Mini-SBR’s: the PCC options

I’m dropping this in here, though there are several forums it could fit.

I’ve got AR’s. I’ve got AR SBR’s. I’ve got a 7” 300BLK. I’ve got LWRC UCIW buffer setups. All cool, all great, may even use a LAW folder for extra portability on one lower.

I don’t see the MP5k clones or even APC being much smaller than my AR’s. The GHM is cool but long.

@yoni mentioned this in a thread at one point, but for most of us, a pistol with a bracing element is probably most practical for anyone not in the boonies.

What is the next smaller option that actually works?

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Originally Posted by JediGuy

I’m dropping this in here, though there are several forums it could fit.

I’ve got AR’s. I’ve got AR SBR’s. I’ve got a 7” 300BLK. I’ve got LWRC UCIW buffer setups. All cool, all great, may even use a LAW folder for extra portability on one lower.

I don’t see the MP5k clones or even APC being much smaller than my AR’s. The GHM is cool but long.

@yoni mentioned this in a thread at one point, but for most of us, a pistol with a bracing element is probably most practical for anyone not in the boonies.

What is the next smaller option that actually works?

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Mp5K, Vz-61 Skorpion. SxS shotgun with short stock & barrels.

Flux Raider? B&T USW?

The TP9 might look to be as big as a CZ Scorpion Micro or MP5-PDW given OAL and height, but the fact that the magazine is in the grip means that it actually takes up less space in general in a bag.

I guess the real question, what would even be the purpose? Like, the Raider has a shorter OAL with the brace, but it actually makes it too short for many folks to shoot comfortably, the stock that adds OAL also increases the LOP enough to be much more comfortable, IME. And realistically, what mission are you fulfilling? I really don't see too much advantage in such a tiny gun outside of niche applications that don't apply to most folks, like low viz PSD or operating in a high risk NPE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JediGuy

I’m dropping this in here, though there are several forums it could fit.

I’ve got AR’s. I’ve got AR SBR’s. I’ve got a 7” 300BLK. I’ve got LWRC UCIW buffer setups. All cool, all great, may even use a LAW folder for extra portability on one lower.

I don’t see the MP5k clones or even APC being much smaller than my AR’s. The GHM is cool but long.

@yoni mentioned this in a thread at one point, but for most of us, a pistol with a bracing element is probably most practical for anyone not in the boonies.

What is the next smaller option that actually works?

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Sonething with the mag in the grip.
M11/9, mp9, etc. The fact I cant get an mp9 kills me....

Anyways, if youre going bigger, might as well be 300blk IMO. The mico 9sbrs in semi dont make sense to me for a competent pistol shooter.

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Originally Posted by JediGuy

I don’t see the MP5k clones or even APC being much smaller than my AR’s.

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Well they aren't. The only thing they do better is suppression and pistol caliber recoil. Overall the package will be lighter as handgun caliber suppressors tend to be lighter as well.

The days when a 10 lb. Uzi still had a practical role in a world when the M-16 was a 6 lb. rifle have come and gone. They are very niche and right now their best application is in home defense as an upgrade from a standard handgun. When it comes to SMGs/PCCs vs M4 or similar for HD there are variable to consider but size and weight isn't as dramatic as it was decades ago.

I have used the B&T TP9 in this role in the past, and in the distant past the mini Uzi. The TP9 is so much better than the mini Uzi in this role due to a lot less weight.

I hope to be getting my 5 inch 357 sig barrel for my AR this week. This will go with my CMMG glock lower which has a folding stock on it. This gun will allow me to use the same magazines as my pistol, which in my view is a great feature.

I have the tracking number for the barrel, so it is getting closer.

@Defaultmp3 - To answer your question, it would fulfill nothing practical for me personally. I have no mission set that demands more than a handgun in my house and (sometimes) in my car for myself and my family.

But, I do like the idea of learning something new and trying out something that I haven’t used before…such as a PCC.
If B&T makes a PPQ/PDP/P99 compatible lower, I would consider an SPC9, but looking at the size, etc, just reinforced that I might as well stick with the 300BLK at that point. It isn’t that different.

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Originally Posted by JediGuy

I don’t see the MP5k clones or even APC being much smaller than my AR’s. The GHM is cool but long.

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Even without folding a 7” AR with UCIW stock is pretty handy.

Folding stock the AR ends up being quite wide, and can’t be fired folded. That may or may not be important for you see yourself using it.

But you are right, there isn’t much out there PCC that is that much smaller.

I don't see the need to shoot an AR with the stock folded if it has this feature.

Gun fights are a time -space continuum. The more space, the more time . Of course the opposite is true.

I never used the mini or micro Uzi for real when the stock was folded. If it was that close I used my Hi Power

Had a 5.56 SBR with LAW stock for a while and just didn't like it. Have a short barrel 300blk but by the time you add a can its still at least 12". Ended up going back to 9mm with an MP5K with a can and then even shorter with a CZ scorpion with integrated suppressor: https://innovativearms.com/portfolio...l-cz-scorpion/

They have a "K" model (the one I have) that is even shorter. Super amazing little package. Totally love it.

fwiw - Everything I just described is hobby stuff. I am not an operator...