B&T APC sights, optics

Has anyone found a good set of iron sights that work for the B&T apc line? I picked up my 16” APC223 on Friday and swapped the trigger for the shooting sight apc trigger, took off the flash hider for the pending arrival of a surefire FH and added the B&T folding skeleton stock.

The folding magpul sights that come with it, are way too tall to get a cheek weld. It shoulders more like a nice over/under than an AR. Which is sweet! Actually, the little plastic notch sights molded into the folded sight are the perfect height. Was thinking that maybe a set of HK416 irons might work well. The drum rear and fixed front would be pretty slick. Or Troy micros for folding. Anyone tried?

I’ve played with an aimpoint Comp M3 in a an old low mount and a Steiner P4xi in a ADM recon SL to see if they work. Both could stand to be lower. If I keep the Steiner for now will probably get separate rings to bring it down to about 1” optical center. Could even go ~.94 like the ARC M10 low.

Thoughts?

maybe CZ scorpion evo iron sights?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G900F przy użyciu Tapatalka

Not a bad idea. I have a scorpion I can pull them off to try out. I’d love a sig 550 style drum.

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Originally Posted by wolffie

...took off the flash hider for the pending arrival of a surefire FH...

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I thought B&T patterned their muzzle devices off of Surefire, so much so that they accept Surefire suppressors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolffie

Has anyone found a good set of iron sights that work for the B&T apc line? I picked up my 16” APC223 on Friday and swapped the trigger for the shooting sight apc trigger, took off the flash hider for the pending arrival of a surefire FH and added the B&T folding skeleton stock.

The folding magpul sights that come with it, are way too tall to get a cheek weld. It shoulders more like a nice over/under than an AR. Which is sweet! Actually, the little plastic notch sights molded into the folded sight are the perfect height. Was thinking that maybe a set of HK416 irons might work well. The drum rear and fixed front would be pretty slick. Or Troy micros for folding. Anyone tried?

I’ve played with an aimpoint Comp M3 in a an old low mount and a Steiner P4xi in a ADM recon SL to see if they work. Both could stand to be lower. If I keep the Steiner for now will probably get separate rings to bring it down to about 1” optical center. Could even go ~.94 like the ARC M10 low.

Thoughts?

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I'm thinking of buying one too. How many rounds do you have through it? How is disassembly, etc.?

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Originally Posted by Hkbeltfed

I thought B&T patterned their muzzle devices off of Surefire, so much so that they accept Surefire suppressors.

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They do. But the muzzle device is one of the 922r options and the B&T version doesn’t have the indexing pin for the Surefire Suppressors. It would fit, but you’d lose the repeatability.

If work and weather cooperate I will shoot it for the first time tomorrow. I’ve just been screwing around with it in my workshop comparing it to my 805.

Based on that, the trigger is better, it feels lighter and better balanced. And the stock is amazingly better! The sights have the same problem the CZ does. Too high to get a cheek weld. I put an ACR adapter on the Bren to fix that, and it’s a functional improvement but the coyote stock doesn’t match the gun.

The 16.5” pistol has 15x1 rh threads. A warcomp isn’t an option. So it’s getting the FH.

Tonight I pulled the sights off my scorpion and mounted them on the B&T. It’s pretty close. I could go slightly taller. Troy micros would be in the neighborhood at ~ 1.1” tonthe optical center. I’m trying to find out the height of center on the HK416 rail mounted sights... or even sig 550 diopterts... my 551 has welded sights.

Depending on how it shoots, I will either form 1 it to make it a 308mm rifle (~ 12.1”). Or if I like it enough I’ll leave it title 1 at 16.5” and form 1 the Bren at 11” because I believe that would greatly improve that rifle. Or liquidate the Bren and get another.

Based solely on taking it apart and playing with it. Get one. You won’t regret it.

Using the B&T supplied Aimpoint I ended up removing the B&T polymer buis and run none. Not ideal, but neither is raising the Aimpoint.

My ultimate plan is to switch to a low 1.5x ACOG. I'll feel comfortable with this site and no BUIS.

The CZ Scorpion sights work pretty good on the APC.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4568/...db8a67cf_c.jpg
Euro SBR’s by TX 556Mav, on Flickr

Have you played with the different apertures on the CZ sights? Couldnt find any info in the manual on whether or not they were for different ranges... the local dealer I bought the pistol from is letting me try a set of Troy Micros.

I made it to the range today. And this gun is a great shooter!!!! I shot groups with 55 gr 223, 62 gr Hornady 556 Black, Winchester 855 and IMI 77 grain. It shot everything well!!! It liked the 55gr the least and the Hornady the most. I played with the aimpoint and the Steiner P4xi. This rifle has the accuracy potential that I think either a low powered variable or something fixed like an ACOG would be perfect.

So, the aimpoint is out. The Steiner is too big. Looks unwieldy. But the reticle and the 4x are nice to have. It sits too high in the ADM recon SL Mount. Which places that the height above the rail at 1.1”. I’m going to look at other LPV optics. Maybe a nightforce 1-4? Wouldn’t save weight but would save on size and bulk.

Another thought is an ACOG T33? Or T50? I’ve not used either. Love my TA11. Will find one to play with. I’ve seen mounts that claim an optical axis around .8 - .9”? Will need to do some research.

As an aside, I realized that I’ve never shot decent ammo through the Bren. Primarily that fiocchi 55gr. I take back a lot of what I’ve said about it’s accuracy potential. It shot everything else well! But nowhere near as well as the B&T.

The CZ scorpion sites look good.

I forgot that when I was researching this I thought HK MP7 sights looked perfect. They had sites when folded too like the plastic B&T ones. 300$ for the set seemed reasonable too. Availability seems to be the issue.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-M...ete-356p24.htm

$300 seems reasonable?!? Maybe for a B&T! Here you go...

https://www.hkspecialiststore.com/pr...e&pageNumber=1

I wonder what the height above rail is in those. The SL8 sights looked promising. And are cheap. But i could never find a picture of how they attach.

I found a takeoff set of Scorpion sights for $80. I’ll play with those and if they work I’ll keep them. Maybe if these rifles take off, manticore or someone will come out with a propper sight set. The 16” gun has enough inherent accuracy that I think a drum rear and a hooded front like the San Swiss 550 would work great! I’ll email manticore and see if they have any interest. If there are enough of these guns for geiselle and shooting sight to make triggers? For that matter, perhaps B&T would do it. They are a small company with a seemingly flexible production capability.

Now I’m on to optics. I’m really leaning towards a NF 1-4. The TA 50 is a nice size but the listed eye relief worries me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolffie

Have you played with the different apertures on the CZ sights? Couldnt find any info in the manual on whether or not they were for different ranges... the local dealer I bought the pistol from is letting me try a set of Troy Micros.

I made it to the range today. And this gun is a great shooter!!!! I shot groups with 55 gr 223, 62 gr Hornady 556 Black, Winchester 855 and IMI 77 grain. It shot everything well!!! It liked the 55gr the least and the Hornady the most. I played with the aimpoint and the Steiner P4xi. This rifle has the accuracy potential that I think either a low powered variable or something fixed like an ACOG would be perfect.

So, the aimpoint is out. The Steiner is too big. Looks unwieldy. But the reticle and the 4x are nice to have. It sits too high in the ADM recon SL Mount. Which places that the height above the rail at 1.1”. I’m going to look at other LPV optics. Maybe a nightforce 1-4? Wouldn’t save weight but would save on size and bulk.

Another thought is an ACOG T33? Or T50? I’ve not used either. Love my TA11. Will find one to play with. I’ve seen mounts that claim an optical axis around .8 - .9”? Will need to do some research.

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As far as I can tell the CZ sights apertures are just for varying levels of preciseness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolffie

Has anyone found a good set of iron sights that work for the B&T apc line? I picked up my 16” APC223 on Friday and swapped the trigger for the shooting sight apc trigger, took off the flash hider for the pending arrival of a surefire FH and added the B&T folding skeleton stock.

The folding magpul sights that come with it, are way too tall to get a cheek weld. It shoulders more like a nice over/under than an AR. Which is sweet! Actually, the little plastic notch sights molded into the folded sight are the perfect height. Was thinking that maybe a set of HK416 irons might work well. The drum rear and fixed front would be pretty slick. Or Troy micros for folding. Anyone tried?

I’ve played with an aimpoint Comp M3 in a an old low mount and a Steiner P4xi in a ADM recon SL to see if they work. Both could stand to be lower. If I keep the Steiner for now will probably get separate rings to bring it down to about 1” optical center. Could even go ~.94 like the ARC M10 low.

Thoughts?

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Hi guys,

I have an APC223 8.7in bbl and also found the factory BUIS too high. I ended up replacing them with Troy Micros and mounting my T1 on an ADM CASV mount. This allows cowitness of the Troys with the T1 at about 29mm above the rail.

I like the 8.7in but have the original non fluted one and find it a bit heavy. I'm not sure the fluted version would be that much lighter. How do you find the weight of the 16in?

To be honest. I don't really notice the weight so I haven't really compared it to an AR. It feels lighter than the 805, and feels more compact. It balances well and seems like the weight is centered around the receiver. My next range trip, I'll bring an AR along too so I can get a feel. That said, "feel" is rather subjective. And I'm 6'3" and roughly 275. (Should be 225-230) My SR25 APC feels about perfect.

The plan is to mount the CZ sights, figure out an optic, and bring a few boxes of soft point ammo to see if I get the same feeding issues I've read about. I ran it with Lancer AWM 20 mags and didn't have any problems.

Did you get the CZ sites? How did they work, any pictures?

I did find a set. And they work pretty well. No ranging, but the height of optical center is perfect. I haven’t played with them much because life and pregnant wife have kept me busy. I did order an NX8 and a set of .885” rings. Just haven’t had time to mount it. Attachment 52746

Attachment 52747

I can’t see in the first pic, are you running an aimpoint?

I have an aim point flat to the top rail and I’m hoping to co witness through the XX sites

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Originally Posted by TMS951

I can’t see in the first pic, are you running an aimpoint?

I have an aim point flat to the top rail and I’m hoping to co witness through the XX sites

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Sorry. My photo skills aren’t great and I’m posting from an iPhone. I initially tried an aimpoint PRO in a low mount. It worked ok and you could co witness with the cz sights. If i was running the short version I’d get an aimpoint micro in a low mount and call it good. The 16” version has enough accuracy potential i wanted more. So I’ve now replaced it with an NX8 in .885” ultralight rings. And the cz sights have been ditched for KAC micro offset sights. It’s as close to perfect, if spendy, that I can come up with.

A small update. I ran the rifle with a few boxes, 100 rounds, of 64 gr Speer gold dot. And did not have any feeding issues. That said, I run lancer awm magazines. And haven’t tried the Pmags. I didn’t have a ton of it to test. So after two full mags, I loaded 8 rounds in the bottom of the mag, followed by some IMI 62gr, with two gold dots on top. Most issues I’ve read had the problems toward the bottom of the mag or the initial feed. While not a definitive test, it made me more comfortable. I shot for groups last weekend, and after my initial 3/4” 3rnd group at 200 it opened up to 1.5-2.5” groups using imi 62 gr. Not bad at all! I consider the first group to be pure luck not a reflection of my consistent abilities btw. But very promising. Last thing, I pulled the KAC offsets off the rifle. They hook on everything! So for the mean time, unless I find something purpose built for this gun. I’m just leaving the NX8 with no backup.

I my one warning is that B&T guns seem addictive. I love this rifle and am already trying to justify the short APC223 and an APC45 as an accessory to my rugged obsidian.

Thanks for the update. I like my Lancer mags. Let us know about Gen 3 PMAGs in your rifle when you get a chance.

Did you try Troy micros for iron sights?

Any other issues?

No other issues. It runs great and shoots like a laser beam. I will try the Pmags. Need to order more gold dots.

I didn’t try the Troy micros. To get the right cheek weld, I mounted the NX8 in .885 rings. They aren’t QD. So it needs 45 degree offsets. I tried magpul pro offsets. And the KAC. The snob in me wanted to like the KAC. But the magpul were probably better. Both snagged everything. The magpul snagged a little less. Neither really work. When I get another APC To SBR, I’ll put an Aimpoint Micro on it. And low back ups.

If I bought the cheek riser, it would get me up high enough to use any sights. Probably hk diopters. Or Troy micros.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolffie

Has anyone found a good set of iron sights that work for the B&T apc line? I picked up my 16” APC223 on Friday and swapped the trigger for the shooting sight apc trigger, took off the flash hider for the pending arrival of a surefire FH and added the B&T folding skeleton stock.

The folding magpul sights that come with it, are way too tall to get a cheek weld. It shoulders more like a nice over/under than an AR. Which is sweet! Actually, the little plastic notch sights molded into the folded sight are the perfect height. Was thinking that maybe a set of HK416 irons might work well. The drum rear and fixed front would be pretty slick. Or Troy micros for folding. Anyone tried?

I’ve played with an aimpoint Comp M3 in a an old low mount and a Steiner P4xi in a ADM recon SL to see if they work. Both could stand to be lower. If I keep the Steiner for now will probably get separate rings to bring it down to about 1” optical center. Could even go ~.94 like the ARC M10 low.

Thoughts?

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How are you liking the Shooting Sight apc trigger so far? Is it pretty close to the Geissele SSA?

I like it! It’s very similar to the ssa-e’s that i have in several AR’s. The break isn’t quite as clean. But it’s hard to tell I sat there dry firing a LMT MRP with an ssa-E and was hard pressed to feel a difference. My next B&T i will buy the geiselle APC trigger to compare. I would have gone geiselle do to blind faith. But couldn’t find it in stock.

I wonder how well these would work?

https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/4...IOPTER-p87.htm

Those would be better than standard ar height. It depends on the stock. I think I read that the HK416 sights are at 1.27 optical center. May have been 1.17? My NX8 is at .855” and perfect.

If you add the B&T cheek riser. It would work. I just like the clean lines without the riser.

Any more updates wolffie? Any suppressed use?

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Originally Posted by MadAngler1

Any more updates wolffie? Any suppressed use?

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Not many updates. I’m sitting here rocking a 3 day old newborn as I type this. So range time is severely limited for a while. I bought a case of 64gr gold dots waiting for the Pmag trials. I’ve not found anything that really works for backnup sights. I wish B&T would come up with something better. That said, i think it’s really designed with an aimpoint in mind, and the stock sights have rudimentary fixed sights built in to the flip ups that would work in a pinch. Using the cheek riser would fix most of the problems I’ve had finding something. I’m just stubborn on wanting the simple clean lines. When I get a short one to SBR, I will just put a T2 in a low mount and call it good.

Most of my shooting had been suppressed with a surefire RC 556. It’s been great. Very comfortable to shoot. Sold me on piston guns for shooting suppressed.

What is the thread pitch on the barrel? 1/2x28?

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Originally Posted by patriot_man

What is the thread pitch on the barrel? 1/2x28?

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The 16” guns are 15x1. I used a G36 Mount from surefire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolffie

The 16” guns are 15x1. I used a G36 Mount from surefire.

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Thanks! Guess that rules out the closed tine option.

Yeah. There’s not a lot of mounts. And cans are limited to SF or AAC. The 2nd gen pistols have 1/2x28. So if going short that opens up a lot of options. I’m kind of waiting to see if they bring in a 12” barreled version before buying a gory one. But I do want another, and an APC45.