Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen
Yeah, Browning's new "Kinematic" system is a blatent copy of Benelli's "Inertia" system, which is OK, since Benelli's patent has run out.
I'm curious (not trolling): Why don't you like Benelli?
FWIW, I think the Benelli M2 has become a kind of shotgun equivalent of the 1911 or Glock or the AR in terms of aftermarket support.
The Benelli inertia system is not a recoil operated system, at least not in the sense that other recoil operated systems have moving barrels. I do very much like my M2. Its like the M4 of shotguns. Its the only one I need for everything from HD to geese to clay games. I’ve owned many shotguns, but there’s only been one steady fixture in my safe, and thats the M2.
I don't understand the interest in recoil operated shotguns. They may have been more reliable than gas operated shotguns in the past, but I'll take a 1301 today.
Autoloaders are either gas- or recoil-operated. The Benelli is recoil-operated. Their trademarked "Inertia" system just delays the opening of the bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1168
Modern gas guns are nice, no doubt, but recoil-operation means that there's no filthy gas system to worry about or clean, ever. Also, it keeps the forend more narrow, if you worry about that sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd.K
I won two Benellis in the late 80's/ early 90's. They were well-liked even then and I wanted to like them too but I found that for me they were not reliable with all loads as advertised and they seemed darned complicated to run (in fairness, the Browning automatics are far from being able to run all loads at least not without adjusting the friction piece) I like a shotgun with no lifter to contend with but if it must have one, I don't want to have to push a button for every round I insert. As I recall that has to be done on a Benelli or at least it did back then (these might have been M1 Super 90's, that is ringing a bell, or the next model after that). On a Rem 11 or Auto 5 with the two-piece lifter, well that is the cat's butt in convenience.
For competition using buckshot/slugs the 1100 / 1187 and for a time the Winchester Super X became popular. Softer to shoot no doubt but I saw so many go down, like they just weren't built very durable. Not offering that as fact, just my impression. All of which kept me with a pump. A disadvantage sometimes, yes, but I so despise a gun that doens't work reliably that I'll take the disadvantage in exchange for knowing it's going to function.
Not dissing Benellis-- I see how popular they still are and I figure that many people, maybe there's something to it. I just never tried one again and these days I really don't have a big need for a new competition shotgun. I do though enjoy dabbling in the old ones. There's something about taking apart a Rem 11 that was made before the Titanic sank and finding grunge in there that was already old when the Great Depression struck.....
I hear you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen
My very first long gun, when I was a poor student in the early '90s, was an IBM M1 Carbine. I'd like to know it's story.
I don't shoot it much anymore, but it was my "go-to" rifle until its bolt broke in 2008. I fixed it, but then I also decided to "upgrade" to an AR.
Much wisdom here !
I have a 21 year old M1 Super 90 and no button needs to be pressed to load the shotgun or to unload it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen
Interestingly, the later Chicom M97 Trench Gun clones had Missouri walnut furniture.
OK to bring this one back I hope, as it seems to have generated some interest.
The Winchester 1911...... shotgun. Many elements in its design are the way they are simply to avoid violating patents held by that one guy.... John something.....
....and all the more fascinating for it. Long recoil but not of the Remington Model 11 design, not exactly anyway. Hard to believe now that a simple thing like a charging handle on the side was patent-protected, but it was. Hence the funky fore-end plunger charging on the Winchester WSL rifles, and on the Winchester 1911 shotgun (same designer did all these), you charge it by grasping a knurled portion on the barrel and stroking it back. Different, eh!?
If you search it and read up on it you'll see they called it the "Widowmaker". Now having handled one a bit I think that is complete bunk.