Pistol caliber carbines are winning my soul - and they should win yours too

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05-24-20, 11:52
Eurodriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman8

That sounds really good in theory but are you really going to sling up a backpack everywhere you go just to carry something for an engagement that you have about a .000001% chance to be in?

If so, then rock on...For me, they are in the same category as a truck gun where guys think they’ll run out to the parking lot to re-engage an active shooter.

I’m not saying it can’t fill a niche roll or aren’t a fun platform, especially suppressed. But I don’t see it replacing an edc handgun (mine carries 15+1 rds with a 17rd reload btw) on a daily basis.

You have kids? A wife? Diaper bags go everywhere and an APC9k with a collapsible stock and T1 fits easily inside a Never Full.

It doesn’t replace the EDC handgun. It supplements it.

There are too many people (not you) who immediately think “AGHHH HE SAID PCC. NERD!”

Nah

A PCC doesn’t replace anything. A PCC isn’t deadlier than a 5.56. A PCC isn’t going to take precedence over a handgun on your body.

It’s just another tool in the toolbox.

As far as shooting better with a handgun than a rifle - that’s extremely uncommon. I can go 10/10 on an IPSC with an APC9k at 100 yards in ten seconds. I can’t guarantee that level of performance even from a full size DA/SA handgun.
05-24-20, 13:08
PracticalRifleman

Pistol caliber carbines are winning my soul - and they should win yours too

I’ve never been a fan of PCCs or “truck guns”. But I recently purchased my second CZ Scorpion. It’s a micro with a brace. It seems to have addressed the issues I had with my first one; terrible quad rail, wobbly brace, too long of a barrel, etc. With the addition of Magpul accessories, it’s icing on the cake.

So far I’m loving it. I threw a cheap red dot on it and it’s accurate, reliable, and easy to shoot. It fits easily into a diaper bag to give more capability than an EDC pistol.

One thing that should be on your radar with PCCs, some of the long barrels may provide too much velocity which extends outside the ammunition’s velocity ceiling. With the micro style, barrels are short enough to keep it in the desired velocity window.

I agree with the OP: the PCC can have a useful role to compliment an EDC pistol.

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05-24-20, 13:14
Ironman8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eurodriver

You have kids? A wife? Diaper bags go everywhere and an APC9k with a collapsible stock and T1 fits easily inside a Never Full.

It doesn’t replace the EDC handgun. It supplements it.

There are too many people (not you) who immediately think “AGHHH HE SAID PCC. NERD!”

Nah

A PCC doesn’t replace anything. A PCC isn’t deadlier than a 5.56. A PCC isn’t going to take precedence over a handgun on your body.

It’s just another tool in the toolbox.

As far as shooting better with a handgun than a rifle - that’s extremely uncommon. I can go 10/10 on an IPSC with an APC9k at 100 yards in ten seconds. I can’t guarantee that level of performance even from a full size DA/SA handgun.

I understand what you're saying and agree that it should supplement instead of replace the EDC handgun...since you're not deploying the weapon quickly and especially not if the threat is right in front of you.

And yes, it definitely will fit in a diaper bag better than a 10.5-11.5" AR (broken down or folded)...but why not just carry a slightly larger bag? For example, my broken down 11.5" will fit into my Vertx Gammut Plus bag...which looks like any other normal backpack (not tacticool). And there's plenty of other "grey man" options that would work just as well as the Vertx.

BUT...If I am carrying an off-body long gun in a bag, then that means I have some reason to believe that my normal threat level is elevated, in which case, I'd probably opt for my 11.5" in a slightly larger bag (and let that serve as a diaper bag as well, or let the wife carry the diaper bag and I carry the concealed rifle......although I'd probably leave the wife and kids at home if I had to go into an environment like that anyway, but that's besides the point).

I guess what I'm getting at is that carrying a concealed long gun is a fairly niche application as it is here in the US as a civilian, and getting to the point where I have to use a PCC for the smaller form factor, brings that niche application down even smaller.

That's just my thought process based on my threat evaluation matrix and I'm not saying you're wrong for opting for a PCC. And I'm not saying I won't ever own one (that B&T is pretty damn cool).
05-24-20, 13:20
Arik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman8

That sounds really good in theory but are you really going to sling up a backpack everywhere you go just to carry something for an engagement that you have about a .000001% chance to be in?

If so, then rock on...For me, they are in the same category as a truck gun where guys think they’ll run out to the parking lot to re-engage an active shooter.

I’m not saying it can’t fill a niche roll or aren’t a fun platform, especially suppressed. But I don’t see it replacing an edc handgun (mine carries 15+1 rds with a 17rd reload btw) on a daily basis.

Doesn't have to be an edc thing. I probably wouldn't but when this Corona shit kicked off and everyone was a little uneasy I wouldn't mind having something more than a Glock or worse, some kind of a pocket gun. Just in case I ran into a Rodney King riot. But then you have to know the laws of your state. I'm not too confident with the laws of driving around with a rifle in the trunk, in Pa, and I couldn't take it out and bring it with me so that in the very least it doesn't get stolen. But a handgun in a backpack is fine, all I need is a conceal carry permit
05-24-20, 13:20
The_War_Wagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eurodriver

A 9mm PCC isn’t a replacement to an AR. It fills a role in between a handgun you conceal on your body and when you can bring a real rifle someplace.

I've yet to see one that's small enough to carry under anything less concealing than a trenchcoat. And my Bren 805 can do that.
05-24-20, 15:45
C-grunt

I think some of you guys haven't messed around with the modern K guns. An APC-K or shorty Scorpion are significantly smaller than a 10 inch AR.
05-24-20, 15:55
jpmuscle

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05-24-20, 17:02
Eurodriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-grunt

I think some of you guys haven't messed around with the modern K guns. An APC-K or shorty Scorpion are significantly smaller than a 10 inch AR.

No kidding.

Homeboy talking about a Bren 805 lol. Like Ok, Boomer.
05-24-20, 17:07
MegademiC

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-grunt

I think some of you guys haven't messed around with the modern K guns. An APC-K or shorty Scorpion are significantly smaller than a 10 inch AR.

These, or a tp9 or m11, I could see a niche for. I have yet to find a need for mine(m11) though.
The modern guns are a bit lighter. 4lb 12oz vs 3lb 2oz
05-24-20, 17:24
Eurodriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegademiC

These, or a tp9 or m11, I could see a niche for. I have yet to find a need for mine(m11) though.
The modern guns are a bit lighter. 4lb 12oz vs 3lb 2oz

One thing a lot of people don’t consider is the width. An AR with a folding stock is like what? 6” wide?

An APC9k with a collapsible stock is only a hair over 2

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