DHS Says be Ready for 6 MONTHS with No Power, Medical, Fuel, Cash, Food, Water ETC...

Report from DHS talking about how our electrical grid is a target for frequent hacking and leaves large parts of the nation vulnerable to extended outages and resultant issues in the flow of goods and services.


https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...08%20FINAL.pdf



From the Executive Summary portion:

After interviews with dozens of senior leaders and
experts and an extensive review of studies and statutes,
we found that existing national plans, response
resources, and coordination strategies would be
outmatched by a catastrophic power outage. This
profound risk requires a new national focus. Significant
public and private action is needed to prepare for and
recover from a catastrophic outage that could leave the
large parts of the nation without power for weeks or
months, and cause service failures in other sectors—
including water and wastewater, communications,
transportation, healthcare, and financial services—that
are critical to public health and safety and our national
and economic security.



I hope to God people actually take notice....

Winter would certainly be a very bad time to lose electricity for an extended period of time.

People would go NUTS if they were unable to drool on their cell phones for one day... let alone weeks/months.

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Originally Posted by markm

People would go NUTS if they were unable to drool on their cell phones for one day... let alone weeks/months.

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Biggest issue would be that people use their phones as their source of all information. Seriously, they call with it- keep every piece of Contact Information they have in it- passwords for websites, friends/family numbers and Email... they look at the weather, surf internet, listen to radio, some even have police scanner apps etc......without that they would be "blind"...and scared, and pissed off.

Cell phones would be the least of peoples problems....a growing pain that would be swiftly subsided by real pain....

Don't be so blind, if in the highly improbable event that the grid were to go down, that it isn't sourced domestically. There have been murmurs within of a false flag going back to arguable the most credible utterance in 2016 of this...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sabre675

Cell phones would be the least of peoples problems....a growing pain that would be swiftly subsided by real pain....

Don't be so blind, if in the highly improbable event that the grid were to go down, that it isn't sourced domestically. There have been murmurs within of a false flag going back to arguable the most credible utterance in 2016 of this...

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Doesn't really matter WHO takes it down in terms of the effect- which is what the report is about- what people need to expect if it DOES go down.

I opened this thread thinking somehow they were going to blame Trump because there might be a government shutdown.

Even though I keep up with this issue and definitely believe our power grid is virtually unprotected, I'm suspicious at the timing of this.

It must be a Deep State attempt to frighten people into believing we just have to get rid of Trump.

Sorry, the cynicism is strong with this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Esq.

Doesn't really matter WHO takes it down in terms of the effect- which is what the report is about- what people need to expect if it DOES go down.

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Oh contraire mon frere... Especially if it is in line with a false flag in regards to a bigger issue... much on this if you scratch the surface in regards to the deep state and economic collapse. Hard to keep a lid on or complete bullshit...Improbable, especially from an outside source imho, but viable domestically for a toe into marshal law for a mass civil unrest protocol at their choosing...but you'd have to go into tinfoil hatish rabbit hole if you want to get the synopsis...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sabre675

Oh contraire mon frere... Especially if it is in line with a false flag in regards to a bigger issue... much on this if you scratch the surface in regards to the deep state and economic collapse. Hard to keep a lid on or complete bullshit...Improbable, especially from an outside source imho, but viable domestically for a toe into marshal law for a mass civil unrest protocol at their choosing...but you'd have to go into tinfoil hatish rabbit hole if you want to get the synopsis...

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At the level that it effects you or me....It doesn't matter. I need to be able to feed my people, protect them, gather information etc....I don't care about the rest of it, I need to care for me and mine.

Whether that is from Government boogey men or the Harem of Soccer Moms from the next cul de sac over after my Lifetime supply of Astrolglide..... MY problems, are the same no matter who shuts out the lights. Nobody is going to make me the "New President" etc....I'm just a guy with no power when I flip my light switch, strangers who want my shit and people I love and care about that I need to take care of.

To harvest a few weeds or a 100 acres of a poppy field, a wasp or a swarm, a penny or a pound, all the same ehh... Makes sense...One tire tracking left, the other right. Carry on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doc Safari

I opened this thread thinking somehow they were going to blame Trump because there might be a government shutdown. Even though I keep up with this issue and definitely believe our power grid is virtually unprotected, I'm suspicious at the timing of this. It must be a Deep State attempt to frighten people into believing we just have to get rid of Trump.

Sorry, the cynicism is strong with this one.

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Dude... reading comprehension is tough and all, but the President Trump’s National Security Council specifically requested this. They are deep State because, you know, most of them were personally appointed by President Trump. They work about 60 yards west and ten yards vertical of the Oval Office. Ergo, Trump himself is the deep state plant.

Clearly you did not read said report, nor watch the webcast of the report presentation nor have any informed basis for your opinion.

Seriously, read the report. It is good and based on real expertise from people who appear to actually trying to protect the nation.

I skimmed through the report. It looks like justification for the federal government to establish regulatory authority over the entire nations power grid in the name of “national security”.

The only reasons the lights would be out for years would be the fact that substation transformers are extremely expensive, no power company keeps enough on hand to replace everything at once and the involvement of the federal government.

Trust me, the grid isn’t as delicate as they want you to believe. There is equipment in service that was installed in the 20’s. How many solar storms have there been in the last hundred years? You can splice wire, fuses are replaceable, and transformers are virtual faraday cages. Unless someone figures out how to stop aluminum and copper from conducting electricity, we’ll be fine.

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Originally Posted by Inkslinger

Winter would certainly be a very bad time to lose electricity for an extended period of time.

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I thought so too until 2014 winter when we lost power for two weeks during a major snow/ice storm. Then a my heater died in two years later the middle of an especially cold winter. Winters in Pa are cold but this one was colder than avg. Couldn't get it fixed for over two weeks. Both times the weather was in the teens during the day but in the house it was 55°. I was walking around in sweat pants and a t-shirt. Not saying it's great but more than doable. Of course if you live further north it may be worse

Just a quick look shows there are enough solar flares that there is a yearly top 50 list.

Be prepared for anomalies, but a long term outage shouldn’t be something that you lose sleep over.

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Originally Posted by markm

People would go NUTS if they were unable to drool on their cell phones for one day... let alone weeks/months.

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Winter of 2014 our area lost power and wasn't completely restored for close to a month. I was without power for two weeks. My work was without power for about 2.5 weeks. This is a big metro area. Close to a million people in a small area. In the month without power nothing happened. No one was killed, no looting, no robing, stores didn't sell out of everything overnight. What you saw was bored people going to malls, stores and generally hanging out in indoor places with power. Bars were packed from morning to night and majority of people were in happy spirits talking about the weather and their unplanned "vacations". Everyone just went about their life as best as they could while a pretty positive outlook

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Esq.

Biggest issue would be that people use their phones as their source of all information. Seriously, they call with it- keep every piece of Contact Information they have in it- passwords for websites, friends/family numbers and Email... they look at the weather, surf internet, listen to radio, some even have police scanner apps etc......without that they would be "blind"...and scared, and pissed off.

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Car charger! That's what I did when we lost power for two weeks. Also malls and stores with generators.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arik

Winter of 2014 our area lost power and wasn't completely restored for close to a month. I was without power for two weeks. My work was without power for about 2.5 weeks. This is a big metro area. Close to a million people in a small area. In the month without power nothing happened. No one was killed, no looting, no robing, stores didn't sell out of everything overnight. What you saw was bored people going to malls, stores and generally hanging out in indoor places with power. Bars were packed from morning to night and majority of people were in happy spirits talking about the weather and their unplanned "vacations". Everyone just went about their life as best as they could while a pretty positive outlook

Car charger! That's what I did when we lost power for two weeks. Also malls and stores with generators.

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So people just went to where there was power..... right?

What would they have done if that was not an option?

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Originally Posted by docsherm

So people just went to where there was power..... right?

What would they have done if that was not an option?

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I don't know where everyone went. I'm sure some went to work. The stores near me we're running large tractor trailer size generators.

A few times I went to the bar. Mostly stayed home and did things I was putting off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jsp10477

I skimmed through the report. It looks like justification for the federal government to establish regulatory authority over the entire nations power grid in the name of “national security”.

The only reasons the lights would be out for years would be the fact that substation transformers are extremely expensive, no power company keeps enough on hand to replace everything at once and the involvement of the federal government.

Trust me, the grid isn’t as delicate as they want you to believe. There is equipment in service that was installed in the 20’s. How many solar storms have there been in the last hundred years? You can splice wire, fuses are replaceable, and transformers are virtual faraday cages. Unless someone figures out how to stop aluminum and copper from conducting electricity, we’ll be fine.

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According to a leading expert on the subject, who has testified before Congress almost begging them to re-enforce the grid..you are DEAD WRONG.
Author of the excellent, and imo mandatory read ONE SECOND AFTER and an expert on the subject of EMP William R. Forstchen, has repeatedly said we are in dire straights should an emp of man-made or natural occurrence happen.
READ THIS BOOK- I did in one setting, could not put it down. He had or has a website at one time, cannot recall it now, where he explains our weaknesses, and provides proof that our enemies are WELL AWARE of them ,too.
I saw the guy speak on this subject o C-SPAN about 8-10 years ago or so to a room full of the highest ranking military officers in America, some of them said they too had been begging for attention to our grid. Unless something has been done undercover in the past few years to re-enforce it, the grid is very vulnerable still.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markm

People would go NUTS if they were unable to drool on their cell phones for one day... let alone weeks/months.

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Brother- Im telling you now..24/48 hours of no cell service, youd see a huge portion of this country..young-uns & millennial's mostly but not exclusively, go apeshit crazy. They are literally, in every sense of the word..addicted. They would be utterly lost.
Those of us blessed to have lived a vast majority of our lives without the f-in things, KNOW they are only a convenience.. these young-uns have never known a life without them. They'll have a mental breakdown. Ive seen it already with kids who've had phones removed for punishment, or broke a phone, or for some reason was without one just temporarily.
Gonna be a hard row to hoe should something long term happen, but a huge portion of people just aint gonna make it.

I've been doing medical missionary work in Haiti for more than two decades. Years ago...kids in the little towns we served would follow us around begging for money for food for their families. Starting about 7-8 years ago, they stopped asking for food money and started asking for money for cell phone minutes. The predominant service provider, DigiCel, very cleverly established a pay-as-you-go process that allowed for simple purchasing of re-loadable minutes, but more cleverly set it up so that anyone with minutes on their phone could transfer to them to anyone else, which made the begging for minutes even more intense. Food is certainly not any less of a problem there, but it's interesting how these impoverished folks in rural Haiti now prioritize communication over eating.

Food for thought indeed....

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Originally Posted by Straight Shooter

According to a leading expert on the subject, who has testified before Congress almost begging them to re-enforce the grid..you are DEAD WRONG.
Author of the excellent, and imo mandatory read ONE SECOND AFTER and an expert on the subject of EMP William R. Forstchen, has repeatedly said we are in dire straights should an emp of man-made or natural occurrence happen.
READ THIS BOOK- I did in one setting, could not put it down. He had or has a website at one time, cannot recall it now, where he explains our weaknesses, and provides proof that our enemies are WELL AWARE of them ,too.
I saw the guy speak on this subject o C-SPAN about 8-10 years ago or so to a room full of the highest ranking military officers in America, some of them said they too had been begging for attention to our grid. Unless something has been done undercover in the past few years to re-enforce it, the grid is very vulnerable still.

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Do you know anything about electric distribution? If not, all you can do is read. Know anything about arrestors? How a transformer is made? Grounding systems? If you do, let’s talk about it.

One second after? Read it.

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Originally Posted by Jsp10477

Do you know anything about electric distribution? If not, all you can do is read. Know anything about arrestors? How a transformer is made? Grounding systems? If you do, let’s talk about it.

One second after? Read it.

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So, Im asking..do you totally discount the author's opinions & facts? How much, if any credence, do you give to EMP, natural or man-made, as a threat?Yes, all I can do on the subject of EMP is read info by people established, educated & respected in their field.
Again, not being argumentative..Id like your opinion on both the book & the authors facts. Also- we've got another thread down below this one:
"Dec 2018 update: Authoritative EMP engineering info".
This thread has MANY links to other reports as recent as 9OCT18 & 10DEC18..this one entitled: "Electric Grid prime target for terrorists".
Are ALL these USG reports wrong? Are ALL the military brass & civilian experts Ive read & heard wrong?
Id seriously like you take on this, thank you.

I’ll preface this post with the fact that I am not a college educated electrical engineer. I base my opinion on experience from years as an electrical contractor for one of the largest energy companies in the southeast. I’ve worked overhead and underground primary distribution, overhead and underground secondary services, metering, etc. My opinions are mine and I do not in any way speak for the company that employs me or any of the companies we have contracts with.

EMP’s fry delicate circuitry since it cannot bleed off surges. Consumer products, phones, lap tops, radios, TV sets, home medical devices and appliances will be what is most affected. Like I stated earlier, as long as copper and aluminum conduct electricity, distribution and transmission conductors wouldn’t need replaced.

https://www.bluestemelectric.com/sit...20a%20Pole.jpg

Note that there are arrestors to bleed off surges. Everything is tied back to main line neutrals and earth grounds.

Here’s a quick look at substation arrestors.
https://youtu.be/DW3pEv--5w8

These types of protections are integrated all throughout our grid.

Transformers are sealed metal housings that are directly tied to earth grounds and system neutrals. The windings inside are insulated from the housing/tank and submerged in non conductive oil. This is the case for overhead, underground, network, and substation transformers.

Direct physical attacks can shut down an entire substation or transmission circuit. The thing is, power companies guard their stations when terror alerts are elevated. If one actually went down due to an attack, you can bet the rest will have an armed presence. Transmission right of ways are maintained and could be patrolled. Corporate security isn’t just for escorting terminated employees off the premises. Why is the DOE an armed gov agency? It isn’t just for competing in sniper comps. Back on track, so when a station or circuit is damaged, it’s repaired and switched back into service.

Natural disasters could pose a greater threat than EMP due to actually destroying lines and equipment. Even so, natural disasters are small relative to the size of the country. I don’t see a nation wide wildfire, hurricane, earthquake, tornado, or ice storm. The Yellowstone caldera would be a different beast though.

So let’s see, hackers have broken into financial institutes, intel agencies, political parties, etc but no one has shut down a generation plant? Wonder why?

Are the “experts” more credible than I? Yes. As stated above, I have no credentials. Is there money to be made buy selling stories of calamities that drum up fear in people? Yes. Would our government fund research that shows our grid is in danger then use said research as a reason to establish regulating authority over the nations electric grid? Lol, we all know the answer.

If the gov wants to help in an emergency, do what they’re doing now, provide funds, waive hours of service laws, and let the power companies handle their systems.

I’ll read the other thread as time allows. Lots of family gatherings going on for the Christmas holiday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jsp10477

I’ll preface this post with the fact that I am not a college educated electrical engineer. I base my opinion on experience from years as an electrical contractor for one of the largest energy companies in the southeast. I’ve worked overhead and underground primary distribution, overhead and underground secondary services, metering, etc. My opinions are mine and I do not in any way speak for the company that employs me or any of the companies we have contracts with.

EMP’s fry delicate circuitry since it cannot bleed off surges. Consumer products, phones, lap tops, radios, TV sets, home medical devices and appliances will be what is most affected. Like I stated earlier, as long as copper and aluminum conduct electricity, distribution and transmission conductors wouldn’t need replaced.

https://www.bluestemelectric.com/sit...20a%20Pole.jpg

Note that there are arrestors to bleed off surges. Everything is tied back to main line neutrals and earth grounds.

Here’s a quick look at substation arrestors.
https://youtu.be/DW3pEv--5w8

These types of protections are integrated all throughout our grid.

Transformers are sealed metal housings that are directly tied to earth grounds and system neutrals. The windings inside are insulated from the housing/tank and submerged in non conductive oil. This is the case for overhead, underground, network, and substation transformers.

Direct physical attacks can shut down an entire substation or transmission circuit. The thing is, power companies guard their stations when terror alerts are elevated. If one actually went down due to an attack, you can bet the rest will have an armed presence. Transmission right of ways are maintained and could be patrolled. Corporate security isn’t just for escorting terminated employees off the premises. Why is the DOE an armed gov agency? It isn’t just for competing in sniper comps. Back on track, so when a station or circuit is damaged, it’s repaired and switched back into service.

Natural disasters could pose a greater threat than EMP due to actually destroying lines and equipment. Even so, natural disasters are small relative to the size of the country. I don’t see a nation wide wildfire, hurricane, earthquake, tornado, or ice storm. The Yellowstone caldera would be a different beast though.

So let’s see, hackers have broken into financial institutes, intel agencies, political parties, etc but no one has shut down a generation plant? Wonder why?

Are the “experts” more credible than I? Yes. As stated above, I have no credentials. Is there money to be made buy selling stories of calamities that drum up fear in people? Yes. Would our government fund research that shows our grid is in danger then use said research as a reason to establish regulating authority over the nations electric grid? Lol, we all know the answer.

If the gov wants to help in an emergency, do what they’re doing now, provide funds, waive hours of service laws, and let the power companies handle their systems.

I’ll read the other thread as time allows. Lots of family gatherings going on for the Christmas holiday.

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AWESOME response & much appreciated. i WANT you to be the right one on this, no doubt.
Merry Christmas to you & yours!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jsp10477

Natural disasters could pose a greater threat than EMP due to actually destroying lines and equipment. Even so, natural disasters are small relative to the size of the country. I don’t see a nation wide wildfire, hurricane, earthquake, tornado, or ice storm. The Yellowstone caldera would be a different beast though.

So let’s see, hackers have broken into financial institutes, intel agencies, political parties, etc but no one has shut down a generation plant? Wonder why?

Are the “experts” more credible than I? Yes. As stated above, I have no credentials. Is there money to be made buy selling stories of calamities that drum up fear in people? Yes. Would our government fund research that shows our grid is in danger then use said research as a reason to establish regulating authority over the nations electric grid? Lol, we all know the answer.

If the gov wants to help in an emergency, do what they’re doing now, provide funds, waive hours of service laws, and let the power companies handle their systems.

---

Good post. It is hard to take anyone seriously that quotes One Second After or Die Hard as their design basis threat.

Somebody just detonated a nuclear device against the US... and you’re trying to remember if your rusty POS in the driveway is pre electronic fuel injection. If your car electronics are fried, then you are much more likely to die in the blast, fireball or resulting radiation poisoning. The bad guys are just going to nuke D.C., Manhattan or maybe the LA basin, as the U.S. is going to retaliate in a weapons free manner (have you read Raven Rock? That is real, not a work of fiction).

Like everything else, follow the money (as noted). I do not begrudge anyone writing a successful novel nor trying to sell their snake oil EMP solutions, but a dose of sense is needed. The U.S. electrical grid survives millions of electrical strikes from lightning every year, which is exactly the protection scheme that caused the minor power outage in the STARFISH PRIME detonation (read the Sandia weapons lab report)... EMP physics are basically lighting (I.e., lots of electrons) and in many ways less potent.

The grid also handles polar radiation/ space weather events on a regular basis (do you subscribe to the Weather Service’s space weather alerts?). The threat is well documented, the mitigation is well documented but what we haven’t had is an actual event to validate. I hope we never do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HardToHandle

Good post. It is hard to take anyone seriously that quotes One Second After or Die Hard as their design basis threat.

Somebody just detonated a nuclear device against the US... and you’re trying to remember if your rusty POS in the driveway is pre electronic fuel injection. If your car electronics are fried, then you are much more likely to die in the blast, fireball or resulting radiation poisoning. The bad guys are just going to nuke D.C., Manhattan or maybe the LA basin, as the U.S. is going to retaliate in a weapons free manner (have you read Raven Rock? That is real, not a work of fiction).

Like everything else, follow the money (as noted). I do not begrudge anyone writing a successful novel nor trying to sell their snake oil EMP solutions, but a dose of sense is needed. The U.S. electrical grid survives millions of electrical strikes from lightning every year, which is exactly the protection scheme that caused the minor power outage in the STARFISH PRIME detonation (read the Sandia weapons lab report)... EMP physics are basically lighting (I.e., lots of electrons) and in many ways less potent.

The grid also handles polar radiation/ space weather events on a regular basis (do you subscribe to the Weather Service’s space weather alerts?). The threat is well documented, the mitigation is well documented but what we haven’t had is an actual event to validate. I hope we never do.

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A little info on the One Second After book..the author is a leading expert in the EMP, well established, well respected. I have personally heard him say, that OSA is "fiction that hasnt come true yet". He researched United State Government records and the Gov's own research papers hired out to places like the Rand Corp. {or is is Rand Inst?} and other think tanks as to what would happen during a man made EMP attack, as to how many would die in the first 6 months, then later. Even in "layers" so to speak..like 1st would be people on life support..nursing home residents, then your addicts..the weak, city residents who atarve or were murdered, ect, ect. Then he took his knowledge of what happens to actual equipment in an EMP, and wrote a book, using his own home town of Black MTN, NC, as a backdrop.
Almost all the events in the book come from actual stats, figures, and calculations from many, many sources. It is NOT "just another" sci-fi book.
A lot of people dont know this about that book, which is why it is all the more terrifying.
As for the Die Hard quip..I myself never mentioned a thing about it, maybe someone else did. THAT, Id put no stock in either.
But, hey..believe/think what you want if it makes you sleep better. Myself, to deny that man made EMP isnt a real threat..when just in the past month alone Ive seen at least 6 new articles talking about the gov. itself worrying bout it, is suicidal. Some people wont believe anything, unless/until it actually happens to them, personally. Nothing off me...but point of my posts is to provide info to people that do wish to research the topic & find out info for themselves.
Merry Christmas!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sabre675

Oh contraire mon frere... Especially if it is in line with a false flag in regards to a bigger issue... much on this if you scratch the surface in regards to the deep state and economic collapse. Hard to keep a lid on or complete bullshit...Improbable, especially from an outside source imho, but viable domestically for a toe into marshal law for a mass civil unrest protocol at their choosing...but you'd have to go into tinfoil hatish rabbit hole if you want to get the synopsis...

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Oh my God! This thread instantly went down that rabbit hole.

Six months for a grid down situation is ridiculous:

For a cyber failure, the grid would be back up inside 48 hrs (although it might be down again in another 24; lather, rinse and repeat).

For a mechanical failure, a grid down situation will actually be local, although a brief cascade failure could give us a few hours of widespread blackout. How long it takes to repair a mechanical failure depends on the extent and the cause, but we are talking about days or weeks, not months.

For a true EMP, again the failure will be local -- the ONLY portable source of an EMP is a nuclear device. The truck mounted "EMP Generators" that are so popular in movies are strictly an invention of Hollywood. If someone sets off a nuclear bomb, the EMP will be the least of the concerns in the area.

The one potential cause of a massive long-term grid-down condition would be an enormous Coronal Mass Ejection (a giant "Solar Flare"). The last time a massive CME intersected the earth was in 1859 (the Carrington Event). When it happens again (yes, I said "when" not "if") depending on the level of the CME encountering the earth we could be looking at a worldwide grid down condition that would be essentially non-repairable. T-E-O-T-W-A-W-K-I !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inkslinger

Winter would certainly be a very bad time to lose electricity for an extended period of time.

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If I lost power for 6 months I would pray it was winter.

The country NEEDS something like this to happen.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eurodriver

If I lost power for 6 months I would pray it was winter.

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Yea, it kinda depends on where you live! No AC in Phoenix is a bigger deal in July than it is in January.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Esq.

Doesn't really matter WHO takes it down in terms of the effect- which is what the report is about- what people need to expect if it DOES go down.

---

Bingo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jsp10477

I’ll preface this post with the fact that I am not a college educated electrical engineer. I base my opinion on experience from years as an electrical contractor for one of the largest energy companies in the southeast. I’ve worked overhead and underground primary distribution, overhead and underground secondary services, metering, etc. My opinions are mine and I do not in any way speak for the company that employs me or any of the companies we have contracts with.

EMP’s fry delicate circuitry since it cannot bleed off surges. Consumer products, phones, lap tops, radios, TV sets, home medical devices and appliances will be what is most affected. Like I stated earlier, as long as copper and aluminum conduct electricity, distribution and transmission conductors wouldn’t need replaced.

https://www.bluestemelectric.com/sit...20a%20Pole.jpg

Note that there are arrestors to bleed off surges. Everything is tied back to main line neutrals and earth grounds.

Here’s a quick look at substation arrestors.
https://youtu.be/DW3pEv--5w8

These types of protections are integrated all throughout our grid.

Transformers are sealed metal housings that are directly tied to earth grounds and system neutrals. The windings inside are insulated from the housing/tank and submerged in non conductive oil. This is the case for overhead, underground, network, and substation transformers.

Direct physical attacks can shut down an entire substation or transmission circuit. The thing is, power companies guard their stations when terror alerts are elevated. If one actually went down due to an attack, you can bet the rest will have an armed presence. Transmission right of ways are maintained and could be patrolled. Corporate security isn’t just for escorting terminated employees off the premises. Why is the DOE an armed gov agency? It isn’t just for competing in sniper comps. Back on track, so when a station or circuit is damaged, it’s repaired and switched back into service.

Natural disasters could pose a greater threat than EMP due to actually destroying lines and equipment. Even so, natural disasters are small relative to the size of the country. I don’t see a nation wide wildfire, hurricane, earthquake, tornado, or ice storm. The Yellowstone caldera would be a different beast though.

So let’s see, hackers have broken into financial institutes, intel agencies, political parties, etc but no one has shut down a generation plant? Wonder why?

Are the “experts” more credible than I? Yes. As stated above, I have no credentials. Is there money to be made buy selling stories of calamities that drum up fear in people? Yes. Would our government fund research that shows our grid is in danger then use said research as a reason to establish regulating authority over the nations electric grid? Lol, we all know the answer.

If the gov wants to help in an emergency, do what they’re doing now, provide funds, waive hours of service laws, and let the power companies handle their systems.

I’ll read the other thread as time allows. Lots of family gatherings going on for the Christmas holiday.

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Thank you!

I always love seeing these "the lights are off for 5 decade threads". I'm glad someone here explains things in a non panic stricken response. I would worry more about Yellowstone going off than a country wide blackout. Or even a local blackout for any length of time. And I live within 150 miles of Yellowstone.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n4aof

Oh my God! This thread instantly went down that rabbit hole.

Six months for a grid down situation is ridiculous:

For a cyber failure, the grid would be back up inside 48 hrs (although it might be down again in another 24; lather, rinse and repeat).

For a mechanical failure, a grid down situation will actually be local, although a brief cascade failure could give us a few hours of widespread blackout. How long it takes to repair a mechanical failure depends on the extent and the cause, but we are talking about days or weeks, not months.

For a true EMP, again the failure will be local -- the ONLY portable source of an EMP is a nuclear device. The truck mounted "EMP Generators" that are so popular in movies are strictly an invention of Hollywood. If someone sets off a nuclear bomb, the EMP will be the least of the concerns in the area.

The one potential cause of a massive long-term grid-down condition would be an enormous Coronal Mass Ejection (a giant "Solar Flare"). The last time a massive CME intersected the earth was in 1859 (the Carrington Event). When it happens again (yes, I said "when" not "if") depending on the level of the CME encountering the earth we could be looking at a worldwide grid down condition that would be essentially non-repairable. T-E-O-T-W-A-W-K-I !

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Man has had the taste and knowledge of electricity for well over a decade now. We will never revert back to not having it permanently.

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Originally Posted by ubet

Thank you!

I always love seeing these "the lights are off for 5 decade threads". I'm glad someone here explains things in a non panic stricken response. I would worry more about Yellowstone going off than a country wide blackout. Or even a local blackout for any length of time. And I live within 150 miles of Yellowstone.

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Actually, both sides of the "five decades" debate are correct -- depending on the assumptions about the level of the solar storm causing the failure.

NO terrestrial event is going to cause a nationwide or global grid failure -- at least nothing short of a full-scale global thermonuclear war, in which case the grid failure won't be just due to the EMP effect.

Once you rule out the imaginary EMP Generators that exist only in Hollywood, and GTW, you are left with the one thing that could take down the global grid: a "Solar Storm" or Coronal Mass Ejection. The last major CME to hit the Earth was in September 1859 (usually referred to as the Carrington Event). Scientists believe that the solar storm of 1859 was one of, but not the largest such solar storms to ever hit the Earth. There was a similar level Coronal Mass Ejection in July 2012 but that one completely missed the Earth because the Earth's position in its orbit did not match the path of the solar storm.

Bottom line: the government warning to be ready for "six months" appears to be a median figure somewhere between the best case (a few seconds of power outage that happens frequently) and the worst case (TEOTWAWKI)


There is no way to predict when another such CME will occur or if it will or won't impact the Earth. A CME equal to the 1859 event striking the Earth would certainly take down the grid. How long the grid would stay down is subject to a lot of debate even among 'experts'. A small difference in the amount of energy released and/or a small difference in how solidly the solar flare hits the Earth could make a vast difference in the effect. If we assume a bit of luck on our part, we could be talking about nothing much worse than blowing every single fuse on every power line (you know, those same fuses that blow whenever a squirrel blows itself to hell by crossing one) as well as every solid state electronic device plugged in to an electrical outlet. No big deal beyond the fact that no utility company has enough replacement fuses and the companies that make the fuses wouldn't be able to make more until after the power was restored (Catch 22).

Few will bother to heed the (subtle) warning. “Conspiracy”.

The outcome will be justice in some dark, dank way...


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Originally Posted by markm

People would go NUTS if they were unable to drool on their cell phones for one day... let alone weeks/months.

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More range time.

Fuses cost a few dollars, take a couple minutes to replace, and are kept in stock at store rooms by the hundreds if not thousands.

People would be better off worrying about their personal health than any 6 month grid failure.

ETA: If I’m wrong, when the lights come back on, I’ll admit it. Lol

https://youtu.be/R5lQdJR4y1g

I know this warrants the government taking control of the entire nations power grid.

There have been multiple attacks on the grid. Costly but quickly repaired.

Here you go. https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.re...0M729K20140310


This is the best part of the article:
But in Washington, politicians must be seen to do something. So FERC has ordered NERC to produce yet another set of paperwork.

In its order, FERC acknowledged "the number of facilities identified as critical will be relatively small". Many substations will not be deemed critical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ubet

Man has had the taste and knowledge of electricity for well over a decade now. We will never revert back to not having it permanently.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

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Originally Posted by Eurodriver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

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Thanks, meant a century. Insert face palm.

In my defense, we have had electricity for well over a decade though. Lol

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