Letter to military and LE: If the quarantine camps ever come here to the US...

God forbid what's happening in Australia right now ever come to this great country. But if it does, I implore those of you in the military and law enforcement to consider these points carefully.

The way the Holocaust is presented in school and documentaries, it leaves one with the dangerous impression that the Germans up and decided one day to mass murder millions of people.

One could potentially argue that that was true of certain Nazi leaders, though I think the facts say otherwise, the people who carried out the Holocaust never had that decisive moment. At every turn, they were led down the primrose path of good intentions.

Ironically, the most oft cited piece of evidence for Holocaust deniers, the swimming pool at Auschwitz, is to me by far the most chilling aspect of the entire horrifying story.

Think about it. When those camps were being built, the architects, engineers, and workers had absolutely no idea what they were doing. They were designing and building legitimate housing, designed to humanely support the life and health of the internees who would be moved there. To the extent that they provided recreational facilities, in addition to the comfortable dormitories, which were heated, brick buildings that any German soldier would have been happy to live in.

Even the notorious ovens and Zyklon B gas were completely innocently placed there by the camps' designers. The Zyklon B was meant for delousing, and for years that was its only use in the camps. There was zero premeditated intent on anyone's part to use it to murder people. It merely became a convenient means discovered by an SS lieutenant once the mass murder had already started, and even that first use began in relative innocence, as it was used to execute Russian prisoners of war who had been, allegedly, duly convicted of war crimes.

The ovens were necessary, and there were only enough in the main camps to serve what would be the expected natural death rate for a population as large as what the camp was designed to hold.

The very first gas chamber? Originally an air raid bunker for the SS officers and medical staff.

But slowly everything changed. Even the medical facilities meant by their designers to provide compassionate medical treatment to prisoners became places of torture and medical experimentation.

The Zyklon B meant to save lives became the main agent of murder, though no one could have predicted it, and even after its nefarious use was discovered there were still challenges going forward that almost stopped the program. Namely an incident where the SS officers accidentally gassed themselves and became ill, which is when the makeshift gas chamber was put out of use and the gassings were moved to new purpose built death factories hurriedly erected down the tracks from the main camps.

My point that I'm trying to make is that at no time in the leadup to the Holocaust could anyone point to anything going on that was outwardly nefarious. From the top down, everything was above board, and all designs and intentions, outwardly, appeared noble in light of the politics and beliefs at the time.

In other words, my point is that there's really no fundamental difference between the death camps of Nazi Germany and the quarantine camps being built today. Including their design, and their intent.

There will not be any warning. They will not build literal death camps with gas chambers and ovens, as so many conspiracy theorists claim. There will never be a smoking gun pointing to premeditated mass murder.

The smoking gun is when innocent people are forcibly put in prison camps against their will! That's the only warning you will ever get. THAT is the smoking gun, and it's the only relevant detail in any of these discussions.

It is a crime against humanity to imprison innocent people against their will, that is tantamount in and of itself to the premeditation of mass murder. There is never any justifiable reason for rounding up innocent people and imprisoning them. Not one single time in history was this ever okay, and this time will be no better. And the people orchestrating this, and those carrying out the orders, will be viewed by future generations as criminals at best.

I implore everyone in the military and law enforcement to consider these facts, and consider what they will do if relocation orders are given here in the US, as they have been in Australia. No matter how innocent it feels in the moment, history will remember it as the crime against humanity that it is. And depending on the circumstances going forward, it, and you, may be remembered as much worse, IF you comply. Alternately, history may remember you as a hero if you refuse. Hopefully the people of Australia will push back, and this horrific thing won't come here, but the time to take your stand is now, before it even has the opportunity to.

Biggest difference between our friends down under and us. We still have guns. I know people say Americans are too scared to use them, but the fact that Americans have them will give the tiny tyrants pause before attempting something like what Australia is doing.

You make very good points though. People should read Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland. It’s a hard read to get through, I had to put it down a few times. But it’s a vital read if you want to understand how ordinary men can be complicit in genocide.


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Excellent post, Okie!

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Originally Posted by okie

Even the notorious ovens and Zyklon B gas were completely innocently placed there by the camps' designers. The Zyklon B was meant for delousing, and for years that was its only use in the camps. There was zero premeditated intent on anyone's part to use it to murder people. It merely became a convenient means discovered by an SS lieutenant once the mass murder had already started, and even that first use began in relative innocence, as it was used to execute Russian prisoners of war who had been, allegedly, duly convicted of war crimes.

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So I get where you are going with this but you overlook some very important details.

Lots of people knowingly evolved death camps. They did this first with the mentally handicapped and started with deliberate murder via carbon monoxide poisoning.

There was also a lot of deliberate murder in Poland, Ukraine and Russia by locals who were encouraged to round up jews, communists and others and engage in mass murder or by SS einsatzgruppen members specifically. Do not kid yourself about this shit or buy into the "nobody knew" nonsense.

https://static.timesofisrael.com/www...6683120321.jpg

This woman isn't being deloused and accidentally shot.

There is the other important consideration called the Wannsee conference in 1942 where the issue was raised, the numbers of jews calculated and means of disposing of them decided on. Every single person at that meeting completely understood the directives.

Even when the jews were still confined to ghettos, it was understood by most in the SS that they were surplus labor to be worked to death. This was one of the early solutions, but it just wasn't working fast enough.

There were also concentration camps, where people were to be housed and they were something more than ghettos. There were also show camps like Theresienstadt which showed humane treatment, comfortable surroundings, medical care and even art programs. But even this camp was more of a way station and most inmates eventually found themselves transported to extermination camps.

Extermination camps are Auschwitz-Birkenau, Terblinka and too many others to name. Nobody misunderstood the purpose of these camps. Sure they had amenities, those existed for the SS who ran the camps. People who arrived were either immediately sent to their death or worked to death if there was a need for labor. If the labor pool was full, anyone who arrived who might be fit for labor was simply executed.

Everyone at those locations understood what was happening, even Churchill received reports of the extermination of jews at "special camps" but he discounted the reports of Russian propaganda designed to motivate the west to invade Europe at an earlier date.

Now a lot of Germans didn't know what was happening. In fact the first inmates of Dachau (one of the first concentration camps) were Germans who complained about the treatment of Jews in Germany or otherwise learned of their actual treatment in camps outside Germany. And most of those camps were built in Poland because they didn't want to alarm the German people.

But don't kid yourself, everyone in Poland or Czechoslovakia who lived anywhere near an extermination camp understood full well what went on. Many of them worked as support staff to those camps as cooks, cleaners and other domestic help. Many of those people were glad to see their country being rid of jews.

Even France knew what was going on and without even being asked began a program of rounding up jews in France and deporting them to concentration or extermination camps. If you think nobody involved in that roundup understood what would happen to these people, you are kidding yourself.

The only people this was hidden from is the German people themselves and that isn't because they cared about the jews but because the nazis were worried that it might upset some who wouldn't support the wholesale execution of men, women and children but more importantly it might weaken resolve and support for the war. But even with that, LOTS of people even in Germany understood and accepted what was going on. Those that complained found themselves in Dachau.

And Germans were pretty much completely fine with German NON jews being held at Dachau for political reeducation, which sometimes ended in extermination so trust me nobody was losing sleep over jews in other camps.

I would like to think that a lot of what could happen would not because it's not in the political human frame but because I genuinely don't believe Americans will rise up against. Evidence to my view; today's current climate

We've seen riots go unchecked
We've seen a pandemic of epic proportions that pales in comparison to past ones and people follow 'rules' like sheep
we've seen business shut down for trying to operate and no one lifted a finger
we've seen black on white crime escalate, business holding 'less whiteness' seminars and training with very little resistance and more
we've seen a lot that says no, Americans will not take to the streets until it's literally too late

The reality is that white America, Christian Americans are under attack and nothing is happening to stop the tide. Hell we had 10k marching in VA and they still passed those laws. One thing the communists were right on, laws are changed at the point of a gun.

I never would have thought that we'd of allowed what we've allowed

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Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

So I get where you are going with this but you overlook some very important details.

Lots of people knowingly evolved death camps. They did this first with the mentally handicapped and started with deliberate murder via carbon monoxide poisoning.

There was also a lot of deliberate murder in Poland, Ukraine and Russia by locals who were encouraged to round up jews, communists and others and engage in mass murder or by SS einsatzgruppen members specifically. Do not kid yourself about this shit or buy into the "nobody knew" nonsense.

https://static.timesofisrael.com/www...6683120321.jpg

This woman isn't being deloused and accidentally shot.

There is the other important consideration called the Wannsee conference in 1942 where the issue was raised, the numbers of jews calculated and means of disposing of them decided on. Every single person at that meeting completely understood the directives.

Even when the jews were still confined to ghettos, it was understood by most in the SS that they were surplus labor to be worked to death. This was one of the early solutions, but it just wasn't working fast enough.

There were also concentration camps, where people were to be housed and they were something more than ghettos. There were also show camps like Theresienstadt which showed humane treatment, comfortable surroundings, medical care and even art programs. But even this camp was more of a way station and most inmates eventually found themselves transported to extermination camps.

Extermination camps are Auschwitz-Birkenau, Terblinka and too many others to name. Nobody misunderstood the purpose of these camps. Sure they had amenities, those existed for the SS who ran the camps. People who arrived were either immediately sent to their death or worked to death if there was a need for labor. If the labor pool was full, anyone who arrived who might be fit for labor was simply executed.

Everyone at those locations understood what was happening, even Churchill received reports of the extermination of jews at "special camps" but he discounted the reports of Russian propaganda designed to motivate the west to invade Europe at an earlier date.

Now a lot of Germans didn't know what was happening. In fact the first inmates of Dachau (one of the first concentration camps) were Germans who complained about the treatment of Jews in Germany or otherwise learned of their actual treatment in camps outside Germany. And most of those camps were built in Poland because they didn't want to alarm the German people.

But don't kid yourself, everyone in Poland or Czechoslovakia who lived anywhere near an extermination camp understood full well what went on. Many of them worked as support staff to those camps as cooks, cleaners and other domestic help. Many of those people were glad to see their country being rid of jews.

Even France knew what was going on and without even being asked began a program of rounding up jews in France and deporting them to concentration or extermination camps. If you think nobody involved in that roundup understood what would happen to these people, you are kidding yourself.

The only people this was hidden from is the German people themselves and that isn't because they cared about the jews but because the nazis were worried that it might upset some who wouldn't support the wholesale execution of men, women and children but more importantly it might weaken resolve and support for the war. But even with that, LOTS of people even in Germany understood and accepted what was going on. Those that complained found themselves in Dachau.

And Germans were pretty much completely fine with German NON jews being held at Dachau for political reeducation, which sometimes ended in extermination so trust me nobody was losing sleep over jews in other camps.

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That's my whole point. Nazi Germany ended up all the way there to that level of evil, from the same starting point where Australia is at today.

As for the Einsatzgruppen in the far east, that started innocently enough, as well, at least from the German perspective at the time. There were resistance fighters in the east, just like in the western European occupied countries (France most famously). It just so happens that they were almost exclusively Jewish. Why?

Eastern European countries at that time were extremely antisemitic. Especially in the Ukraine where most of the Einsatzgruppen activity went down. So the ethnic Ukrainians saw the Germans as liberators from Communism, and understandably so, because they had suffered horribly under the Soviets, whereas the Jews saw the Nazis as their worst nightmare, as one can well imagine.

So the Einsatzgruppen were made up of mostly German police, as in former traffic cops from Berlin, along with recruits from the Ukrainian police. They weren't soldiers, they were all just ordinary traffic cops for the most part who were recruited into the SS, under the guise of keeping law and order in occupied territories, with an emphasis on arresting resistance. So essentially the mission as it was explained to them was pretty much identical to our own cops who went over to Iraq to work with and train the Iraqi police to investigate and arrest insurgency after the war was over.

Customary at the time, insurgents were shot on sight. They were arrested and summarily executed. So in their eyes, as Germans fighting a legitimate war, they were enforcing the law. They started out believing they were the good guys.

That devolved pretty quickly into mass executions of women and children. The Ukrainian police were the ones mostly doing the trigger pulling. The Jews had as a demographic been more sympathetic to communism than the ethnic Ukrainians, so they blamed the Jews for communism. They ate up all that Nazi propaganda. They wanted revenge. Very few German police actually participated, physically, in the murders. The ones present pretty much all became alcoholics and drug addicts and almost all of them had to be medically evacuated for mental health reasons. Even the commanders overseeing the operation from a desk suffered constant mental breakdowns and had to be rotated out.

As for the carbon monoxide mobile gas chambers in the early days of the final solution, even those began in what the perpetrators saw as a force for good. They were euthanizing the handicapped and mentally ill, and they had convinced themselves that it was the kind thing to do for those people. I'm not defending it, and those assholes were evil criminals who needed to be taken outback and shot, but I'm also here to tell you that people just like them are in no short supply within our own medical system here. There are tons of woke doctors now who would love nothing more than to show their "compassion" by murdering the handicapped. Actually, nowadays they want to murder them in the womb before they can even be born, now that that kind of testing is widely available. And they argue for post birth abortions for the ones who slip through the testing.

Point is, none of that stuff was premeditated. And all those Nazis considered themselves to be good, moral people. And at least in the beginning they all thought they were the good guys fighting evil. Some thought they were fighting a Jewish plot to take over the country. Some thought they were fighting disease. Some thought they were fighting insurgents in occupied territories. And not one of those people could really put their finger on the point in time when they became history's most reviled criminals.

But I'm here to tell you, that point started when they decided it was okay to round up a bunch of innocent people and put them in camps. That was the original crime that led to all the horrors of the Holocaust. And when a society decides it's okay to start rounding up innocent people at gunpoint, it's just embarked on the same path that the Nazis took, and all others like them.

ETA: I also don't deny that the death camps became places of overt extermination, or that the SS guards didn't know what was going on. By that point in the war, everyone knew what was going on, even the German civilians back home.

But getting there was a process, again, on the primrose path of good intentions. A million little steps led them there. Take Auschwitz for example. The site was an old Polish army barracks, and the Germans originally established it as a camp to hold Polish prisoners of war. There was also a point where they housed some ordinary criminals there, guilty of various crimes like theft and murder and the usual stuff people go to jail for.

As for the mass starvation, even that wasn't necessarily pre planned. There was a famine due to the war, as there always is, and everybody in Europe was starving. It had been their honest intention to feed the prisoners in those camps, but when it came down to feeding them or themselves, obviously they chose to feed themselves and let the prisoners starve.

It wasn't even the Nazi leadership's intent to imprison the Jews, originally. There were various attempts made to send them away, but due to worldwide antisemitism at the time they couldn't find a country willing to receive them, much less in those numbers. Once they realized they would have to imprison them inside German occupied territory, it's unclear even at that point whether the Nazi leadership was conspiring to murder them. Certainly the average cop or soldier had no knowledge of those plans, if they existed at that time.

Again, it was a journey of a thousand steps, by people who considered themselves good, and it all started with that original crime where they all convinced themselves that it was okay to round up a bunch of innocent men, women, and children.

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Originally Posted by okie

That's my whole point. Nazi Germany ended up all the way there to that level of evil, from the same starting point where Australia is at today.

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I understood that point, and I get that your main thing was nobody voted for death camps but they got them anyway.

I was just making sure nobody was buying into the "we didn't know" narrative that was pretty popular in post war Germany. The problem isn't that they built extermination camps, the problem was with how many people were perfectly fine with it.

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Originally Posted by tgizzard

We still have guns. I know people say Americans are too scared to use them

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I think as a whole we are a lot of talk and really afraid to use them but when you start to drag someones family away the it's on switch may get flipped. David

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Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

Now a lot of Germans didn't know what was happening. [Eventually many did indeed know what was going on] In fact the first inmates of Dachau (one of the first concentration camps) were Germans who complained about the treatment of Jews in Germany or otherwise learned of their actual treatment in camps outside Germany. And most of those camps were built in Poland because they didn't want to alarm the German people.

But don't kid yourself, everyone in Poland or Czechoslovakia or Germany who lived anywhere near an extermination camp understood full well what went on. Many of them worked as support staff to those camps as cooks, cleaners and other domestic help. Many of those people were glad to see their country being rid of jews.

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My FIL was in the 65th Infantry Division. They liberated the Mauthausen and Ohrdruf camps. In addition to some of the things they did or allowed to happen to SS prisoners as a result, Patton also ordered them to go into the surrounding towns and round up every able-bodied civilian. They were put on trucks and brought to the camps at gunpoint, forced to file by the stacks of bodies (FIL has pics, they're haunting) and then bury every last one of the bodies. My FIL said "You could smell that place from a mile away, those damn people couldn't convince me or anyone else that they didn't know what was happening".

He turned 96 on Veteran's Day and was awarded the French Legion of Merit the next day at their now-dwindling reunion at Camp Shelby, MS, where they had all trained before shipping out to Europe. He was always pretty straight-up with me when we've talked. With a little luck we'll see him at Christmas.

You know, it's probably relevant to bring up the Stanford Prison Experiment at this point. The Nazis didn't all get together one day and decide to murder millions of wrongfully imprisoned people, just like the guards in the experiment didn't all get together and decide they were going to abuse their classmates.

There are simply forces of nature, animal spirits, that take over when you violate people like this. Those cops and soldiers in Australia right now, following these orders, are no better than the Nazis who rounded up the Jews, and I personally find it more than a little convenient that the first people to be rounded up in Australia are mostly a racial minority. I doubt that was an accident on the planner's part. It's much easier to get away with these things when it's mostly happening to "other" people. And by the time they get around to classifying the average person as "other," then it's far too late in the game for them to do anything about it. That's why these sickos always start with a vulnerable group that's small in number, and that most people regard as being different from themselves.

There are rumors going around Twitter right now that some of these Australian soldiers are having to be put on leave for mental health because of what they're being forced to do. They know in their hearts and minds that they're committing a grave crime against humanity doing what they are. And they're correct, because history shows that anyone who can stomach rounding up innocent people, down the road, can stomach a whole lot more if it's allowed to go on long enough.