P320 M17 review on American Rifleman website

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Originally Posted by Tokarev

What's your point? SIG has addressed the drop issue by swapping out department guns for new. Granted it seems to have taken awhile to admit there was a problem but once the Omaha Outdoors video broke SIG was quick to respond.

Could the "upgrade" have been handled better on the civilian side? Probably. I would have made it a recall and not a voluntary upgrade. Doesn't matter if the original gun passes a portion of the SAAMI drop test or not I would have pulled the guns back in and retrofitted all of them.

With that said, the few posts and threads I've seen relating to the upgrade process make it sound like the whole process has gone well. Guns are getting turned around in short order and most users like the new trigger as much, or more, than the original.


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The "point"? I had asked how long officers were walking around with guns that were unsafe. That's a question, not a point.


My personal take on the P320 is that the basic lockwork shows a fundamental lack of firearms engineering expertise since the use of rotating (vs. sliding in opposing planes) unbalanced parts pretty much guaranteed that there would be certain vectors that make the whole trigger system move - just like it did. Sig's fix for this enormous idiocy was to make the trigger lower mass, but that doesn't really fix the fundamental problem - it just increases the drop forces necessary to make the gun fire on its own - and some of the new low mass triggers have shown to be fragile.

Drop safe automatic pistols are over 100 years old. New gun companies keep finding new ways to screw up. I knew the US distributor for Vektor and told him the CP-1 lockwork also looked unsafe back in 1998 - 2 years later they were recalling those for drop firing.

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Originally Posted by Gödel

Sig's fix for this enormous idiocy was to make the trigger lower mass, but that doesn't really fix the fundamental problem - it just increases the drop forces necessary to make the gun fire on its own - and some of the new low mass triggers have shown to be fragile.

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There's more to it than just installing a lighter trigger.

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Originally Posted by Tokarev

There's more to it than just installing a lighter trigger.

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Yup. But they didn't completely change the gun, just made small changes to some of the parts - like the trigger.

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Originally Posted by Gödel

Sorry, I missed your response.

The guns weren't drop safe before the videos, so how long in total did your officers have dangerous weapons in the field from issue to replacement?

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We first took delivery of our first batch of 320’s in October 2015. We wrote up a transition lesson plan and in January 2016 I conducted a transition class for the instructors. April 2016 we started holding transition classes once a week for the rest of 2016. In 2017 we ran transition classes once a month. By the time we got notice of Sig replacing the pistols we had over 400 issued out. I looked at it as no different than any other recall. We’ve had all of our pistol ammo and all of our rifle ammo recalled from the street twice since I’ve supervised the Firearms unit. Which one is worse? Who knows. I will say it is all a logical challenge. Also I can’t remember how many times I’ve had cruisers recalled. Hell all the new Explorers have white carbon monoxide detectors stuck on the dash right now. Not addressing the exhaust problem, just monitoring it. David

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Originally Posted by dwhitehorne

We first took delivery of our first batch of 320’s in October 2015. We wrote up a transition lesson plan and in January 2016 I conducted a transition class for the instructors. April 2016 we started holding transition classes once a week for the rest of 2016. In 2017 we ran transition classes once a month. By the time we got notice of Sig replacing the pistols we had over 400 issued out. I looked at it as no different than any other recall. We’ve had all of our pistol ammo and all of our rifle ammo recalled from the street twice since I’ve supervised the Firearms unit. Which one is worse? Who knows. I will say it is all a logical challenge. Also I can’t remember how many times I’ve had cruisers recalled. Hell all the new Explorers have white carbon monoxide detectors stuck on the dash right now. Not addressing the exhaust problem, just monitoring it. David

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Thank you for clarifying.

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Originally Posted by Gödel

Yup. But they didn't completely change the gun, just made small changes to some of the parts - like the trigger.

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In case you haven't seen this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9vIY2EoJwE

I will admit to a personal bias against the P320. I handled one in my LGS a few years ago and it felt "cheap" to me. Somehow Glocks don't feel cheap yet I don't have a Glock. I've shot one at the range and it didn't impress me. I have in the past been an impulse gun buyer but the P320 didn't even give me a twitch...
I want our troops to have a decent pistol and I read it wasn't thoroughly tested. All weapon systems have teething issues and this appears no different. I'm willing to let it prove itself over the next few years and I hope we as a country are able to avoid further troubles overseas until, at least, it does get wrung out.

https://www.swatmag.com/article/u-s-...rce=newsletter

https://youtu.be/F2cOfS4-SY0

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Originally Posted by dwhitehorne

Some guns have white grease on some contact points. Some guns have no white grease on them at all.

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I purchased two P320s a while back; an X5 and an XCarry. My first two trips out to the range I had a combined 10 light primer strikes in 450 rounds as well as four failure to go into battery. All of the light strikes went bang in a G45 or a CZ with a 13 lb hammer spring (known to fail on hard primers).

I was getting quite frustrated that my new very expensive Sigs were not running. I was on the verge of sending them to Sig, but didn’t want to front the cash to ship two new pistols. I decided to check the striker channels. Sure enough, both strikers were sticky to remove and coated in thick white grease as you describe. It is my understanding that these parts are not to be lubed, and certainly not in need of grease. It was quite surprised Sig would send out a gun that way.

Since cleaning the strikers and the channels, both have run 100%.



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