag sure seems more curved than the AR mag.

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He's talking about the AR mag compared to the M-14 mag.

Saw a few with the SF types in RVN, 69-70. My understanding was that they were issued with the CAR-15 (nobody called them the XM177 back then) but that they couldn't be trusted to feed properly in the field. I never had or fired with one, but my CAR was a shot-out hand me down so I can't verify what actually was issued.

I used 30 round Mags in the late 70's (76-80) for the M-16A1 at High School ROTC summer camp for weapons qual, which was ran by the USAR.

Based on the following, I think lone ranger is correct.

I remember once seeing a stoner interview that discussed this. It was probably a history channel history of the gun show on the m16. It may have been on a show about the comparison of the m16 and ak47 as i think that stoner and kalachnikov we're at the interview together. I have no other way of citing the source, it was back in the 90's. I also don't know if it was a made up answer or not so take it for what it's worth. Stoner basically said that the GI's were happy with the 20 round magazines until they heard about the 30 round magazines that the ak47 had, then they wanted them too. Seems to make sense.

medicman816 is closest based on several documentaries that I recall seeing in the mid to late 1990s. Dr. William Atwater, curator of the US Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen Proving Ground, was featured in several Weapons At War segments that discussed the introduction of the M16 rifle into service with US Forces in the early 1960s. The shows were on the History and Discovery Channels. Dr. Atwater, as I recall, described the adoption of the 30 round mag being based on Army and Marine Infantrymen having seen the 30 round mag for the AK47 and demanding 30 rounders for the M16.

I searched both History and Discovery Channels for DVDs on the topic but did not find the specific videos. Dr. Atwater's wikipedia site does mention his participation in these types of videos.

Not sure this helps, but I remember an old article I read where 30 rounders were a specialty item only issued to certain soldiers (LRRP?) for use in breaking contact during an ambush. They were each only issued one magazine.

Of course, if true this was very early in the process.

Dennis.