Chest Rig 101- Introduction to the Art of the Chest Rig

There have been a few questions about different chest rigs…..just a few. :happy:

I am going to break it down as much as I can, with examples and some picture, by the different parts of the chest rig. Remember that I do not make any money from any of these places and I am basing all of this on my own experiences with every item mentioned in the last 13 plus years and not on what I have heard or read about. If I know of an item that I feel that needs to be mentioned and have not used it I will state that I have not used it. Otherwise I have owned every item mentioned and worked with it. I have been involved in some design ideas and some R&D with several of the manufactures yet I do not make any money from any of these places. I mention this because too many people on the Web who are supposed to be SME’s tell people about the superior products that company X makes and then get some kind of money, products, support, or whatever from them. Meaning that it may be a good product but the bias makes them overinflate their opinion and sometimes make them not talk about a better product. I am not naming anyone in specific but over the years I have seen this done by a lot of people. Just think about that next time you post that So-in-So SME says that this is the best Widget out there and he is blasted all over their website, posters and what-not……Do you think that they did that for free? Food for thought. I am not going to do that.

*NOTE: Most Pictures are just pulled from Google because I no longer own them and wanted to give examples.

Now on to the chest rigs…


Shoulder Straps:


This is one of the most important parts to me. If they are too big then it will not work in a low vis situation. If they are too thin then they can’t support a large load. There are about as many different types of straps as there are chest rig types.

1. Basic X Straps- This is your basic straps that just cross in the back. Nothing fancy just there to hold up the rig. These are good for a light rig and a low viz rig that you do not want bulky stuff in the way. If worn with armor they do have a tendency to ride up in the back and bother your neck.

a. Example 1: OSOE PALS Micro Rig

http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/...mininspals.jpg

b. Example 2: Tactical Tailor Mini MAV
http://www.blackstonetactical.com/im...minimav-2b.jpg

2. Modified X Strap – This is just simple modification of the basic X Strap by adding a “keeper” of some type to the back of the straps to keep them in place. These work great to hold them in place and it prevents the pinching of on the back of the neck when wearing armor. Down side is that it usually plastic and they can break and can rub.
a. Example: Tactical Tailor MAV
http://www.airsoftoutletnw.com/media..._chest_rig.jpg

b. HSGI Modified Straps for the Denali (uses slots to keep in place)

3. H Harness – These seem to be very popular now days. It is a spin-off of the old LBE H Harness. These work well with armor, prevent all riding up on the neck, neck and support a load well. Down side is that they can rub the back of your arms and arm pits on some rigs.
a. Example 1: Mayflower UW Chest rig
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-c...06/GTG-Rig.jpg

b. Example 2: Blue Force Gear (BFG) 10 Speed
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ke4pr.p5xt7...jpg?1404401004

4. Combination H and X Harness: A few Chest rigs give you parts that allow you to run it as an X harness or add in a strap to make it an H Harness. This system gives you the versatility to have both.
a. Example 1: Eagle Industries Rhodesian Rig
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...28fcb3c982.jpg

b. Example 2: Tactical Assault Gear (TAG) Intrepid Chest Rig
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/optacticalgear_2267_12817235

5. Padded H Harness - This is just as it sounds. Same H Harness but it is padded to support extra weight. These cane support and distribute weight really well. Down side is that they can be bulky and make adding a pack or ruck kind of a pain.
a. Example 1: ATS Modular Padded H Harness
http://www.atstacticalgear.com/PDGIm...24203521_1.jpg

b. Example 2: EssTac Padded Harness for the Boar Series Chest Rig
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ke4pr.p5xt7...jpg?1404401004

6. Padded X Harness: This is the solid back strap that is shaped like the X Straps. Using the same principle as the X Harness this method prevents all riding up the neck when used over armor and with the lower angle on the arm straps also prevents rubbing in the armpits. Some are heavily padded to support large loads and some are thin to allow comfortable use with packs and armor. Unfortunately there are not many options out there for these. I prefer this method over the others.
a. Example 1: Tactical Tailor (TT) MAV X Harness (the Gold Standard in my opinion)
http://www.fadedempire.co.uk/cpa-blog/before-sml.jpg

b. Example 2: Beez Combat Systems (BCS) Padded Harness
http://www.beezcombatsystems.com/ima...hest%20Rig.jpg

c. Example 3: Universal X Harness - My design and made by a friend ( I will go into this at a later part of the lesson)



7. Items not included: There are a few features that are not included but that I think are important. One is that I feel that Quick Release (QR) buckles are a must for easy off and on. I also like the ability to do minor adjustments while wearing the rig. The only one that I have found that you can do that is the Beez Combat Systems “Pull-Forward” design. It allows you to tighten the rear straps by pulling the loose ends to your front on each side. I added some bungee cord loops to mine and it is a great way to be able to adjust your rig from no armor to armor without taking a bunch of tape or elastic keepers off.


8. Waist Straps: Not going into this too much so I thought I would put it under the shoulder straps section. Not too many different types out there. Some are sewn on one side and some have QR buckles on both sides. One feature that I like is that some are putting elastic or a bungee section on one side to give it some give when moving around. I only can think of one rig that has it as an option and it is the BCS Chest Rigs.

The Body

For this section I am going to break it down into three sections; PALS, Dedicated, and Hybrid. Within these three categories I am going to discuss the different types, advantages and disadvantages of each.

PALS Chest Rig:

The PALS Chest rig is just the basic chest rig that is compatible with all of the different types of MOLLE Compatible Pouches. Before I get too far into it I want to explain the difference between MOLLE and PALS:

MOLLE – (Modular Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment) this is the entire system that all of the products belong to.

PALS – (Pouch Attachment System) this is the webbing on the chest rig that is set up on a row and column design. When talking about the size of a chest rig we usually talk about the size in rows and columns. As an example the OSOE Micro Rig is 8 x 3 (8 columns by 3 rows), they make different sizes now for it but you get the point.


There are many sizes of PALS Chest Rigs out there. I think that the smallest is the TT Mini MAV (6 x3 ish it has a few extra incomplete rows on the end) to the big boys like the Tactical OSOE Modular FROG (18 x5) and the EssTac Boar (20x3). The size of the rig just depends on what you what to use it for and how much you want to carry.
http://shtf-tactical.com/wp-content/...odularfrog.jpg

One of the greatest advantages of the PALS Rig is that you can change up your gear and move it around until you find how you want it set up. You can also add items and remover them based on t emission or just from lessons learned. I know a lot of people that started with their radio in the back to make room for ammo up front, I too was like that. I then moved it up so that I could get to it to make adjustments. Later on I added a second radio to the other side. The PALS Rig will be the most versatile in that you can change it up without having to get a new rig. There is a down side in that it will weigh more than a dedicated rig and it will be a little more bulky. Adding in all of the extra fabric and the attachment system adds the extra bulk and weight. For me the bulk is the only real draw drawback in that sometimes you need to have a very small rig to sit and drive or get into small areas (gunners hatch and so forth) but in this new world ounces are the new pounds when people are looking at gear so I will mention it.


Some of the PALS Chest rigs have built in mag pouches like the EssTac Boar Series and SOTech Hell Cat and also have complete PALS on the front. These are good if you want to have all of you Rifle mags in a single pouch type system and pouches in front of them. The drawback is that it can get bulky with all of the added material used to make the pouches. Some systems use less material when making them, like the BCS Chest rigs or the Diamondback Tactical (DBT) PALS Low Viz rig. There are advantages to the EssTac system. A person can change out the type of rifle mages (AR to AK to .308 to Shotgun) they carry without changing the rest of their kit set up.
http://www.popularairsoft.com/files/...S_boar_big.jpg
http://www.civiliandefenseforce.com/images/tomcat.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4227/s7300154nh7.jpg

This is very beneficial because I believe that your “Kit” is your combat life line. It has everything you need to survive on it and you need to be able to know where everything is in the dark. As someone who has lived in a kit for many months I can tell you that to do anything other than that a class you will have “stuff” besides mags and an IFAK. That “stuff” is what you are going to be using all of the time, maps, compass, GPS, como equipment, pens, markers, chem-lights, batteries, marking device, IR strobe, gun lube, snacks, ear pro, and so on. These are just examples of some of the stuff that I carry most of the time. Not everyone needs all of these items, but you may want to think about some of it. I know a lot of people that say that all of that should be in an assault pack or something. I agree with that except that I carry the same stuff in my pack, just in larger quantities. Without getting too far into the Fighting Load Lines (1st, 2nd, and 3rd) I like to have some items on my chest rig.


Some of these rigs have a bib or have the ability to add one. The TT MAV and the EssTac Boar Series have bibs that you can attach. SKD also makes one for their PIG series that can be removed. Bibs just add a bit more “real estate” to your rig to add more pouches and such. Bibs are great areas to add an Administration pouch, small items like leatherman pouches, or Push–to-Talk buttons. Most of them have built in map pouches and sometimes Chem-light loops. They do require you to lower your gear a little to be able to add them on. If you are not wearing a battle belt than a bib will not be a problem. If you are and are not 6’6” than it may ride a little low on you but it depends on the rig and how tall you are.

Dedicated Chest Rigs:

These are your chest rigs that have a dedicated layout. It may not be a dedicated to a particular weapon system but the pouches are all set up in a very specific way. There are more types of dedicated chest rigs than I can think about. They range from the small like the new Haley Strategic (one that I have not used) to the High Speed Gear Inc (HSGI) Denali and the OSOE Mookie War Rig (MWR) that are huge. The benefit of these rigs is that they are a little more streamlined because of the lack of extra material and no attachment system. For a light rig this can be the way to go. The Mayflower R&D UW series is a great example of this. It is set up with 4 mags and a place for a radio and IFAK on each side with a few GP pouches to carry all of the stuff you may need. DBT and Blackhawk Industries (BHI) also make a variant similar that carries 4 mags and has some GP pouches on it. London Bridge Trading Company and Eagle Industries also make a very high quality dedicated M4 rig that are a little bigger than the Mayflower one in that they carry more mag and Frags and such. There are also some simple dedicated like the Eagle and Blackhawk chest rigs that hold 4 or 8 mags.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...5lBr1_YkuGSzqQ
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0...?tn=-786634259
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4863/img1616r.jpg
https://camoismyfavouritecolour.file...bt-1961act.jpg
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/policestuff_2322_2564213563

The true greatness of these dedicated rigs is that you can set them up and nothing changes. Like I said before knowing where everything is can be very important. I like the dedicated rig for a light go-to type rig. My wife and I each have one as a part of our SHTF set up. I like the smaller dedicated rig for driving and working in compact areas. They are also great for when you are carrying a large heavy ruck long range. They do not get in the way when moving around. I carried one as a “Patrol Rig” for setting up quick ambushes and stuff where I had to move fast yet still carry some gear.

One of my favorite dedicated rigs of all time is the DBT AK rig. I like it because I can carry 6 PMags with ranger plates, a radio, IFAK, 2 frags, and some GP pouches in a very compact kit that I can wear while driving. I also use the dedicated rigs when working in a Low Viz situation as that may are light weight and compact.
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...926621/enhance

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...333665/enhance


These seem to have become more popular now days than in the past. Maybe because we got a little MOLLE crazy and everyone has calmed down a bit or it could be that people just want a simpler rig. Who knows?


The Hybrid Chest Rig

These are chest rigs that are a combination of dedicated and PALS sections on a chest rig. Many companies have started to do these as an interim between the lower profiled dedicated rigs and the adaptability of the PALS rigs. A great example and one of the first that I remember is the ATS Low Profile Chest rig. It has 3 built in M4 Mag pouches with PALSD on them and 2 Small GP pouches on each side that also has PALS on them. This gives you the benefits of the PALS system and the benefits of having some modular ability. Another one is the SKD Eagle Industries (now renamed the PIG UCR) Chest rig. It has M4 and pistol. Mag pouched that are dedicated up front and PALS on the back flanks. This way you can add a radio to either side and/or IFAK or just add more mags or GP pouches. This set up also can have a bib added to have area for an Admin pouch and such. Several other companies also make them for different setups and weapons types.
BFGs 10 Speed Chest rig is now a Hybrid in that it now has 4 elastic mag pouches and PALS on each side to add other items. It is a great low vis option for those that want the ability to add items if necessary. They make it for several different weapons now also, M4, .308, and sub-guns.
http://www.blackstonetactical.com/ca...s/lowpro-2.jpg
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ke4pr.p5xt7...jpg?1404401004
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-c...Basic-Load.jpg


I prefer the old model with the 6 mag pouches but that is personal preference. I also bought 5 of the old model when they came out with the new ones from people that had old stock so I could have my own stash.


Custom Chest Rigs

Sometimes there is just not the option that you want out there and you are just destined to settle. Hell no, spend some money and have it made to order. I have had several custom chest rigs made for me. There are several smaller makers out there that do great things and will work with you. I have had completely custom rigs made from EssTac and HSGI (a very long time ago before they both got huge). EGL makes a great product and Summit Tactical Systems (STS) made a great deal of gear for me when he was in the business. Look around and there are people that will not only build stuff for you but they will also modify products that you already have.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1...?tn=1788222378
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2...tn=-1287029052
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4...?tn=-229964772


I like the X Harness system the best of all of the suspension systems. I also could not find very many rigs with it. I made a design and had it made. This way I can take any chest rig with regular straps and run them into my Universal X Harness. I have also used with rigs like the Mayflower ones by cutting the cross strap off and making it into an X strap. Problem solved.



I hope I answered some questions and got you thinking about different things when it comes to chest rigs. This is a lot of information and I know that it can get be a little overwhelming trying to figure out where to start. Look at what you want to use it for and then look at you options.
I did not go into pouches or colors because that is way too deep and this was also getting a bit long winded.


Feel free to ask questions or ask for more information.

Great write up! Really liked how much you stressed importance of knowing where gear is located on Rig by blind reach.

Wow! I'll be soaking up this comprehensive, beautifully illustrated primer for a while. Thanks much.

Awesome read! I was anxious to see this hit the forum. Stand by for any follow on questions lol

good thread - i'm going to make it a sticky.

This is just going to be part one in a series of posts. I have been asked a great deal of questions over the years and I now have time to sit down and put it all on paper, so to speak.

Thanks MM for putting it someplace I can find it......:happy:

How snug do you recommend one adjust the rig to their body? Pretty snug or some play to it?

Docsherm, Do you ever use vests for LBE? My stuff is all on a vest, but it seems like I have a lot of PALs on the back that is not used so I have been thinking of switching to a chest rig.

Has that been your experience? Do you think vests are basically overkill? Is there any circumstances where you prefer a vest over a chest rig?

Great write up! When I want to try out a chest rig this will really help steer me in the correct direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trackmagic

Docsherm, Do you ever use vests for LBE? My stuff is all on a vest, but it seems like I have a lot of PALs on the back that is not used so I have been thinking of switching to a chest rig.

Has that been your experience? Do you think vests are basically overkill? Is there any circumstances where you prefer a vest over a chest rig?

Great write up! When I want to try out a chest rig this will really help steer me in the correct direction.

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I'm not doc but I don't think vests are overkill. It's what some have and can afford. The military body armor has excess PALS but you never need it until that time you need it.

Doc, got a lot of useful info on the earlier thread, and you have helped immensely more with this additional information. Thank you very much!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slybarman

How snug do you recommend one adjust the rig to their body? Pretty snug or some play to it?

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That is exactly why I like the BCS pull forward design. I like it a little loose when walking around but snug it up a bit for more dynamic stuff. If I did not have it, I would tighten it up until it was snug with taking the deapest breath you could.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trackmagic

Docsherm, Do you ever use vests for LBE? My stuff is all on a vest, but it seems like I have a lot of PALs on the back that is not used so I have been thinking of switching to a chest rig.

Has that been your experience? Do you think vests are basically overkill? Is there any circumstances where you prefer a vest over a chest rig?

Great write up! When I want to try out a chest rig this will really help steer me in the correct direction.

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Thanks. Stay away from the vest. No need for it. It is a thing of the past. Too restrictive and not flexible enough. When you can transition to a chest rig.

Outstanding posts doc. Thanks so much for putting this together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by docsherm

If I did not have it, I would tighten it up until it was snug with taking the deapest breath you could.

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OK. Thank you. Sounds like pretty snug then. I have a cheapo condor chest rig. Seems OK to me for what it costs and I have used it in a couple classes with no problems, but no real world use - and none really expected.

Thank you for sharing your time and info.

Good info Doc....
I think I bought a couple of your old rigs over the years...

Using "old" TenSpeed past couple of years...

Thanks for the write up. Any thoughts on split front rigs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HES

Thanks for the write up. Any thoughts on split front rigs?

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I have had several. I like them. They are very handy for when you are doing a lot of crawling or prown shooting. I also like how most of the split-front rigs have adjustments. That way you can loosen it if need be or vice versa. I like it with larger rigs. I feel that it is a bit counter productive for low viz set ups.

Thanks. I'm a dinosaur from the days of the LBE and one thing I always enjoyed was being able to unbuckle my gear and let it hand when necessary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HES

Thanks. I'm a dinosaur from the days of the LBE and one thing I always enjoyed was being able to unbuckle my gear and let it hand when necessary

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You should look at a split front rig. I would look at the Tactical Tailor Split Front MAV, put a X Harness on it and you can set it up a thousand different ways. Hell, I got a wild hair up my as one time and set up that same rig just like my old school LBE was set up back in the stone age, canteens and all........:jester:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by docsherm

You should look at a split front rig. I would look at the Tactical Tailor Split Front MAV, put a X Harness on it and you can set it up a thousand different ways. Hell, I got a wild hair up my as one time and set up that same rig just like my old school LBE was set up back in the stone age, canteens and all........:jester:

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Awesome. By the way where should I carry my geritol? ;)


This aging thing is for the birds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HES

Awesome. By the way where should I carry my geritol? ;)


This aging thing is for the birds.

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Try this pouch.....LOL....;)

http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/po...ch-12PG00.html

:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by docsherm

Try this pouch.....LOL....;)

http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/po...ch-12PG00.html

:D

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Posts like this is why we need a karma system on the board. GGGGRRRRAAAANNNTTTTTT!

Docsherm thanks for putting this together. I've been interested in setting up a very simple chest rig for quite a while now, but I've never been sure where to even start. A lot of good information here. I look forward to seeing what else you add on the subject.

Doc, Thanks for this thread. Very informative. Retired mil (2 branches) and pretty lost on options past LBE & alice. PM inbound.

Great post, and thanks for doing it.

I had a very tough time making up my mind about what to go with, especially because I knew I wouldn't have the opportunity to try out a bunch of options. I knew I wanted something that could work with both AR and AK mags, since I use both systems. I was leaning toward a minimalist HSGI rig when I discovered 7.62Tactical. I read a lot of good things about their products. I couldn't find exactly what I wanted ,so had Colin make me a custom chest rightly combined elements of two that he had on his website. While I now wish I had gone with multicam instead of coyote, I am pleased with the rig. I supplement it with a taco on my belt, along with a few other items. Colin isn't super speedy, and his lack of response to emails can, at times, be unnerving, but I like what he built for me, which is a non-modular design.

Anyway, this is a great thread. Thanks!

Thanks for the write up, I have been looking for a dedicated AK chest rig. BCS seems to have some good stuff with a split front AK rig.

Doc, I'm not an assaulter, just a middle aged home defender. Other than my obvious need to find a better pistol location (still trying to figure out where or if I want a pistol holster) critique this setup that is designed around my three main cartridges I would use in various bad scenarios.

Please critique or offer improvement suggestions for this hastily put together setup. That is somewhat also intended to be a throw in the vehicle and have a variety of rounds at hand for different weapons. I'm not real big and can manage the weight just fine for the intended purpose.

I'm sure there are some 101 level mistakes here that others can potentially learn from along with me. I've never put one together until recently.

http://api.zenfolio.com/cdn/pub/lfqo...Q1LD_SPXupn-M=

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HKGuns

Doc, I'm not an assaulter, just a middle aged home defender. Other than my obvious need to find a better pistol location (still trying to figure out where or if I want a pistol holster) critique this setup that is designed around my three main cartridges I would use in various bad scenarios.

Please critique or offer improvement suggestions for this hastily put together setup. That is somewhat also intended to be a throw in the vehicle and have a variety of rounds at hand for different weapons. I'm not real big and can manage the weight just fine for the intended purpose.

I'm sure there are some 101 level mistakes here that others can potentially learn from along with me. I've never put one together until recently.

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I'm not Doc, and I'm not an expert either, but having gone through a lot of similar gear for a similar role, maybe I can help by asking a few questions;

First off, the pistol holster-
You mention intent is a "toss in vehicle" kit. Is this like a farm/offroad vehicle, or your daily driver?
In your state can you CCW? If so maybe you could ditch the MOLLE holster in favor of your EDC piece on your belt line?
If not, I guess you could just store the handgun in another holster, and stick it on your belt when needed.

Actually, I'm just going to come out and say it- I've found those universal MOLLE holsters to be universally awful. :bad:
I'm sure you could find a better option than that for you secondary, that you could mount on your belt line with relative ease- G-code is pretty cheap and has a number of mounting options....Or Safariland if you need more of a drop/offset to work around pouches and such. That way you can have a better draw, and free up valuable MOLLE space on your CR.

Per the " three main cartridges I would use in various bad scenarios".
Do you have ALL three firearms on you or accessible at all times? Or are you planning on "battlefield pickup" or such? Do you run 3-gun competitions with this?
If not, it seems you could ditch some items.
What is your go-to long weapon- shotgun or rifle?
Again, depending on your chosen go-to, you could ditch some ammo. I'm guessing by the load out your primary is a rifle.
In that case, how far is 6 rounds of shotgun ammo really going to get you? Especially since you're probably not going to be carrying all three weapons at the same time...right?

Also tying in with the previous on ammo is that you can consolidate the space you use on your rig a little- for example, (and I'm totally going with the obvious based on the picture, so it's just a guesstimation), let's say you ditch the shotgun ammo. You now have 2 extra MOLLE slots on your rig- rejoice!. :laugh:
Now I also hate (personal opinion alert!)the combo 3 rifle/3 pistol mag pouches. It's kind of a waste of space considering you could mount 6 pistol mags in the MOLLE space they use to mount three...
Three ways you could go here-

1) Use a single-stack triple or quad M4 shingle, and then use the available frontal MOLLE space to better effect- you can now mount your pistol mags, secondary handheld light, Multitool/folder, TQ, etc. without needing the sideways pistol pouch on the bib (I'm coming for that one later...). Hell, you could even slap on a few shotgun shells if you feel you need them. You would also now have 3-4 slots on each side for other essentials such as an IFAK and general purpose/sustainment stuff.

2) Use a triple double-stack M4 flapped or bungee pouch- think about it- an M4 mag + Glock mag is easily the width of a pair of stacked M4 mags, right? You could consolidate your Primary mags into one spot instead of taking up room everywhere. Plus with this method you are now guaranteed 4 slots of MOLLE on each side of the rig- depending on your needs, you can mount more or larger pouches to 4 spaces of MOLLE than you can with three. However, personally I refuse to have less then 2 secondary mags on my rig, so you will use 2 slots there. However, if you're clever you can use the space behind them for either a 7th M4 mag, or a small fixed blade knife (unfortunately GP pouches generally seem to sag with pistol mags mounted to them).

3)Single M4 2x mag shingle with your pistol mags/light/kinfe/ etc. pouches on front, then 2 double stack M4 mags on either side, leaves you with 3 MOLLE slots on each side (see SKD's chest rig as an example)

So either way here, you can consolidate your gear and gain more use out of your available space.

Per the bib, I don't know what your intended use is there, but with 2 of the 3 above setup suggestions, you could ditch the horizontal single mag pouch, which means you may not need it at all.
I'm not a big fan of bib mounted stuff in general, but I can see the utility especially on a chest rig with limited space. Personally I would lean toward a small pouch that would enable me to hold a few more items, as opposed to just a flat "ID/Patch panel" pouch- more like a "map, compass, pencil/marker and similar assorted goodies" as opposed to just a flat ID/patch panel pouch. Or you could do a couple small individual pouches, for example if you had a small/flat enough GPS, and then a pouch for your compass/markers/etc. However, the thing is here to NOT mount a pouch so big it interferes with you drawing your primary magazines... It's a fine line- you'll have to experiment with what works for you- and this kind of goes for everything mentioned here.
Maybe you already have it- just putting out some extra ideas that I hope help you out.

Thanks, lots to consider! Just read and am still digesting. Appreciate all the time and thought that went into your response.

I agree completely on the Universal pistol holsters, I have three and they all suck. Yes I have a CPL and many other holsters and I plan on taking that off first. -Good call!

Quote:

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Do you have ALL three firearms on you or accessible at all times?

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Yes.

Quote:

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In that case, how far is 6 rounds of shotgun ammo really going to get you?

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That is 20 rounds of 00 buck and slugs. Does that change your view?

I'll have to think about your other suggestions. When I accumulated these items it wasn't at all clear to me I would run out of space so quickly. Good thought starters and thanks again!

I'd stick with the rifle for primary. Maybe keep the gauge and a bandolier around to give a friend or family member in the event that everything goes real bad?

Lose the 308 and the guage and now your kit is much lighter (so now you can run some plates maybe?) and you can toss in an extra few mags.

More than anything I'd suggest a few classes with reputable instructors. Moor my first I had an old nylon 'instructors belt' with 2 fast mag pouches stuck on and a pistol mag in my back pocket. Now I'm a fan of the brokos belt with 2 pistol and a rifle mag, dump pouch, and medical.

Get some training brother, and keep reading threads like these and try things out, but remember to always put practical first.


Oh, and 25 rounds of gauge is nice and all for a HD situation, but if shit is bad enough that as a civvie you need to strap on a plate carrier loaded up with mags....25 rounds that need to be individually loaded sorta sucks when you can charge your ar with 28 rounds in about a second

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Originally Posted by HKGuns

That is 20 rounds of 00 buck and slugs. Does that change your view?

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Well, I'm not trying to take a side here on what gun you should use, just give what helpful info I can. But 20 rounds *is* better. :p
I couldn't tell in the picture if it was some sort of flapped GP pouch, or a shotgun ammo pouch.

I also didn't notice the .308....

In light of the now 4 separate calibers being carried, as well as your previous statements, it seems that a little more info would be helpful on what your intended theory of use is.

For example, the first post you state a "home defender" theory of use. So given the somewhat odd loadout, it would seem correct to assume that you have multiple guns in multiple positions around the house, and that this is based on having a rig that can be used to throw on and have ammo on hand for each?
However, (and this is an issue that's been covered a lot in multiple threads here, if you're looking for more opinions/ideas) there's a couple things to look at with this- will you have time to get the CR on? Are you planning on a mid-night home invasion, or fending off an attack on your homestead post-SHTF?

Then what I mentioned earlier- what is your go- to gun? Is the nightstand gun your handgun? Shotgun? Rifle? Which cal. rifle?
This will dictate what your basic ammo load focuses on.
If a home invasion, is the intent to clear your house (is there a good reason to do this?), or hold a room and wait? I think we can agree, in both situations there, you don't need 4 different calibers on one rig.

If it's a post-SHTF situation, with your guns at multiple points of your house to defend from, since you're planning a static defense, why not simply store the needed ammo with the other guns? Say some sort of bandolier or "mag bag" like the old Eagle/Blackhawk bags or UW Gear's bandolier version, or just an ammo can full of shells or loaded magazines?
If you have the need to defend different points of your home, then another question is are you the only one responsible for this?
Seconded by why are you the only one? I think we can agree that at some point this is not going to work out well for you without help. In which case, if you DID have help, then surely they can use their own weapons and carry their own ammo, right?

If we take the post SHTF situation a little further, why bother packing the extra calibers at all? Say you have time to toss on your vest with a rifle or shotgun primary ammo load, and your handgun backing it up. Why not simply store more ammo for your primary at the strategic points in your home? (caches I can see multiple calibers, but that's another topic).
Or let's say you get overrun and you have to fight your way out of your house and GTFO of Dodge. In such a case, then it would seem to place even more emphasis on picking one primary and loading for it, so that you don't end up unintentionally cheating yourself out of badly needed ammo mid-bugout, or to have a secondary with it's own ammo supply.
Not to get to preachy to the choir, but ammo for the gun you have in your hand is more important than ammo for one in the next room.

Then the statement of "also intended to be a throw in the vehicle and have a variety of rounds at hand for different weapons."
But this would then seem to conflict with the previous home defender role, given that I see this working even less for a vehicle kit.
Do you carry all four guns in your vehicle all the time? If so, why?
Do you have buddies to make use of them? In which case, see previous about them carrying their own gear...
Buddy handout ammo? But again, see the "carry your own damn gear" section. :laugh:
For if one of them goes down and you need their weapon? But then this would seem to point to a need to un-invest from a caliber or two, and re-invest in some standardization so this is not an issue.
In case of battlefield pickups? Ok, maybe some 12ga. shotgun ammo I could see since it's so common, but how many goons are going to be packing AR-pattern .308s? I'd guess you'll most likely end up thumbing them out so you can single- load the hunting rifle you picked up...
And if you're planning on battlefield pickups, frankly any plan that involves or relies on that sounds like a lot of crap hitting the spinner if you're down to that option... :fie:

Finally, if you haven't already, consider maybe adding some sort of medical equipment to your loadout- doesn't matter if you have a full IFAK, or a TQ and an IBD in your pocket- just *something* to keep yourself from becoming an immediate casualty. Armor if possible isn't a bad idea either.

Anyway, not trying to be a dick, just genuinely curious about the reasoning behind your current loadout, and trying to provide some extra food for thought. :)

Just the kind criticism I was looking for.....JellyBean. As your post implies, it isn't that well thought out and all the points you make are all quite valid.

I guess I need to better define the intended purpose and work through all of the points made in the above posts.

Thanks OP for a great post.

Remember that a chest rig will never be the "do everything" solution. Know what you want it to do and go with that. Never try to carry every kind of magazine you hown on it. It will just do many thing badly.




I am trying to come up with my next topic and I am interested in what people want to hear about. I was thinking about the Battle Belt vs. the Chest Rig or the Chest Rig vs. the Plate Carrier.

Thoughts?

Battle belt is my preference.

I would really like to see something on battle belts v. chest rigs

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by aguila327

I would really like to see something on battle belts v. chest rigs

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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As would I. I think for most civi's the battle belt is optimum.

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Originally Posted by docsherm

Remember that a chest rig will never be the "do everything" solution. Know what you want it to do and go with that. Never try to carry every kind of magazine you hown on it. It will just do many thing badly.




I am trying to come up with my next topic and I am interested in what people want to hear about. I was thinking about the Battle Belt vs. the Chest Rig or the Chest Rig vs. the Plate Carrier.

Thoughts?

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I would very much like to hear your thoughts on both of those topics (one at a time of course). Maybe you could tackle both of them as parts 2 and 3. However, if I had to pick just one it would be the battle belt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by docsherm

Remember that a chest rig will never be the "do everything" solution. Know what you want it to do and go with that. Never try to carry every kind of magazine you hown on it. It will just do many thing badly.




I am trying to come up with my next topic and I am interested in what people want to hear about. I was thinking about the Battle Belt vs. the Chest Rig or the Chest Rig vs. the Plate Carrier.

Thoughts?

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i'd like to read a belt/vs chest rig also, as i find myself torn between the two. I generally just run a belt with mag pouches, dump, medical, pistol and am pretty much good for local competitions and walking around in the woods, but chest rigs look fun.

i'm of the opinion that if it's time to strap a whole rig to my chest i'd rather it be on a plate carrier anyway