S&W M&P 2.0 9MM Compact Accuracy Issue Sanity Check - New Sight Update

Update for 2020;

Sent gun to S&W, they sent it back, no problems found, so not the gun.
Went to rental range, shot same gun, got same groupings, however most other guns rented I was able to shoot acceptable groupings.
So the gun was not broke, and I'm surer then ever it's not me.

Take gun that came back from S&W out to try again and brainstorm wtf it could be. I initially thought it was just the trigger; while the 2.0 trigger is FAR better than the old 1.0, it's still a bit "meh" in some areas, and I KNOW that I've never had a problem hitting anything with my old 1.0 compact w/ Apex DCAEK, unless I f*** it up. In fact that gun is almost uncannily accurate for some weird reason... So first thought was "replace trigger with known item that works for me".

However...also going through my head were the sight pictures of all the other pistols I rented, especially the Stac-P, and I'm thinking man, those sights were crisp...
And then it hit me... I'm standing outside in broad daylight with the M&P, and I'm having a hard time lining up on the bullseye (which is the size of a spray paint can) at a whopping 10 yards, because the front sight is covering most of it, and the the sights feel "close" as far as space between the front blade and rear notch sides.
I realized that my groups where everywhere, because I can't tell clearly where the sights are lining up.
I started shooting in sort of a "general direction", essentially treating the sight as one solid block, and while the group was still left, it started to tighten up.

I know that sounds totally stupid and impossible, but that's the best way I can describe it.
Ironically, the sights were the first thing I picked out on day 1 about 50 rounds in when the head-scratching began, then I started second-guessing like I always do. :rolleyes:

So, I immediately tracked down the sights the STI had on it from Dawson, turns out their M&P options were a little different, and the one I [thought I] wanted was special order, so I started looking around for what else was on the market.
I already knew I didn't need tritium, and while I have always had good results with fiber optic, I've also broken them/seen others break them (I mean, FFS, the Dawson fiber optic on the rental Stac-P was gone already), and don't trust them as far as I can throw them.
Not interested in solid/black front sights because I do like something to draw the eye and pop a little.

Also, after obsessive measuring and comparing, it seemed the rear sight on the M&P was more or less an average/middle of the road/not that bad notch width option, so I decided to save a little money and try a new front sight first; I figured I could always replace the rear later if I needed more notch.

I remembered 10-8, saw some good reviews of their Brass bead front, and it came in a narrower width option that I wanted, so decided to take a gamble.

After some hassle figuring out the install which I won't bore you all with further, I got them on, and so far so good.

From a rest, my groups improved dramatically (which is saying something, because I couldn't get a cohesive, repeatable group no matter what I did previously with the factory sights), and now that I could actually SEE between my sights, it turns out the front sight only needed a couple extra taps to the right to center everything up- much less adjustment that I thought it would need originally.

I've got to admit, I'm also pretty sold on the brass bead idea as well. Has a nice low-key "pop" under daylight- not the "red dot" sort of brightness you'll get with a fiber optic, but right between that and a solid black front sight.

Ironically #2, I never had a problem with the old 1.0 M&P factory sights, and still don't. There's just *something* about the new ones that doesn't work for me eyes. Go figure.

The other thing I've noticed is that I prefer the old 1.0 M&P grip, smooth plastic with the mild-textured rubberized grip insert vs the new stippled/over-textured grip. I found I had to consciously make an effort to grip the gun a little tighter, because with the stabby texture my brain is already saying "you're grabbing it to hard/inducing shaking and other accuracy-harming effects, etc".
So the sandpaper will be paying the gun a visit in the future.

I may still go with an Apex trigger IF I have a chance in the future, but as I suspected, a simple front sight swap seems to have gotten it to an acceptably shootable standard for now. Will give me some breathing room to shoot it more, and "figure it out" before changing anything else.


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I'm frankly a bit stumped with this right now, so since I have no idea where to start with this...here goes;

Please see attached picture montage for TL/DR and reference.

Recently got an M&P 2.0 9MM Compact 4" since Aimsurplus had a price that was just to good to pass up.
Bring it home, look it over, disassemble and check, etc, I see no bent things, no obvious machining marks, rifling looks clean in barrel, etc.
Give a very light lube with EWL, off to the range...

First few rounds, shooting way left. I figure, ok, new gun, different trigger, different size grip, probably just me. Relax, try again, paying more attention to trigger and sight alignment. Now shooting left AND low, at a whopping 10 yards. Odd, but I'm sure it HAS to be me, so load some more ammo, keep going- no improvement- POINTING center mass, but shooting left/low with occasional flyer back to center.
Ok, must be backstrap is to small for my hand; swap from #2 to #3 (#4 is just a bit to fat, #1 way to thin).
More pew; essentially same results, perhaps a bit lower even.WTF.

This continues for 100 rounds; I tried EVERYTHING; paying close attention to sight alignment, different backstraps, every possible finger position on trigger.
At this point, I'm sure I'm just failboating- I don't claim to be the best pistol shooter ever, and I'm a bit out of practice, so I bust out a couple different pistols to check against- a G17 (factory stock accept for gripforce adapter and Triji sight that I zeroed MYSELF) and M&P 1.0 Compact (also factory stock except for DCAEK and it has the Large backstrap). So two other pistols both significantly different in size, grip, sights and trigger press from the M&P 2.0...
Shoot a few rounds; within the limits of my ability, everything is MAGICALLY fine (SEE PICS #1 and 2)
So now sure that I CAN indeed still center-mass my groups, I go back to the M&P 2.0- exact same results- left, low and everywhere.
PER THE ATTACHED PICTURES- (see #3 and 4 for example). The shots are consistently left, with me POINTING the sights center mass, and applying decent fundamentals, with the occasional FLYER back to center.... It is so weird.

THESE ARE NOT the only groups I shot that day- the others were even MORE random, these just show the left/low consistency the best. Also I may have thrown out a couple of the other targets in a fit of pique...:rolleyes::o
It was like, 80% consistently left or low/left, AND THEN, out of nowhere, I'd get an "almost center mass" group (similar to PIC #5) and think "AHA! it IS me" and then the very next group was right back to left-left-left, DESPITE me doing the EXACT same thing that SEEMED to get me a "good" group.

So I have no idea what the hell is going on at this point.
I can still center-group consistently with other pistols, all of which vary significantly from the 2.0, which means to me, none of that accessory stuff matters that much.

So I think, ok, duh, sights are off, I'll fix that easily. Measure sights with caliper- sights are fine, about as centered as can be. Rear sight set screw is tight, space on either side of front sight is 6.44mm and 6.33mm , so a 0.11mm difference. Given this pistol is off by almost 2" at 10 yards, I'm pretty sure correcting this via sight adjustment is going to be a FAR bigger adjustment than 0.11mm at ten yards, right?
I mean, do the math with the pictures below- at 15-20-etc yards, the groups would either be completely off the paper or shotgun sized...

I have literally NEVER had a pistol be off with the factory sights, especially by this much, and that includes the plethora of beater rentals I've shot over the years.
COULD I HAVE GOTTEN A BLEM GUN? The magazines that came with it had a red stripe markered down the center of the follower (SEE PIC)- I have never gotten any other M&P magazine that has ANY mark anywhere on the magazine...???
Honestly the price was a little to good to be true, BUT...I trust Aim and the page did not say anything about it being anything other than factory new. I have not heard of any major complaints about accuracy in the 2.0 line either...

So today I went back out and printed some groups for reference with the G17 and M&P 1.0, and then shot a final group with the M&P 2.0 just to make myself feel good.
At ten yards, with the #3 backstrap that feels the best for my hand, and doing my best to apply good fundamentals, I got one of those "meh" "almost centered" groups I was talking about earlier, compared to the other two (last picture in montage). Considering the 100 rounds of low- left-and everywhere the other day, I am almost sure this was a fluke group, and were I to continue the results would be the same as before, BUT I posted it anyway, because even though I managed to reasonably center everything, the group is STILL easily twice the size of groups with the 1.0 Compact and G17.

I really have no idea what to do with this thing at this point, whether to give it another 100 rounds and see if it improves at all, or call S&W...
What so you folks think?

Attachment 59531
Attachment 59532

For the 3 very wild "pulled" shots in the #2 1.0 M&P Compact group pic- it was windy today, and although I started shooting during a lull, there were a couple nice gusts mid-string. So, yeah....good job me. :rolleyes: The rest of the group should give a good enough general idea though.

Where in VA?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Business_Casual

Where in VA?

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Considerably further south than Alexandria, I'm afraid. Check inbox.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jellybean

I'm frankly a bit stumped with this right now, so since I have no idea where to start with this...here goes;

Please see attached picture montage for TL/DR and reference.

Recently got an M&P 2.0 9MM Compact 4" since Aimsurplus had a price that was just to good to pass up.
Bring it home, look it over, disassemble and check, etc, I see no bent things, no obvious machining marks, rifling looks clean in barrel, etc.
Give a very light lube with EWL, off to the range...

First few rounds, shooting way left. I figure, ok, new gun, different trigger, different size grip, probably just me. Relax, try again, paying more attention to trigger and sight alignment. Now shooting left AND low, at a whopping 10 yards. Odd, but I'm sure it HAS to be me, so load some more ammo, keep going- no improvement- POINTING center mass, but shooting left/low with occasional flyer back to center.
Ok, must be backstrap is to small for my hand; swap from #2 to #3 (#4 is just a bit to fat, #1 way to thin).
More pew; essentially same results, perhaps a bit lower even.WTF.

This continues for 100 rounds; I tried EVERYTHING; paying close attention to sight alignment, different backstraps, every possible finger position on trigger.
At this point, I'm sure I'm just failboating- I don't claim to be the best pistol shooter ever, and I'm a bit out of practice, so I bust out a couple different pistols to check against- a G17 (factory stock accept for gripforce adapter and Triji sight that I zeroed MYSELF) and M&P 1.0 Compact (also factory stock except for DCAEK and it has the Large backstrap). So two other pistols both significantly different in size, grip, sights and trigger press from the M&P 2.0...
Shoot a few rounds; within the limits of my ability, everything is MAGICALLY fine (SEE PICS #1 and 2)
So now sure that I CAN indeed still center-mass my groups, I go back to the M&P 2.0- exact same results- left, low and everywhere.
PER THE ATTACHED PICTURES- (see #3 and 4 for example). The shots are consistently left, with me POINTING the sights center mass, and applying decent fundamentals, with the occasional FLYER back to center.... It is so weird.

THESE ARE NOT the only groups I shot that day- the others were even MORE random, these just show the left/low consistency the best. Also I may have thrown out a couple of the other targets in a fit of pique...:rolleyes::o
It was like, 80% consistently left or low/left, AND THEN, out of nowhere, I'd get an "almost center mass" group (similar to PIC #5) and think "AHA! it IS me" and then the very next group was right back to left-left-left, DESPITE me doing the EXACT same thing that SEEMED to get me a "good" group.

So I have no idea what the hell is going on at this point.
I can still center-group consistently with other pistols, all of which vary significantly from the 2.0, which means to me, none of that accessory stuff matters that much.

So I think, ok, duh, sights are off, I'll fix that easily. Measure sights with caliper- sights are fine, about as centered as can be. Rear sight set screw is tight, space on either side of front sight is 6.44mm and 6.33mm , so a 0.11mm difference. Given this pistol is off by almost 2" at 10 yards, I'm pretty sure correcting this via sight adjustment is going to be a FAR bigger adjustment than 0.11mm at ten yards, right?
I mean, do the math with the pictures below- at 15-20-etc yards, the groups would either be completely off the paper or shotgun sized...

I have literally NEVER had a pistol be off with the factory sights, especially by this much, and that includes the plethora of beater rentals I've shot over the years.
COULD I HAVE GOTTEN A BLEM GUN? The magazines that came with it had a red stripe markered down the center of the follower (SEE PIC)- I have never gotten any other M&P magazine that has ANY mark anywhere on the magazine...???
Honestly the price was a little to good to be true, BUT...I trust Aim and the page did not say anything about it being anything other than factory new. I have not heard of any major complaints about accuracy in the 2.0 line either...

So today I went back out and printed some groups for reference with the G17 and M&P 1.0, and then shot a final group with the M&P 2.0 just to make myself feel good.
At ten yards, with the #3 backstrap that feels the best for my hand, and doing my best to apply good fundamentals, I got one of those "meh" "almost centered" groups I was talking about earlier, compared to the other two (last picture in montage). Considering the 100 rounds of low- left-and everywhere the other day, I am almost sure this was a fluke group, and were I to continue the results would be the same as before, BUT I posted it anyway, because even though I managed to reasonably center everything, the group is STILL easily twice the size of groups with the 1.0 Compact and G17.

I really have no idea what to do with this thing at this point, whether to give it another 100 rounds and see if it improves at all, or call S&W...
What so you folks think?

Attachment 59531
Attachment 59532

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I've seen the line in the magazine follower on plenty of guns the shoot fine.

Try using a stable rest to shoot from, like a table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taekwondopreacher

I've seen the line in the magazine follower on plenty of guns the shoot fine.

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All my M&P mags have a line on them, Shield to 2.0 Compact and 1.0 FS. All 9mm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam

Try using a stable rest to shoot from, like a table.

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Tried that too. Same confusing results.
I don't know... maybe it just doesn't like me. I've had that happen with one or two other pistols over the years. My first pistol, an XDm, I could not hit the broad side of a barn with, even though it shot fine for other people, then when I went back to Glock/M&P/FN/etc... magically everything was fine again.
Pistols have always been the bane of my shooting adventures, and I am SO over it all...I have not spent more time, money and exasperation on ANY other hobby, weapon, or accessory than pistols.
I think I'm gonna just OC an AR-pistol and give up on the rest forever... F*** it. :mad: :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWH24

All my M&P mags have a line on them, Shield to 2.0 Compact and 1.0 FS. All 9mm.

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Alright cool, good to know. None of the other M&P mags I've owned or used have it so I was just curious if it was denoting something specific. I guess not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jellybean

Alright cool, good to know. None of the other M&P mags I've owned or used have it so I was just curious if it was denoting something specific. I guess not.

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The line on the follower denotes some kind of QC check. Mags that came with my M&P9 1.0 had them as well but separately purchased mags didn’t have the mark.