Why is it when a question is asked we get responses like this? I'm not looking for sarcastic remarks or comments. Sir you have no idea of my background or training.Quote:
Originally Posted by orkan
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Why is it when a question is asked we get responses like this? I'm not looking for sarcastic remarks or comments. Sir you have no idea of my background or training.Quote:
Originally Posted by orkan
Hey man, I have been shooting since I was 6 yrs old, just turned 43 today.
I'm no expert on anything,but, if I had a question, orkan would be on the short list of people I would ask/listen to.
You should read what he is saying and think...
Quote:
Originally Posted by M4armorer1199
I guess we have no idea on your background or training. That said, I have no idea what you should buy. However, my 2 cents says:
The 308 ends at around 1kyds
The 338 Lapua starts at 1kyds
The brass alone for just one .338 Lapua costs $2.75.
The .308 Win fully loaded with a Berger 175 VLD in a Lapua case w/Varget and primer costs around $1.25.
The 308 Win launches a 175 grain bullet @ about 2675 FPS.
The .338 Lapua launches a 300 gr bullet at about the same speed.
The 308 Win recoils 9.6 ft lbs with the above load in a 15 lb rifle.
The 338 Lapua recoils 31.8 lbs. with the above load in a 15 lb. rifle.
The .308 needs a muzzle brake, like a nun needs a bikini.
The 338 Lapua needs a muzzle brake, like a skydiver needs a plane.
You can shoot a 308 Win all day, and drink a beer afterwards.
You can get your friends to shoot your 338 Lapua all day, and they will buy your beer afterwards. (Hint: the beer is cheaper than one pull of your trigger)
Buy what you like, like what you buy.......
You can learn an awful lot about someone based on the questions they ask and how they ask them. My response was serious, and not meant as a slight. This one however, is meant as a slight, based on your senseless hurt feelings from the bruise your ego just apparently took.Quote:
Originally Posted by M4armorer1199
In the case of your question, you told anyone that does happen to know anything exactly what your stock of knowledge is as it pertains to long range shooting. ... and by my measurement, isn't diddly squat. A 308 and 338LM are so far on the opposite ends of the spectrum of rifle shooting, it would be compared to asking a car guy whether to get a bone stock V6 family sedan, or a top fuel dragster. Anyone that knows anything about cars is immediately going to peg you for having zero experience, and they would be dead right.
So my recommendation stands. Get a 308, learn to shoot it. Once you identify its limitations, move up to a 6.5 creedmoore. Once you identify its limitations, move up to a 7WSM. Once you identify its limitations, move up to a 338LM. Once you identify it's limitations, move up to a 375CT. Once you identify it's limitations, you'll probably be in a great position to hand out advice about whatever the hell you want in regard to long range shooting, with no fear of belittlement or bruised ego as a result of something I have to say.
The politically correct crybaby way of saying what I already said is:
Buy the 308, because it will allow you to hone your skills to the point where you will gain confidence and knowledge which will allow you to advance that skillset through more capable cartridges without fear of them overwhelming you.
This could have all been avoided by a little more thought being put into the initial question. You still have not stated your intended purpose? That for me is the sole driving factor in this decision. If you only have a 200m range available then the choice is clear if your going to try to take down a moose at 1k then the choice is clear. But to make a choice we need to first know the intent?
Most muzzle brakes for 33LM work very well. I have both 308 and 338LM. I would say let your wallet decide for you.
If you reload, I woudn't waste your time with 308. If I was starting over, I'd pick the 260 Remington over thee 308 any day of the week. It will buck the wind better and give you better performance with lighter recoil.
With the 338LM, you will get a round that will offer you 1 mile + shots, BUT it will drain your bank account pretty quickly. Even if you reload, 338LM is still expensive because the only good brass is Lapua or Norma aka BHA.
I'm not sure how far you are planning on shooting, but have you thought about getting a 300WM? Brass is easy to find and less expensive and the 300WM will give you good performance.
ETA: Posts are worthless without pictures.
Savage 308...this rifle is a hammer.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21.../Savage003.jpg
Remington 5r with AICS 1.5Stage...sold it
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...rSale09002.jpg
DPMS...I sold it
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...rSale09009.jpg
Sako TRG 42
Factory stock
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...ushnell003.jpg
New and improved XLR chassis
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...chassis032.jpg
Without some more details about you, your skill level, and what you want for/from the rifle replies will be generic at best.
My bank statements for the past decade are littered with the aftermath of expensive hobbies I no longer find interesting. I only say that because it would be a shame to get the LM and outfit it completely (not a cheap proposition over the 308) only to not shoot it for whatever the reason or not really get into long range shooting because of recoil or ammo cost.
So maybe if you give us some more details we can give you better advice. 308 is a safer choice over a 338, unless youre in deep already and know what youre getting into. In which case you wouldnt be posting on a forum.
Do you shoot LR often? Compete?
What distance ranges do you have?
What is your level of skill?
Target only or hunting?
How many rounds per month?
Existing reloading set up?
Holy cow man thats a big gap between those rounds. Kinda like asking whether you should buy a 4cyl Toyota Tacoma or a Ford F350 dually.
Im not super versed in long range shooting so take this with a grain of salt, or better yet just listen to Orkan.
If you are shooting a 338 LM at ranges under 1200 yards you are wasting money, a lot of it. Cheapest 338 I have found was around 70 dollars a box of 20. Good 308 can be bought for around 25 dollars a box.
When I reloaded for my 308s, using once fired brass, I could reload a pretty decent match grade round for about 7-8 dollars a box of 20.
Thanks for all of the replies. I'm sorry Orkan for my post. I'm not new to firearms but I have little experience in long range. My experience lies in varmit hunting out to 300 - 400 yards and the military using the M4. I know the basics but I want to learn the art of long range. The 338 Lapua is a awesome cartridge but I agree that the 308 is the way to go. As far as the expense I'm married with children so I can't afford multiple long range firearms.
Now that I've decided on the caliber here's my question.
I have $2000 for a rifle. What are your recommendations?
I already have a Leupold MK 4 scope
Thanks for any replies.
Patrick
That clears it up a bit. Although I am partial to Remington, the Savage at your shop would do you just fine. Use the rest of the money for ammo, and a class would be a great idea to get you off on the right foot. I would take a class over reloading gear, at least initially. That way if you do not get into it enough to financially justify the reloading setup at least you dont have a bunch of components you hardly use but experience and hopefully a little skill that you can bring forward to other disciplines of shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by M4armorer1199