Blood type patches, TCCC, and trauma care

For the past couple days I have been hosting an ODA 18D from third group at work for some collaborative trauma 'stuff'. We have had some great discussion and there are few points from those convo's I want to share:

1. Blood type patches. Yeah, don't wear them. Cool guy factor +10, but really no one pays attention. Most team medics have that info on hand; if the team medic goes down, it's elsewhere. If you are wearing your dog tags, the info is there. If you are civilian, you are getting O neg until you are typed and crossed. If a cool unit guy has a BT patch, it's because it's part of their protocol.

2. TCCC. Since NAEMT has proclaimed itself king of civilian pre-hospital/out-of-hospital trauma care, these courses have popped up everywhere. They are a dime a dozen. There is no 'real' cert. Because of this, like shooting and tactics instructors, make sure you vet your instructors. Larry Vickers is a different animal than Billy Bubba who likes shooting his tricked out AR and learned because he watched the YouTube.

3. Trauma care. If this is your thing, watch for some interesting developments coming out in point-of-care trauma assessment and treatment. Nothing that civilians will utilize but interesting none the less. These things usually start at the SOF level and once vetted tricked down to everyone.

Good info

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Originally Posted by chuckman

If you are wearing your dog tags, the info is there.

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Additionally, blood types on dog tags are somewhat commonly incorrect.

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Originally Posted by 1168

Additionally, blood types on dog tags are somewhat commonly incorrect.

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Sometimes. In the deployment work-up cycle we'd type everyone to make sure and issue new tags if we needed to (at the time we'd catch up on vax, HIV, etc.). At the end of the day though everyone gets O- until they get to a Role/Echelon 2 where'd there be time to type and cross.

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Originally Posted by 1168

Additionally, blood types on dog tags are somewhat commonly incorrect.

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That is on the grunt. My tags were correct and I was positive they were correct. My type is so rare I'm probably dead regardless. Good thing I haven't needed any to date.

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Originally Posted by HKGuns

That is on the grunt. My tags were correct and I was positive they were correct. My type is so rare I'm probably dead regardless. Good thing I haven't needed any to date.

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Interestingly, medical can be charged with UCMJ violations if they give someone wrong blood based on the dog tag. If you are the ordering provider they can yank your license. In the civvy world you can be sued for malpractice.

Curious as to what type you are?

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Originally Posted by chuckman

Interestingly, medical can be charged with UCMJ violations if they give someone wrong blood based on the dog tag. If you are the ordering provider they can yank your license. In the civvy world you can be sued for malpractice.

Curious as to what type you are?

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Not being in medicine, that is news to me. Interesting.

B-Neg

ETA: Kind of interesting how many "regular" folk don't have a clue what blood type they are.

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Originally Posted by HKGuns

Not being in medicine, that is news to me. Interesting.

B-Neg

ETA: Kind of interesting how many "regular" folk don't have a clue what blood type they are.

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Damn. Yeah, 2% of the pop is B-.

Most people don't get typed unless they need it for something. Young guys, sometimes that's joining the military.

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Originally Posted by HKGuns

That is on the grunt.

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Not really. Dude gets told what he gets told, and expects it to be correct, then never thinks about it again, because he’s definitely never getting shot. And you don’t really walk into sick call with a complaint of “I just want to know”.

As for typing everyone again just to confirm, not too long ago that was not commonly done. I don’t really understand why not; don’t shoot the messenger. This includes apical SOF.

On another continent last year, I asked a conventional dude about his walking blood bank program. They had sent samples for everyone to get confirmed, but the samples got damaged in transport, so he was only able to get a partial list made. We worked on some stuff to mitigate that, but it happens.

Bottom line is, no one is getting (non-universal donor) blood based on ID tags. That’s not an accepted source of confirmation.

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Originally Posted by 1168

Not really. Dude gets told what he gets told, and expects it to be correct, then never thinks about it again, because he’s definitely never getting shot. And you don’t really walk into sick call with a complaint of “I just want to know”.

As for typing everyone again just to confirm, not too long ago that was not commonly done. I don’t really understand why not; don’t shoot the messenger. This includes apical SOF.

On another continent last year, I asked a conventional dude about his walking blood bank program. They had sent samples for everyone to get confirmed, but the samples got damaged in transport, so he was only able to get a partial list made. We worked on some stuff to mitigate that, but it happens.

Bottom line is, no one is getting (non-universal donor) blood based on ID tags. That’s not an accepted source of confirmation.

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I have been out of the service for a minute, but when did it become policy to not type everyone at boot? Or am I misreading (very possible)? That used to be the practice; EVERYONE (in the Navy and Marines at least, can't speak to the Army and AF) got typed in boot with dog tags reflecting. And we did at batt level in the deployment work-ups. If someone's tag was wrong (rare, but it's the military), we'd issue new tags, and always issued new red allergy tags. No one gets blood based on tags, everyone gets O- until role/echelon 2. But we did use the info on the tag for forward a "hold up" if the person was something like AB or B-.

Currently SF is typing for their walking blood bank (WBB). I was working week before last with some folks from 3rd group with this program. The deltas have excel with the types on their ODAs, and the info is distributed in several areas so there's always a back up. They are getting type-specific blood. This is going all-SOCOM; the idea is it will go army wide in some protocol (don't know if type-specific or generic O-) like TCCC did.

WBB is an interesting concept. I may be presenting at a conference in the fall on it if I can get my shit together and submit in time.

You’re misunderstanding me (my fault, of course). Yes, Army dudes get typed in the beginning (MEPS, I think), and tags issued. Always have in the modern era, as far as I know. They just haven’t historically gotten re-typed later on unless there was a medical reason. So there could be undiscovered errors on ID tags, and by proxy, patches. At one time, I knew the percentage of errors, and I don’t remember it now, but I wouldn’t have called it “rare”. It surprised the shit out of me when I learned it. I’d have to imagine it improved after whoever it was studied the problem. I would hope.

Walking blood banks will likely improve this for conventional forces, going forward. The ball has already been set in motion. At least one 68w(medic) recert course has been teaching it.

In SOF, WBBs are pretty much a mature and fleshed out SOP at this point.

Presenting it at a conference is pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by chuckman

I have been out of the service for a minute, but when did it become policy to not type everyone at boot? Or am I misreading (very possible)? That used to be the practice; EVERYONE (in the Navy and Marines at least, can't speak to the Army and AF) got typed in boot with dog tags reflecting. And we did at batt level in the deployment work-ups. If someone's tag was wrong (rare, but it's the military), we'd issue new tags, and always issued new red allergy tags. No one gets blood based on tags, everyone gets O- until role/echelon 2. But we did use the info on the tag for forward a "hold up" if the person was something like AB or B-.

Currently SF is typing for their walking blood bank (WBB). I was working week before last with some folks from 3rd group with this program. The deltas have excel with the types on their ODAs, and the info is distributed in several areas so there's always a back up. They are getting type-specific blood. This is going all-SOCOM; the idea is it will go army wide in some protocol (don't know if type-specific or generic O-) like TCCC did.

WBB is an interesting concept. I may be presenting at a conference in the fall on it if I can get my shit together and submit in time.

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From 1999:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10578589/

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Originally Posted by 1168

You’re misunderstanding me (my fault, of course). Yes, Army dudes get typed in the beginning (MEPS, I think), and tags issued. Always have in the modern era, as far as I know. They just haven’t historically gotten re-typed later on unless there was a medical reason. So there could be undiscovered errors on ID tags, and by proxy, patches. At one time, I knew the percentage of errors, and I don’t remember it now, but I wouldn’t have called it “rare”. It surprised the shit out of me when I learned it. I’d have to imagine it improved after whoever it was studied the problem. I would hope.

Walking blood banks will likely improve this for conventional forces, going forward. The ball has already been set in motion. At least one 68w(medic) recert course has been teaching it.

In SOF, WBBs are pretty much a mature and fleshed out SOP at this point.

Presenting it at a conference is pretty cool.

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Per my wife, any issues in communications are my fault, and mine alone, so I am OK in owning misunderstanding ;)

The original action at Ranger Batt that lead to WBB is still classified, but I was at a meeting in which it was discussed. Holy shit. The Ranger medic is teaching at Bragg, I am trying to connect with him.

One of the things we talked about a couple weeks ago when 3rd group guys were up was streamlining and uniformity of the process. I got from them there are still units and teams that have somewhat differing protocols. Next week I have a meeting with the chief doc at MARSOC, I hope to discuss this as well. Those processes will, of course, tighten as the program moves forward.

If you have any WBB info to share I would be delighted to have.

Chuckman, I’ll shoot you a text next week or this weekend. I’ll be hanging out with some nerds that can help you more.