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I'm curious. I see blood type patches for attachment to MOLLE gear, hats shirts, etc. all over the range and in LEO training courses, and I dont understand the purpose of the patches.
In the military, would they really transfuse type-specific blood entirely based on a Velcro patch on the back of somebody's gear or clothing? That would never happen in a civilian medical setting, including law enforcement, I'm surprised the military would go for it.
To be rhetorical, who would wear a patch stating a blood type other than the wearers?
Uhhhhhh..... yes. CONUS, you're 60 min from bright lights and cold steal... not so much in combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmac
I was told by the medics that even with a dog tag that has your blood type they would still follow certain protocols. I don't remember the whole story.
Also made me wonder about why we had the patches or stuff marked on certain items.
You would be better off stating NKA or if you have allergies than your blood type.
This is true, but with the availability of IR glint patches that accomplish all tasks (Bloot Type/NKDA//NoPEN//Etc.), I'm not sure why that isn't the standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by CENTCOM_Survivor
Blood type patches are a waste of money - as well as being against Army uniform regulations.
Nobody will ever trust those patches - as someone noted above, even ID tags aren't trusted. EVERYONE gets typed/matched before receiving products - if it's an emergency, they will get O-NEG until their blood is typed, but nobody will ever trust tags (which run about 10% error) or patches.
Even NKDA and NoPEN are silly - those with drug allergies should (and are required to) wear red Allergy tags. If you don't have one, you are assumed to have NKDA - so why should anyone advertise it?
They will not be used to provide "typed" blood to a patient. Period.
A statistic has been floating around the community for years that even blood typing on dog tags were wrong somewhere in the level of 10%. As for blood tags, the tag could be wrong, the person wearing the gear may not be the owner of the tag/gear, etc. Way too many variables to trust a velcro tag to be correct.
Couple that with the fact that blood reactions are a very serious issue and not easy to manage in resource limited enviros like forward facilities AND the fact that type and crossing is easy to do in the field there is no reason not to type and cross immediately prior to a transfusion. At a minimum, typing should be done on the donor and recipient to confirm a theoretical match but the patient should still be monitored for a reaction.
Allergies are one thing, blood typing to me is not worth writing on your gear, granted I have a vest somewhere from years ago that has my blood type on it.
ETA: My earlier comments are based on in-facility treatment, there is a SOF protocol for in field transfusion with pre-mission confirmed typing. Anyone that I would consider a field donor/recipient without testing immediately prior to infusion would be typed using an Eldon card and put on a cheat sheet during pre-deployment prep.
Anytime I have carried a field transfusion kit Eldon cards have been part of the kit.
Patches may be of use in 3rd world (turd world) countries where you may not have Uncle Sam near by. For instance, in the Middle East, B seems to be the most common type, and since I am A+, I can't use any B.
I have friends working contracts here in Iraq where they are not DOD, and thus are forced to use the local medical sources if required. Not a good situation at all. Iraq is not at the forefront of medical care...
NKA or known allergy patches are probably more important in situations where you are unable to get to some form of definitive care and a medic is possibly having to use an analgesic or antibiotic on you.
Patches can be lost or removed. Using a sharpie is cheap and more durable.
The original concept was sound enough, as we first saw this emerge within the special operations community, where guys tended to work in small teams, in harm's way and in austere conditions. Knowing who else on the team might have a compatible blood type simply by sight was a legitimate benefit of this practice, but as with most things, conventional forces were quick to adopt it because of the perceived cool factor.
In this setting, of course, it was almost totally unnecessary, and commanders were quick to put an end to it. Like most things "tacticool," it went viral anyway, and gear manufacturers began to produce a variety of well-executed patches and tags which became standard kit for just about every tactical shooter in these United States.
As capably observed elsewhere, these patches provide no benefit in the overwhelming majority of situations (especially stateside), as (a) you will never be given a specific blood type based upon what you're wearing, and (b) there is almost always going to be an adequate supply of O-negative blood on hand. NKDA may be a more useful placard for those who wish to display something, but the whole blood type patch thing has basically become a fashion accessory for the masses, and little more.
AC
I-Ninja,
FWIW I am also A POS. Just make sure that I am around when the SHTF. :laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iraq Ninja
Ok. Indeed, pointless fashion accessory in the civilian world since no ER doc nor trauma surgeon is going to pay the slightest attention to any blood type information that doesn't come from their own lab. I can see the rationale in the narrow context of the special forces community, however.
having done two tours as a Military medical officer, it seems to be forgotten that the use of blood transfusions for military wounds is the exception rather than the rule. most wounded simply do not need blood and my aid station (not a hospital or fast team station) would simply stock a few units of o neg just in case. if you really need blood fast they will just grad o neg and give it -worrying about a type and cross later.
Funny. My unit, as retarded as it was, decided that the blood type was to go on the helmet band along with the name tape.
And I see it more as another "that's my gear" thing than actual blood type use. No different than putting your last four on the inside of your hat.
You could use blood type to differentiate between guys on leaders card without having to use their last four everywhere.
Ex: Smith A Pos and Smith B Neg.
...
As far as the 10% being inaccurate, that's government quality control at its finest.
Correct: Mike TQuote:
ETA: My earlier comments are based on in-facility treatment, there is a SOF protocol for in field transfusion with pre-mission confirmed typing.
Correct: Army ChiefQuote:
The original concept was sound enough, as we first saw this emerge within the special operations community, where guys tended to work in small teams, in harm's way and in austere conditions. Knowing who else on the team might have a compatible blood type simply by sight was a legitimate benefit of this practice, but as with most things, conventional forces were quick to adopt it because of the perceived cool factor.
When I was a corpsman no one did it until we saw Blackhawk Down. Then it became all the rage. It looked...cool. Policy/directives came out that we would only use dog tags, but that didn't dissuade Marines (and corpsman) from doing it. I thought it was funny because pretty much if you were going to get blood it was going to be O neg anyway.
Oh yes, I can attest to that. I'm O [rh D] Neg.......oh did I have a nice time being called to the hospital every few months during one particular two year tour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaver
It used to be the fashion amongst Brit Squaddies to have your type tattoed on your arm.
This is what I have always thought. Thanks for clearing that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaver
Does wearing a blood type patch hurt? Probably not, but I wouldnt expect medical treatment to be based on nylon and velcro either.
This is still the case in certain elite groups, but to my knowledge, it really started with the Waffen SS. At the time, Rh factors were still unknown, but the basic blood type (A, B ...) was tattoed on the inner left bicep. This unique identifying mark became something of a liability in the closing days of the war as Allied captors screened for this as a means of separating SS troopers (who often surrendered in regular Army uniforms to evade identification) from those of the regular Wehrmacht.Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Rheydt
AC
What an informative post. Without the military, I don't believe I would have ever found out on my own what my blood type is, and now you guys are saying that even what was stamped into my tags could have been wrong?
I'm LE now, and I wrote my blood type on my soft armor in black marker, though I didn't think that here in the US where resources and higher level medical facilities should be close at hand first responders would go on something like that either.
I'm also A POS.
Correct. NO US hospital would ever give you type-specific blood based on something that you had on your dog tags, velcro'd to your pack, magic marker'd on your armor, or tattooed on your forehead. And NO civilian US EMS service carries blood or blood products on their ambulances anyway, so blood administration by a first responder would never happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGSteve
My original question was whether or not such a thing could happen in the military. I am relieved to find out that, with the possible exception of some very special circumstances, the military wouldn't do it either.
We never look at 'em. At my Combat Support Hospital, everyone gets a Type & Screen. I can't think of a single reason as to why anybody in CONUS America, or Iraq or Afghanistan needs to have their blood type on anything. Every Hospital will run a Type & Screen regardless of Dog Tags, Sharpie Boots, Velcro Tabs or Tattoos (I've seen it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmac
blood-type patches are on par with CCW "badges."
as somebody else said- if it wasn't for Blackhawk Down, this never would have happened. we've all observed what happens- a popular movie or videogame will reveal some special-operations idiosyncrasy (real or not), and it pretty much immediately starts popping up on the range, in soldier's footlockers, and at gunshows.
recoiling from pretense and affectation, i cant ****ing stand them. as stated, they're 100% for appearance.. aside from situations Ninja presented, NOBODY is going to trust a velcro patch on your shoulder, nor even see it, before your shirt is cut off and thrown in the trash.
"this guy is losing a lot of blood- we'd better type him, STAT. wait! by job, i've got something! he's wearing a blood-type patch! put that needle away!" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: