Ok I have me an M4 with Surefire light now help me with optics

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Originally Posted by bkb0000

when the hell did we start differentiating between "holo sights" and RDSs, and why would we bother? this is the second time i've heard someone make a distinction.

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Well, I wasn't try to make a distinction so much as give a quick layman's expaination as to what they are, and that they basically accomplish the same task. Many people do prefer one over the other as far as reticle, ergos and battery life, and the two are indeed fundamentally different technology. It may not be much of a difference to the end user but it is enough to confuse the uninitiated. Regardless, it looks like the OP got the idea and won't be buying an optic anytime soon in favor of ammo and training.

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Originally Posted by Desiel

K got it lots of mags, ammo, and find a class ( I'm hoping they do one in Knoxville). I bought the CMMG 22 conversion kit so I could shoot the weapon alot with out such a big cost.

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You'll likely have a difficult time finding classes in K-town. Oak Ridge may have some going on, but it will likely be some kind of service-rifle stuff. You may want to contact Tracker722 on this board. He's down that way and may be able to help you out.

If you can find a way to swing it, the Vickers class would be a great place to start. I don't think he teaches basic classes very often, so it's a great opportunity.

Regarding your pursuit for optics, a question that is rarely asked is: What is your budget? It isn't an imperative issue for many but there are alot of us that it is a HUGE factor. We're talking sights that range from $200 used to $2000 new.

Take a look at the "Vickers Shooting Method Regional Training ' subforum. There are likely to be classes coming up within an easy day's drive from your house. Many of the selected Regional Training instructors are regulars on M4Carbine.net . Might not hurt to take Mas Ayoob's Rules of Engagment for Civilians as well , AFAIK , no grad has ever been convicted of a bad shoot. One poor guy did get a year for possession of an undocumented handgun in Mass. , but was found not guilty of murder. The incident never would have gone to trial in most places.

After your first class , run a search for Aimpoint C3 and Hensoldt ( magnifier ).

I love my aimpoint T-1 works very well quite accurate out to couple hundred yards. Liked it better than EOtech because of the battery life on the red dot.

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Originally Posted by 308murder

I love my aimpoint T-1 works very well quite accurate out to couple hundred yards. Liked it better than EOtech because of the battery life on the red dot.

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I just carry extra batteries.

I wont have to change mine for about a year, wouldnt you rather have an extra firing pin, bolt etc. instead of having to carry batteries, lol.

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Originally Posted by 308murder

I wont have to change mine for about a year, wouldnt you rather have an extra firing pin, bolt etc. instead of having to carry batteries, lol.

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How big do you think a CR123 battery is?

bigger than a CR 2032, I was guessing that you were keeping the batteries inside that magpul stock which can also fit spare parts. Thats the only reason I asked.

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Originally Posted by 308murder

bigger than a CR 2032, I was guessing that you were keeping the batteries inside that magpul stock which can also fit spare parts. Thats the only reason I asked.

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Between my stock and my grip, I have room to carry an entire AR15 ;).

I do have all of those prescribed extra parts in my range bag but I see no need to carry any of that extra stuff on my rifle, even though I have plenty of room to do so in addition to an extra battery. (iMod and TD or MOE grip).

I check all my RDS as part of the rifle's function check before I case it up to take with me somewhere, for whatever reason. If it blinks when I turn it on, I change the battery. I have one rifle that I don't take on callouts that has been blinking for about a month. I'm curious to see how long it takes to go dead.

If I were in a position where I might need to bring a rifle into play to save someone's life at a moment's notice then I might be more concerned about having an optic that I could just turn on and forget about it for a couple of years, in which case I'd dig my T-1 out of the drawer where I keep it on backup status and use that. Since I'm not too worried about my battery dying in the middle of a firefight, I'll stick with the Eotech. The T-1 is a nice optic, but size and battery life by themselves weren't enough to sway me. Your needs may vary.