I search for this and couldn't find anything really.
I've been using Eotechs for some time with the 1moa dot. Thinking about trying aimpoint but notice those are 2moa will this throw me off at all?
Preference?
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I search for this and couldn't find anything really.
I've been using Eotechs for some time with the 1moa dot. Thinking about trying aimpoint but notice those are 2moa will this throw me off at all?
Preference?
I pick up a 2 moa dot much faster for close in shooting, but give up precision at longer distances. I have still shot foxes at 200 yds with a 2 moa dot, so it doesn't hurt much.
It all boils down to what your primary use. If its close in combat/defense I would far prefer the larger dot.
I can't find a source, but eotechs have a center dot smaller than 1 moa, but it seems like 1.5 moa because of the bloom. If you magnify an eotech, the dot will still be small (maybe less than 1 moa) while an aimpoint that's 2 moa at 1x remains 2 moa at 3x.
you should be fine, like anything else may take some getting used to but dot size (200m and in) should not be much of an issue.
Can anyone else back up the eotech claim? This is the first of me hearing it. I would think if I used a magnifier a 2 moa would be 6 moa. I've never used one but just thinking.. Which is prolly wrong
This is red00shulous. A 2 MOA read dot is a little less than half the width of an M4 front sight when sitting on the gun.
Theoretically you have a more precise aiming point than the IRONs. And the Irons are pretty damned good to begin with.
I prefer a larger "dot" as well at close range. So I use a 65moa circle rather than a 2moa dot. Its just plain faster for ME. If Im 20-50 yards out, I ignore the 65moa circle and use the 1moa dot. 50-100 yards, depending on how precise my shot needs to be, I may flip up my 3X magnifier. I rarely shoot past 100 yards without 3X magnification. A rds + magnifier on flip mount seems to be a great general purpose setup. I can quickly engage targets up close and make accurate shots at distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDoug
Thanks guys, I have zero knowledge on the subject other than having my 512. Looking to take some carbine courses and they are saying we will shoot up to 300 yards. I don't have the knowledge or the experience like some of you do. Just didn't know how the going from a 1moa with a 65moa circle would be different than using a 2moa dot only. I like the eotechs but seems like aimpoints are better quality.
To my eyes, the Eotech has a cleaner looking dot. But the Aimpoint system does not eat batteries and is generally considered to be the more reliable system.
At 300, you are going to be holding at the top edge of a 10-12" steel target - or using holdover if you zero at 100. The substention of the Dot won't be the issue.
So either or I'll be fine then.
Dustin, what class are you taking...Boyette? If so he will get you all squared away on using your optic out to 300yds. Im assuming he will get you set up then run you through the Army Qual like he did with us. Your Eotech is plenty suitable. I qualified expert shooting an 11.5" AR with 4moa Aimpoint Micro so you should be more than okay with your Eotech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100
Thanks ED!Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo95
Just looking for something lighter than 512 lol
Yeah you need to ditch that 512 before it craps out on you anyways. Look at an Aimpoint or the new XPS Eotech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100
What model aimpoint should I look at? I like the 65 moa ring eotech has for CQB but I'm probably putting to much though in to thisQuote:
Originally Posted by wahoo95
We shoot out to 300 meters, or greater if available, on vital area sized targets (Tac strike steel targets).Quote:
Thanks guys, I have zero knowledge on the subject other than having my 512. Looking to take some carbine courses and they are saying we will shoot up to 300 yards. I don't have the knowledge or the experience like some of you do. Just didn't know how the going from a 1moa with a 65moa circle would be different than using a 2moa dot only. I like the eotechs but seems like aimpoints are better quality.
Most common optic: Aimpoint.
Zero distance: 100 meters.
Hit percentage: around 75% average.
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But what model? Do you guys use mag as well or just aimpoint only ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure2Stop
The entire image/background/reticule is magnified the same so there is no "relative" change with anything. So, with 3X magnfier, the MOA subtensions don't change, the target/background gets 3X bigger, and the FOV ghets smaller in turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100
I prefer the 2 MOA Aimpoints, but the 4 MOA versions are wholly usable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100
I do not see a crisp 2 MOA dot if the intensity is turned up enough to be usable/highly obvious in daylight. I see everything from a comma, to a streak, to a starburst, but I simply use the brightest portion of the center to aim with. It works well enough to get good hits.
Note: I have had repeated corneal injuries, which exacerbates my perceived distortion of the dot.
I do a little better with the EoTech dot, as in the dot looks cleaner, but it really doesn't matter in practical application unless I am shooting at something smaller than 4 MOA. To me, the tradeoff in battery life and overall robustness tips the scale in favor of the Aimpoints. I really prefer low powered variables, as the reticle is always crisp and clean, and I can swap rapidly from 1X to 4X.
Currently I am using a 2MOA T1, and it is ok. I have owned and used most of the Aimpoint and EoTech product lines, and here is what I find to be acceptable, in no particular order:
Aimpoint (preferably 2 MOA models):
M3/ML3 (probably the best value if buying used, can frequently be bought with a good QD mount essentially for free)
C3 (probably the best value RDS if buying new)
M4/M4S (probably the most robust and purpose-built RDS in existence)
T1/H1/R1 (probably the best form-factor RDS on the market)
EoTech:
EXPS 2 or 3 (depending on necessity of use with NODs), preferably with single dot and ring. Most robust and evolved models in the EoTech catalog)
Trijicon
RMR (I prefer the adjustable models. Least issue with reticle bloom of all projected reticle optics. Lacks long term data in comparison to Aimpoint or EoTech)
Leupold:
Prismatic DCD (nice for those of us with eye damage, but not the same as the others. Good optic, but few mount options, and takes some getting used to. Not compatible with inline magnifiers)
Most of our shooters do not use or need magnification to reach out to 300 as long as the targets are obvious to the naked eye.
The 2 MOA dot is great. 1 MOA dots have an inherent problem, namely that they are right on the edge of what the AVERAGE human eye can resolve. Some people can resolve them fine, others can't resolve a 4 MOA dot properly. Remember 1 MOA is just under 1" at 100m. Can you see a foam earplug at 100m? I cannot. This is why I prefer a 2 - 4 MOA dot. The 65 MOA ring or zombie reticle or whatever in those EOTECHs is a joke. Too busy of sight picture, with no benefits (bullet drop, etc.).
What do you use/how do you go from 1x 4x quickly? Use a magnifier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure2Stop
The best use of the 65 MOA ring I've seen is as a range estimation tool. 65 MOA = ~5'5" at 100 yds (or meters? i'm so confused)... which is about the average height of a man, give or take a few inches here or there. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltaDorce
So a person about the size, head to foot, of the ring is about 100 yds away, half the size (from the dot to the edge of the ring) is 200 yds away, etc. If you know the height of certain vehicles, you can use it to range vehicles too, as well as buildings (average story is ~12', which is 2 of the eotech rings stacked at 100m, give or take. So if a story is the size of your ring, then it's about 200m away, etc.)
It's also a little helpful in leading moving targets. And it makes target acquisition pretty quick in close ranges, but I've never seen a difference between it and an aimpoint.
Guessing he uses a 1-4x short dot type optic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100
I prefer a low powered variable for the optimal balance for full spectrum use, with a hefty edge in target identification over 1x optics, and a distinct edge over fixed 3-4x optics for close range work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100
For 0 to 200, the 1x optics work fine, and the addition of a magnifier makes target ID/discrimination easier. I don't really find that they extend the range of the optic so much as they increase observation capability, but at the loss of field of view. For clarity, I did own a magnifier in a flip to side mount, but found that a good 1-4x was better for my use.
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:suicide:Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltaDorce
You do realize that only ONE out of over 20 Eotech models use that bs zombie themed reticle right? And there are models out there with .223 ballistic reticles that work rather well in my experience... shot one today actually.
I didn't intend to change anyone's mind about EOTECHs, but IMHO the sight picture offered by most of their lineup is not useful to me (or anyone else I know). If anyone is actually ranging anything with a 65MOA ring, I would be very surprised. EOTECHs are probably one of the last things I would put on my rifle, at any price. Again, IMHO. Aimpoint and even Vortex have better offerings at better (and much better) pricing.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind either, I don't have any Eotechs anymore but to say that the reticle is not useful to anyone is going a bit far. there are still plenty in use by some very serious people...Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltaDorce
the 65MOA circle works extremely well at shorter range. at 25 yards, it brackets just 16.25" of the target. at 12.5 yds, it's about 8" and so on...
instead of the using the center dot, I just overlay the circle shoulder-to-shoulder and touching the bottom of the chin of a standard life-size figure target, and it give me perfect upper COM hits. it's very fast and that's the only thing I like about it. I still prefer Aimpoints on my guns intended for serious use.
one other aspect of the Eotech is the 1MOA dot. this works better with a magnifier than even the 2MOA dot of an Aimpoint. if I can find one of the newer 123 batt models with the BDC dots for cheap, I may pick one up one day just for this use. as is, the magnifier with Aimpoint is an inelegant solution...